Coronavirus 666: The Number of the Delta Variant (but in an entirely scientific context)

[Hurlshort]

6 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

Mother refuses to get COVID shot, so judge strips her of visitation rights.

I wish I had carte blanche to make stuff up and then impose it on people.

Like a moderator of some sort?

[Gfted1]

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means. Anywho:

Judge’s order requiring hospital to give COVID patient ivermectin called “unethical”.

[rjshae]

All part of a Republican plan to de-worm their base. They must know something we don't. 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, rjshae said:

All part of a Republican plan to de-worm their base. They must know something we don't. 

At some point, you'd think it would occur to them that they are helping to kill off the only people who will vote for them.

[Gromnir]

24 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

Like a moderator of some sort?

am thinking the mod in question is once again shooting past irony. the custody issue were most assured not an example o' "make stuff up" and imposing on people. best interest of the child is the guide for the judge in custody/visitation/whatever. show a judge were unreasonable in concluding an unvaccinated parent poses an increased health risk for a child? is gonna be tough to prove such with enough certainty to overturn the decision and ignoring legal aspects, is tough to argue such a position is common sense unwarranted. judge not have to be irrefutable correct but cannot be obvious wrong.

to criticize hurl given the mod's own mischaracterization is... amusing.

converse, a judge forcing a doctor to violate ethical demands o' the profession is rare. do no harm is a thing. doesn't matter that the patient is dying. ordinary, the law won't compel a doctor to provide medical care which is likely to cause harm even if the patient is dying. 'course in end o' life situations there has been conflicts 'tween judges and doctors. the judge is clear wrong on the law in this situation, but from a practical pov, it don't matter. is likely a doctor may be found who will administer the dewormer and will be up to the hospital and another judge to block administering o' the treatment. 

2 minutes ago, Achilles said:

At some point, you'd think it would occur to them that they are helping to kill off the only people who will vote for them.

trump were booed at a recent rally when he advocated getting vaccinated.

republicans no longer have control o' this. six years ago antivaxx were embraced almost exclusive by hippie moms, minority communities and a few ultra religious groups, but thanks to trump pushing fake news narrative, promoting distrust o' science and the equal curious injection o' faux libertarian (no compromise on guns and masks and anything they imagine is a Liberty Right) into the national republican platform o' grievance and fear, republicans now face the choice o' holding on tight and riding the tiger or getting mauled by the beast they created.

HA! Good Fun!

[rjshae]

57 minutes ago, Achilles said:

At some point, you'd think it would occur to them that they are helping to kill off the only people who will vote for them.

There you go trying to apply reason and logic again.

[Gromnir]

53 minutes ago, rjshae said:

There you go trying to apply reason and logic again.

yeah, reason is a dead ends on this. if you are buying horse dewormer from a feed store you is quite obvious afraid of covid-19. as between the horse jelly and a vaccine which has now been functional tested on many millions o' people with an extreme low incidence o' side effects, why would a reasonable person choose the horse jelly? is not reasonable. however, such choices may actual be described as logical and/or rational even if not reasonable. recognize that the chance o' death is known and acceptable when compared with the more likely negative impact o' being seen by your community as a traitor or weak. knowing choose possible death to avoid social stigma may be rational even if is unreasonable.

similar, the politicians who is active discouraging mitigation efforts and is willing to see corpses stacked like cordwood in temporary refrigerator truck morgues as the obvious and immediate cost o' such choices is being rational. if the votes they anticipated lose is greater from embracing sensible mitigation efforts than is the votes lost by embracing the death cult mantra, then the corpses is a rational choice if one accepts that retaining political power is the actual goal as 'posed to the interests o' the electorate in staying alive and/or healthy.

am thinking one o' the obstacles faced by those who is trying to combat hesitancy regarding vaccines and mitigation efforts is the belief that those resisting is irrational. how do you convince an irrational person to change their behaviour? wrong approach. these folks ain't actual irrational. if you understand what is genuine important to the people objecting to wearing masks and getting vaccinated, then solutions is no easier to reach, but is at least a start. assume fear of death or serious illness to self and loved ones should be a primary consideration is a mistake. the chance o' death is statistic not high and is far less certain than the stigma which will accompany being a traitor to peer group beliefs. the choice being made by many o' these folks is, as hard as it may be to believe, rational. there is a failure to recognize just how powerful is current level o' polarization and the peer group pressure being exerted.

fear o' possible death v. certainty o' shame.

course recognizing that these folks is not actual irrational hasn't provided Gromnir with any meaningful solutions, so...

regardless, as americans, am suspecting history is not gonna look kindly 'pon us and how we faced the greatest health threat o' the last century.

HA! Good Fun!

ps recall socrates willing chose death instead o' exile and the philosopher's choice were not political. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Gromnir
added ps

[Gromnir]

as an aside, am realizing is impossible to genuine convey how death and death by covid-19 is not same thing.

bob were unvaccinated and on saturday when he went to starbucks he were infected with covid-19 by phil. no surprise to anybody, phil were asymptomatic and not wearing a mask. thirty seconds later, when bob walked stepped out onto the sidewalk, BAM, he keeled over dead from the lethal respiratory disease.

...

is not the way it works. 

show video o somebody intubated or do interviews with survivors just ain't cutting it insofar as communicating the suffering and fear. am not certain how to make death by respiratory failure more real and intimate. spend time with people dying slowish o' covid-19, see nurses who themselves look hollowed out holding phones near the patient's ear so family unable to visit the icu may say goodbye, and then quibble 'bout percentages regarding efficacy o' masks or death rates? is still gonna be such folks, but number is gonna shrink considerable. 

[Zoraptor]

To be fair, ivermectin isn't just a livestock dewormer, it's also a registered human therapeutic in widespread use. Much like HCQ it's at least unlikely to cause much in the ways of adverse effects, except for not working as a covid treatment, and is an infinitely better suggestion for treatment than, say, sodium hypochlorite.

And to be even more fair, the stage at which you're likely to be self administering ivermectin is the stage at which you're unlikely to need to be on alternative medications that do work like dexamethasone (ie, on O2 or full on ventilator).

[Gromnir]

Just now, Zoraptor said:

To be fair, ivermectin isn't just a livestock dewormer, it's also a registered human therapeutic in widespread use.

didn't say it was. however, there is considerable numbers o' people in the US buying the stuff from feed stores and they obvious ain't in the icu when they get their john deere hat from a rack and a tube o' horse jelly. is not hard to find links on line where people is asking what is the proper dosage for their 165lb "horse." people is self administering way before the stage they would otherwise be getting dexamethasone. far too many people rejecting any mask or vaccine efforts is nevertheless quite obvious afraid o' covid. horse jelly, for their peer group, is a social acceptable alternative.

HA! Good Fun!

[rjshae]

The problem is that people are taking Ivermectin formulated for livestock use.

At least two hospitalized with potential ivermectin toxicity, the MSDH updates

Quote

 

According to the MSDH, the Mississippi Poison Control Center had received reports of people using ivermectin to treat or prevent COVID infection.

At least 70% of the reports were related to individuals ingesting livestock or animal formulations of the drug purchased at livestock supply centers.

 

 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, rjshae said:

The problem is that people are taking Ivermectin formulated for livestock use.

At least two hospitalized with potential ivermectin toxicity, the MSDH updates

 

FDA has officially asked the american public to stop doing this. Gromnir is neither making this up nor exaggerating.

[Zoraptor]

Nah, I mean, I certainly wouldn't advise taking ivermectin without having taken medical advise and anyone doing so should seriously re-evaluate their thoughts on the matter, but I did check beforehand and the advised dosage for humans is comparable to that for most other animals. eg I could go out to the shed and give myself a drench applicable for a 75kg sheep and it would be almost exactly the recommended dose for a 75kg human as a dewormer. It'd still be moronic to do so anyway, but all other things being equal taking an appropriate dose won't do you any harm and there are far more dangerous chemicals to self medicate with.

The problem is of course that people are dumb in multiple ways, and buy horse dewormer and give themselves a horse sized dose despite not being the size of André the Giant, and that will do you some harm. Or they buy topical ivermectin and... eat it. That isn't a problem with ivermectin though, that's a problem with taking a horse sized dose and not knowing that there's a difference between external and internal application.

Of course, if you;re the FDA or whoever you just say not to take animal products, and that's entirely justified. But there are certainly worse things people could be taking that would actually kill them.

[Guest]

Looks like "flatten the curve" is coming back again

[teknoman2]

Here's one way the media spread misinformation.

Article name: AstraZeneka employees to be vaccinated with competitor vaccines only

What the article actually says: AZ is making vaccination mandatory for employees but because the AZ vaccine is not yet FDA approved, the employees of AZ in USA will have to use one of the other vaccines that have approval.

Someone who reads just the title will assume that AZ don't trust their own vaccine.

[InsaneCommander]

‘Doomsday’ Covid variant detected in South Africa even worse than Delta strain.

Quote

A new “doomsday” Covid variant has been discovered, with health experts fearing it moves nearly “twice as fast” as the deadly Delta strain.

 

[teknoman2]

are we in "Plague inc."?

[Zoraptor]

1 hour ago, InsaneCommander said:

‘Doomsday’ Covid variant detected in South Africa even worse than Delta strain.

 

No greek letter designation and the WHO saying it isn't spreading significantly suggests that Murdoch could possibly be exaggerating somewhat. They do give greek letters to those that are simply variants of interest as opposed to proven problems (eg iota and lambda are currently variants of interest, theta and epsilon are no longer even that).

[ShadySands]

If you buy a fake vaccine card you should probably proofread it first

Woman Arrested Trying to Enter Hawaii With 'Maderna' Covid-19 Vaccine Card

Quote

A 24-year-old woman from Illinois was arrested on Sunday while trying to enter Hawaii with a fake covid-19 vaccination record card. How did authorities know it was fake? For starters, the counterfeit card said the woman had received the “Maderna” vaccine rather than the Moderna vaccine.

The woman, identified as Chloe Mrozak, was arrested at the Daniel K. Inouy International Airport on the island of Oahu, according to local TV station KITV. Mrozak faces a maximum sentence of a year in prison and is reportedly being held on $2,000 bail.

All visitors to Hawaii must self-quarantine for 10 days upon arrival, but that requirement is waived for people who’ve been fully vaccinated. 

The free vaccine seems like a better investment of time and money

[Gfted1]

I read that story earlier and something doesnt jibe. Theres absolutely no way to confirm or deny that a person has received the vaccine, and a simple typo could occur on any number of vaccination cards. She should have kept her mouth shut and they wouldnt even have a case.

[Hurlshort]

3 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

I read that story earlier and something doesnt jibe. Theres absolutely no way to confirm or deny that a person has received the vaccine, and a simple typo could occur on any number of vaccination cards. She should have kept her mouth shut and they wouldnt even have a case.

I am pretty sure these vaccine centers and agencies are keeping records on who they give shots to. It would be pretty easy for them to check and see if it was a simple typo or if there was no record of the person getting the shot. 

[Amentep]

They should be able to identify the Healthcare Professional or Clinic site that gave the shot and lot number of the shot(s) just from the card.

The healthcare professional/clinic should have their own records of who they gave the shot to, that should match the cards.

 

 

[teknoman2]

here, vaccine cards have a QR code that if scanned leads to a government site with all the relevant data that proves its real. if you want to make a fake you have to also make a fake site and a QR code and hope they don't double check

[Raithe]

 

[BruceVC]

8 hours ago, Raithe said:

 

There are lots of these types of videos and I generally dont watch them anymore because they so frustrating and really show us the same reality....groups of people in the US who dont want to accept the irrefutable truth of the pandemic and now have the virus

But this type of "anti-vaxxer " argument exists in many countries including SA and it is one of our greatest obstacles to achieving 65-70 % vaccination. Its not that we dont have the vaccines anymore so the old exaggerated " the wealthy countries are hoarding vaccines " is not the issue and never really was for us 

So I watched this video just to remind myself of the SA problem and its relevant