Help me decide a Wizard MC for solo (no BM)

[Manu22]

Hello people, I played a lot with the Bloodmage/Soulblade, but I want to try another wizard subclass. I know BM is the best, but I want to go with something different. 
My idea is to use the wizard for buff/debuff, and the another class for damage, but also has to add survivability in a solo run.

I am trying to decide between Illusionist and Enchanter. And my options for another class are Stalker, Rogue, Paladin, Cipher and maybe Chanter . I dont want a pure caster. And the other meles classes doesn’t add survivability.

If you could help me decide, thanks.

[Not So Clever Hound]

If you don't wanna go BM, then I would pick a vanilla Wizard over the other kits, especially if you solo. Losing schools of magic is too high a price to pay for 2PL.

From your list the 2 combos that come to mind are:

Paladin + Wizard = top survivability. You can raise your defenses very (very) high, regenerate HP, raise your spell damage with Eternal Flames. For Solo, optimal choice is probably as many have said before Steel Garrote for the life steal on weapon attacks vs. afflicted enemies. One note that might not be that useful without Bloodmage: you can reliably use Grimoire of Vaporous Wizardry without using the Rekvu's Fractured Casque trick if you pick Hands of Light and prolong the Courageous Effect with WoD. Then you can pick another useful hat like Acina's Tricorn which +ACC also applies to spells.

Assassin + Wizard = also very solid choice but if you like stealth playstyle. Nuke from stealth/invisibility. Or if you like hybrid you can try fun combos: e.g. gather enemies with Dazzling Light from Stealth, Terrify the pack with Enervating Terror, apply Vital Essence + Deleterious Alacrity + Zandethu's Draconic Fury and then bum-rush all those terrified enemies with devastating melee attacks while reapplying Enervating Terror / Repulsive Visage from the occasional Smoke Veil invisibility. Finish the stragglers with Precisely Piercing Burst or add a friend with Essential Phantom. Very fun!

EDIT: actually for both builds Grimoire of Vaporous Wizardy is probably very helpful to get more spells/encounter otherwise as Solo you will run out very fast if not Bloodmage. For Paladin as mentioned you can use Fractured Casque or Hands of Light at higher level. For Assassin it doesn't matter as you won't really be in harm's way.

Troubadour, Scion/Ascendant and Stalker could also be interesting multi but a step behind those two IMHO.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Haplok]

I second the suggestion for a vanilla wizard.

 

Not on your list, but a class that would add A LOT of survivability AND potential for resource regeneration would be the Tactician Fighter. At higher levels with Unbending and Wall of Draining he's virtually indestructible.

[Faraleth]

if no BM, then stay no subclass for solo. you lose too much.

I would go with one of pala, troubadour, cipher.

[Boeroer]

Not for MC but maybe still relevant:

Aloth, while not optimized stat-wise can get an (imo) awesome ability via his quest which is named "Adaptive". It lowers his grimoire switching time by 1 second which makes switching grimoires pretty fast. You can complete his quest quite early without any combat so you don't have to wait forever for this. It is kind of tricky to get the right dialogue options in oder to gain Adaptive and not the alternative ability Persistent (which is very lame in comparison imo).

I got this in my current playthrough with Aloth as SC Wizard. After I ot it I retrained to mostly passives and gave him the Fleshmender armor (+2 Quickslots for grimoires) because now he could switch grimoires so quickly that I don't need to learn any spell (I did learn a few anyway of course, but only when I had to). It makes him very versatile. Also Fleshmender  can give you +1 weapon slots which I used in combination with Arms Bearer so that he can have 4 weapon slots. In each slot there's a weapon set that boosts certain kinds of spells: Eye of Wael, Magran's Favor + Sun & Moon, Blightheart etc. 

I also thought about giving him the Giftbearer's Cloth and max history instad of Fleshmender (also +2 Quick slots) because the added non-deflection defenses would stack nicely with all the passives like Bear's Fortitude etc. - and he can buff his deflection via spells anyway. But the cape is used by sombody else in the party currently and I can't bring myself to retrain her, too (yet).

Since you can turn Aloth into a Spellblade or Battlemage this might fit your demands as well? Especially with multiclass Wizards it pays off to not invest in spells but passives and Rogue- oder Fighter actives - with Aloth's "quickswitching" grimoires even more so I think.  

Edit: eh sorry, this was for solo. I misread a sentence. Anyway - I will keep this here. Maybe it's something not everybody already knew.
One could also make the ability available via mod so that it's accessible for all wizards. Then it could be used for a main character Wizard, too. 

As for solo Wizard multiclass: the easiest with the best synergies for solo is Wizard/Paladin imo. I would also pick vanilla Wizard if Bloodmage isn't what you want. Paladin subclass doesn't matter that much but I liked Steel Garrote best.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Boeroer

[Manu22]

Thanks for the replies.
I liked the “assassin hybrid combo”

About the Steel Garrote and Tactician, I already used them with a Beguiler, that’s why I don’t want to use them. If I go with a paladin, my choice would be Goldpact.

Loremaster is a class that I want to try, but I dont want a pure caster for now.

 

 

[Faraleth]

5 hours ago, Boeroer said:

but passives and Rogue- oder Fighter actives

tell me you are german without telling me you are german, ja?

[Boeroer]

Haha, right. 

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, Manu22 said:

If I go with a paladin, my choice would be Goldpact.

 

 

Goldpact usually is on of my favorite Paladin subclasses since Gilded Enmity - combined with Sworn Rival - is so good. But it won't stack with Spirit Shield, Iron Skin or Llengrath's Safeguard. That's why I usually pick something else for an Arcane Knight. But I guess you could argue that you can then spare those spells and do Gilded Enmity instead. Which is true...

Steel Garrote is cool in combination with Draining Touch and shield (or club + modal) setup when going solo imo. Not only does Draining Touch's healing stack with the Steel Garrote's but also the attack itself causes weakened which unlocks the life drain right away. I find that setup to work really well in order to get the most out of your resources, especially when not playing as a Bloodmage. Draining Touch stays for the whole fight - so it only costs 1 spell use - and the combined life drain makes it so that you don't have to heal yourself that often with Zeal or Corrosive Siphon - at least in the pre-late game before you get Wall of Draining.

Aassassin/Wizard is also nice. Especially with Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure it's a lot of fun to play imo. 

[Haplok]

Just a word, if I may. Personally I wouldn't use a clear exploit like grimoire swap to keep a single-use spell permanently equipped and used as a "normal" weapon - and would hesitate to suggest it so often to others.

I wouldn't mind casting it and then summoning a phantom, who would have it equipped, though.

Of course, its a single player game and everyone can have the fun however they wish. But you're the most knowledgeable and helpful of all of us, Boeroer and it kinda saddens me when I see you recommend a clear mechanical glitch as a default playstyle to new players, who I'd prefer to have experienced a "normal" game and not an exploit-party.

I like OP combos possibly as much as you do. But I do try to stay away from glitches, such as blocking spells by grimoire swaps, unequipping/re-equipping items to stack their benefits (and maybe make them permanent), or also from stacking multiple one off / rest-type bonuses.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Haplok

[Boeroer]

I assume everybody who posts here is old and sane enough to make their own decisions when it comes to playing the game.

I'm describing what I like and what works well for me. I would never force my recommendations onto anybody though. 

Your distinction between glitch and proper or "normal" mechanics is subjective and it's a bit silly to try and force that distinction onto other forum readers, and I'll explain why.

What really matters for players is whether an action improves their experience with the game - or not. A small glitch may not break the game but even increase the joy of playing it - while an intended mechanic can be used in ways where it utterly breaks the game balance, takes away all challenge and kills the joy. Yet you advocate to skip the first but use the latter (more in that below). 

What's a "normal" game? Playing solo on PotD is very far from a normal Deadfire game to begin with. Most if not all solo PotD players will take advantage of certain mechanics that grant them more power, intended or unintended ones. The decision to not play a normal game was already made when starting a solo PotD run.

Keeping both points in mind I'll give you an example that shows how your approach suffers from hypocrisy:

Using Draining Touch with grimoire swapping (so it doesn't get removed after a successful hit) as a solo character on PotD hasn't a game breaking impact. It's good no doubt - but it's not even the best one handed weapon you can get - AND you have to spend a spell use for it + invest grimoire switching time. In fact this action has way less impact than "non-glitched" stuff like Scordeo's Edge + Blade Cascade + WoD (proper mechanics), Grave Calling + Chilling Grave + vessel summons (proper mechanics) or Engoliero do Espirs + Blade Feast + spell kills (proper mechanics...?).

With Engoliero do Espirs we could argue that the proc of Blade Feast wasn't even meant to occur on any kill but just on weapon kills. I'd say that's a glitch. You see that not even the clear distinction is problematic when it comes to having fun with the gane in itself - but even the "official" lines between glitchy and normal behavior are blurry. You'll be okay with a Phantom wearing Draining Touch (which won't disappear)... but this is the same underlying effect. It's a glitch. 

Now, while you condemn the use of Draining Touch + grimoire swapping you like to play and recommend stuff like Assassin/Bloodmage who uses Deltro's Cage, casts Chain Lightning on himself and then prolongs that effect with Wall of Draining while triggering Blade Feast from spell-kills (which will be super potent with the shocking lash of the Helmet and then procs itself over an over). At least iirc that was you, right? You recommended that a lot in the past - although it breaks the game balance a lot more than using Draining Touch does. 

I personally consider this a gamebreaking cheesy af combination that takes away fun - but you didn't hear me saying that your recommendation saddens me? Did I judge you in any form for doing this although I personally don't like it? No...

This shows that your personal distinction between glitch and "normal" or "pure" or "clean" is very subjective.

I thought this discussion ended somewhat fruitfully after your debate with @Raven Darkholmeover "Strand of Favor cheese" a few months back - but I guess it did not.

What is enjoyable is in the eye of the Beholder (or in this case: player). Whatever tricks and tipps forum members will share: it's the player's choice to decide if they might like that or not. A "purist" approach might fit your needs - but that doesn't have to be the case for everybody.

Being a self declared purist doesn't give anybody the right to frown upon or look down on players who recommend and/or play whatever you don't consider to be "normal".

There is no moral high ground playing a single player computer game. 

The artificial and subjective separation between bad and good ways to play, between glitch, cheese and normal is hypocritical. There is no Evangelion "How thou must have fun with Deadfire". It's not a religion where we as forum high priests have to divine the will of our Obsidian dev gods - to tell other players how the holy game has to be played.

You can submit to that perceived authority no problem, I won't criticize you or be sad about it or whatever. If this approach gives you the most joy and makes you happy, I'm happy.

Just don't try to judge how I (or we as a group) try to share what I like or don't like about the game. Or to recommend what I found enjoyable.   

I try to make it very clear in every post where I share "special mechanics" that what I recommend is just my opinion - and I try to explain why I think it might be fun.

If somebody declares upfront that they don't want to use any cheesy tactics(be it glitch or intended mechanic) I will respect that and not recommend such things of course. 

And that has to be good enough, seriously. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Boeroer

[Haplok]

Yes, it was me. And you can think me a hypocrite if you wish. As I wrote, I like OP combos possibly as much as you do, maybe more.

However for me there is a very clear difference between an exploit of game mechanics, however OP they might be - and sometimes possibly different from devs intentions (but we do not know that exactly), and manually glitching the game to work in ways CLEARLY unintended - such as "don't learn this spell, equip grimoire, cast and quickly remove the grimoire, so that the equipped spell effect will get stuck". Well that or "equip-unequip an item a hundred times to stack all active effects into practical infinity".

Again, everyone's free to play how they want. But recommending new board members such behavior without a big-ass glitch/exploit disclaimer is wrong IMO.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Haplok

[Not So Clever Hound]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

It's not a religion where we as forum high priests have to divine the will of our Obsidian dev gods - to tell other players how the holy game has to be played.

But... I thought we had an agreement..?   [Sadly puts costumes away]

[abot]

... aaand in the meantime, for all us ultimate cheesers,  I found another one I was not aware LOL
Muse of Mystery from Robes of the Weyc: you can prolong it and enjoy a troubadour new phrase every 2 sec

[Boeroer]

2 hours ago, Haplok said:

But recommending new board members such behavior without a big-ass glitch/exploit disclaimer is wrong IMO.

You chose to ignore significant parts of my answer. The point was that I can share whatever I genuinely think is fun and readers can decide for themselves if they might like it or not. They don't need the "Maybe-the-devs-didn't-want-you-to-play-like-that-inquisituon" as long as there's no competition like the Ultimate Challenge involved. 

There's no harm in sharing any information about the game nor is it in any way worse or better that how you play or what information you share. It is, as you said - just our opinion.

While it's totally fair to recommend stuff we like in the game no matter what it is - and even to say what we don't like about certain practices - it is pretty uncalled for to criticize forum users for using and/or sharing that info.

A disclaimer for new board members is nice. But Manu22 already played Deadfire solo after numerous suggestions from this forums and thus isn't exactly a new board member whom you have to take by the hand for every step - or at least that's what I assumed:

Quote

 

I played a lot with the Bloodmage/Soulblade

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Boeroer

[Raven Darkholme]

8 hours ago, Haplok said:

Yes, it was me. And you can think me a hypocrite if you wish. As I wrote, I like OP combos possibly as much as you do, maybe more.

However for me there is a very clear difference between an exploit of game mechanics, however OP they might be - and sometimes possibly different from devs intentions (but we do not know that exactly), and manually glitching the game to work in ways CLEARLY unintended - such as "don't learn this spell, equip grimoire, cast and quickly remove the grimoire, so that the equipped spell effect will get stuck". Well that or "equip-unequip an item a hundred times to stack all active effects into practical infinity".

Again, everyone's free to play how they want. But recommending new board members such behavior without a big-ass glitch/exploit disclaimer is wrong IMO.

I don't want to be rude, but you contradict yourselve here, as you kept starting these arguments even if I (and maybe others) gave a "-big-ass glitch/exploit disclaimer".

I agree with @Boeroerthat it's weird to "police" how other people play their game.

But I also have to add, and excuse me if this sounds rude again, it's not intended, I find it weird how you once mentioned you don't play solo Potd or Ultimate, but yet it seems like you feel the need to point out how in your opinion people should play their single player solo games.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to brate or belittle you, but I'm sick and tired of seeing this same pointless discussion again and again, I have to admit it kept me from posting on these forums more regular.

[freddfranca]

Talking about wizard MC, what do you think about a Loremaster more melee oriented? Maybe Bellower/BM? I just dont want be a full caster.

[dgray62]

Chanter MCs are always fun. However, if you are going for a loremaster, I'd recommend that you go with Bellower or Skald  with a vanilla mage rather than a BM. The reason for this recommendation is with BM you can't empower attacks, so you'd not be able to use Sasha's Singing Scimitar to its full advantage. If you use the Grimoire of Vaprous Wizardry and Rekvu's Fractured Casque you'll have tons of spells to cast, as well as the renewble chanter invocations.

However, if you want to be more melee oriented, I'd recommend a BM/soul blade hierophant. It's a lot of fun in my experience, and using soul annihilation with Citzal's lance is great.

[Manu22]

I decided to give a chance to Arcane Knight. I wasn’t much sure about it because I always prefered to use classes more unusual, try different things.

But I choose Bleak Walker/BM. An evil mage in heavy armor. I imagine something like a Nazgul. This is my atrributes:

15/10/15/21/19/10

[dgray62]

Arcane Knights are classic and a lot of fun to play. The stats you picked look fine. You could drop RES a bit so as to further boost STR, but this isn't necessary.

[Manu22]

42 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

Arcane Knights are classic and a lot of fun to play. The stats you picked look fine. You could drop RES a bit so as to further boost STR, but this isn't necessary.

I was afraid in pump STR and the Blood Sacrifice hurts more than I can handle even with Lay on Hands. I could use more DEX, but I just finished Port Maje and dont want to do it again

[dgray62]

Well, no need to restart. I think that the stats you picked look fine!

[Manu22]

I got another question. The Arcane Knight is fun, but I want try another. My idea was a Tactician/Fury, applying blind from Sunbeam to get Brilliant.

My question is: what benefit I could get from Druid instead the Wizard? Specially Fury, that doesn’t even have healing spells?

[dgray62]

IMO, Tactician/Fury pales in comparison to Tactician/Wizard. My reasons for saying this are the following:

1. Wizards have far more versatile spell selection. You can also rely on grimoires for spells, which saves you from having to use ability points for spells. You can thus invest more points in passives and fighter abilities.

2. Chillfog is a much better spell than Sunbeam, and hence can be used far more reliably to proc brilliant. This is because its blind lasts a long time, and procs repeatedly, so if you miss on the first pulse you'll likely get them later without having to recast. Also, fewer enemies are immune to cold. With the fury, you'll be in trouble when you face foes that are healed by fire damage.

3. Later in the game, using Clear Out with Citzal's lance is a lot fun, when you feel like getting in some melee action.

4. Wizards can take advantage of a number of exploits, like Wall of Draining, to keep their buffs up. WoD with unbending trunk means virtual immortality. You don't have to use these exploits, but they're available if you need them.

[Manu22]

I got it. And if I try something that I didn’t used yet, a pure caster. What would be the best combination (without exploit mechanics)

Spiritualist, Hierophant, Loremaster or another?

Edited July 30, 2021 by Manu22