The TV and Streaming Thread: Series 5

[Sarex]

It's going to be interesting to see Logain playing a much bigger part in the series.

[Gromnir]

22 hours ago, Raithe said:

never watched the show. when it first were released it were kinda a busy time in our life and we never gave it a chance.

alfred bester? serious? the character name is alfred bester? was that something 'bout which were commented 'pon in the show or were it ignored?

HA! Good Fun!

[majestic]

57 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

alfred bester? serious? the character name is alfred bester? was that something 'bout which were commented 'pon in the show or were it ignored?

Sort of, if you count Alfred Bester being a telepath in Babylon 5 as commentary. It's a clear reference, at least.

My appreciation for Babylon 5 has degraded in recent times - it's a show that suffers from rewatching it. The little things you gloss over the first time become more prominent, and you'll start to notice that it's a bit messy and that the actor's performances weren't really that good (with some exceptions, but Bruce Boxleitner and Patricia Tallman can't act even if their life depended on it). Having a serialized story is nothing special in this day and age either, but it was a huge draw at the time.

Contains a dig at Deep Space Nine, because the concept was apparently presented to Paramount but not picked up, and they then came out with a space station based TV show that eventually also contained serialized storytelling (although not nearly as much as Babylon 5 did). Relies heavily on keeping you entertained through a slow unravelling of a mysterious conflict, and a completely rushed conclusion to a secondary plot line (in all fairness, that is due to the troubled commitment of the studio to the show) about the rise of a fascist regime.

I'm a sucker for the mystery part, but that's also a big reason why rewatches aren't nearly as interesting. Once you know what's going on (and what is going on is a tad silly), the show loses a part of its appeal. Traded more newtonian space physics for straight up more space action somewhere in season three.

Is very well worth a watch for fans of sci-fi, but I prefer Deep Space Nine. Cue random rabid Babylon 5 fan berating me in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...

[InsaneCommander]

21 minutes ago, majestic said:

Is very well worth a watch for fans of sci-fi, but I prefer Deep Space Nine. Cue random rabid Babylon 5 fan berating me in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...

Warning: Faris gif!

Spoiler

 

[Zoraptor]

51 minutes ago, majestic said:

[..]

Cue random rabid Babylon 5 fan berating me in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...

Galatians 4:16.jpg

B5 has some amazingly good top episodes and the main arc is great- up to a point- but it's got a load of problems that become more and more evident once the mystery is gone. That's why I'm for once reasonably keen on there being a remake since a lot of the problems should be readily fixable.

[InsaneCommander]

3 hours ago, Sarex said:

It's going to be interesting to see Logain playing a much bigger part in the series.

The teaser seems to confirm at least part of the dialogue that was in a video with an actor who didn't get a role in the show.

Spoiler

The Aes Sedai will say that he is really strong.

I don't remember if this was stated in the books so early, but it shows how important he will be.

[Zoraptor]

Spoiler

Logain's strength is a bit... ambivalent in the early books, iirc. Most of what we hear implies he's very strong, but in tGH Verin also says he wasn't strong enough to handle the male Big Statue sa'angreal, while Moiraine (+Siuan and Elaida at least) could handle the female one which indicates they're all stronger than him. OK, they're the top tier female channelers of the period (well, without going into unnecessary spoilers) but it certainly implies that Logain isn't top tier on the male side given that men are on average stronger channelers. Logain == strong channeler is certainly more supported overall though.

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by Zoraptor

[InsaneCommander]

1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Logain's strength is a bit... ambivalent in the early books, iirc. Most of what we hear implies he's very strong, but in tGH Verin also says he wasn't strong enough to handle the male Big Statue sa'angreal, while Moiraine (+Siuan and Elaida at least) could handle the female one which indicates they're all stronger than him. OK, they're the top tier female channelers of the period (well, without going into unnecessary spoilers) but it certainly implies that Logain isn't top tier on the male side given that men are on average stronger channelers. Logain == strong channeler is certainly more supported overall though.

 

The Wheel of Time spoilers:
 

Spoiler

Yes, I remember not getting an impression of him being that powerful in the early books. But in the end he was near the top for male channelers.

In the tv show they will probably allow people with the spark to develop the ability later, but it is also possible that he has been channeling for many years and is stronger than he was in the books at this point.

 

[Zoraptor]

WoT Spoilers

Spoiler

Yeah, the main indication that he was powerful early was him defeating the first Aes Sedai party sent after him, though I'm not sure if that was actually confirmed outright in universe or just Fain (?) spreading rumours; being able to channel at all and killing Aes Sedai. That aspect is clearly going to be played up in the TV show and is probably a better fit for his ultimate book power level, at least.

More major (and later book) spoilers

Spoiler

I kind of think Logain was reworked in the books at some stage, as there are several aspects about him which are inconsistent and by and large Jordan was excellent in those areas. Apart from the power level his age doesn't seem to be entirely consistent with most other 'spontaneous' channelers. Presumably he had passed the 'control or die' phase, but not got to the significantly Tainted stage. Rand starts going a bit bonkers fairly quickly- arguably, as early as TDR- and Thom's nephew Owyn started going mad after about two years. Yet Logain's physical description implies he may be as old as early 30s and given he's a channeler, perhaps older. Mazrim Taim is also described as being potentially 30+ too, but then he does also have a potential reason for not going mad which Logain doesn't.

I did at one stage wonder if Asmodean was originally intended to last longer and the decision to have Taim/ Logain teaching channelers was a later one which was not entirely seamless, done due to Asmodean having too much 'inside information'

 

[Sarex]

2 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

  Hide contents

I kind of think Logain was reworked in the books at some stage, as there are several aspects about him which are inconsistent and by and large Jordan was excellent in those areas. Apart from the power level his age doesn't seem to be entirely consistent with most other 'spontaneous' channelers. Presumably he had passed the 'control or die' phase, but not got to the significantly Tainted stage. Rand starts going a bit bonkers fairly quickly- arguably, as early as TDR- and Thom's nephew Owyn started going mad after about two years. Yet Logain's physical description implies he may be as old as early 30s and given he's a channeler, perhaps older. Mazrim Taim is also described as being potentially 30+ too, but then he does also have a potential reason for not going mad which Logain doesn't.

I did at one stage wonder if Asmodean was originally intended to last longer and the decision to have Taim/ Logain teaching channelers was a later one which was not entirely seamless, done due to Asmodean having too much 'inside information'

Spoiler

Taim was originaly supposed to Demandred in disguise, but some vocal people saw through it almost immediately and Jordan decided to rework that plot line. That probably had an effect on many other plot lines.

 

[InsaneCommander]

8 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

WoT Spoilers

  Hide contents

Yeah, the main indication that he was powerful early was him defeating the first Aes Sedai party sent after him, though I'm not sure if that was actually confirmed outright in universe or just Fain (?) spreading rumours; being able to channel at all and killing Aes Sedai. That aspect is clearly going to be played up in the TV show and is probably a better fit for his ultimate book power level, at least.

 

Spoiler

Defeating the Aes Sedai from that time was not that difficult. That is why Cadsuane came back from retirement.

 

6 hours ago, Sarex said:

  Hide contents

Taim was originaly supposed to Demandred in disguise, but some vocal people saw through it almost immediately and Jordan decided to rework that plot line. That probably had an effect on many other plot lines.

 

 

Spoiler

I wonder what they will do in the show. Maybe Taim will be Demandred this time?

 

[Sarex]

5 minutes ago, InsaneCommander said:

  Hide contents

I wonder what they will do in the show. Maybe Taim will be Demandred this time?

First the show needs to get there.

[InsaneCommander]

1 minute ago, Sarex said:

First the show needs to get there.

The showrunner was already talking about

Spoiler

a major character dying in season 3. So we'll probably get to Cairhien by then. Or maybe it happens in the Aiel Waste, but even then we will probably get to Caemlyn in season 4.

 

[Sarex]

12 minutes ago, InsaneCommander said:

The showrunner was already talking about

  Hide contents

a major character dying in season 3. So we'll probably get to Cairhien by then. Or maybe it happens in the Aiel Waste, but even then we will probably get to Caemlyn in season 4.

So they will be cutting a lot of the material then it seems. I image book 3 will fit into a couple of episodes.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Sarex

[InsaneCommander]

12 minutes ago, Sarex said:

So they will be cutting a lot of the material then it seems. I image book 3 will fit into a couple of episodes.

I hope they will at least not rush book 4. It's one of the best.

[Sarex]

12 minutes ago, InsaneCommander said:

I hope they will at least not rush book 4. It's one of the best.

There is a lot to unpack in book 4, it would have to be a series wide plot cut.

[Zoraptor]

Yeah, you'd have to think that most of book 4 would be in. Way too much world building. There's plenty that can be cut or repackaged in the later books, and much of the stuff that takes a lot of time to do there via writing should be able to be done a lot quicker televisually.

10 hours ago, Sarex said:

  Hide contents

Taim was originaly supposed to Demandred in disguise, but some vocal people saw through it almost immediately and Jordan decided to rework that plot line. That probably had an effect on many other plot lines.

 

Spoiler

Was that ever confirmed?

I always kind of presumed Taim's identity was a deliberate red herring since the Demandred comparisons were far more overt than, say, Mesaana --> Danelle (which while more subtle also got guessed pretty quickly). Indeed, most of the Forsaken's hidden identities got guessed pretty quickly. One of the big bits of evidence for Taim = Demandred was also a red herring in itself- Linus Tech Tips going bonkers when Taim was around implying specific recognition/ knowledge from the AoL.

Having said that, folding the two together for the TV show makes a lot of sense since even in the books and with more background than the series can manage Demandred's real location came across as a bit of an arse pull. Also has to be said, the handling of the Forsaken was kind of off in the books. 13 of the strongest channelers in the AoL that survived decades (?) of war vs far more accomplished and powerful enemies yet they end up getting- let's be frank, in most cases- punked over the course of a few years.

[Bartimaeus]

Was it only me that took until literally like book 12 or 13 to realize that the word was "darkfriend" and not "darkfiend"? ...Oh, I was the only one that was that consistently blind and stupid? Okay, yeah, that's kind of what I thought.

[InsaneCommander]

4 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Yeah, you'd have to think that most of book 4 would be in. Way too much world building. There's plenty that can be cut or repackaged in the later books, and much of the stuff that takes a lot of time to do there via writing should be able to be done a lot quicker televisually.

  Reveal hidden contents

Was that ever confirmed?

I always kind of presumed Taim's identity was a deliberate red herring since the Demandred comparisons were far more overt than, say, Mesaana --> Danelle (which while more subtle also got guessed pretty quickly). Indeed, most of the Forsaken's hidden identities got guessed pretty quickly. One of the big bits of evidence for Taim = Demandred was also a red herring in itself- Linus Tech Tips going bonkers when Taim was around implying specific recognition/ knowledge from the AoL.

Having said that, folding the two together for the TV show makes a lot of sense since even in the books and with more background than the series can manage Demandred's real location came across as a bit of an arse pull. Also has to be said, the handling of the Forsaken was kind of off in the books. 13 of the strongest channelers in the AoL that survived decades (?) of war vs far more accomplished and powerful enemies yet they end up getting- let's be frank, in most cases- punked over the course of a few years.

The tv show can easily improve on that.
 

Spoiler

Huge spoilers below.
 

Spoiler

I think only Demandred did a good job. Maybe Rahvin? Most died in stupid ways or totally underestimated their opponents.

Semirhage at least ended up in the right place. Until she was betrayed in the most unimaginable way.

 

 

[the_dog_days]

Hope they skip the final 3 books. I can't stand the Sanderson trilogy. Talk about reconning. They were awful.

[Zoraptor]

4 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Was it only me that took until literally like book 12 or 13 to realize that the word was "darkfriend" and not "darkfiend"? ...Oh, I was the only one that was that consistently blind and stupid? Okay, yeah, that's kind of what I thought.

From what I remember from usenet back in the day you'd be far from alone. I think Moraine instead of Moiraine was more common, and Edmond's Field a bit less but they were probably the three biggest and most consistent misreadings.

2 hours ago, InsaneCommander said:

 

  Hide contents

Huge spoilers below.
 

  Hide contents

I think only Demandred did a good job. Maybe Rahvin? Most died in stupid ways or totally underestimated their opponents.

Semirhage at least ended up in the right place. Until she was betrayed in the most unimaginable way.

 

Hmm. More big WoT spoilers
 

Spoiler

Demandred has the advantage of making it through to the last book and not really being seen enough to do anything egregiously stupid. His main location was also inherently safer than most.

Graendel I'd say was pretty effective overall. She was meant to be the weakest of them, and in general used dissimulation plus her intelligence and guile a lot better than the others who were meant to be similarly gifted like Mesaana or Moghedien. OTOH, bit of a Team Killer, so definite double edged sword in terms of overall contribution.

I'd give some allowance for the ones that got betrayed, and some for those that couldn't really play to their strengths since they weren't meant to out and out fight/ kill Rand directly. But still, can't really sugar coat a lot of it. If you went by contemporary in book actions rather than by what their reputations were from the AoL you end up with a fairly low opinion of Forsaken competence.

 

[Sarex]

10 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Yeah, you'd have to think that most of book 4 would be in. Way too much world building. There's plenty that can be cut or repackaged in the later books, and much of the stuff that takes a lot of time to do there via writing should be able to be done a lot quicker televisually.

  Hide contents

Was that ever confirmed?

I always kind of presumed Taim's identity was a deliberate red herring since the Demandred comparisons were far more overt than, say, Mesaana --> Danelle (which while more subtle also got guessed pretty quickly). Indeed, most of the Forsaken's hidden identities got guessed pretty quickly. One of the big bits of evidence for Taim = Demandred was also a red herring in itself- Linus Tech Tips going bonkers when Taim was around implying specific recognition/ knowledge from the AoL.

Having said that, folding the two together for the TV show makes a lot of sense since even in the books and with more background than the series can manage Demandred's real location came across as a bit of an arse pull. Also has to be said, the handling of the Forsaken was kind of off in the books. 13 of the strongest channelers in the AoL that survived decades (?) of war vs far more accomplished and powerful enemies yet they end up getting- let's be frank, in most cases- punked over the course of a few years.

Spoiler

It was confirmed by Sanderson on either his youtube channel or in some interview. Can't remember.

 

8 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Was it only me that took until literally like book 12 or 13 to realize that the word was "darkfriend" and not "darkfiend"? ...Oh, I was the only one that was that consistently blind and stupid? Okay, yeah, that's kind of what I thought.

I still call them darkfiends and I read the books multiple times. Such a better name.

[Bartimaeus]

3 hours ago, Sarex said:

I still call them darkfiends and I read the books multiple times. Such a better name.

I always thought they called themselves "friends of the dark", while if you're not with them, you'd call them "darkfiends". You know, an easy way of verbally differentiating between them depending on what side you're on. I got to one of the last books and randomly noticed it wasn't spelled like that in one instance and was like "ha, they spelled it wrong here...and here...and here...wot?". Went back to one of the first books and found an instance of it again and just about

'd

myself.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Lexx]

On 10/15/2021 at 7:54 PM, LadyCrimson said:

Yeah, that was a cute k-drama, I mostly liked it as well. 
There are some very good K-dramas. A lot of them are somewhat fluffy/comedic or melodrama romances - which I definitely enjoy from time to time and K-dramas do it so much better than the US - but there are also the more drama or thriller/crime types that are very good.  Misaeng (slice of life) would be one and last I looked it was still on Netflix. If you want to stay with lighter relationship or general fantasy fare: Because This Is My First Life is sweet (but not very slapsticky).  Anyway, there's some good ones, from wacky to serious, from the past 8 years or so ... but most aren't on Netflix.

Yeah, I tried a few first episodes of other shows, but they all seem a bit ... over the top. I'm not really a big fan of slap stick.

Watched the first episode of Because This Is My First Life now and really liked it. Will definitely continue with that one!

[Gromnir]

17 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Was it only me that took until literally like book 12 or 13 to realize that the word was "darkfriend" and not "darkfiend"? ...Oh, I was the only one that was that consistently blind and stupid? Okay, yeah, that's kind of what I thought.

you managed to finish at least a dozen o' the books? you have earned the option to call 'em anything you damn well please. as far as am concerned, the jordan estate and the book publisher should dedicate a scholarship in your name, and those like you, for the courage and fortitude you displayed when facing improbable odds. 

HA! Good Fun!