The all things Political Topic - When the sun Rises, the shadows must retreat Fleeing in fear from the Fires of dawn

[Skarpen]

21 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

And I am not saying  this ban made sense, of course it didnt but to suggest it was a Muslim ban also cannot be true. Several countries on this list aren't even Muslim !!!

I know that. But someone at some point used the term Muslim ban and you know how nitpicky Gromnir is. 

[Gromnir]

56 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

I know that. But someone at some point used the term Muslim ban and you know how nitpicky Gromnir is. 

now don't sacrifice what little integrity you might possess.

you got it right the first time insofar as what trump were doing: "banning an entire religious group."

sure, what trump were promising were illegal and violated those principles o' the US as enumerated in the Bill o' Rights portion o' the Constitution o' the United States o' America, but it were political expedient to do so 'cause some bass ackwards bigots were not only okie dokie with "banning an entire religious group" from entering the USA, they cheered on the candidate who promised such.

is noteworthy trump did walk back his promise, but not in the way you might expect. trump seemed to think what made his blanket muslim ban ok were fact he only saw it as a temporary if necessary evil. temporary made ok. 

once candidate trump, who did indeed promise banning an entire religious group, became President, he penned an executive order (well, stephen miller were s'posed the primary author o' the proposed executive order, but trump ok'd, so why nitpick, eh?) which woulda done just that. 'course the white house lawyers shot down this suggestion immediate, so a revision were made. @BruceVC got countries wrong. no shock. the actual initial muslim ban nations were as follows: iran, iraq, syria, yemen, sudan, somalia and libya. additionally, syrian refugees from any country would be denied entry, unless they were christian.

*sigh*

the courts quick shot down this executive order. were a transparent attempt to achieve the muslim ban w/o calling it a muslim ban. identify the countries where near 90% o' muslims requesting entry into the US are coming from and ban citizens from those nations were laughed out o' court.

the eventual travel ban implemented via a trump executive order were a slight variation o' the third effort by the trump administration to implement a ban. but lets not forget what trump tried to implement: "banning an entire religious group." and kudos to you for correct identifying what trump were attempting to achieve. you got right the first time, so am not sure why you is abandoning integrity to get agreement with bruce. trump were indeed advocating "banning an entire religious group," and he attempted to do so once he became President. sure, he failed, but am thinking is wrong to deny giving trump the credit he is due on this. pretend trump didn't try and ban muslims is unfair to trump. he gave implementation o' official government religious intolerance the old college try, multiple times in fact, and the damned Courts and Constitution kept blocking his efforts to do so. criticize trump's execution and his failure to understand the Constitution, but don't deny the man his efforts at "banning an entire religious group." and don't retreat from your own position made just a few posts previous.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Skarpen]

10 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

now don't sacrifice what little integrity you might possess.

Ok, i'll try not to 

[ComradeYellow]

Opinion: The rule of law is pushing back against Trump's big lie (msn.com)

Democracy without the Rule of Law isn't democracy, it's chaos.  Trumpism is fascism and chaos.

However, I think American Rule of Law needs an overhaul, one way to turn me off from you and not engage with you is to continuously cite Constitutional theory from weathered papers written centuries ago.

What does American democracy stand for?  Hopefully something better, soon.

[BruceVC]

38 minutes ago, ComradeYellow said:

Opinion: The rule of law is pushing back against Trump's big lie (msn.com)

Democracy without the Rule of Law isn't democracy, it's chaos.  Trumpism is fascism and chaos.

However, I think American Rule of Law needs an overhaul, one way to turn me off from you and not engage with you is to continuously cite Constitutional theory from weathered papers written centuries ago.

What does American democracy stand for?  Hopefully something better, soon.

But come on lets be honest, you dont mind one party states and no Democratic institutions  like freedom of speech 

You openly support China and thats fine, its your choice and your opinion and its good to be honest. But now we cant be worried about the collapse of the USA due to chaos and fascism because its got a long to go before its anything like China.....when  it gets to that level we must all get worried 

[ComradeYellow]

11 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

But now we cant be worried about the collapse of the USA due to chaos and fascism because its got a long to go before its anything like China.....when  it gets to that level we must all get worried 

U.S.A. will not collapse or be like China, ever.  I just hope Western liberalism sees an improvement sometime in my lifetime, is all.

Simple really, you want Socialism with Chinese Characteristics move to China, you want Western liberalism move to U.S.A. or Europe.

'Tis a big planet, there's room for a multitude of systems that can peacefully coexist.  As of now, it is of my opinion strongly that Trumpism is the greatest threat to the U.S.A. and therefore the planet writ large.

[Zoraptor]

Taliban have taken 5 Afghan provincial capitals since Friday. Somewhat to be expected, especially if they were in the south, but two were ~heartland Northern Alliance holdings in Kunduz and Taloqan (albeit Kunduz had been briefly taken before).

[BruceVC]

8 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Taliban have taken 5 Afghan provincial capitals since Friday. Somewhat to be expected, especially if they were in the south, but two were ~heartland Northern Alliance holdings in Kunduz and Taloqan (albeit Kunduz had been briefly taken before).

The entire potential collapse of Afghanistan really means some  civil war until the legitimate government is bankrupt. I imagine this nightmare scenario where you have only Kabul and the local region in the hands of the government and rest of the country under the loose  control of the Taliban. But it will be some stalemate as the government still have an air force and other military hardware

I know I said that the US leaving was understandable but Biden cant just watch the country fail. It would reflect very baldy on his legacy .....especially when you  consider the argument that Democrats stand for human rights, refugee rights, BLM and other rights. The reality of the killing of educated Afghan women and the bombings of the schools created for women wont be a nice situation  to be responsible for if you Biden if Kabul falls

So I would consider a deployment of US troops but then again " when will it end " once that happens

So its a terrible situation and I dont have a  solution   

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by BruceVC

[Skarpen]

10 hours ago, ComradeYellow said:

Democracy without the Rule of Law isn't democracy, it's chaos.  Trumpism is fascism and chaos.

As someone who actually met fascists and communists face to face I can safely say no. Not by a longshot. 

10 hours ago, BruceVC said:

But now we cant be worried about the collapse of the USA due to chaos and fascism because its got a long to go before its anything like China.....when  it gets to that level we must all get worried 

It would be too late then wouldn't it? Being worried is good. Keeps one vigil. 

9 hours ago, ComradeYellow said:

U.S.A. will not collapse or be like China, ever.

Wouldn't be so sure. Would be nice if it wouldn't. But too many people are willing to surrender freedom for illusion of safety which is a slippery slope in that direction. 

Edited August 9, 2021 by Skarpen

[ComradeYellow]

43 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

As someone who actually met fascists and communists face to face I can safely say no. Not by a longshot. 

It would be too late then wouldn't it? Being worried is good. Keeps one vigil. 

Wouldn't be so sure. Would be nice if it wouldn't. But too many people are willing to surrender freedom for illusion of safety which is a slippery slope in that direction. 

Not sure why this got to the Coronavirus thread but I think it's fair to say that MAGA is quite fascistic.  Worshipping a strongman leader perpetuating some kind of mythical past on a crusade against the left is quite comfortably in the realm of fascism.  I mean sure perhaps it wasn't very hardcore and was a bit levitated from it, and Trump was a woefully inadequate and poorly skilled leader (Thank God for that!) but the rythim is there.  He and his supporters are going to continue creating problems for the U.S.A.

Also I don't see the U.S. going full "dictator", they don't have a history of that.  I mean I guess anything is possible but I'd call it unlikely.  Some great "no nonsense" leader who can actually get the job done by aggressively and skillfully solving problems and damning the torpedoes wouldn't be a bad thing for a term or two though.  Every once in a while you gotta elect a sledgehammer to crush glaring and long embedded problems.

[Skarpen]

Just now, ComradeYellow said:

Not sure why this got to the Coronavirus thread

My phone tricked me. Already asked the mod to move it where it should be. 

[HoonDing]

Another Toyota blitzkrieg.

[BruceVC]

18 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

Another Toyota blitzkrieg.

I think you and I may be on the same page if I understand your point but I am not sure exactly what you mean by " Toyota blitzkrieg " 

I assume this is about solutions to destroying the Taliban ?

[ComradeYellow]

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

So I would consider a deployment of US troops but then again " when will it end " once that happens

LOL yeah that always ends well.  Insanity, results.

And China and Russia are handling the situation quite maturely.  They are not intervening in the situation militarily but have hit diplomatic relations with the Taliban in case they win.  No extremist elements and no sending fanatics into their border in return for full recognition and economic development via Belt and Road.

See?  China knows how to do diplomacy like a champ.  Even though the CPC and the Taliban are quite ideologically incompatible, there's such a thing making the best of a bad situation without resorting to swords and steel.

[Elerond]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

I think you and I may be on the same page if I understand your point but I am not sure exactly what you mean by " Toyota blitzkrieg " 

I assume this is about solutions to destroying the Taliban ?

"Last year, in an analysis for The European (in German), I referred to the pickup trucks as the insurgents’ equivalent of Germany’s light tank force during their Blitzkrieg campaigns in World War II. Like the German tanks in the 1940s,  the images of Hilux trucks armed with machine guns and with hooded ISIS fighters on top of the vehicle serve as much as psychological weapon to intimidate opponents as they add real value on the battlefield."

https://thediplomat.com/2015/10/japans-largest-company-is-isis-car-maker-of-choice/

[BruceVC]

15 minutes ago, Elerond said:

"Last year, in an analysis for The European (in German), I referred to the pickup trucks as the insurgents’ equivalent of Germany’s light tank force during their Blitzkrieg campaigns in World War II. Like the German tanks in the 1940s,  the images of Hilux trucks armed with machine guns and with hooded ISIS fighters on top of the vehicle serve as much as psychological weapon to intimidate opponents as they add real value on the battlefield."

https://thediplomat.com/2015/10/japans-largest-company-is-isis-car-maker-of-choice/

Thanks Elerond, what a good link 

I am so glad you recognised what Hoonding was talking about  because he normally posts cryptic or confusing comments that some  people assume is just  trolling but its normally linked to a real event or some historical truth. But of course he often then creates his own " truth " about these events which sometimes is some really hilarious example of race baiting or blaming Colonialism\Whiteness  ...but he is funny 

[Zoraptor]

The 'funny' thing about the ISIS blitzkrieg were the Toyotas (well, Ford in the most famous case) that were advertising random plumbers and the like because they never got the sign writing removed when the CIA shipped them off to help the 'moderate opposition' in Syria- though not quite as funny as the US government having the balls to ask Toyota how ISIS were getting them when Timber Sycamore existed.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Zoraptor

[Pidesco]

The technical has been a staple of irregular warfare in North Africa and the Middle East for decades now. Mobility, cheapness, reliability and versatility have made them very useful and a symbol of power, really. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_(vehicle)

[Zoraptor]

Yep, hence things like the 'original' Toyota War, AKA the Chad Chad vs the Virgin Libya.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/09/climate/climate-change-report-ipcc-un.html

Big yikes.

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, Pidesco said:

The technical has been a staple of irregular warfare in North Africa and the Middle East for decades now. Mobility, cheapness, reliability and versatility have made them very useful and a symbol of power, really. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_(vehicle)

Sure, its not a surprising development that African or ME  countries have a Toyota, or similar manufacturer, dealer selling vehicles. This is normal in most countries 

But this has nothing to do with fueling war or somehow holding the likes of Toyota responsible for how ISIS gets their vehicles 

[Pidesco]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

Sure, its not a surprising development that African or ME  countries have a Toyota, or similar manufacturer, dealer selling vehicles. This is normal in most countries 

But this has nothing to do with fueling war or somehow holding the likes of Toyota responsible for how ISIS gets their vehicles 

People that suggest that are either very dumb or extremely disingenuous. 

[ComradeYellow]

Marxism resurges among young Chinese after CPC’s centenary proves a success - Global Times

See?  If this were a fascist regime, these kids would be rounded up and put in camps, or worse.

Yes I'm aware Global Times is "Official" state news but that's kinda the point, government is praising kids who want a more orthodox Marxian resurgence.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

25 minutes ago, ComradeYellow said:

See?  If this were a fascist regime, these kids would be rounded up and put in camps, or worse.

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/13/984994360/he-tried-to-organize-workers-in-chinas-gig-economy-now-he-faces-5-years-in-jail

In China labor organizers have been getting jailed for years. The idea of the PRC as a Marxist bastion against the capitalist hegemony is a fantasy that occupies headspace in dip**** tankies and unhinged conservatives/fascists, the truth is that China is a capitalist **** hole like the rest of the world and conducts itself as such.

[ComradeYellow]

1 hour ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/13/984994360/he-tried-to-organize-workers-in-chinas-gig-economy-now-he-faces-5-years-in-jail

In China labor organizers have been getting jailed for years. The idea of the PRC as a Marxist bastion against the capitalist hegemony is a fantasy that occupies headspace in dip**** tankies and unhinged conservatives/fascists, the truth is that China is a capitalist **** hole like the rest of the world and conducts itself as such.

In China Marxism is seen as a noble ideal that's something achievable in the future, not something that must be forceably implemented.  It's capitalist in practice but Marxist sentiment still runs deep in the hearts and minds of the Chinese public.  It's called being realistic and not overtly ideological.  Capitalists serve the public, not rule over them and flamboyantly control the country by throwing money at politicians making themselves TV stars like in the U.S.

Meanwhile in Germany

Rise in far-right extremists seen in Germany last year - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

Color me not surprised. 

Edited August 10, 2021 by ComradeYellow