Stealth/Slight of Hand Ratio

[Griffonheart]

So I need to be stealthy enough to pick pocket, but also high SoH skill to ensure success. What’s the best ratio for this?

[Boeroer]

Sleight of Hand doesn't need to be very high. Also stealth hasn't to be very high in order to pickpocket most NPCs (you can't pickpocket enemies anyway). Stealth can also be buffed by items like pet, boots etc - or you can use Leap to jump right next to an NPC and pickpocket them with almost no stealth (because you will be there in an instant instead of slowly sneaking towards them). If you pause when executing Leap (from boots or as a Barb) and then unpause/pause quickly you can time it so that the target cirlce appears near the NPC but your char is still in the air. If you cancel the action then you will land besides the NPC, still in full stealth and no effect will get triggered and resource will get used.

In general I would say stealth:sleight of hand can be 2:1. Don't know if that's the best. There was a table floating around here that listed the highest skill checks in the game. That would be helpful to determine the exact ratio now...  

Edited May 9, 2021 by Boeroer

[Griffonheart]

21 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Sleight of Hand doesn't need to be very high. Also stealth hasn't to be very high in order to pickpocket most NPCs (you can't pickpocket enemies anyway). Stealth can also be buffed by items like pet, boots etc - or you can use Leap to jump right next to an NPC and pickpocket them with almost no stealth (because you will be there in an instant instead of slowly sneaking towards them). If you pause when executing Leap (from boots or as a Barb) and then unpause/pause quickly you can time it so that the target cirlce appears near the NPC but your char is still in the air. If you cancel the action then you will land besides the NPC, still in full stealth and no effect will get triggered and resource will get used.

In general I would say stealth:sleight of hand can be 2:1. Don't know if that's the best. There was a table floating around here that listed the highest skill checks in the game. That would be helpful to determine the exact ratio now...  

The one item I want is that range weapon ring from Shrimp because, well, that's the only item I know would benefit from a combination of stealth and sleight of hand, and killing him would cause negative rep with Royal Deadfire Company. That, and armors/weapons from the two Valian families. Is there anything else unique that requires SoH?

[The Berathian]

I think you need slight of hand at six or seven to pick Shrimp's pocket, and you need some pretty high stealth. Don't recall how much. If you can separate Shrimp from his crew, it becomes a whole lot easier. 

[dgray62]

You can get Shrimp's ring with minimal stealth. Just go into stealth on the upper floor of the Queen's Berth and have your character with the most SoH at the back of the group. Exit via the door to the south that opens on the balcony where Shrimp stands. Pause the game as soon as the new location loads. Your character at the back will be right next to shrimp in stealth, and can easily pick pocket him if you hit pause before s/he goes out of stealth. Figured this out after much trial and error trying to pick his pocket right after arriving in Neketaka.

[Boeroer]

You cannot pickpocket weapons or armor. 

[dgray62]

3 hours ago, Boeroer said:

You cannot pickpocket weapons or armor. 

Yet sometimes you can pickpocket daggers or stilettos, of regular or fine quality. They take more points of SoH to pickpocket than coins, gems or drugs. I've never seen any other weapons appearing as loot. And while you cannot pickpocket armor, you can get gear (bracers, gloves, necklaces), etc., at least if you have selected "loaded pockets" among Berath's Blessings. And everyone can steal Deltro's Cage Helm straight off the head of Ezzali Bardatto, and it doesn't take too much SoH, strangely enough. But you have to kill her to get her armor and weapon.

[Boeroer]

Yes. But it sounded as if @Griffonheartwanted to pickpocket unique armor and weapons from the two Vaillian families. And that's not possible.

[Kaylon]

13 hours ago, dgray62 said:

 And everyone can steal Deltro's Cage Helm straight off the head of Ezzali Bardatto, and it doesn't take too much SoH, strangely enough. But you have to kill her to get her armor and weapon.

You don't have to kill her for the weapon, you just have to complete her quest. You have to kill the heads of the families only if you want their unique armors.

[Griffonheart]

8 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Yes. But it sounded as if @Griffonheartwanted to pickpocket unique armor and weapons from the two Vaillian families. And that's not possible.

Yeah, my bad, I recalled we could pick the helmet from her and kinda thought it's an armor piece. I mean, a helmet is a piece of armor in other games. ^_^

So is that it for Sleight of Hand then? Does it bring me anything better than that range ring and the Deltro helmet? Somehow I don't see I need 20 skill pts in stealth either, unlike Arcana and Alchemy that goes up indefinitely?

[Boeroer]

Right. Maxing out stealth or sleight of hand doesn't make a lot of sense (unless you want to increase flanking damage of Stalker's Patience or something lika that). 

[dgray62]

Pickpocketing is worth the effort IMO, considering that you don't need much of an investment in skill points, at least if you are in a party. No need to bother for solo play, since you'll have more than enough resources.  Even if you don't have the Loaded Pockets blessing, it's worth it for the extra cash and the occasional rare gem (including Adra Ban and Sapphire). But it's a more profitable use of time if you have the Loaded Pockets blessing.

[thelee]

31 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

Even if you don't have the Loaded Pockets blessing, it's worth it for the extra cash and the occasional rare gem (including Adra Ban and Sapphire). But it's a more profitable use of time if you have the Loaded Pockets blessing.

is it possible to get adra ban without loaded pockets?

 

the big problem is that you actually don't need that much pickpocket/sleight of hand to pickpocket all the goodies you get from loaded pockets (or even just vanilla game). A few points plus a pet on occasion will take care of it. Stealth is more important for pickpocketing, than pickpocketing itself, since you actually need to sneak up to people to pick their pockets.

Occasionally you'll see someone with like a 7 sleight of hand-gated item, but it's almost always incredibly lame (a fine stiletto or a piece of hardtack) because the way the system is set up I believe pickpocketing is based on the NPC skill or perception (which is not very well set) and only tangentially the quality of the item being looted.

if they had had the freedom to, i would've wanted OBS to spend more time polishing their stealth/pickpockt mechanics than, i don't know, ship to ship combat.

[dgray62]

5 minutes ago, thelee said:

is it possible to get adra ban without loaded pockets?

Thelee, I am almost positive that you can get the rare gems without loaded pockets. I almost always take this blessing now, but I didn't used to do so, and I recall getting Adra Ban and Sapphires occasionally. Loaded pockets seems to give you a greater chance for extra loot as well as the low level items, which are great early game and then just a source of extra cash. My experience too is that when you lack enough SoH to steal an object, it is almost always a dagger or stiletto, which aren't worth much anyway.

[Griffonheart]

On 5/11/2021 at 12:36 AM, dgray62 said:

Thelee, I am almost positive that you can get the rare gems without loaded pockets. I almost always take this blessing now, but I didn't used to do so, and I recall getting Adra Ban and Sapphires occasionally. Loaded pockets seems to give you a greater chance for extra loot as well as the low level items, which are great early game and then just a source of extra cash. My experience too is that when you lack enough SoH to steal an object, it is almost always a dagger or stiletto, which aren't worth much anyway.

Does Sleight of Hand or Stealth prevent people from seeing you "stealing" stuff?

[Haplok]

Stealth.

I think you actually cannot try to pickpocket if the target noticed your presence.

 

Note sparkcrackers are useful: They will grab NPC attention and make them walk towards the effect to check what's going on. This will change NPC locations and directions of their sight cones.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Haplok

[Serg BlackStrider]

3 minutes ago, Haplok said:

Stealth.

I think you actually cannot try to pickpocket if the target noticed your presence.

 

Note sparkcrackers are useful: They will grab NPC attention and make them walk towards the effect to check what's going on. This will change NPC locations and directions of their sight cones.

There are some places (Port Maje Governor's residence, Tikawara Chief's house, Neketaka RDC lounge) where NPC see you stealing (and you get a reputation hit at the very least) even if you are stealthy.

[dgray62]

4 hours ago, Serg BlackStrider said:

There are some places (Port Maje Governor's residence, Tikawara Chief's house, Neketaka RDC lounge) where NPC see you stealing (and you get a reputation hit at the very least) even if you are stealthy.

Very true. But if you have enough stealth, you'll be able to steal from these places, as the more stealth you have, the longer you'll be out of sight before they see you. You can also use the bounding boots or barbarian leap ability to leap from stealth, and steal before they notice you. And as Haplok indicated, you can use sparkcrackers or arkemyr's dazzling lights to distract them, enabling you to steal even without leaping in.

[Serg BlackStrider]

9 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

Very true. But if you have enough stealth, you'll be able to steal from these places, as the more stealth you have, the longer you'll be out of sight before they see you. You can also use the bounding boots or barbarian leap ability to leap from stealth, and steal before they notice you. And as Haplok indicated, you can use sparkcrackers or arkemyr's dazzling lights to distract them, enabling you to steal even without leaping in.

I just checked with old save at max level and Eder with 15 Stealth - this worked (distraction with sparkcrackers) but Eder should be completely hidden (no red or yellow filling) to steal from Ranga of Tikawara and not get a reputation hit. In most other places it is enough to have a yellow or partial red filling to steal without anyone noticing.

[Haplok]

Don't think Dazzling Lights help - they only work on hostile creatures AFAIR

[Boeroer]

Mostly correct I believe. I think it works on some neutral NPCs that are on guard as well. At least I remember that (not yet hostile) guards in Fort Deadlight reacted...? But shop-dudes and such: nope, they won't move. Rokowa's Fingers will work though.  

Edited May 12, 2021 by Boeroer

[Griffonheart]

So steal is a visual thing? Though at some locations when I open a box without anyone in the room, it'd still count as stealing and takes a rep hit.

[Boeroer]

Usually it's like that: if the items in the container have a red background the theft will get noticed. If the background is not read it's cool.