The all things Poltical topic - We bear our banners aloft, boots like Drums Our Cadence quick, our countenance dire.

[Gorth]

11 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

I have decided to officially endorse a candidate for the governor of California.

Wont violate his own mandates and eat indoor... yeah right

 

 

[Gromnir]

17 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

The January 6th commission was blocked - 54 yays, 35 nays. Scumbag Sinema from Arizona skipped town, along with a number of Republicans. I'd really like to see the filibuster reduced in power - back to the old days of forcing Senators to actually sit up there and talk for 72 hours straight rather than just being able to say "I filibuster" and that being the end of the story. It'd make it so they would actually work to filibuster the important things rather than just filibuster literally everything solely to obstruct anything and everything.

there is a significant downside to the talking filibuster, which is why the rule were changed. a filibuster where minority senators need actual debate issues *gasp* stops all legislative business. we ended up with the silent filibuster 'cause the majority were tired o' a minority being able to hold up all legislative business. an obstructionist party may use filibuster to cripple Congress, which is kinda what mitch wants, yes? 

am in favor of bringing back debate and having folks like mitch mcconnell and ted cruz explain why, even though democrats agreed to all republican demands during negotiations for the proposed bipartisan january 6 investigation, republicans were nevertheless opposed to empowering a commission to look into causes o' the insurrection as well as considering preventative measures to avoid a future similar event. heck, way more than simple majority o' republicans polled believe january 6 were caused by antifa, blm and democrats. shouldn't they want an investigation to prove such malfeasance?

'course any sorta meaningful investigation is gonna make republicans look bad. is a reason kevin mccarthy has been dodging questions 'bout his phone call with the President on January 6. paul gosar, mo brooks and andy biggs were all instrumental in organizing the stop the steal rally on january 6 which preceded the insurrection, and am suspecting they do not want their dirty laundry aired and they sure as heck don't wanna be subpoenaed to explain a few o' their texts and emails. we warned folks following january 6 that get trump for incitement would be tough, but conspiracy to incite violence is another question entirely, and trump's failure in his duty to protect Congress also needs explanation. trump speech may be protected, but his actions still would normal have consequences. etc.

mitch, as we noted earlier in the thread, is taking a rational and transactional approach. in anticipation o' the midterms, mitch needs to prevent democrats from being able to brag 'bout positives o' the biden administration, so he is gonna obstruct to an extreme degree. likewise, mitch wants to undercut and delay the truth 'bout how corrupt were the trump administration. a talky filibuster has the potential of working to mitch's advantage as he wants the senate handicapped. 

am in favor o' a talky filibuster. make senators speak in defense o' their actions at 3:00am is gonna lead to more than a few moments o' schadenfreude. gd likes memes. a talky filibuster is gonna be a meme goldmine. even so, am recognizing is not all good news for the majority to reinstate the talky filibuster. the fact a majority got rid o' the talky filibuster should give democrats pause before they embrace such a change. those who do not learn from history...

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

52 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

. gd likes memes. 

Videos and editorial cartoons too. 
 

Vote for the Bear Gromnir. 

[Guard Dog]

I’m not sure why we need a commission to investigate what happened on January 6. Some idiot down the street gave a speech and said “let’s go to the capital“ and a bunch of other idiots did it.

and calling that an insurrection is a joke. They didn’t have a plan. They didn’t know what they were doing. They had no idea of overthrowing the government. It was a bunch of idiots who did an idiot thing and most of them are going to spend a few years in jail for their trouble. Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch. Firing on fort Sumter was an insurrection. Firing on the British at Concord was a insurrection. Calling that mob on January 6 and insurrection is giving a bunch of yahoos too much credit.

[Malcador]

Would be nice to just have a post mortem so they can figure out what they need to adjust so a screwup like that doesn't occur though.

[Sarex]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/28/eu-pledges-funding-belarus-transition-democracy

Hahaha, so this is the EU democracy... Anyways I think they miscalculated on the correct number, as I'm pretty sure they get more from Russia annually.

[Gromnir]

3 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

 

and calling that an insurrection is a joke. 

you keep repeating the same nonsense, so am not gonna repeat self other than to observe the repetition and to note you continue to create your own definition o' insurrection while also ignoring the actual events o' January 6.

as to the need for a commission, if before january 6 we had told gd that a bunch of proud boyz and trump supporters (am knowing the identifiers is a bit repetitive at this point) would not only attack the Capitol but they would succeed in their efforts to interfere with the electoral process, driving the vice President and members of Congress fleeing to secure locations which were for a time anything but secure, he would suggest we were being over dramatic... and any normal person who is familiar with english definitions and/or law would recognize that if you had multiple people working together to achieve the goals we describe, it would be proper identified as an insurrection. 

the previously improbable happened at the US freaking Capitol. somebody should investigate to determine what went wrong.

for chrissakes, if the Capitol were hit by a tornado, an actual unpredictable event beyond the control o' anybody in the federal government, and more than 140 police personnel were injured, there would nevertheless be some kinda commission to determine what could be done in the future to better prepare for tornadoes at the Capitol in the future. nevertheless, for some inexplicable reason, an avoidable and manmade calamity is something we all just need to put behind us, 'cause p00p happens, or some similar bit o' trite nonsense.

will add meme worthy to keep gd entertained

not actual meme worthy in retrospect... and we will note were unfair to say trump said people should inject bleach to prevent covid. trump said his science folks should look into the possibility o' injecting sunshine and bleach to cure covid... which doesn't make trump appear less ignorant or unhinged, but accuracy is important even in humor posts.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 29, 2021 by Gromnir

[Sarex]

The funny thing is that when similar protests happened in Serbia in 2020 and people stormed the Capitol and the police dispersed them (no one killed or seriously injured), the US was fast to object the government oppression of peoples right to protest.

When it happens in the US, then it's terrorism and insurrection. Sweet, sweet irony...

[Gromnir]

7 minutes ago, Sarex said:

The funny thing is that when similar protests happened in Serbia in 2020 and people stormed the Capitol and the police dispersed them (no one killed or seriously injured), the US was fast to object the government oppression of peoples right to protest.

When it happens in the US, then it's terrorism and insurrection. Sweet, sweet irony...

of the tens of people in the US who heard 'bout such and cared, am suspecting half rolled their eyes at the news o' far-right l00ns objecting to lockdown efforts during a pandemic.

am not certain what were the official government response under pompeo and trump. we didn't care enough.

HA! Good Fun!

[Zoraptor]

1 hour ago, Sarex said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/28/eu-pledges-funding-belarus-transition-democracy

Hahaha, so this is the EU democracy... Anyways I think they miscalculated on the correct number, as I'm pretty sure they get more from Russia annually.

The EU has given Ukraine ~5bn euro in loans since 2014, so not much really. The big loans were from the IMF (17 bn usd, in 2014 alone) and World Bank (13bn USD, not all since 2014 though). Those can't be granted by fiat by EU leadership though, only member taxes can. Though in this case the chance of that money actually being allocated any time soon is... low.

Must be terrified of Lukashenko and Putin progressing the Union Treaty in Sochi since their meet has been extended for a day unscheduled. That would really put a cherry on top of the Borrel/ van der Leyen disaster show. Maybe EU bigwigs shouldn't be people judged too incompetent for government by their host countries and kicked sideways to appease their egos? Just an idea. That offer is the epitome of 'something must be done! this is something, so this must be done!'; literally only done so they can say they're doing something.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Zoraptor

[ComradeYellow]

 

Spoiler

 

Yeah baby.  Let's get rid of liberal ideals and just live a world that's more competitive and grounded on realism.

I can dream can't I?

Edited May 30, 2021 by ComradeYellow

[Skarpen]

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6256612534001

After scolding Coast Guard graduates for not clapping here's another excellent remark from creepy Joe. 

[Darkpriest]

@Zoraptor

It's daily mail, but the two names working on the paper are no nobodies. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9629563/Chinese-scientists-created-COVID-19-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html

@Gromnir

If the content of this research paper was sound, would the lab leak theory still be just 'a conspiracy'? 

 

[Elerond]

10 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

The EU has given Ukraine ~5bn euro in loans since 2014, so not much really. The big loans were from the IMF (17 bn usd, in 2014 alone) and World Bank (13bn USD, not all since 2014 though). Those can't be granted by fiat by EU leadership though, only member taxes can. Though in this case the chance of that money actually being allocated any time soon is... low.

Must be terrified of Lukashenko and Putin progressing the Union Treaty in Sochi since their meet has been extended for a day unscheduled. That would really put a cherry on top of the Borrel/ van der Leyen disaster show. Maybe EU bigwigs shouldn't be people judged too incompetent for government by their host countries and kicked sideways to appease their egos? Just an idea. That offer is the epitome of 'something must be done! this is something, so this must be done!'; literally only done so they can say they're doing something.

EU doesn't have funds to offer, as it doesn't have any taxation or borrowing powers. All its money come from member states in members fees, which are negotiated by member states during EU's budget negotiations and EU's budget is usually decided for 7 years to future. EU's budget has some unallocated funds, which EU's commission can use in situations like this, but usually if there is need for billions of euros worth funding then member states need to either decide emergency funding or renegotiate EU's budget. 

3 billion euros may sound quite small when you compare it to sums that are thrown around in negotiations between western economies, but it is ~5% of Belarus GDP, and offer also includes 'magical' promises of lifting sanctions against Belarus, which value is difficult to calculate, but it would have massive effect in Belarus economy even in most pessimistic estimates.

[BruceVC]

29 minutes ago, Elerond said:

EU doesn't have funds to offer, as it doesn't have any taxation or borrowing powers. All its money come from member states in members fees, which are negotiated by member states during EU's budget negotiations and EU's budget is usually decided for 7 years to future. EU's budget has some unallocated funds, which EU's commission can use in situations like this, but usually if there is need for billions of euros worth funding then member states need to either decide emergency funding or renegotiate EU's budget. 

3 billion euros may sound quite small when you compare it to sums that are thrown around in negotiations between western economies, but it is ~5% of Belarus GDP, and offer also includes 'magical' promises of lifting sanctions against Belarus, which value is difficult to calculate, but it would have massive effect in Belarus economy even in most pessimistic estimates.

But also  loans to Ukraine must be measured, you wont help if you just throw money at them without understanding what the  money is being spent. The problem with the Ukraine conflict with Russian separatists is their is no elegant solution as Russia does have some validity for annexing Crimea, I didnt realize this until a recent debate with Zora and Gorthfuscious 

And Russian military intervention in the ME becomes very unnecessarily complicated because of certain realities in the region and outcomes. I did support  the Russian involvement in helping to end the Syrian conflict  because the impasse that existed when Assad couldn't defeat rebels in Aleppo  in 2015 started dragging on and suddenly their were real consequences for this war not being resolved. And the US and UK were not going to get that involved because their solution had been ignored and Russia and China had vetoed their involvement to help the Syrian rebels to defeat Assad in 2011 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-15177114

Now years later the war was still dragging on but  it was becoming an economic and refugee burden on the region so someone had to intervene to end the war one way or another

So it was a  necessary development that Russia intervened ....yes they are notorious for not understanding  the importance of why you  avoid collateral damage like the killings of civilians but I think they have learnt this will the final isolation  of rebels in Idlib province  

The issue now is does the EU and the US help rebuild Syria, my view is not until Assad steps down..

 

 

[Zoraptor]

5 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

If the content of this research paper was sound, would the lab leak theory still be just 'a conspiracy'

Well, either it isn't, or the Daily Fail is living up to its name again. Probably the latter.

 

Quote

 

One tell-tale sign of alleged manipulation the two men highlighted was a row of four amino acids they found on the SARS-Cov-2 spike.

In an exclusive interview with DailyMail.com, Sørensen said the amino acids all have a positive charge, which cause the virus to tightly cling to the negatively charged parts of human cells like a magnet, and so become more infectious. 

But because, like magnets, the positively charged amino acids repel each other, it is rare to find even three in a row in naturally occurring organisms, while four in a row  is 'extremely unlikely,' the scientist said.

'The laws of physics mean that you cannot have four positively charged amino acids in a row. The only way you can get this is if you artificially manufacture it,' Dalgleish told DailyMail.com.

 

I checked, for my sins, and there simply aren't 4 positively charged amino acids in a row in sars cov 2's spike protein sequence.

There 4 basic amino acids in a row in a structural protein (KHKH), but that sequence is identical to that in SARS1, so if it indicated human origin that would be the same for SARS 1.

So either the Fail has garbled something badly or... dunno really. They'd have to have completely misquoted the guy though, because I checked and SARS has a sequence of no less than 7 identically charged amino acids (D/E, aspartic and glutamic acid) in a row which under the 'magnet' analogy ought to be really really impossible, if 4 in a row were.

Wait until the scientific paper gets published I guess, assuming it actually exists.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Zoraptor

[Skarpen]

7 hours ago, Elerond said:

U doesn't have funds to offer, as it doesn't have any taxation or borrowing powers.

It has now. As a part of Recovery plan for Europe | European Commission (europa.eu) EU aquired the both the power to introduce taxes and take loans.

[Guard Dog]

20 hours ago, Gromnir said:

you keep repeating the same nonsense, so am not gonna repeat self other than to observe the repetition and to note you continue to create your own definition o' insurrection while also ignoring the actual events o' January 6.

as to the need for a commission, if before january 6 we had told gd that a bunch of proud boyz and trump supporters (am knowing the identifiers is a bit repetitive at this point) would not only attack the Capitol but they would succeed in their efforts to interfere with the electoral process, driving the vice President and members of Congress fleeing to secure locations which were for a time anything but secure, he would suggest we were being over dramatic... and any normal person who is familiar with english definitions and/or law would recognize that if you had multiple people working together to achieve the goals we describe, it would be proper identified as an insurrection. 

the previously improbable happened at the US freaking Capitol. somebody should investigate to determine what went wrong.

for chrissakes, if the Capitol were hit by a tornado, an actual unpredictable event beyond the control o' anybody in the federal government, and more than 140 police personnel were injured, there would nevertheless be some kinda commission to determine what could be done in the future to better prepare for tornadoes at the Capitol in the future. nevertheless, for some inexplicable reason, an avoidable and manmade calamity is something we all just need to put behind us, 'cause p00p happens, or some similar bit o' trite nonsense.

will add meme worthy to keep gd entertained

not actual meme worthy in retrospect... and we will note were unfair to say trump said people should inject bleach to prevent covid. trump said his science folks should look into the possibility o' injecting sunshine and bleach to cure covid... which doesn't make trump appear less ignorant or unhinged, but accuracy is important even in humor posts.

HA! Good Fun!

Do you think a Congressional commission can make a difference? Without turning into a s--t show partisan circus. It's not the 1960's anymore. Nor the 80's. Few members of Congress today put the institution above their own agendas and games. 

I don't know. Perhaps my own bias clouds my judgement here. I don't hold the  institution nor many of it's members in particularly high regard. The majority party is far more likely to collaborate and decide the outcome before the first meeting and then direct all efforts to realizing that outcome rather than any kind of fact finding process.  I hope I'm wrong. But I doubt I am. 

[rjshae]

10 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

@Zoraptor

It's daily mail, but the two names working on the paper are no nobodies. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9629563/Chinese-scientists-created-COVID-19-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html

@Gromnir

If the content of this research paper was sound, would the lab leak theory still be just 'a conspiracy'? 

I don't think it has gone through peer review yet. You have to flash back to 2020 when the pair made a similar claim. However, the peer reviewed version of their earlier paper did not include the claim.

https://fullfact.org/health/richard-dearlove-coronavirus-claims/

Hmm... well, alternative hypotheses do have their uses in science. If nothing else it's a stress test for the natural origin theory.

[ComradeYellow]

On 5/29/2021 at 9:34 AM, Guard Dog said:

I have decided to officially endorse a candidate for the governor of California.

 

Careful now, voting "Bear" could be construed as "Russian Bear" therefore, Russian puppet(!) by some circles *cough* liberal elitists/pundits/idiots *cough*.

[Zoraptor]

2 hours ago, rjshae said:

I don't think it has gone through peer review yet.

The Fail does say 'set to be published' which would normally imply it's passed review. Then again, they're not exactly reliable and if they did understand about the difference between that and 'submitted' they wouldn't care anyway, if it made them sound more authoritative.

And since it isn't 1am any more...

..while the claim of 4 basic amino acids in a row is patently false and that sequence simply isn't there it is entirely possible that that's not what the authors actually said- with what they did say being translated into a form that the average Mail reader can understand. A protein is a complex 3d structure, so you could have a phrase like 'spatially close' used and then interpreted to 'in a row' as being more easily understood. Spatially close amino acids in a protein can be very far apart in terms of the primary sequence*.

That's still not great, since there isn't any inherent argument against that not being natural either; so long as it's a selective advantage there's no genetic reason not to have them spatially close or 'in a row', that's a structural problem. So long as the rest of the protein is set up to make an effective binding motif the lowest energy configuration it will still 'work'.

End of the day, seeing if the paper gets published and what it actually says is the only way to actually know.

*that's not shown by their 3d model though, where they highlight some basic amino acids (and cysteine bonds, important for structure). That has 3 basic AAs close together which are also sequential in the primary sequence (355-7, RKR) and then only highlights pairs that are close spatially. Since it's a 2d rep of a 3d structure you can't be absolutely sure of that except by downloading the 3d model and looking- be weird if they chose a view that hid it though- and that's far too high effort.

[Gorth]

Those treacherous Danes... never trust them any farther than you can throw them !

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57302806

"Denmark's secret service helped the US spy on European politicians including German Chancellor Angela Merkel from 2012 to 2014, Danish media report.

The Defence Intelligence Service (FE) collaborated with the US National Security Agency (NSA) to gather information, according to a report by Danish broadcaster Danmarks Radio.

Intelligence was collected on other officials from Germany, France, Sweden and Norway, according to the report.

Similar allegations emerged in 2013."

[Malcador]

 

Ah, good old Flynn. The best part is the pronunciation of Myanmar by the supposed Marine, though.

[rjshae]

3 hours ago, Malcador said:

 

Ah, good old Flynn. The best part is the pronunciation of Myanmar by the supposed Marine, though.

That party is heading down into a very dark place. At one time I once supported guys like Bob Dole and John McCain, but I don't recognize the Republican party any more.

[Gorth]

I'm sure many people have heard the horror stories about how the US tested nuclear weapons on their own "volunteer" soldiers, to see if their WW II steel helmets would protect against nuclear blasts or some similar nonsense, just to see how close to ground zero troops could survive.

But they weren't the only ones. The French tested it almost exclusively on Polynesians (with a guest appearance of nukes in Algeria), no doubt the Soviets did similar back home in Mother Russia and while the UK didn't have the decency to test their nukes on some remote Yorkshire farm, they had other options. Send all their **** to Australia (just like they did a century before)

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-57157476

 

"When David Purse was sent to Australia, he thought it would be a "wild adventure" in a little-explored place.

However, the RAF flight lieutenant's posting to a remote area called Maralinga was to test atomic weapons.

Son Steve, 47, from Prestatyn in Denbighshire, puts his own "unique" condition down to "a rare genetic mutation" caused by radiation

The Ministry of Defence said three large studies found no link between the tests and ill health."

 

Yeah, right

 

"In all, about 40,000 British personnel took part in the testing of atomic and hydrogen bombs in the 1950s and 1960s.

Most were in the Pacific - the biggest being Operation Grapple, where about 22,000 people oversaw the exploding of bombs in 1957.

Maralinga, in South Australia, saw the first test launches of atomic weapons from aircraft in 1962.

 

"He was told at short notice and was looking forward to visiting a warm country, a relatively unexplained place, and having a wild adventure," Steve said of his father.

However, he was "close enough to ground zero to see sand to turn to glass" during tests, with no protective equipment."