The All Things Political Thread (One thread to rule them all and in the darkness bind them)

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

20 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

This is what americans actually believe

At the very least there is a substantial amount of Irish and Scots who believe similarly. There's more to life than economics and subsidies from the clown obsessed supercops isn't worth sharing a house with them so to speak.

[Zoraptor]

I'm certainly not opposed to NI rejoining Ireland if the majority are for it. At least in theory, but when it comes to the actual factual you'd need to weigh and be prepared for a lot of violence from the Loyalists if it happened.

OTOH the secessionist Scots are a bunch of abject whiners lead by the nose by snake oil salesmen in the SNP. Everything is the fault of the English, nothing is the fault of the Scots, everything would magically get better once independence was achieved and all the massive subsidies from the rest of the UK removed. Except of course it wouldn't, since Scotland is an utterly unremarkable post industrial backwater in reality and many places throughout the EU do everything it does, but better. Makes a nice lever for the EU, though.

As the old 'joke' goes: if Scotland really wanted independence they'd advocate for England to have a referendum on it.

[ComradeYellow]

5 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

Scotland is an utterly unremarkable post industrial backwater in reality and many places throughout the EU do everything it does, but better.

Sounds like everywhere in Europe tbh, post industrial, post communist, borderline dystopia.

I'm just waiting for them to hit that "post liberal" phase.

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

^^^This is what americans actually believe.

English people suck that much. Not sure most Americans believe that - that England needs Scotiand or Wales more than the other way around (especially Wales, I don't think many people remember they exist..) - England has been synonymous for the UK for a reason.  Seems more spite to want to see the UK explode even if it's mostly debris left.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Malcador

[Zoraptor]

How can you say that with no Monte or Walsingham here to defend the honour of Old Blighty?

[Malcador]

Well, didn't care for either of them, so...quite easily!

I guess Raithe is okay though, so maybe I'll check my spite for the UK just for him.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

59 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

I'm certainly not opposed to NI rejoining Ireland if the majority are for it. At least in theory, but when it comes to the actual factual you'd need to weigh and be prepared for a lot of violence from the Loyalists if it happened.

With the unionists presently rioting over a militia getting cracked down on, violence from them should be expected regardless.

And just because the Scots are annoying or buying into a nonexistent utopia, doesn't mean they shouldn't get independence if they want it.

23 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Not sure most Americans believe that

In my experience, if the average person around here does have an opinion on England it's vaguely favorable. Everyone forgets about Wales and they don't think much about Scotland beyond Scotch.

[ShadySands]

Huh, I always thought Zor was English. I know he lives in NZ but I thought he was from there for some reason. Must update stalker.txt.

56 minutes ago, ArtistFormerlyKnownasKP said:

In my experience, if the average person around here does have an opinion on England it's vaguely favorable. Everyone forgets about Wales and they don't think much about Scotland beyond Scotch.

Same

[Zoraptor]

I've got a British passport, lived there for a couple of years and all bar my immediate family live there. Born and bred in kiwiland though, and haven't been back to the UK in a decade.

Ironically I got the passport mostly so that I could visit EU countries with no hassles...

[Gorth]

9 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Ironically I got the passport mostly so that I could visit EU countries with no hassles...

The same reason I decided to hang on to my Danish passport. Last time I checked, Denmark was still (grudgingly and resentful) a member of the EU. I couldn't get Australian citizenship last time I had the chance, because Denmark didn'tallow dual citizenship, so it was either or. Of course, when I moved back to Europe for a few years (Germany and England), Denmark changed it's legislation so I could now go for dual citizenship

But, Australia requires you to have lived in Australia for the last 4 years before starting the process, even if I had lived for close to a decade in Australia before going back to Europe for a bit. It's now more than 4 years since I returned to AU, so it's time to pick up the paperwork again I guess and get started on the additional citizenship. That should also give me opportunities to just hop back and forth a bit between AU and Kiwidom with a lot less paperwork involved

[Gromnir]

4 hours ago, ShadySands said:

 

Same

am most likely to think 'bout scotland 'cause o' entertainment: shakespeare's play which actors refuse to mention by name, if we happen to see trainspotting (arguable all-time best example o' a movie which did not need a sequel btw,) nerdy highlander references, and anytime gerard butler tries to do an american accent, etc.

from an economic pov, scotland is middle o' the pack if we were to place it on the list o' oecd nations by per capita gdp, right along with uk, france and nz btw. not adjusting per capita and scotland is on par with the US state o' oregon. offshore oil is a significant contributor to scotland gdp and as such scotland economic numbers can fluctuate more than a little in a given year. dunno. am genuine not having more than trivia question answers knowledge 'bout scotland economy. 

most curious from a personal pov, having spent a couple years in europe decades past am admitting racism in scotland were kinda unique. from what we could tell, being racist in scotland were, as often as not, linked to loathing o' the irish. "fenian bastards" were an invocation which somehow found its way into racist tirades no matter how incongruous.  weren't many muslims in scotland at the time when we were there... not many religious or ethnic minorities period. indian and pakistani were most common minority groups. clearly the locals weren't sure what to make o' Gromnir. were just kinda weird to hear drunk racists in a bar in glasgow or edenborough 'cause eventual, in our admitted limited experience, the bigots would turn their ire to the "fenian bastards."

'pon reflection, we probable know more 'bout james clerk maxwell, ctr wilson and long past history o' scotland than 2021 events, people and issues. am ok with that.

HA! Good Fun!

[Gorth]

Northern Ireland doesn't seem to get a break at the moment....

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-56684571

 

Police deployed water cannon for the first time in six years in Northern Ireland after coming under attack in a further night of rioting in Belfast.

Nineteen officers were injured on Thursday night, bringing the number hurt in week of violence to 74.

Crowds rioted on both sides of gates that separate a loyalist area and a nationalist area in west Belfast.

 

I'm not entirely serious, just one of those weird thoughts that pops up in the head sometimes, is this really all due to brexit or is it also a side effect of people being cooped up for too long during lockdowns???

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Gorth said:

Northern Ireland doesn't seem to get a break at the moment....

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-56684571

 

Police deployed water cannon for the first time in six years in Northern Ireland after coming under attack in a further night of rioting in Belfast.

Nineteen officers were injured on Thursday night, bringing the number hurt in week of violence to 74.

Crowds rioted on both sides of gates that separate a loyalist area and a nationalist area in west Belfast.

 

I'm not entirely serious, just one of those weird thoughts that pops up in the head sometimes, is this really all due to brexit or is it also a side effect of people being cooped up for too long during lockdowns???

It is a concern and something I have been following with the recent simmering tensions between Irish loyalists and nationalists. Both sides have been linked to violence in this latest incident, part of the reason for this violence seems to be BREXIT related and issues like the Irish border and part of it is related to  an IRA funeral that was allowed to happen with social distancing being ignored

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-56566468

Edited April 9, 2021 by BruceVC

[Gorth]

Speaking of the English and the Welsh. Hands up everyone who knew Wales provided the manpower to swing the tide of war in the War of the Roses and helped put the Tudors on the throne eventually, supporting Jasper Tudor and Henry Tudor. later Henry VII, the victor of the battle at Bosworth (archeologists were delighted when they dug up Richard III's remains from a parking lot in Leicester, which now covers the old battleground at Bosworth).

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7702913.stm

When officials asked for the Welsh translation of a road sign, they thought the reply was what they needed.

Unfortunately, the e-mail response to Swansea council said in Welsh: "I am not in the office at the moment. Send any work to be translated".

So that was what went up under the English version which barred lorries from a road near a supermarket.

"When they're proofing signs, they should really use someone who speaks Welsh," said journalist Dylan Iorwerth.

The English is clear enough to lorry drivers - but the Welsh reads "I am not in the office at the moment. Send any work to be translated."

[Guard Dog]

16 hours ago, Gromnir said:

*sigh*

am knowing what you were talking 'bout, but again, is utter irrelevant. similar weapons were used in the french and indian war.  so what?

the kit guns owners is not being forced to suffer some kinda special limit. opposite. the kit gun is now having same restrictions all other similar firearm sales need meet. point out fact that some such guns is modeled on firearms from the american revolution is some kinda attempt at deflection or just misguided. couldn't possible put a second amendment limit on an american revolutionary weapon? once the Constitution became the law o' the land, pretty much every state, and a whole lotta municipalities had gun control laws which would necessarily have impacted revolution era weapons.  however, because certain specific kits are not getting a special exemption, you somehow see as onerous to the 2nd amendment? serious? 

the requirement that ghost guns need have serial numbers and ownership must be following same background checks as other firearms baffles you why exactly? of course there will be select ghost guns which while still lethal is unlikely to ever be used in some kinda crime. so what? the second amendment infringement resulting is no greater than the burden on other current firearm ownership and it would be utter asinine to try and carve out individual exceptions (which necessarily create opportunities for exploitation) when the burdens is negligible. who do you want deciding which firearms is not scary enough or lethal enough to require serial numbers and background checks?

again, the burden being imposed is no different than other firearm ownership.

more no compromise silliness.

HA! Good Fun!

Onerous? No. But not necessary in this instance. It is curious why he's want such firearms serialized. Only 14 states require any kind of registration of firearms. A number of states require a spent shell casing from new firearm sales along with a SN of the weapon to create a "fingerprint" so to speak of the weapon. But it takes about 60 seconds to replace a firing pin and obviously this can't apply to muzzleloaders. The only reason why a governing entity  wants serial numbers is they are expecting to have registration at some point. That has some obviously sinister implications. 

But, at any rate I found that irony somewhat funny, you didn't and that's that. My previous comment on Biden's EOs yesterday were that they were a nothing burger. And they are. 

The one thing that actually did bother me was his "model" for Red Flag laws. It's curious he said no guaranteed right is absolute. He was referring to the 2A but if he likes red flag laws it's obvious he fells that way about the 4th, 5th, and 14th as well. Red Flag laws allow the state to seize firearms before a crime is committed on the presumption one will be. This is done with no warning or due process for the owner since they are not even aware it's happening until armed cops show up. And there is no process for getting them back other than to go in court and attempt to prove a negative. I imagine you were an excellent lawyer but I think even you'd have a hard time with that.  

[BruceVC]

I laughed at this, Prince Philip made a few public gaffs. One of them was when  he said in 2002 to a group of Aborigine's

"  "Do you still throw spears at each other?"  ...shame, the Queen must have died of embarrassment but here is the actual story and  he wasnt being racist 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-03/prince-philip-was-not-a-racist-indigenous-performer-says/9504278#:~:text="Do you still throw spears at each other%3F",far north Queensland with the Queen in 2002.

[ComradeYellow]

Russian forces are massing on Ukraine's border. Bluff or not, Putin is playing with fire (msn.com)

Westerners:  Hell-to-the-No P00tface!

Russians:  Ukraine is ourrsz *punch-to-the-face*

[Guard Dog]

Russia threatens Ukraine, China is preparing to invade Taiwan. Dangerous times. I wonder if we will ever see a US president have the courage to make a stand like this again:

Regarding Taiwan we actually do have a joint defense agreement with them. I don’t think we have any such with Ukraine. I cannot imagine the world standing by and watching China invade Taiwan. Too many business relationships with companies based in Taiwan. Russia invasding Ukraine however might not provoke the same kind of response 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Guard Dog

[Zoraptor]

China has been preparing to invade Taiwan for 70 years now. It's always been their aim. They're a lot more likely to salami a few ancillary islands 'peacefully'- as they seem to be doing again and have done previous in the Philipine Sea- than go for an extremely risky invasion.

I very much suspect both the Taiwan and Ukraine 'crises' are being run as a deliberate scare campaign so that when nothing happens Biden gets the credit for being 'tough' and preventing the stuff that wouldn't have happened anyway from happening. That also gives him some capital to make concessions in other areas, like the JCPOA.

52 minutes ago, ComradeYellow said:

Russian forces are massing on Ukraine's border. Bluff or not, Putin is playing with fire (msn.com)

'Massing' = 25k troops. I wondered why articles weren't mentioning the numbers and eventually got my answer. Even in a limited invasion scenario that's way too few. Enough to intervene in a Ukrainian attack on 'Novorussia', nowhere near enough to do anything else. The Ukrainian army may make the Georgian one look like the Ghurkas, but you aren't going to invade at a 10:1 disadvantage and that excluding reserves.

[ComradeYellow]

15 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

China has been preparing to invade Taiwan for 70 years now. It's always been their aim. They're a lot more likely to salami a few ancillary islands 'peacefully'- as they seem to be doing again and have done previous in the Philipine Sea- than go for an extremely risky invasion.

I don't know man I used to think like this just a few years ago, when my step dad would make retarded nuclear scare gestures I used to roll my eyes.

These days though it just feels....different like a cyclical shift from the 1930's.

The second the U.S. shows any kind of weakness I'm just waiting for certain powers to pounce on the opportunity.

[Elerond]

1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

Russia threatens Ukraine, China is preparing to invade Taiwan. Dangerous times. I wonder if we will ever see a US president have the courage to make a stand like this again:

Regarding Taiwan we actually do have a joint defense agreement with them. I don’t think we have any such with Ukraine. I cannot imagine the world standing by and watching China invade Taiwan. Too many business relationships with companies based in Taiwan. Russia invasding Ukraine however might not provoke the same kind of response 

USA and Russia both promised to ensure Ukraine's independence if they give up their soviet era nuclear weapons, in Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine

Quote

 

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,

Welcoming the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons as non-nuclear-weapon State,

Taking into account the commitment of Ukraine to eliminate all nuclear weapons from its territory within a specified period of time,

Noting the changes in the world-wide security situation, including the end of the Cold War, which have brought about conditions for deep reductions in nuclear forces.

Confirm the following:

1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.

2. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

3. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.

4. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.

5. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm, in the case of Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a State in association or alliance with a nuclear-weapon State.

6. Ukraine, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America will consult in the event a situation arises that raises a question concerning these commitments.

— Memorandum on Security Assurances in Connection with Ukraine’s Accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons

 

 

[Zoraptor]

That has no legal standing/ compulsion to act. Of course, for some reason, Belarus signing the exact same document always gets left out...

...perhaps, maybe, because the US and UK are using economic sanctions against Belarus and are thus themselves in breach of the memorandum?

[Raithe]

GOP Goes Full Psychopath, Threatens to “Tell Trump” About Supporters Who Won’t Pony Up Donations | Vanity Fair

 

[Elerond]

52 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

That has no legal standing/ compulsion to act. Of course, for some reason, Belarus signing the exact same document always gets left out...

...perhaps, maybe, because the US and UK are using economic sanctions against Belarus and are thus themselves in breach of the memorandum?

At least that is official standing of US towards the agreements, but that seems to be their standing towards all international agreements that don't benefit them and even then only parts that benefit them are ones that have any legal standing. (Russia has not been any better on this front). So only compulsion to act on those agreements is the fear of losing power in international politics, but that has been quite weak motivator for our global 'peace keepers'  

Technically agreements with Belarus and Kazakhstan are their own agreements but content in those agreements is identical with that agreement with Ukraine  

[Raithe]

Well. That's a middle paragraph.