The All Things Political Thread (The World and US Reunited)

[Guard Dog]

1 hour ago, Amentep said:

They aren't but it would get them something 'new' to market and sell if they hired a new creator to rework the works. 

That would be a great opportunity to sell six books simultaneously while they are being talked about. People would buy them just for the curiosity

[Gromnir]

3 hours ago, Hurlshot said:

Well said. Children's books are a different matter than classic literature, and it is fine to have different standards for them. Huck Finn is important as it is capturing a very specific time in our American history. I'm all for protecting it. Some dated looking caricatures in a picture book don't get the same reaction from me. It can still be used as a discussion piece, it isn't getting scrubbed from the history books, but there are better options in the children's section of the library.

is our understanding the kerfuffle is 'cause the seuss estate has chosen not to continue publishing the six identified books. 

gd is once again on the wrong side o' this from where he should be if he were maintaining intellectual integrity, 'cause what is the solution if you decide the seuss books must not only need remain on shelves, but must need keep being published? do you force the seuss estate to publish? does The Government take the six books from seuss and publish themselves?

the issue in question is actual one which clear threatens bedrock libertarian principles. we just hope libertarians someday get their act together and decide when private individual rights need be protected and when democracy is evil, 'cause as often as not am baffled when so-called libertarians get their shorts in a twist.

HA! Good Fun!

[Gorth]

@Zoraptorgrab the cat and run for the hills!

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/mar/05/new-zealand-tsunami-warning-earthquakes-evacuation-gisborne-live

 

[Guard Dog]

3 hours ago, Gromnir said:

is our understanding the kerfuffle is 'cause the seuss estate has chosen not to continue publishing the six identified books. 

gd is once again on the wrong side o' this from where he should be if he were maintaining intellectual integrity, 'cause what is the solution if you decide the seuss books must not only need remain on shelves, but must need keep being published? do you force the seuss estate to publish? does The Government take the six books from seuss and publish themselves?

the issue in question is actual one which clear threatens bedrock libertarian principles. we just hope libertarians someday get their act together and decide when private individual rights need be protected and when democracy is evil, 'cause as often as not am baffled when so-called libertarians get their shorts in a twist.

HA! Good Fun!

haven’t we established by now that I am, like most folks, not 100% aligned to any political philosophy? Just because I lean more in one direction over others does not mean I have to agree with it in all things. But... whatever. Think what you like.

besides like you said they can do what they like with their books. Sell them, don’t sell them whatever. When a government entity tells them what to do or even makes the choice for them then I’ll get angry. So would you I’d imagine 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Guard Dog

[rjshae]

The Dr. Seuss books controversy reminds me of the time I scanned the book Principles of Mining by Herbert Hoover. At the start I was pretty interested because it was by a former President; toward the end of Chapter XVI I was thinking: holy cow, this dude's a total bigot. It was an interesting revelation.

[Zoraptor]

2 hours ago, Gorth said:

@Zoraptorgrab the cat and run for the hills!

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/mar/05/new-zealand-tsunami-warning-earthquakes-evacuation-gisborne-live

 

Fortunately I'm on the hills already, and not quite in the right place for an evacuation even if at low altitude. A tsunami that reached my house would need a Chixulhub asteroid or a 9.9 MM earthquake, and in either event the tsunami might actually be the lesser effect compared to the nuclear winter etc.

A 7.3 a 7.1 and a 8.1 earthquake all within ~6 hours of each other makes for an interesting morning. The tsunami didn't really do much except stir up sediment and give an early high tide but you definitely wouldn't want to be in the water at least. It does kind of remind me of when we had international media phoning up about the Fiordland earthquake (7.8 and on mainland NZ rather than a long way off shore) and being baffled that no one was injured let alone dead and how its biggest effect was startling the mythical fiordland moose.

[InsaneCommander]

14 hours ago, Malcador said:

Well not specifically you but I do see people making the claim that we're on the slippery slope to some tyranny, also some funny stuff that only if you are racist will you see something as racist.  Eagerly anticipating Youtube recommending me some neckbeard icon preaching about it

 

 

13 hours ago, Amentep said:

It's already been done before. The 60s/70s/80s reprints of pulp stories for Doc Savage, The Shadow, The Avenger, etc. were all edited to remove outdated terminology; typically reference to non-white races that were considered offensive being changed to neutral racial descriptors.

EDIT: Oh, and several NANCY DREW novels were completely re-written (sometimes keeping only the name) beginning in the 1960s to remove elements that would be considered offensive.

If we are heading to a dystopia, then I imagine it could be like the future in the tv show Continuum, where physical copies of books are outlawed. In a society like that, they could edit books whenever they wanted, a sort of "digital Fahrenheit 451".

[Gromnir]

6 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

haven’t we established by now that I am, like most folks, not 100% aligned to any political philosophy? Just because I lean more in one direction over others does not mean I have to agree with it in all things. But... whatever. Think what you like.

besides like you said they can do what they like with their books. Sell them, don’t sell them whatever. When a government entity tells them what to do or even makes the choice for them then I’ll get angry. So would you I’d imagine 

"sell them, don't sell them whatever," don't mesh with earlier gd posts, and you don't seem to realize the disconnect. if you can't recognize, am not sure how to help you.

and am not angry precise 'cause is no government entity telling the seuss estate what to do or how to do it insofar as the six box in question. is why you ain't seeing Gromnir posts analogizing the seuss estate actions to nazi book bonfires. 

btw, claim no pure ideology is hardly a free pass for transactional defense o' liberties, eh? 

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/02/us/dr-seuss-books-cease-publication-trnd/index.html

I am not comfortable with the " banning/not publishing " of the Dr Seuss books because it ignores the historical context and seems to be inconsistent with its criticism 

For example if you read the CNN article it says 

"The study also argues that since the majority of human characters in Dr. Seuss' books are White, his works -- inadvertently or not -- center Whiteness and thus perpetuate White supremacy "

So if a white person writes a story that only has white characters that now translates to " White supremacy " ....sure, tell me another one 

Dr Seuss writes fantasy stories, its not about Whiteness, White tears or White Male Privlidege and I dont support this refusing to publish these books on principle 

[Amentep]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

 

I am not comfortable with the " banning/not publishing " of the Dr Seuss books because it ignores the historical context and seems to be inconsistent with its criticism 

It's his estate that pulling the books from being reprinted again. So...

[BruceVC]

5 minutes ago, Amentep said:

It's his estate that pulling the books from being reprinted again. So...

Yes because of a report that highlights ostensibly what the books represent 

The report is not written in good faith as I mentioned earlier with the example of " only white characters " in a book written by a white person 

[Guard Dog]

3 hours ago, Gromnir said:

"sell them, don't sell them whatever," don't mesh with earlier gd posts, and you don't seem to realize the disconnect. if you can't recognize, am not sure how to help you.

and am not angry precise 'cause is no government entity telling the seuss estate what to do or how to do it insofar as the six box in question. is why you ain't seeing Gromnir posts analogizing the seuss estate actions to nazi book bonfires. 

btw, claim no pure ideology is hardly a free pass for transactional defense o' liberties, eh? 

HA! Good Fun!

First off that little quip was a facetious comment not intended to be taken seriously. I do that fairly often. Mock absurdity  with absurd comments. I did not and do not see anyone’s liberty being violated here.  It’s their license to do with as they please.
 

What I DID suspect was a whole lot of nothing when it comes to “offensive images” in a children’s book. If they were so goddamn bad why was it impossible to find them on Google. None of the news stories were saying what they were or WHY they were bad. And I am preprogrammed to suspect all outrage is false until demonstrated otherwise so therein lies the sarcasm. Well Gfted linked a story with a couple of the pics and I agreed they were “very 1930’s” and not good for children’s books. 
 

I do not see any positional disconnect here. Heck even a few months ago I posted an article about a school district in Massachusetts somewhere “banning” books (my words once again being facetious) in class. Well they were not exactly banning they were being taken off the reading list in favor of other things. Even in that instance I didn’t say what they were doing was wrong I said their reasoning was stupid. A stupid action can be done by a person in authority for a stupid reason without it being a violation of anyone’s rights. That does not mean we can’t point it out and say it’s stupid. 
 

Not every little stupid thing that happens or that people get in a twist over roses to the level of the battle between liberty and government. Very few do. In fact if you would actually read my post you would’ve seen where I pointed out how stupid it is for conservatives to be bitching about this because they have been the driving force for banning books for over 150 years now. Usually for nebulous moral reasons, bad language, or just puritanical animus to anything not “Christian” however the aggrieved party chose to define it. And I ALAWAYS called that stupid too.

[Amentep]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

Yes because of a report that highlights ostensibly what the books represent 

The report is not written in good faith as I mentioned earlier with the example of " only white characters " in a book written by a white person 

So because a report isn't in good faith, it changes whether racial caricatures are racist or not?

15 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

What I DID suspect was a whole lot of nothing when it comes to “offensive images” in a children’s book. If they were so goddamn bad why was it impossible to find them on Google. None of the news stories were saying what they were or WHY they were bad.

The article I read not only described some of them, but I found it fairly easy to find images from most of the books online by just looking for the name of the book and "offensive images".  YMMV.

But the story continues...

Outrage as eBay REMOVES listings for canceled Dr Seuss books 'because they glorify violence' but allows copies of Mein Kampf and Louis Farrakhan's books to be sold

Yeah, yeah, daily mail, blah, blah.

[Guard Dog]

Glorifying violence! LOL if that’s what they actually said they were even more clueless about the images than I was!

[Malcador]

"Ebay on Thursday started removing listings for the six Dr Seuss books that are no longer going to be produced. They emailed people who had listed the books, saying that the post violated their 'offensive materials policy'. "

Huh, doesn't really mesh with the headline.  Nor do the screenshots from the eBay emails, that's the Mail I suppose.  Time to go watch some people impotently wring their hands about 'cultural marxism'.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Malcador

[Amentep]

Yeah, I got a chuckle over the headline disconnect as well. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Are the headline disconnects because they believe most of their audience won't read past a headline?

[Amentep]

14 minutes ago, KaineParker said:

Are the headline disconnects because they believe most of their audience won't read past a headline?

Its the Daily Mail, so I give a tentative...yes.   Although it might also just be the tabloid equivalent of click bait.

[Malcador]

23 minutes ago, KaineParker said:

Are the headline disconnects because they believe most of their audience won't read past a headline?

Well to be fair to the Mail's audience (Sun readers too ashamed to publicly gawk at knockers), that is a very common thing. 

[Gromnir]

3 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

First off that little quip was a facetious comment not intended to be taken seriously. I do that fairly often. Mock absurdity  with absurd comments. I did not and do not see anyone’s liberty being violated here.  It’s their license to do with as they please.
 

What I DID suspect was a whole lot of nothing when it comes to “offensive images” in a children’s book. If they were so goddamn bad why was it impossible to find them on Google. None of the news stories were saying what they were or WHY they were bad. And I am preprogrammed to suspect all outrage is false until demonstrated otherwise so therein lies the sarcasm. Well Gfted linked a story with a couple of the pics and I agreed they were “very 1930’s” and not good for children’s books. 
 

I do not see any positional disconnect here. Heck even a few months ago I posted an article about a school district in Massachusetts somewhere “banning” books (my words once again being facetious) in class. Well they were not exactly banning they were being taken off the reading list in favor of other things. Even in that instance I didn’t say what they were doing was wrong I said their reasoning was stupid. A stupid action can be done by a person in authority for a stupid reason without it being a violation of anyone’s rights. That does not mean we can’t point it out and say it’s stupid. 
 

Not every little stupid thing that happens or that people get in a twist over roses to the level of the battle between liberty and government. Very few do. In fact if you would actually read my post you would’ve seen where I pointed out how stupid it is for conservatives to be bitching about this because they have been the driving force for banning books for over 150 years now. Usually for nebulous moral reasons, bad language, or just puritanical animus to anything not “Christian” however the aggrieved party chose to define it. And I ALAWAYS called that stupid too.

your outrage becomes mock just as soon as you find out you were wrong... or if you is pushed a bit. welcome to groundhog day for Gromnir; been there and seen that. wanna do the biden thing... again? 

your outrage over The Government, or any authority, attempting to interfere with personal use and enjoyment o' property rights has not, in the past, been jokes. you has said you were quite serious that you would Kill peace officers directed to take your rusty old chainsaw even if such action were legal under the US Constitution takings clause. matter of principal.  so you got a private publisher and they wanna retire their chainsaw to the toolshed, but gd is outraged 'cause he hasn't bothered to consider the solutions and ramifications. is a seuss estate chainsaw and only way to prevent a private individual from retiring their chainsaw is to take it. 

and yeah, a few months ago you were also wrong. weren't The Government banning books as you suspected based on alt-right radio info. as we noted at that time you didn't bother to check sources. is Gromnir who informed you it weren't banning. 

you will eventual realize how untenable and conflicting is a few o' your positions is if you engage in a bit o' self reflection. you will recognize just how tidal is your mocking and how such ends just the second you is questioned. groundhog day... again.

HA! Good Fun!

[Raithe]

[Hurlshort]

[Gorth]

Beijing has decided that pretending is just too much work. If there was any doubt before that the two systems one country idea had failed, it's now official. Taiwan... you need more guns! (and Australia too probably)
 

NPC vice-chairman Wang Chen: "risks in the system" needed to be removed to ensure "patriots" were in charge.

Short version, the members of the National Peoples Congress will in the future be appointed, no longer elected.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-56264117

 

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, Gorth said:

Beijing has decided that pretending is just too much work. If there was any doubt before that the two systems one country idea had failed, it's now official. Taiwan... you need more guns! (and Australia too probably)
 

NPC vice-chairman Wang Chen: "risks in the system" needed to be removed to ensure "patriots" were in charge.

Short version, the members of the National Peoples Congress will in the future be appointed, no longer elected.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-56264117

 

Im surprised you ever thought their would be any other outcome but the destruction of the Democratic system in HK by China?

As I have said on numerous occasions  the CCP considers  things like freedom of speech and a Democratic election as anathema to their entire existence. But this only applies to territories   they control so they wont try to apply their flawed policies and ideology on Oz as its a sovereign country ....so no need to worry Gorthfuscious ...at least no need to worry unless your government acquiesces to Chinese control which is highly unlikely?

But yes its a sad for the future of the people of HK because now China will decide who represents HK in their elections 

 

[Gorth]

39 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Im surprised you ever thought their would be any other outcome but the destruction of the Democratic system in HK by China?

As I have said on numerous occasions  the CCP considers  things like freedom of speech and a Democratic election as anathema to their entire existence. But this only applies to territories   they control so they wont try to apply their flawed policies and ideology on Oz as its a sovereign country ....so no need to worry Gorthfuscious ...at least no need to worry unless your government acquiesces to Chinese control which is highly unlikely?

But yes its a sad for the future of the people of HK because now China will decide who represents HK in their elections 

 

Well, that's part of the problem. Because the CCP doesn't consider its current territory "sufficient". They are currently not only trying to expropriate the entire sea down to Papua New Guinea, but are constructing military bases in the waters around Torrent Strait. Basically Autralias own "backyard". It would be the equivalent of the CCP setting up military bases on some of the smaller Caribbean Islands to support future territorial claims against The US and Mexico for example. Nobody believes that their "fishery endeavour" is anything but a pretense for constructing a naval base. Like the old Soviet aircraft carrier that was supposed to be a floating casino... right. They lie with a smile on their face.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-16/china-fishery-fears-for-torres-strait-islanders/12988998

 

Never mind that they are currently busy trespassing into Antarctica, setting up bases there (including in the internationally recognized as Australia's slice of Antarctica)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-30/china-in-antarctica-inspection-regime/10858486?nw=0

 

Edit: So no, The CCP is not a potential future threat, a few decades out in the horizon, but a very real and very immediate threat to Australia.