Politics US Edition (2021!)

[Skarpen]

4 hours ago, ComradeMaster said:

We need a maximum wage.  12 million a year, 1 million per month.

If you can't survive off of that, something is very wrong.

This will do very little as not that many rich people actually earn their wealth through wage.

[BruceVC]

4 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

This will do very little as not that many rich people actually earn their wealth through wage.

 

15 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Uff!

That was a joke. The picture is "Q", an omnipotent being from the Star Trek universe.

Q as leader of his Anons you know. 

Okay, sorry I didnt get it. Now that you have explained what Gorthfuscious meant  it is clever and funny

I dont get much humor on the Internet unless its obvious 

4 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

This will do very little as not that many rich people actually earn their wealth through wage.

I must correct you, no rich person has gained or sustained their wealth on wages alone.

And even if  we will naturally disagree on the definition of "being rich " I still have  never seen this 

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, Skarpen said:

This will do very little as not that many rich people actually earn their wealth through wage.

That is correct.

A steeper progressive inheritance tax, higher tax on income from capital/investment and a small tax on financial transactions should do the trick. I also wouldn't oppose luxury tax (expensive watches, jewelry, second car etc) and property taxes. Everything with certain thresholds of course.

And before people start to scream "that's socialism" or "but the middle class!" and nonsense like that: Last time I checked our personal household income was among the top 5% of Germany. Since Corona it dropped a bit because I spend a lot of time with homeschooling my 3 kids (and since I'm self employed...). But still top 10% - zero doubt. And those kinds of taxes would barely touch us! The top 1% are so far away for me I might as well live in a tent - the difference in wealth would basically be the same. And the little those taxes would touch me: I'd be happy to earn a bit less from my fancy fonds and stocks I bought for retirement etc.. My kids still won't go to bed hungry and I could still buy the latest crap from Amazon whenever I wanted to.  

Edited January 23, 2021 by Boeroer

[Gromnir]

6 hours ago, Achilles said:

 

Anyway, to piggy back off of the comment @Gromnir made, thank goodness I don't hear libertarians trying to pull that "flat tax" bull**** anymore

if by "anymore" you mean in the last few months, then you are correct.  am admitted curious to see what happens when/if the two most vocal obsidian proponents o' flat tax read your comments.

HA! Good Fun!

[Gfted1]

Inheritance tax just rubs me the wrong way. Taxes were already paid the first time on the property / wages, so it just seems like double dipping to tax the "inheritance" again just because it changed people.

[Gromnir]

is like groundhog day... again.

and on the funny/not funny edge o' the political maelstrom,

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/375?q={"search"%3A["boebert"]}&s=7&r=11

will be interesting to see who co-sponsors.

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

[Boeroer]

39 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Inheritance tax just rubs me the wrong way. Taxes were already paid the first time on the property / wages, so it just seems like double dipping to tax the "inheritance" again just because it changed people.

Maybe, but as I said there should be thresholds (I wouldn't want to tax a home which you plan to live in - for example). One should also check if inheriting a company and having to play a lot of taxes would mean you would have to close the company. That would be counterproductive. Stuff like that. It may be tricky but I think it's doable.

You have to prevent wealth from working like a black hole that draws in more and more money and drains it from the people and the economy. Unfortunately wealth will automatically behave like this because of our financial system which uses loans with interests - where you can gain more money by just having money. Income without any work. Inheritance tax is a way to split a bit off of that black hole at least every once I a while. Maybe it isn't necessary with the right amount of property tax though. That could be. Property tax is tricky as well. But I think that one's doable and beneficial if done right, too.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Boeroer

[Gfted1]

According to Google, the US uses two different estate tax systems. Theres a flat 40% applied by the Federal government, but thats only applicable above 11.5M / person. Then theres 18 states that use a mixture of estate and inheritance taxes, some as low as 1M. We can argue that most people, including myself, will never be subject to those taxes, but that doesnt change the fact that taxes were already paid annually on properties and wages. Increase the initial taxes on property and wages, sure. But to double tax, even though only the wealthy will be affected, bugs me.

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Gfted1 said:

Inheritance tax just rubs me the wrong way. Taxes were already paid the first time on the property / wages, so it just seems like double dipping to tax the "inheritance" again just because it changed people.

Gfted1 I seriously think you should run for president, I would vote for you

Inheritance Tax has got to be one of the immoral and unethical taxes in existence, in SA thank goodness we have fought off most attempts of government to take more money from bereaving families so we basically just have an estate tax

https://www.sashares.co.za/inheritance-tax-south-africa/#gs.rh2y1r

It should be outlawed globally because it just demonstrates insensitivity and avarice from any government wanting to enforce it and " how much you must pay when your parents or other siblings die "

Im surprised more people on this forum arent outraged by it ?

Edited January 23, 2021 by BruceVC

[Gfted1]

9 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Gfted1 I seriously think you should run for president, I would vote for you

 

If that ever happened then:

 

[Skarpen]

1 hour ago, Gfted1 said:

Inheritance tax just rubs me the wrong way. Taxes were already paid the first time on the property / wages, so it just seems like double dipping to tax the "inheritance" again just because it changed people.

Inheritance tax is just plain evil. Basically people in favor of this are advocating for the government to prey on the people who just lost somebody close to them (parents, grandparents etc.). Also the money, property, wealth a person gathered before death was taxed, bought and paid for. I know some people are jealous that someone else parents got their **** together and actually accomplished something to leave to their children, but we cannot create laws based in jealousy.

  

5 hours ago, BruceVC said:

I must correct you, no rich person has gained or sustained their wealth on wages alone.

And even if  we will naturally disagree on the definition of "being rich " I still have  never seen this 

Well after you pass a certain threshold of income you naturally start to make some investments and diversify your income with it. So yeah virtually no one make the big bucks on wage alone, but people can be started on the path by the big paychecks.

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Skarpen

[Gromnir]

cut taxes on the rich and create multi trillions o' dollars in ubi simultaneous. yeah, that makes sense.

*insert eye roll gif*

@Hurlshot mentioned bill gates when taxes were the topic dujour in past months. 

Bill Gates Urges Lawmakers To Raise Taxes On America’s Billionaires

am recommending the following:

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/922041.Wealth_and_Our_Commonwealth

is bill gates senior and is 2004, but is relevant as much today as it were when written. 

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

12 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

Inheritance tax is just plain evil. Basically people in favor of this are advocating for the government to prey on the people who just lost somebody close to them (parents, grandparents etc.). Also the money, property, wealth a person gathered before death was taxed, bought and paid for. I know some people are jealous that someone else parents got their **** together and actually accomplished something to leave to their children, but we cannot create laws based in jealousy.

  

 

 

This is a good post and echoes some of  my personal experience and some of the generational legal battles my family in SA and the UK have had with government around this unreasonable tax 

Edited January 23, 2021 by BruceVC

[Gfted1]

1 hour ago, Gfted1 said:

Increase the initial taxes on property and wages, sure.

 

9 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

cut taxes on the rich and create multi trillions o' dollars in ubi simultaneous. yeah, that makes sense.

 

9 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

*insert eye roll gif*

This stuff writes itself! 

[Skarpen]

16 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

cut taxes on the rich and create multi trillions o' dollars in ubi simultaneous. yeah, that makes sense.

*insert eye roll gif*

@Hurlshot mentioned bill gates when taxes were the topic dujour in past months. 

Bill Gates Urges Lawmakers To Raise Taxes On America’s Billionaires

am recommending the following:

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/922041.Wealth_and_Our_Commonwealth

is bill gates senior and is 2004, but is relevant as much today as it were when written. 

HA! Good Fun!

Quick question, where is Bill Gates and Microsoft taxes residency? I'm pretty sure it's not in US.

[Maedhros]

It's not really a double taxation, the same person doesn't pay it twice - being dead and all. From a reciever's point of view - everything you earn should be taxed. Including the money you earn from your dead family members. (Edit: I guess recieve is a better word than earn here. You don't really earn your inheritance money. All the more reason to tax it, imo).

Edited January 23, 2021 by Maedhros

[Guard Dog]

12 hours ago, ComradeMaster said:

We need a maximum wage.  12 million a year, 1 million per month.

If you can't survive off of that, something is very wrong.

I know a lot of sports teams that would be tickled to death with that arrangement. Like all of them. Except the WNBA

[Gromnir]

sigh

is same folks making same comments ad nauseum. groundhog day all over again. the rich and sooper rich is not making the bulk o' their money from wages and income. is a reason we keep talking capital gains. duh. don't know how many times we need repeat self. we could relink a dozen or so posts. also, there is no fed property tax, and state property tax is frequent a deduction on fed taxes. increase property tax affects ubi not at all 'cause is freaking state/local. again, duh.

want multi trillion ubi while further cutting taxes on ultra wealthy. brilliant.as you say, stuff writes itself.

hurl needs to work more on education.

and for skarp_One, bill gates is most definitely taxed in the US and washington state... washington state which has no state income tax btw.

the US has a system which allows for folks such as bezos and gates to amass mind boggling fortunes which would be improbable anywhere else. pass along wealth to next generation does not encourage the next generation to work as hard and given that a large part o' the reason for such fortunes being amassed is the American system, the American system is entitled to a cut once the rich person is dead so as to make possible for more gates and bezos in the next generation.

HA! Good Fun! 

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Gromnir

[Guard Dog]

I have been a fan of flat tax. And it would apply to all individual income. No exceptions, no deductions, whatever you earn be at $100 a year or $100 million. tax is theft. No, do not freaking get started, it is theft. It’s money taken by force. If that isn’t theft call Websters. At least a flat tax would be equitable. But clearly flat tax or anything other than progressive tax is a nonstarter. We’re just not going to do it. So IDGAF anymore. One thing I would like is some consistency. Tell me what the rules are and then I’ll work out how to minimize my exposure to it. 
 

I really don’t care what Biden and Company are going to do going forward. My income is nothing to brag about. I’m a state employee on the second lowest rung of the pay scale. I probably earn less per year in income than most of you. The assets I have are generally exempted from taxation or texted a greatly reduced rate  because of state rules and some federal rules. With the exception of my home of course. So my federal and State tax burden is as low as I can possibly make it. And you can’t fault anybody for doing likewise. If you love the government and the social contract so much there’s nothing stopping you from writing extra checks. Go ahead and send the IRS a check for $100 right now. They’ll cash it they won’t even ask why.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Guard Dog
When ever I use speech to text it doubles my text for some reason

[Gromnir]

These Billionaires Want The Ultra-Wealthy To Pay More In Taxes

we mentioned earlier how it is the ordinary and sadly uneducated americans who balk at higher taxes for the rich.  current income tax rate for states and fed combined = over 50% in many states, but as you can observe from the luntz link, americans see anything over 50% as unfair and most think that 50% would be an increase.

the immediate fixable stuff is not unknown: hedge fund exception, inheritance tax and capital gains. is a reason why buffett, benioff, gates and others is all appearing to plagiarize each other when speaking 'bout taxes. yeah, there needs be a small carve out for ranchers and farmers insofar as inheritance. pre trump, there were 'bout 80 farmers/ranchers per year being affected by inheritance tax in ways unlikely to have been foreseen/contemplated. 

flat tax o' 15% as some had suggested is absolute nutz. would increase taxes on poorest and lower taxes on richest. wtf?

and no, taxation is not theft. basic social contract stuff. again, am blaming hurlshot.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Gromnir

[Guard Dog]

5 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

 

flat tax o' 15% as some had suggested is absolute nutz. would increase taxes on poorest and lower taxes on richest. wtf?

and no, taxation is not theft. basic social contract stuff. again, am blaming hurlshot.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Everyone who benefits from “society“ and the “social contract“ should participate in its upkeep. Like I said it’s equitable. But it doesn’t matter. We’re not going to do it so it’s irrelevant to discuss it.

you can’t blame Hurlshot for my opinions. But you can blame Milton Friedman, Sowell, Williams, and Hayek. Most of my nutz ideas came from life experience, long hours of contemplation over fine bourbon while watching the stars from my porch, and of course the books I’ve read.

[Hurlshort]

Man, I don't even teach Gov & Econ.  

[Gromnir]

23 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

Man, I don't even teach Gov & Econ.  

am not a marxist, but am attempting to consider how to teach history w/o addressing basic economics, and failing.  for a world history class we could devote 50% of a  jr. high/high school semester to the inclosure acts alone. however, can't imagine doing so w/o some fundamental economics. 'course we have mentioned all too frequent how we believe history is taught all wrong in US public schools. 

we might give hurl some slack if he were a music teacher. maybe. in ca nowadays you folks is s'posed to take a holistic approach, no? even the music teacher, in the few schools still teaching music, would cover relevant history as hurl would address relevant music. 

as to gd, we can't blame friedman or sowell for not letting you know how rich people is actual taxed in the US. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps we did not spell inclosure wrong. am also kinda joking about hurl responsibility. kinda. serious though, am believing what looks like a scattergun approach to teach the significance o' as many relevant persons and events as sooperhumanly possible in a semester is just broken.

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Gromnir

[ComradeYellow]

Biden Doubles Down on Amnesty (msn.com)

LOL @ alt right types who thought Biden would deport immigrants without the "Eye of Sauron" mainstream media scrutinizing him.

[Boeroer]

5 hours ago, Skarpen said:

Inheritance tax is just plain evil. Basically people in favor of this are advocating for the government to prey on the people who just lost somebody close to them (parents, grandparents etc.). Also the money, property, wealth a person gathered before death was taxed, bought and paid for. I know some people are jealous that someone else parents got their **** together and actually accomplished something to leave to their children, but we cannot create laws based in jealousy.

Completely ignoring the word "threshold". 

 

5 hours ago, Skarpen said:

So yeah virtually no one make the big bucks on wage alone, but people can be started on the path by the big paychecks.

 

The problem aren't people who start "on the path" with big paychecks. It's the people who get dropped right at the finish line by inheriting huge fortunes. At the extreme it's like feudalism where it's impossible to improve your quality of life at some point because your social ranks become cemented. Poor, brilliant people will stay poor and uneducated while rich, stupid douches and their decendants will stay rich. The total opposite of meritocraty and "working your way up".
Capitalism without the proper amount of redistribution leads to disruption, imbalance and finally a collapse of the system. Naturally those who profit most will always oppose changes and will make something up like the trickle-down nonsense - but they are also complaining the most when they can't get out of their guarded compounds anymore or finally get clubbed to death by a starving mob. And the funny thing is that 75% of society are led to believe they are the ones profiting (or at the brink of doing so) while actually it's the top 10% if not even less. 
 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Boeroer