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Coronavirus Goes Fourth


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1 hour ago, Azdeus said:

It's about a month old, but 73% of the dead in covid were living in retirement homes or recieved care at home. The Health and Social care inspectors has been pretty damning in how retirement homes and nursing companies has handled the pandemic, about 20% of people that had some sort of symptom didn't even get an check from a doctor, and most other cases the staff spoke to a doctor on the phone.

I think it may depend on the facility. My Dad's living in an assisted living complex and they have been exceptionally careful in their response. People are only supposed to visit for medical reasons, and they set up specific events for meetings with family members. They've only had one confirmed case in a staff member. He's signed up for an early vaccination there, so I'm happy about that.

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8 hours ago, Azdeus said:

Getting herd immunity never was part of the strategy, though you're correct about the other part. It was always about waiting for a vaccine, which could be years away, and people won't follow really strict measures for that long, so they chose the methods that people would follow along with for a really long time to keep the hospitals from overflowing, like they've started to do now again since people didn't give a **** about pandemic restrictions when there was shopping to be done. People really had been crowding each other alot for months in stores and such, but it just kept getting worse and worse. They just now started recommending people use masks if they're taking public transports.

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/ny-statistik-over-3000-doda-i-covid-19-fran-aldreboenden

It's about a month old, but 73% of the dead in covid were living in retirement homes or recieved care at home. The Health and Social care inspectors has been pretty damning in how retirement homes and nursing companies has handled the pandemic, about 20% of people that had some sort of symptom didn't even get an check from a doctor, and most other cases the staff spoke to a doctor on the phone.

Here are the official Covid numbers if anyone wants them;

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa/page/page_0//

Thanks for sharing, so do you feel the real failure in Sweden is more from citizens not adhering to best practice virus measures?

If so that is common unfortunately  in many countries, in SA we have mostly a failure of our public health department with its lack of resources and inconsistently in our own Corona policies. 

So our devastating " first\second " wave is 15 % citizens and 85 % failure of the health department  

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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14 hours ago, rjshae said:

I think it may depend on the facility. My Dad's living in an assisted living complex and they have been exceptionally careful in their response. People are only supposed to visit for medical reasons, and they set up specific events for meetings with family members. They've only had one confirmed case in a staff member. He's signed up for an early vaccination there, so I'm happy about that.

That's good stuff. People in nursing homes here first didn't have access to protective equipment and second wen't to work with symptoms. Many also aren't allowed to stop family members from just going in and once there is a spread in the facility some haven't even quarantined the people that are sick.

6 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Thanks for sharing, so do you feel the real failure in Sweden is more from citizens not adhering to best practice virus measures?

If so that is common unfortunately  in many countries, in SA we have mostly a failure of our public health department with its lack of resources and inconsistently in our own Corona policies. 

So our devastating " first\second " wave is 15 % citizens and 85 % failure of the health department  

It is absolutely the peoples fault, they didn't follow the guidelines then, and don't really do it now either. I lost count on how many times I've had to ask people to keep their distance when I had to go to stores and such. The Swedish healthcare system also had a really bad drought of equipment in the early days since they decided to not keep any stock of items at all, but to rather go with a more modern "just in time" system of constant supplies of just enough stuff coming in.

Edit; Not to mention a ****load of retarded bureaucrazy. Healthcare workers were offered gasmasks from the Swedish army, that were NBC rated. But because they were made before we had CE markings they denied using them...

Edited by Azdeus
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Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken

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I know it's not a race between countries, who can stick a needle in as many people in as short as time as possible, but some interesting trends still showing up. I guess it shows which countries has its citizens as its first priority?

Also, seriously, wth France? this is inefficiency at its worst or what???

"In the first three days of its vaccination campaign, which launched on 27 December, France inoculated fewer than 100 people. In comparison, Germany had given more than 130,000 vaccines by the end of December. "

 

 

Graph showing vaccine doses administered

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-55514243

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Gorth said:

I know it's not a race between countries, who can stick a needle in as many people in as short as time as possible, but some interesting trends still showing up. I guess it shows which countries has its citizens as its first priority?

Also, seriously, wth France? this is inefficiency at its worst or what???

"In the first three days of its vaccination campaign, which launched on 27 December, France inoculated fewer than 100 people. In comparison, Germany had given more than 130,000 vaccines by the end of December. "

 

 

Graph showing vaccine doses administered

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-55514243

 

 

 

Interesting statistics and current vaccine deployment outcomes Gorthfuscious , I think its too early to be unnecessarily critical of how countries are rolling out the vaccines.....hey at least some countries have vaccines or they arriving in the next 1-2  months ? That would be huge progress in SA

Also thanks for sharing that link, I think links are the best way we can corroborate any information around such an important topic as this virus especially with all the misinformation and alternative facts doing the rounds 

:thumbsup:

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Well, maybe if they made it a race between countries, some people would be more willing to take one for the team?

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23 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Maybe this new 'study' will help people get over their fears 😋

Well, Pfizer used to be best known for Viagra 😂

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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Hilarity ensued last week.

As I've posted before, the first round of mass Corona testing was a complete disaster for our government, so they discussed incentives at first and then went with a second round of mass testing where you'd get an Aryan certificate negative test result that would allow you to leave the lockdown a week earlier, while people who refused to participate would be locked away for a week longer. Unless you were found to be a Jew positive, in which case you'd be quarantined for another 10 days, instead of a week if you simply didn't show up (does that make sense to you? Sure doesn't to me).

The necessary amendment to the epidemiologic legal framework was published on December 31st, 2020, with a request for comment period until January 3rd. That means not a single work day (January 1st is a public holiday here) time for the parliament (National Council) and the public to read the proposal and comment on it. Oh, right, and also the web server where the proposal was hosted died immediately after publishing due to the "unexpected" amount of traffic.

The amendment was so bad that even the Ministry of Justice issued a scathing comment just yesterday. The Federal Council already stated that they plan to refuse to approve the amendment, which means it will be held up for at least eight weeks (until a majority vote in the National Council can still pass the law).

So now everyone is under lockdown until January 25th, instead of January 18th with an Aryan certificate negative test result.

Well at least our glorious leader can now play the victim and tell everyone that he wanted the lockdown to end earlier, but it was simply not possible because democracy of the opposition in the Federal Council.

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We all have signed the pacts, we knew so well nothing was left
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Whelp I just dodged a bullet.

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we got the flu... think we have the flu. symptoms: muscle aches, runny nose, head congestion, sore throat. have had a slight fever at times over the past 24 hours, but were in the sub 100F range. no coughing. no shortness o' breath. no loss of smell or taste. nevertheless, we thought it were prudent to get a covid test as am aware covid symptoms is hardly universal. 

january 7. 

unless we wanna drive more than 50 miles, earliest we can get tested at any area location testing site is january 7. 7:00pm on january 7.

have been informed that the response time for covid test results is current 3 days.

to be safe, am self quarantining, but is likely we will not know results o' our covid test until seven or eight days following our initial symptoms?

HA! Good Fun!

ps we got a flu shot in early october. for many months have been active avoiding any indoor situation where we might come into contact with people, but last week our pharmacist called us and said we should get a shingles vaccination, 'cause am now old enough for that to be a thing. went to get shingles shot on new years eve day but 'cause of an administrative snafu, we did not actual get vaccinated. days later we got flu. go figure.

 

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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33 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

ps we got a flu shot in early october. for many months have been active avoiding any indoor situation where we might come into contact with people, but last week our pharmacist called us and said we should get a shingles vaccination, 'cause am now old enough for that to be a thing. went to get shingles shot on new years eve day but 'cause of an administrative snafu, we did not actual get vaccinated. days later we got flu. go figure.

Ah those dang doctors creating a bit more work for themselves... so that's how it works 😝

 

On a serious note, hope you're Ok Gromnir and it's "just" a flu. As if that's not bad enough at times. All the best mate 🍀

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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45 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

we got the flu... think we have the flu. symptoms: muscle aches, runny nose, head congestion, sore throat. have had a slight fever at times over the past 24 hours, but were in the sub 100F range. no coughing. no shortness o' breath. no loss of smell or taste. nevertheless, we thought it were prudent to get a covid test as am aware covid symptoms is hardly universal. 

january 7. 

unless we wanna drive more than 50 miles, earliest we can get tested at any area location testing site is january 7. 7:00pm on january 7.

have been informed that the response time for covid test results is current 3 days.

to be safe, am self quarantining, but is likely we will not know results o' our covid test until seven or eight days following our initial symptoms?

HA! Good Fun!

ps we got a flu shot in early october. for many months have been active avoiding any indoor situation where we might come into contact with people, but last week our pharmacist called us and said we should get a shingles vaccination, 'cause am now old enough for that to be a thing. went to get shingles shot on new years eve day but 'cause of an administrative snafu, we did not actual get vaccinated. days later we got flu. go figure.

 

I am sure you will be fine either way but let us know what the result is and my thoughts are with you 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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4 hours ago, majestic said:

Hilarity ensued last week.

As I've posted before, the first round of mass Corona testing was a complete disaster for our government, so they discussed incentives at first and then went with a second round of mass testing where you'd get an Aryan certificate negative test result that would allow you to leave the lockdown a week earlier, while people who refused to participate would be locked away for a week longer. Unless you were found to be a Jew positive, in which case you'd be quarantined for another 10 days, instead of a week if you simply didn't show up (does that make sense to you? Sure doesn't to me).

The necessary amendment to the epidemiologic legal framework was published on December 31st, 2020, with a request for comment period until January 3rd. That means not a single work day (January 1st is a public holiday here) time for the parliament (National Council) and the public to read the proposal and comment on it. Oh, right, and also the web server where the proposal was hosted died immediately after publishing due to the "unexpected" amount of traffic.

The amendment was so bad that even the Ministry of Justice issued a scathing comment just yesterday. The Federal Council already stated that they plan to refuse to approve the amendment, which means it will be held up for at least eight weeks (until a majority vote in the National Council can still pass the law).

So now everyone is under lockdown until January 25th, instead of January 18th with an Aryan certificate negative test result.

Well at least our glorious leader can now play the victim and tell everyone that he wanted the lockdown to end earlier, but it was simply not possible because democracy of the opposition in the Federal Council.

Austria must be  one of the few countries where many citizens seem to think mass testing, which is a proven and known strategy to understand virus spread, is a bad idea.

What exactly do you suggest your government should be to understand the virus in your country as you have made it patently clear you are opposed to mass testing?

And just to answer your question, yes the Austrian approach makes perfect sense to me 

Edited by BruceVC

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Austria must be  one of the few countries where many citizens seem to think mass testing, which is a proven and known strategy to understand virus spread, is a bad idea.

What exactly do you suggest your government should be to understand the virus in your country as you have made it patently clear you are opposed to mass testing?

And just to answer your question, yes the Austrian approach makes perfect sense to me 

I think you misunderstand. We're not talking about regular testing here, that's been going on for as long as the tests were available, just like everywhere else.

We're talking about Slovakian style weekend mass testing where the entire population of the county is supposed to show up to be tested. Millions of people... in two days, concentrated around public testing sites.

Are you beginning to see the issue now?

Going to the testing site exposes me to more potentially infected people than I had contact with in the past three months combined. It's ludicrous - and I'm just sitting in a 'burb where a maximum of six thousand people are to be tested, and I can walk to the test site (it's two minutes away, on foot). It's way worse for the metropolitan areas where you have hundreds of thousands of people who would need to take public transportation to reach the test sites. Because let's face it, there is no way you can get a parking lot anywhere near the testing sites.

Does being crammed into the subway, tram lines and busses with thousands of others trying to get a test sound like a good idea to you?

It also failed spectacularily in Slovakia from what I understand. A week after the testing new infections just exploded. People brought a gift back home from going to the testing sites, everyone with a negative test thought they're safe and ignored distancing rules, etc., after the incubation period it turned out to be a disaster.

And our government? Hops right on the bandwagon. Because never let it be said that we don't try things that already didn't work, against the better judgement and advice of actual experts, and  someone needs to receive their kickbacks commission for selling lots of test kits (however, seeing how incredibly dumb our government is, I can get behind the idea that they'd be talked into buying millions of test kits from Roche without anyone ever receiving kickbacks for it).

Plus the amendment was really bad in some other ways too. It stated that in order to be allowed to partake in touristic activities (i.e. skiing at the moment, or going to the restaurant) you'd need to present an Aryan certificate negative PCR test no older than five days.

Five days. The upper end of the regular incubation period. "Coincidentally" the minimum amount of time you need to spend in isolation after exposure until you can get yourself tested.

Finally though, even though I really don't have much of an anti-authoritarian streak, honestly... being forced to have a q-tip jammed up my nose even though there are less invasive alternatives that could have been used because our glorios Wannabe-Dollfuß wants to be seen as doing something to stop the spread of the virus? Thanks, but no thanks. Keep your PR events. I'll just stay at home longer. :p

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We all have signed the pacts, we knew so well nothing was left
We are being born at the sound of ends, and yes we still believe in beauty
It used to be the pride of Man, now a flame put out by the cold in his hand

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18 minutes ago, majestic said:

I think you misunderstand. We're not talking about regular testing here, that's been going on for as long as the tests were available, just like everywhere else.

We're talking about Slovakian style weekend mass testing where the entire population of the county is supposed to show up to be tested. Millions of people... in two days, concentrated around public testing sites.

Are you beginning to see the issue now?

Going to the testing site exposes me to more potentially infected people than I had contact with in the past three months combined. It's ludicrous - and I'm just sitting in a 'burb where a maximum of six thousand people are to be tested, and I can walk to the test site (it's two minutes away, on foot). It's way worse for the metropolitan areas where you have hundreds of thousands of people who would need to take public transportation to reach the test sites. Because let's face it, there is no way you can get a parking lot anywhere near the testing sites.

Does being crammed into the subway, tram lines and busses with thousands of others trying to get a test sound like a good idea to you?

It also failed spectacularily in Slovakia from what I understand. A week after the testing new infections just exploded. People brought a gift back home from going to the testing sites, everyone with a negative test thought they're safe and ignored distancing rules, etc., after the incubation period it turned out to be a disaster.

And our government? Hops right on the bandwagon. Because never let it be said that we don't try things that already didn't work, against the better judgement and advice of actual experts, and  someone needs to receive their kickbacks commission for selling lots of test kits (however, seeing how incredibly dumb our government is, I can get behind the idea that they'd be talked into buying millions of test kits from Roche without anyone ever receiving kickbacks for it).

Plus the amendment was really bad in some other ways too. It stated that in order to be allowed to partake in touristic activities (i.e. skiing at the moment, or going to the restaurant) you'd need to present an Aryan certificate negative PCR test no older than five days.

Five days. The upper end of the regular incubation period. "Coincidentally" the minimum amount of time you need to spend in isolation after exposure until you can get yourself tested.

Finally though, even though I really don't have much of an anti-authoritarian streak, honestly... being forced to have a q-tip jammed up my nose even though there are less invasive alternatives that could have been used because our glorios Wannabe-Dollfuß wants to be seen as doing something to stop the spread of the virus? Thanks, but no thanks. Keep your PR events. I'll just stay at home longer. :p

Im glad you clarified because  now I understand and agree with you. The suggestion that millions  citizens need to be somewhere within a short period of days and also expose themselves to the virus is nonsensical and very irresponsible of your government 

I would also refuse to be tested in this way, why cant you get tested at the local test center ? What is your governments issue with that approach, what is the official explanation?

Edited by BruceVC

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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21 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

I would also refuse to be tested in this way, why cant you get tested at the local test center ? What is your governments issue with that approach, what is the official explanation?

We can get tested whenver we feel like it. There are free testing sites available but you need to make an appointment and depending on the workload it can take a day or two to get one. Otherwise you can just buy antigen tests in your local pharmacy or to go one of the testing sites where you need to pay for your testing kit yourself. It's quick, easy and... well somewhat affordable, prices ranging from 20 to 120€ depending on what kind of test you want and how quickly you need the result.

There is no official explanation. They just came up with the idea of massive nation wide testing in December as a last ditch attempt to prevent a third hard lockdown from being necessary. This second attempt now? That's just the wounded pride and increasing frustration of our glorious leader faced with the rejection of the unwashed masses. Or such.

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We all have signed the pacts, we knew so well nothing was left
We are being born at the sound of ends, and yes we still believe in beauty
It used to be the pride of Man, now a flame put out by the cold in his hand

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...aaaand I got the virus. The first two days were hell I tell ya...HELL!

I couldn't sleep for two days because I had to wipe my nose every 5 minutes. 4 days in and I am starting to get better...a little. Still can't smell anything and the dry throat and the coughing continues. I just hope my dad doesn't get it. He is 71. :(

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Well we're going back into a firm national lockdown as opposed to regional tiered lockdowns in Merry Old England...

"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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18 minutes ago, Katphood said:

...aaaand I got the virus. The first two days were hell I tell ya...HELL!

I couldn't sleep for two days because I had to wipe my nose every 5 minutes. 4 days in and I am starting to get better...a little. Still can't smell anything and the dry throat and the coughing continues. I just hope my dad doesn't get it. He is 71. :(

Im glad you alright so far, keep us updated as things progress

 

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"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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2 hours ago, Katphood said:

...aaaand I got the virus. The first two days were hell I tell ya...HELL!

I couldn't sleep for two days because I had to wipe my nose every 5 minutes. 4 days in and I am starting to get better...a little. Still can't smell anything and the dry throat and the coughing continues. I just hope my dad doesn't get it. He is 71. :(

Hope you recover quickly and your dad never gets it.

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Today the complex's crew is coming for the mandatory annual check of the fire alarm, and I'm feeling a little paranoid. I mean, they have been to every other residence in the complex... and the air they exhale is going to be hanging in my place for hours. I'd slap open all the windows and ventilate the place, but it's like 40 F(***ing) degrees out. 🥶 Joy.

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"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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3 hours ago, Katphood said:

...aaaand I got the virus. The first two days were hell I tell ya...HELL!

I couldn't sleep for two days because I had to wipe my nose every 5 minutes. 4 days in and I am starting to get better...a little. Still can't smell anything and the dry throat and the coughing continues. I just hope my dad doesn't get it. He is 71. :(

You sick bastard!

 

Get well soon Katphood. And may your dad stay safe.

 

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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LA County Paramedics Told Not To Transport Some Patients With Low Chance Of Survival

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Paramedics in Southern California are being told to conserve oxygen and not to bring patients to the hospital who have little chance of survival as Los Angeles County grapples with a new wave of COVID-19 patients that is expected to get worse in the coming days.

Looks like they are going to rely on paramedics to do an early triage to take the load off the Doctors. Man that job is going to suck.

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"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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