Politics US Edition Volume II

[Raithe]

And then of course we have: AP News - Donal Trump Pardons 15, commutes 5 sentences, including GOP allies

President Donald Trump on Tuesday pardoned 15 people, including a pair of congressional Republicans who were strong and early supporters, a 2016 campaign official ensnared in the Russia probe and former government contractors convicted in a 2007 massacre in Baghdad.

Trump’s actions in his final weeks in office show a president who is wielding his executive power to reward loyalists and others who he believes have been wronged by a legal system he sees as biased against him and his allies. Trump issued the pardons — not an unusual act for an outgoing president — even as he refused to publicly acknowledge his election loss to Democrat Joe Biden, who will be sworn in on Jan. 20.

Trump is likely to issue more pardons before then. He and his allies have discussed a range of other possibilities, including members of Trump’s family and his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani.

Those pardoned on Tuesday included former Republican Reps. Duncan Hunter of California and Chris Collins of New York, two of the earliest GOP lawmakers to back Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign. Trump also commuted the sentences of five other people, including former Rep. Steve Stockman of Texas.

 

[Gfted1]

No pardon for Joe Exotic! Shameful.   

[Malcador]

I liked that faked tweet of him pardoning Cosby, because it is something he actually would do.

[rjshae]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

I liked that faked tweet of him pardoning Cosby, because it is something he actually would do.

Yes, I bet he'd like to do that just to irk more people. But Cosby was found guilty by the state of Pennsylvania.

[Malcador]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/23/trump-vetoes-740-billion-ndaa-defense-bill.html

"“Unfortunately, the Act fails to include critical national security measures, includes provisions that fail to respect our veterans and our military’s history, and contradicts efforts by my administration to put America first in our national security and foreign policy actions,” Trump wrote in a lengthy statement to Congress."

Sort of odd removing traitor generals from bases is getting his goat.

[BruceVC]

Trump has thrown the GOP under the bus by demanding the US stimulus is increased from $600 to $2000 per person 

Very mischievous and he leaves the GOP having to deliver on this much higher stimulus  

[Guard Dog]

Look at it on the bright side. At least Sudan get 700 million, Pakistan gets 10 million for gender studies, AIDS workers a broad get to buy brand new cars at taxpayer expense, and the office of budget analysis gets to have $1.5 million for a reception. Nothing like partying on the taxpayer dime. You guys wonder why I hate the f——-g government. I wonder why you don’t. When the unwashed ignorant plebeians start getting restless about the way their money is being squandered the sewer rats throw them a little bone. Here take your $600 and shut up.

Quote

Exhibit A: "Of the funds appropriated under title III of the Act that are made available for assistance for Pakistan, not less than $15,000,000 shall be made available for democracy programs and not less than $10,000,000 shall be made available for gender programs." Yep. $10 million. For gender programs. In Pakistan. 

Exhibit B: Funds for "Resource Study of Springfield (Illinois) Race Riot." That riot occurred in (checks notes) 1908. 

Exhibit C "Statement Of Policy Regarding The Succession Or Reincarnation Of The Dalai Lama." We'll just leave that one there. 

Exhibit D There's actually a commission tasked with educating “consumers about the dangers associated with using or storing portable fuel containers for flammable liquids near an open flame."  

Exhibit E: Another $40 million will be allocated "for the necessary expenses for the operation, maintenance and security" of The Kennedy Center, which received $25 million in another COVID-19 relief bill earlier this year. Also in a related story, the Kennedy Center has been closed. 

Exhibits F, G, H, I, J: $86 million for assistance to Cambodia; $130 million to Nepal, $135 million to Burma, $453 million to Ukraine, $700 million to Sudan. 

Exhibit K: The bill creates a Women's History Museum and an American Latino Museum as part of the Smithsonian. Overall, the Smithsonian gets (checks notes again) $1 billion.  Congress's 5,593-page porky 'relief' bill is essence of the swamp | TheHill

 

Now, take your $600 and stop questioning what your betters do with "their" money you dirty ignorant pesants. 

Never forget... your tax dollars that you worked to earn paidfor this:

Life at Pacific | The Original Shrimp on a Treadmill - YouTube

 

Oh, by the way, before anyone gets on their goddamned partisan high horse, both parties wrote and backed this BS bill. And while we're on the subject I'll just leave this here:  www.usdebtclock.org

In April of 1775 a militia of pissed off and resolute men started a war with the most powerful nation on earth over less. If we were even one quater the men they were the rats in DC would never even attempt this kind of bulls--t. 

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Guard Dog

[Amentep]

2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Never forget... your tax dollars that you worked to earn paidfor this:

Life at Pacific | The Original Shrimp on a Treadmill - YouTube

The video you linked indicates the treadmill in the video cost about $50 and was paid for out of the scientists pocket.

This article indicates about $1,000 of the grant they received went towards a second treadmill. The study was a part of a study looking at how shrimp, a widely consumed marine food, adjusted to environmental changes

[Gromnir]

5 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Trump has thrown the GOP under the bus by demanding the US stimulus is increased from $600 to $2000 per person 

Very mischievous and he leaves the GOP having to deliver on this much higher stimulus  

the question is, "why?"

who here believes trump gives a darn about economic suffering of americans, present or future?  so, the more vital and pertinent question is, how does this move benefit a soon-to-be ex-President? what is trump 'bout to do which he believes necessitates drumming up popular support? 

as @BruceVC observes, demand $2000 stimulus puts pressure on trump Congressional allies as 'posed to democrats. petty mischief and wanton vandalism is motivations enough for trump, but one would expect such to be directed at those he deems enemies. 

$2000 stimulus is not the goal.

eye on the ball.

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

1 minute ago, Gromnir said:

the question is, "why?"

who here believes trump gives a darn about economic suffering of americans, present or future?  so, the more vital and pertinent question is, how does this move benefit a soon-to-be ex-President? what is trump 'bout to do which he believes necessitates drumming up popular support? 

as @BruceVC observes, demand $2000 stimulus puts pressure on trump Congressional allies as 'posed to democrats. petty mischief and wanton vandalism is motivations enough for trump, but one would expect such to be directed at those he deems enemies. 

$2000 stimulus is not the goal.

eye on the ball.

HA! Good Fun!

I agree, I see this $2000 increase as firstly having nothing to do with Trump caring for most Americans but I see this as a  form of Trump lashing out at some of the  GOP for not standing by " the elections were a sham and my victory was stolen by the cheating Democrats " false narrative 

This would include Mitch McConnel, I feel sorry for McConnel as he now has to  face the wrath of a belligerent, impulsive, emotional and paranoid Trump would is going to continue to create as much reasonable problems for all the people after him ..on both sides

Like all these pardons he just gave 

[Guard Dog]

26 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

the question is, "why?"

who here believes trump gives a darn about economic suffering of americans, present or future?  so, the more vital and pertinent question is, how does this move benefit a soon-to-be ex-President? what is trump 'bout to do which he believes necessitates drumming up popular support? 

as @BruceVC observes, demand $2000 stimulus puts pressure on trump Congressional allies as 'posed to democrats. petty mischief and wanton vandalism is motivations enough for trump, but one would expect such to be directed at those he deems enemies. 

$2000 stimulus is not the goal.

eye on the ball.

HA! Good Fun!

Any idea what it can be? In 27 days he’s out of office and there is absolutely nothing anyone anywhere I can do about it. Whether or not he gets prosecuted for anything he did before after his term as president is not up to anybody that he can influence. This is a man with very little leverage over anyone. And he certainly isn’t going to get any this way. What do you think his endgame could be here? 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Guard Dog

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

the question is, "why?"

who here believes trump gives a darn about economic suffering of americans, present or future?  so, the more vital and pertinent question is, how does this move benefit a soon-to-be ex-President? what is trump 'bout to do which he believes necessitates drumming up popular support? 

as @BruceVC observes, demand $2000 stimulus puts pressure on trump Congressional allies as 'posed to democrats. petty mischief and wanton vandalism is motivations enough for trump, but one would expect such to be directed at those he deems enemies. 

$2000 stimulus is not the goal.

eye on the ball.

HA! Good Fun!

Argument that I heard and found convincing is that it makes life difficult for Mitch McConnell, who deserves payback after asking his caucus not to challenge the EC results.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

You guys wonder why I hate the f——-g government. I wonder why you don’t.

"Don't hate your enemies. It clouds your judgement"

Hate's all well and good, but I'd rather change something than sit on my ass and be mad at it.

Quote

Never forget... your tax dollars that you worked to earn paidfor this:

Life at Pacific | The Original Shrimp on a Treadmill - YouTube

From your link (emphasis mine):

This is the original video of a shrimp on a treadmill that became an Internet sensation and continues to serve as an example of fake news. Repeatedly cited as a waste of government spending, the treadmill was actually built from spare parts costing less than $50, paid out of researchers pockets — and it helped scientists examine the impact of ocean pollution on America's food safety.

 

[BruceVC]

3 hours ago, Amentep said:

The video you linked indicates the treadmill in the video cost about $50 and was paid for out of the scientists pocket.

This article indicates about $1,000 of the grant they received went towards a second treadmill. The study was a part of a study looking at how shrimp, a widely consumed marine food, adjusted to environmental changes

I love Shrimp, we dont want anything to happen to impact the availability of  that type  of seafood so these studies must continue 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I think Trump wants to be seen as the guy who got $2k in people's pockets going out the door when others wanted to settle for $600 in order to gild an otherwise horrible legacy. Biden will probably not get much done over the next few years, both because of Mitch's strategy and his own position as a centrist, so in the fairly likely event Trump runs again and we have some economic problems it's a good image to project.

[Guard Dog]

1 hour ago, Achilles said:

 

This is the original video of a shrimp on a treadmill that became an Internet sensation and continues to serve as an example of fake news. Repeatedly cited as a waste of government spending, the treadmill was actually built from spare parts costing less than $50, paid out of researchers pockets — and it helped scientists examine the impact of ocean pollution on America's food safety.

 

The treadmill bit was one small part of a $600k+ grant that was a squandered on a mostly irrelvant study. I do not give a f--k how economically important shrimp are. If studies like that need to be done they can be funded by interested parties. Not the taxpayer. 

This so called stimulus bill also set aside $2M to study whether or not hot tubs can reduce stress. Speaking of treadmills according to the WSJ it set aside $1.5M for a study on how quadiped reptile joints work and part of that will pay for THEIR treadmills so they can be 3D imaged while using them. You are a pragmatic guy. Does that sound like a good use of taxpayer dollars in a country that is $27T in debt AND dealing with record unemployment (meaning revenues are dropping as spending skyrockets)? We are one crisis away from hyperinflation of the dollar bur we just gave Tunisia $48M to help "disconnected youth" get internet access.  

I'd go sit in my hot tub to reduce my stress but I don't f-----g HAVE one because the DC Rats are giving away 28% of my salary every year. 

As far as changing the government rather than being mad at it, change it into what? A responsible economic manager? Which political party would that be? This bill was bi-fu---ng- partisan. That means we need to get rid of BOTH the Democrats AND the Republicans. Well, I'm trying to do just that by my voting habits. Which, I believe, several people have tryped a great deal of text expaining to me how I was wasting my vote that way. 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Guard Dog

[Zoraptor]

Most of the international stuff on that list is neolibs/cons neolib/ conning. Dalai Lama reincarnation is to annoy China who wants to appoint its own Dalai Lama when the current one dies instead of the one anointed by the Tibetans. Sudan was bribed to recognise Israel- not at all popular, internally- and that's part of the bribe, Nepal has a border dispute with China, Ukraine has a border dispute with Russia, Cambodia is seen as a bit of an influence battleground with China (plus Pakistan, Burma, and even Tunisia). There's a certain amount of irony in things like the Sudan situation which is obviously not America first in any real respect, but Israel first, but such things are in general the cost of running an empire with the alternative being surrendering influence to others. Which may be OK with the Guard Dogs of the US, but isn't with the vast majority of the ruling classes who write the bills. Look forward to a lot more such things from Biden and Harris, since their foreign policy will be failed neolib policy after failed neolib policy, because if at first you don't succeed keep going perpetually because anything else is failure.

[Amentep]

56 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

The treadmill bit was one small part of a $600k+ grant that was a squandered on a mostly irrelvant study. I do not give a f--k how economically important shrimp are. If studies like that need to be done they can be funded by interested parties. Not the taxpayer. 

So the Taxpayer has no interest in the long term survival of their food supply?

 

57 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Speaking of treadmills according to the WSJ it set aside $1.5M for a study on how quadiped reptile joints work and part of that will pay for THEIR treadmills so they can be 3D imaged while using them. You are a pragmatic guy. Does that sound like a good use of taxpayer dollars in a country that is $27T in debt AND dealing with record unemployment (meaning revenues are dropping as spending skyrockets)?

So no jobs will be continued by the study? Not the scientists, treadmillmakers, zoologist caring for the animals in the experiment...?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

21 minutes ago, Amentep said:

So the Taxpayer has no interest in the long term survival of their food supply?

If the shrimp want to survive they should simply stop being eaten and move to an area that isn't in danger of pollution.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

The treadmill bit was one small part of a $600k+ grant that was a squandered on a mostly irrelvant study.

I remember Sarah Palin railing against government spending on fruit flies. Her audience boo'd on cue and she smiled at how clever she was. Never mind that fruit flies are the cornerstone of biological research.

Quote

I do not give a f--k how economically important shrimp are. If studies like that need to be done they can be funded by interested parties. Not the taxpayer. 

This seems like a "cut off my nose to spite my face" argument.

The market won't do anything until it can profit from it. This is fine in some cases, but in others the work either needs to be done or should be considered important anyway. In those cases the right tool for the job is government.

Hating government and loving markets is like hating saws and loving hammers when you're trying to build a house.

Quote

This so called stimulus bill also set aside $2M to study whether or not hot tubs can reduce stress. Speaking of treadmills according to the WSJ it set aside $1.5M for a study on how quadiped reptile joints work and part of that will pay for THEIR treadmills so they can be 3D imaged while using them. You are a pragmatic guy. Does that sound like a good use of taxpayer dollars in a country that is $27T in debt AND dealing with record unemployment (meaning revenues are dropping as spending skyrockets)? We are one crisis away from hyperinflation of the dollar bur we just gave Tunisia $48M to help "disconnected youth" get internet access.  

So, I have the text of the bill up. I did a search for "hot tub" and came up empty. I read through the table of contents and didn't see anything that explicitly mentioned hot tubs or studies related to stress. Same goes for "reptile", "reptile joints", and "joints". Also, "Tunisia"

Without context, I can't speak to whether or not this is good use of taxpayer money. My guess is that there are probably lots of riders in the bill and that a fair amount of them were probably necessary to secure votes. That's how bills get passed; with votes.

Quote

I'd go sit in my hot tub to reduce my stress but I don't f-----g HAVE one because the DC Rats are giving away 28% of my salary every year. 

Good news is that you aren't being taxed without representation :)

Quote

As far as changing the government rather than being mad at it, change it into what? A responsible economic manager? Which political party would that be? This bill was bi-fu---ng- partisan. That means we need to get rid of BOTH the Democrats AND the Republicans. Well, I'm trying to do just that by my voting habits. Which, I believe, several people have tryped a great deal of text expaining to me how I was wasting my vote that way. 

Politicians, like all people, do what they are incentivized to do. When they are incentivized to change, they change. Voting third party does nothing to create that incentive, hence why some people might consider a third party vote wasted.

The problem that you and I keep running into here is a scale. You argue in terms of parties and I'm generally thinking in terms of individuals. You can't change a party from the outside and you can't do it without moving individuals.

My 2 cents anyway.

[Gromnir]

trump pardoning all the russia investigation dirtbags could come back to haunt the President, and quick at that. nothing to stop biden's ag from convening a new grand jury and bringing in stone, manafort, and the rest to testify. catch 'em in a lie and you got 'em for perjury and as we know they previous lied, "catch" is kinda a misleading description o' what would be taking place. either the scumbags gotta roll on trump, or they prompt go back to prison.

5th amendment is an issue, but could grant 'em immunity.

am uncertain biden wants to go the retribution route as he is talking 'bout mending divisions, but a few o' these pardons is particular loathsome and there should be some kinda pushback. admitted, the pardons which bothers us most (so far) is kushner and the blackwatwer mercs, but am not seeing a path to retrying those scumbags.

am suspecting 2021 will be almost as unpredictable as were 2017. "may you live in interesting times," eh?

HA! Good Fun!

ps am thinking worst thing trump could do if he wishes to avoid fed prosecution is to pardon himself. biden is unlikely to push for prosecution and will leave such up to his new ag, but joe is likely to pick an ag reluctant to prosecute trump. however, if trump pardons himself, is no way we see the new administration allowing such an unconstitutional precedent to stand w/o challenge. can't test the validity o' a self-pardon w/o a case/controversy. only way to make sure is no future self-pardons by corrupt Presidents is to charge trump with a fed crime and then have the courts weigh in on the pardon question. a trump self-pardon functional forces the doj to prosecute, and mueller left behind a whole lotta evidence o' obstruction of justice in addition to january 20, 2021 marking the end of trump Presidential privileges protecting witnesses and documents.

will indulge a clumsy christmas reference and observe that the self-pardon is the coup de grace of all dares: the sinister triple-dog-dare.

Edited December 25, 2020 by Gromnir

[rjshae]

On 12/24/2020 at 10:39 AM, KaineParker said:

I think Trump wants to be seen as the guy who got $2k in people's pockets going out the door when others wanted to settle for $600 in order to gild an otherwise horrible legacy. Biden will probably not get much done over the next few years, both because of Mitch's strategy and his own position as a centrist, so in the fairly likely event Trump runs again and we have some economic problems it's a good image to project.

He's pretty much all about image. The $600 was previously worked out between him and Mitch, so perhaps genius Trump was baiting a trap so he can look good? But Hanlon's razor would instead suggest idiot Trump's throwing a tantrum and wanted to nuke the works to get attention.

[BruceVC]

On 12/24/2020 at 8:35 PM, BruceVC said:

I love Shrimp, we dont want anything to happen to impact the availability of  that type  of seafood so these studies must continue 

I have just had another  vivid reminder of the importance of shrimp, I have ordered a Sushi combo for dinner and part of that is tempura  shrimp on spicy mayo....how would you be able to order this type of sushi if there are no more  shrimp? It would be a disaster and an affront to  gastronomic culture everywhere ....we must do everything we can to ensure we keep the shrimp globally available 

 

[Gfted1]

Im not a fan of shrimp, or lobster for that matter, dont care for the texture. Im mean, Ill eat it, but its not something Ill order for myself. Now if theres a study about Alaskan King crab, then Im fully behind it.

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Gfted1 said:

Im not a fan of shrimp, or lobster for that matter, dont care for the texture. Im mean, Ill eat it, but its not something Ill order for myself. Now if theres a study about Alaskan King crab, then Im fully behind it.

Oh definitely, its not even a debate. Any study to ensure we can still eat crab and then who supports that will be a huge group, count me in