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Politics... US election edition


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2 minutes ago, Malcador said:

"The massive turn out alone is a red flag."

Why ?

How would I know? I'm just showing the others sides point of view. Compare to the rest of increases? 

I'm not that invested i  US presidency. The only hope I would have is to stop the cancel culture and declare social media public utilities as once phone was declared in the past, and stop censorship on whats considered platforms, who also live off your perosnal data. 

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15 minutes ago, Malcador said:

"The massive turn out alone is a red flag."

Why ?

Because it didn't benefit them.

"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlshot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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31 minutes ago, Amentep said:

So your definition of Free Speech is that the government will protect your right to speak your mind, but your complaint was...

...in which no one prevented Trump giving a speech to speak his mind.  Or are you saying that Freedom of Speech comes with a requirement to listen to Free Speech? 

Caging someone in an empty room and saying "you can say whatever you want" is hardly a free speech to me. An important part of free speech is the ability for someone to listen to what people have to say if they want to. This was taken from people. Censorship is a free speech issue. 

23 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

So you haven't seen any evidence? You said it was "clearly a fraud" and that the American people had been robbed - how do you know?

I've seen plenty. I posted about it and Darkpriest posted enough above so I wont repeat. But seeing that something obviously taken place is not the same as producing evidence that a specific party did this. Finding a mass grave for example is clearly an evidence of mass murder but evidence for proving who did it is a different matter.

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5 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

Caging someone in an empty room and saying "you can say whatever you want" is hardly a free speech to me. An important part of free speech is the ability for someone to listen to what people have to say if they want to. This was taken from people. Censorship is a free speech issue. 

 

You are right about that. It was the goddamned Democrats that gave us “Free Speech Zones” during the Obama years. Outside of which you could expect armed government agents to beat the absolute f-k out of you if you so much as uttered a peep.

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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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9 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

Caging someone in an empty room and saying "you can say whatever you want" is hardly a free speech to me. An important part of free speech is the ability for someone to listen to what people have to say if they want to. This was taken from people. Censorship is a free speech issue. 

But, again, the situation you are commenting on didn't involve anyone in an empty room, metaphorically.  CNN and Fox continued to carry the speech to my knowledge, so it was available if anyone wanted to hear it.  The broadcast networks pulled away, yes, but they're not obligated to provide a free speech platform as they're not a part of the government.

Also, IMO, tying a requirement for someone to listen to free speech has issues.  I certainly want to be able to walk past the guy on the soapbox in the park shouting his thoughts at passersby, even if I support his ability to do same.

 

1 minute ago, Guard Dog said:

You are right about that. It was the goddamned Democrats that gave us “Free Speech Zones” during the Obama years. Outside of which you could expect armed government agents to beat the absolute f-k out of you if you so much as uttered a peep.

Er...????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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The massive turnout would be a red flag if it only benefited Biden, I suppose. But Trump is going to surpass 70 million votes, way over his 2016 numbers and probably the 2nd highest total in history. Maybe it was just an important election? Maybe it was easier to vote with all the drop boxes and clarifications of mail-in voting? Maybe people are just bored during a pandemic?

Nah, it's probably fraud. :aiee:

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Just now, Hurlshot said:

The massive turnout would be a red flag if it only benefited Biden, I suppose. But Trump is going to surpass 70 million votes, way over his 2016 numbers and probably the 2nd highest total in history. Maybe it was just an important election? Maybe it was easier to vote with all the drop boxes and clarifications of mail-in voting? Maybe people are just bored during a pandemic?

Nah, it's probably fraud. :aiee:

LOL! If I had told you on Monday that Trump was going to get the second highest vote total in history you would’ve thought he was going to win wouldn’t you? That is just too funny.

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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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2 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

LOL! If I had told you on Monday that Trump was going to get the second highest vote total in history you would’ve thought he was going to win wouldn’t you? That is just too funny.

No doubt! I figured Trump had his base and there was nothing he was going to do to upset that. My guess was that as long as Biden pulled Obama numbers and not Clinton numbers, he would win. Turned out I was wrong on both accounts. Trump has added nearly 8 million votes and Biden has added nearly 10. Honestly it is a huge victory for the democratic process, and once the dust settles I hope that is the main takeaway from this election year.

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20 minutes ago, Amentep said:

But, again, the situation you are commenting on didn't involve anyone in an empty room, metaphorically.  CNN and Fox continued to carry the speech to my knowledge, so it was available if anyone wanted to hear it.  The broadcast networks pulled away, yes, but they're not obligated to provide a free speech platform as they're not a part of the government.

Also, IMO, tying a requirement for someone to listen to free speech has issues.  I certainly want to be able to walk past the guy on the soapbox in the park shouting his thoughts at passersby, even if I support his ability to do same.

 

Er...????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Do you remember the Cleven Bundy standoff in Nevada about six years ago? Where the government cordoned off an area in the desert 8 miles away from where they were set up. That was the designated free-speech area. And yes those BLM guys got very physical with protesters outside of it. Bureau of land management. Not black lives matter. An important clarification. The former gets to legally kill you. Anyway it happened again a number of times during the Obama administration and is still a common site on college campus.

Edited by Guard Dog

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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46 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

My guess is you weren’t on this board or you would know the answer. The Democrats massively overplayed their hand and lost control of the House of representatives in 2010. Then lost the Senate in 2014. But in the short time they had absolute power they rammed the affordable care act down our throats. Not that it is all bad but there’s a lot of bad to it

Are you a member of the tea party, by chance?

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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Just now, Achilles said:

Are you a member of the tea party, by chance?

Nope. I am a card carrying dues paying member of the Libertarian Party.

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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Just now, Guard Dog said:

Nope. I am a card carrying dues paying member of the Libertarian Party.

I wonder if anyone has put together a venn diagram that shows what the overlap between those two groups looks like.

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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Just now, Achilles said:

I wonder if anyone has put together a venn diagram that shows what the overlap between those two groups looks like.

I suppose the first step would be to figure out just let the heck the party really was and what it wanted. In my experience you can’t get the same answer from two different people

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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Just now, Guard Dog said:

I suppose the first step would be to figure out just let the heck the party really was and what it wanted. In my experience you can’t get the same answer from two different people

So true. But every tribe shares a common thread.

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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16 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Do you remember the Cleven Bundy standoff in Nevada about six years ago? Where the government cordoned off an area in the desert 8 miles away from where they were set up. That was the designated free-speech area. And yes those BLM guys got very physical with protesters outside of it. Bureau of land management. Not black lives matter. An important clarification. The former gets to legally kill you. Anyway it happened again a number of times during the Obama administration and is still a common site on college campus.

AHHH, that BLM.  I could not understand what I was saying. EDIT also what you were saying. 🤣

Most Universities have Free Speech zones to prevent people from running shouting through the classrooms.  But they're not perfect, and have a lot of problems.

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55 minutes ago, Amentep said:

But, again, the situation you are commenting on didn't involve anyone in an empty room, metaphorically.  CNN and Fox continued to carry the speech to my knowledge, so it was available if anyone wanted to hear it.  The broadcast networks pulled away, yes, but they're not obligated to provide a free speech platform as they're not a part of the government.

Also, IMO, tying a requirement for someone to listen to free speech has issues.  I certainly want to be able to walk past the guy on the soapbox in the park shouting his thoughts at passersby, even if I support his ability to do same.

You purposely omitted "if they want to" part, why? Imagine a different situation you want to stop and listed to the guy but a police officer forces you to keep walking. You would say it's a violation of your right, but if a CEO of some company would do that you seem fine with it, why? That's what I don't understand in the mentality some of the posters show here. You all seem to be fine by literally everyone censor free speech as long as it's not the government.

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26 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Do you remember the Cleven Bundy standoff in Nevada about six years ago? Where the government cordoned off an area in the desert 8 miles away from where they were set up. That was the designated free-speech area. And yes those BLM guys got very physical with protesters outside of it. Bureau of land management. Not black lives matter. An important clarification. The former gets to legally kill you. Anyway it happened again a number of times during the Obama administration and is still a common site on college campus.

reversed timing. the free speech zones were set up in advance o' the protesters arriving. 

"got very physical" is kinda an odd description o' what happened and in any event, the free-speech areas were dismantled very quickly w/o even the need for a legal battle.

time, place, manner restrictions on free speech were addressed by the Court in 1972 (police department of chicago v. mosley.) kinda intuitive that picketers outside o' a hospital may be restricted to certain times and areas. unfortunately, a few government agencies and actors has tried to use tpm limits to censor speech and such efforts almost universal fail.

the bureau o' land management's free speech zones limiting protest to a small area o' a 1200 sq. mile area were patent ridiculous. the aclu were drooling at the chance to deliver a first amendment beatdown on the federal government for their temerity, but as already stated, the free speech zones were quick dismantled and the violence gd suggests were omnipresent was anything but.

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Trump prepares to launch a second term early, even without winning

At what point does this become pathetic?

Probably about two years ago. 

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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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33 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

You purposely omitted "if they want to" part, why? Imagine a different situation you want to stop and listed to the guy but a police officer forces you to keep walking. You would say it's a violation of your right, but if a CEO of some company would do that you seem fine with it, why? That's what I don't understand in the mentality some of the posters show here. You all seem to be fine by literally everyone censor free speech as long as it's not the government.

Because Free Speech as enshrined in the US Constitution is specifically addressed to the actions of the government.  Private individuals (and companies) have been free to censor themselves/for themselves or for their product, and we've seen them with things like the Motion Picture Production Code or the Comics Code Authority on large scale before. Neither prevented things violating the respective codes from being made or distributed, even if the distribution networks were limited or private.

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43 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Trump prepares to launch a second term early, even without winning

At what point does this become pathetic?

Probably about two years ago. 

He's going to throw one hell of a tantrum between now and January if he loses.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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How's that different from the last four years?

"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlshot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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Just now, KaineParker said:

How's that different from the last four years?

Touché.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Anyone remember Trump voters' motto and taunt to liberals after he won back in 2016? With their increasingly pathetic (and completely unsubstantiated) claims and crying of cheating and voter fraud, it's hard for it not to come to mind...

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Put fascists and sociopaths on your ignore list.

Quote

Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

 

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