Politics 20/20

[HoonDing]

That's a lot of ****hole countries

[Gromnir]

5 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

And yes I believe all of the stories regarding Hunter Biden’s business dealings and Joe’s benefit from them have more than a grain of truth in them even if they’re not all entirely true.

course you will believe just about any conspiracy theory which confirms your established belief that all washington politicians are corrupt, so fact that multiple republican led senate investigations, as well as fact that a william barr doj and the fbi had access to the information now being leaked but saw nothing relevant nevertheless convinces you comes as no surprise to us.

...

recall the bs receptivity scale?  am thinking you rate a "yowza," on the scale.

change scenario. an anti gun rights democrat tennessee politician finds a laptop which shows that a citizen is involved in numerous shady business and personal enterprises. the citizen in question is involved in a court battle regarding the state's attempt to condemn the citizen's land-- tennessee wants to build a waterpark and they need the citizen's land to complete the project. the wife o' the tennessee politician who found the laptop just so happens to be the contractor chosen to build the waterpark.

how much evidence would gd need to be convinced that the evidence on the laptop, left unclaimed at a local computer repair shop, is legit?

is yet another situation where gd convinces self that something is true 'cause it matches his curious world view, and all his professed cynicism is abandoned in favor o' an ill-supported and highly suspicious conspiracy which he would dismiss w/o a second thought but for fact it suggests a washington politician is corrupt. 

as to the debate, your reaction surprises us not at all. were nothing in the debate which were gonna push the needle for anybody... well, almost anybody

factual wrong as showing for court dates is high, although is worth noting an 8-1 SCOTUS decision found 'gainst the government 'cause for better than a year the USA were pulling shenanigans and in a disturbing high number o' situations the government informed released immigrants that they had a Court date but never made any effort to inform those immigrants the when or where o' the court date. for a limited period o' time, a high number o' cases were decided in absentia 'cause the defendant never appeared, but again, SCOTUS blamed the government for the failure and even then the numbers were in the 50% range during such a time period. 

'course factual wrong by trump is no surprise. he original made this bogus claim suggesting were only 3% who showed, though he has never mentioned iq previous. why he felt the need to reduce from 3% to 1% is odd for anybody save trump who always double down on a lie.

'course identify the factual wrongness o' trump ignores the utter wtf aspect o' the statement.

HA! Good Fun!

ps in a bit o' irony, immigrants who have court dates and came to the US as a family unit have better than 97% rate o' showing for their hearing date. 

[Guard Dog]

Gromnir it does not have to be completely true for there to be truth in it. And there is waaaay too much smoke surrounding that bunch for there to not be a fire. 
 

of course my opinion of that is irrelevant. I’m fact if the FBI had incontrovertible proof the “big man” was Joe himself and he was on the take  it would not matter. Every one how is voting for him is still voting for him because they are not voting FOR him. They are voting against Trump. Trump will leave office in the exact manner he came in. A completely unacceptable option defeated by a slightly less objectionable alternative. Irony. My favorite form of humor.

And BTW my description of the next President of these United States are the truest words I have ever written on this board in 16 years.

[Gromnir]

11 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Gromnir it does not have to be completely true for there to be truth in it. And there is waaaay too much smoke surrounding that bunch for there to not be a fire. 

 

Giuliani: Even if Hunter Laptop Story ‘Isn’t Accurate,’ Americans ‘Are Entitled to Know It’

again, change scenario and make it a citizen victim o' democrat legislators using the takings clause and consider how much smoke you would see as real as 'posed to contrived.

you have shown a willingness to embrace conspiracy theory when such conspiracies reinforce your belief that government = evil. yowza level o' willingness. 

24 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

And BTW my description of the next President of these United States are the truest words I have ever written on this board in 16 years.

and we believe that you believe what you said. however, have seen on multiple occasions over the past decade that there is frequent a big difference 'tween your belief and the truth.

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

4 minutes ago, Gromnir said: 

and we believe that you believe what you said. however, have seen on multiple occasions over the past decade that there is frequent a big difference 'tween your belief and the truth.

HA! Good Fun!

Multiple? Sure. Frequent? Not so much.

[Guard Dog]

@Gromnirremember this? 
https://www.nytimes.com/1991/08/06/us/inquiry-is-ordered-on-1980-campaign.html

We have no evidence of wrongdoing but the seriousness of the charge demands investigation. Boy have the standards plummeted. But then again they were never meant to apply to Democrats were they?

[Gromnir]

5 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

@Gromnirremember this? 
https://www.nytimes.com/1991/08/06/us/inquiry-is-ordered-on-1980-campaign.html

We have no evidence of wrongdoing but the seriousness of the charge demands investigation. Boy have the standards plummeted. But then again they were never meant to apply to Democrats were they?

your point?

...

you are not actual equating the hostage release scenario to the laptop situation are you? you spin back to 1980 and come up with a complete non analogous situation?

btw, there already were an inquiry into biden and the fbi has had the laptop in question for a considerable amount o' time. the senate inquiry had access to such "evidence" as you see as considerable smoke. a highly partisan investigation nevertheless found no evidence o' wrongdoing by biden.

you are a dog with a bone.

frequent. becoming more frequent.

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

No not equating the two. Just getting a chuckle over the hypocrisy. The situations were very different.

[Gromnir]

10 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

No not equating the two. Just getting a chuckle over the hypocrisy. The situations were very different.

1980.

hypocrisy is a stretch as virtual no people involved in the 1980 campaign is still around and in politics, save for a guy who paints washington politicians with a very broad and indiscriminate brush.

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

13 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

1980.

hypocrisy is a stretch as virtual no people involved in the 1980 campaign is still around and in politics, save for a guy who paints washington politicians with a very broad and indiscriminate brush.

HA! Good Fun!

Except him

 

tell me my friend, do you recall the story from Genesis where God told Lot he would spare Sodom if Lot could find 50 honest men? If God put that choice to you and said he would save Washington DC if you could find just 50 honest men is Joe Biden on your list? 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Guard Dog

[Gromnir]

23 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Except him

 

and from your link, there is nothing to suggest biden were driving the investigation o' the 1980 situation.

"Some in the Democratic Party have been concerned that the inquiry would be perceived as a purely partisan maneuver intended to damage Republicans as the Presidential campaign season opens."

article continues and makes clear this were hardly an investigation universal embraced by democrats. 

house investigation, not senate and no mention o' biden. is actual telling that this were a house investigation and not senate in spite o' a democrat majority in senate.  biden were on the senate foreign affairs committee at the time. so why not senate which typical has better investigative apparatus if for no other reason than their longer terms and more established relations with intelligence organizations and people?

 is hard to recall, but the senate, in particular, were far lass partisan in the 90s than it is today. 

but again, not same situation at all. your analogy is a stretch.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited October 23, 2020 by Gromnir

[Guard Dog]

I’m truth I do not recall Bidens name involved in that at all other than he was running for President in ‘84  when al this came up IIRC.

[Gromnir]

13 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

I’m truth I do not recall Bidens name involved in that at all other than he was running for President in ‘84  when al this came up IIRC.

the investigation happened in 91. 

...

'pon reflection, biden were senate judiciary at the time and were involved in the clarence thomas hearings.  don't know why we didn't immediate recall date.

biden did run for Pres in 1988 and there were talk o' him running in 1992, so is unlikely he would be involved even tangential in an investigation o' a potential political rival, 'cause that kinda thing were considered bad back in the 90s. go figure.

speaking o' hypocrisy, trump, who said last night he wants to protect the nation's seniors who is more susceptible to covid-19, is holding a rally today at a florida retirement community where the crowd is not social distanced and a majority is not wearing masks. at least it is outdoors... and the trump campaign did pass out hand sanitizer.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Gromnir

[Guard Dog]

I meant to say ‘88 not ‘84.  I remember that this happened with George HW Bush was running. I just couldn’t remember which time.

[Gromnir]

2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

I meant to say ‘88 not ‘84.  I remember that this happened with George HW Bush was running. I just couldn’t remember which time.

am thinking your posting o' the link only highlights just how much has changed since the nyt article were relevant, 'cause is no way in hell biden woulda' direct involved himself in the investigation o' a political opponent back in 1988. political suicide. so much has changed since 1988. current President asks foreign powers and his own doj to investigate a political rival? what? never woulda' thought such were possible in 1988 or 1980... or 2015.

regardless, gd sees smoke where he so very much wants to see smoke. the fbi has had the sinister laptop since december o' 2019 and if there were any undeclared foreign payments made to biden such would be serious illegal. biden released his taxes, so we know he didn't report such foreign payments. to make this conspiracy anything other than easy dismissed as something gd is smoking, we gotta imagine the republican initiated senate investigations, the fbi and the william barr led doj  buried damaging and illegal behaviour by biden. 

what we do know is that giuliani is current under federal investigation and the fbi refuse to comment 'bout the various conspiracy theories perpetuated by giuliani. that should tell you something. co-conspirator bannon is having already been indicted for wire fraud. 

occam's razor is not gd's friend. nevertheless, you need to see equivalency 'tween trump and biden as your entire political reality depends on whataboutism. biden may not be as dirty as trump but he is still a corrupt washington politician, right? they are all bad. there is no better option 'tween the available main party candidates. fine. may be true there is no good candidate 'cause takes little effort to find biden shortfalls on policy and competence. however, gd knows this election is also 'bout character and given just how corrupt and mendacious is trump, to make the whataboutism balance, gd needs to find something terribad 'bout biden.

proof o' biden's corruption, if gd is being honest, is that biden has been a washington politician for decades. is what gd believes. the giuliani conspiracy is the concrete proof o' what gd believes, therefore it is true. 

gd isn't a bad person and am certain he believes what he posts. genuine is the problem. your tendency to indulge conspiracy theories and make hyperbolic generalizations would be more funny if we weren't certain you is serious.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited October 23, 2020 by Gromnir

[Guard Dog]

2 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

 

gd isn't a bad person and am certain he believes what he posts. genuine is the problem. your tendency to indulge conspiracy theories and make hyperbolic generalizations would be more funny if we weren't certain you is serious.

HA! Good Fun!

It's not that I WANT there to be fire causing the smoke so much as expect there to be. But, I do not suggest the "evidence" coming from what's-his-name and Guliani is on the level. But that does not mean everything is on the up and up with the Bidens. Hunter Biden whose background was law, banking, and Amtrak suddenly ending up on the board of Burisma in a place like Ukraine is suspicious.  They were in an undeclared shooting war with Russia and needed US influence so one might be forgiven for thinking MAYBE HB's presence on a board of a foreign energy company he owned no stake in and had no qualifications for MIGHT be a way Ukraine "buys" favors.

Is it possible? You bet. Is it probable? Well, that is where your own opinion has to take over. I think yes. Purely my own opinion. I have no proof. No one's ever going on trial. This is purely an intellectual exercise. 

I absolutely believe Trump is capable of manufacturing evidence to discredit a rival and not lose a moment of sleep. He has no integrity. This hooey with labandoned aptops and cell phones is just that. But that does NOT mean there isn't a rat. 

Of course I would not vote for Biden if he were an angel. As I have stated before I will never vote for any Democrat in any race for any reason ever again. The love of freedom and liberty does not abide in the hearts of that party. After the last four years I'm leaning real close to the same for the Republicans. Perhaps a mass killing at the ballot box in 10 days will clean their house and let them start over. We'll have to see. I'm not hopeful.

[BruceVC]

https://www.stltoday.com/more-than-55-million-people-watched-the-final-presidential-debate/article_02217bcb-f3d4-5645-a04b-a9853787b618.html

More than 55 million US citizens watched this final debate so despite the general negativity reflected on this forum these types of debates clearly matter to many people

I also dont believe Biden or his son have been involved in any corrupt activity and the accusations are just politically motivated

And I must say I am excited about the final election, who will be the next US president ...its a big election and as usual with all US elections has global ramifications so it should matter to anyone who follows certain  global events and their outcomes

Is anybody else excited about this election?

 

[Zoraptor]

Hunter Biden is clearly corrupt- or an abject moron. His only qualification for a position at Burisma was being Joe Biden's son. That's just how Ukrainian business operates, you give directorships or other positions to relatives of powerful people and you get wheels greased in return; that's why Ukraine is the most corrupt country in Europe. If he weren't Joe Biden's son he wouldn't have been considered in a million years.

That equally certainly doesn't mean that Joe Biden himself has to be corrupt though, he can't control what his son does. And it also has to be said that Trump is definitively not in a position to throw many stones when it comes to family corruption.

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

Hunter Biden is clearly corrupt- or an abject moron. His only qualification for a position at Burisma was being Joe Biden's son. That's just how Ukrainian business operates, you give directorships or other positions to relatives of powerful people and you get wheels greased in return; that's why Ukraine is the most corrupt country in Europe. If he weren't Joe Biden's son he wouldn't have been considered in a million years.

That equally certainly doesn't mean that Joe Biden himself has to be corrupt though, he can't control what his son does. And it also has to be said that Trump is definitively not in a position to throw many stones when it comes to family corruption.

Yes he shouldnt have accepted the board position because of the political optics, that doesnt mean he is corrupt or a moron

It just means his  own sense of judgement around " corruption  perception " is in question 

[Gorth]

5 hours ago, BruceVC said:

It just means his  own sense of judgement around " corruption  perception " is in question 

Fixed it for you... I just can't imagine anyone not believing that Biden Jr. was the proverbial tool for someone. Only question really is what was the asking price of the Ukrainians?

[Guard Dog]

[Guard Dog]

TFF

[Guard Dog]

Don't remember if I shared this one or not:

 

OK, ya'll may resume serious discussion now. 

[Hurlshort]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54670269

So Biden said something surprisingly reasonable about oil and the environment, and now he has to backtrack or it will kill him politically. 

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Gorth said:

Fixed it for you... I just can't imagine anyone not believing that Biden Jr. was the proverbial tool for someone. Only question really is what was the asking price of the Ukrainians?

I think its exactly what it appears, Ukraine is dependent on the USA selling it weapons to fight the illegal conflict Russia has created around both Crimea and in eastern Ukraine 

So without realizing what it looks like politically for the Bidens  Ukraine wants to stay understandably on the good side of the USA so they offered him the position as a good ally. Biden Jr wasnt  someone who was unknown to the Ukrainian government as he had been doing work there for years

As I mentioned he shouldnt have taken the board position because I dont consider him suitably qualified but it still doesn't mean the Bidens are " irredeemably corrupt and benefitted through illegal gains "