Politics 2020

[Orogun01]

4 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

i rather give my data to China & Russia than UK & US

You could always move there, here's something to get you started.

[Skarpen]

2 minutes ago, Orogun01 said:

You could always move there, here's something to get you started.

That's weird. Dummies don't talk. Is this book for ventriloquists?

Anyway:
https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2020/september/minneapolis-city-council-complains-to-police-chief-about-rising-crime-rate-after-pledging-to-defund-department

[BruceVC]

10 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

i rather give my data to China & Russia than UK & US

You cant possibly be serious.....can you give me 3 reasons why you would do that, just 3?

[Malcador]

Cops being babies, as usual.

[Orogun01]

5 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Cops being babies, as usual.

I sincerely hope this is either venting or an attempt to humor.

[Gromnir]

5 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

As an election issue this actually helps the Orange Menace I think. It played a significant part in 2016.

am thinking too many people is forgetting how to read a calendar. in 2016 this were an issue 'cause the election would decide if the Court swung activist or remained in the hands o' the textualists. if trump gets a supreme court justice nominated and approved before november 3rd, then you have removed the immediate voting motivation o' folks indifferent to trump v. biden, but concerned 'bout the SCOTUS composition.

am suspecting trump wants to nominate an individual who will anger liberals so as to energize his base. such is not good news for senate republicans who are in danger o' losing their seats. collins might be fighting a doomed battle precise 'cause o' her support o' kavanaugh. other vulnerable senate republicans need support o' independents and even a few democrats to win reelection. this upcoming SCOTUS battle is not what most senate republicans facing reelection want. sure, there will be an effort to frame this situation as a repeat o' 2016, but that ends as soon as folks remember how to read a calendar. 

even so, this will be an issue trump uses to energize his base, so he will probable choose an evangelical as unpalatable to democrats as possible... though will likely be female as he has taken a considerable hit 'mongst women who voted for him in 16.  choose somebody who at least appears to reject roe v. wade. the more divisive the candidate, the better it is for trump... and the worse it is for senate republicans fighting close battles. rush through background investigation and do a lightning fast committee review is not gonna be a good optics but is gonna be necessary to get this completed before november 3.

oh, and not that democrats wanna hear this, but this nonsense all started 'cause obama and harry reid were frustrated with republican intransigence regarding appointments and they went nuclear as a solution.  needed sixty votes for Presidential appointees. democrats changed the rules and at the time mcconnell and other republicans cried foul, warning there would be a reckoning for violating time honored traditions. 

an eye for an eye for an eye foraneyeforaneyeforaneyeforaneyeforaneye...

you reap what you sow.

the thing is, if this kinda thing don't stop, is only gonna get worse. after four years o' trump and republicans one-upping the democrats, does anybody believe the democrats, if they wrest control o' the senate, will try and reset to a more sane and sober political environment? democrats, faced with the long list o' trump and senate republican violations o' constitutional law and government norms will indeed be justified in their efforts to do unto the republicans as has been done unto them... and so the cycle will continue.

"“You’ll regret this and you might regret it even sooner than you might think,” McConnell warned."

am knowing it is too late for mcconnell to look in the mirror and have a discussion with his 2013 self. we will all suffer 'cause folks on both sides o' the aisle refuse to stop and reflect on the consequences o' their actions.

ps is nothing to stop trump and mcconnell from pushing forward this effort even if trump loses. nothing precludes a lame duck appointment. is a couple republican senate seats which may change sooner rather than later, but until at least january 3, 2021, mitch has control o' the senate, and trump stays in office 'til january 20.

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Gromnir

[Guard Dog]

5 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

am thinking too many people is forgetting how to read a calendar. in 2016 this were an issue 'cause the election would decide if the Court swung activist or remained in the hands o' the textualists. if trump gets a supreme court justice nominated and approved before november 3rd, then you have removed the immediate voting motivation o' folks indifferent to trump v. biden, but concerned 'bout the SCOTUS composition.

am suspecting trump wants to nominate an individual who will anger liberals so as to energize his base. such is not good news for senate republicans who are in danger o' losing their seats. collins might be fighting a doomed battle precise 'cause o' her support o' kavanaugh. other vulnerable senate republicans need support o' independents and even a few democrats to win reelection. this upcoming SCOTUS battle is not what most senate republicans facing reelection want. sure, there will be an effort to frame this situation as a repeat o' 2016, but that ends as soon as folks remember how to read a calendar. 

even so, this will be an issue trump uses to energize his base, so he will probable choose an evangelical as unpalatable to democrats as possible... though will likely be female as he has taken a considerable hit 'mongst women who voted for him in 16.  choose somebody who at least appears to reject roe v. wade. the more divisive the candidate, the better it is for trump... and the worse it is for senate republicans fighting close battles. rush through background investigation and do a lightning fast committee review is not gonna be a good optics but is gonna be necessary to get this completed before november 3.

oh, and not that democrats wanna hear this, but this nonsense all started 'cause obama and harry reid were frustrated with republican intransigence regarding appointments and they went nuclear as a solution.  needed sixty votes for Presidential appointees. democrats changed the rules and at the time mcconnell and other republicans cried foul, warning there would be a reckoning for violating time honored traditions. 

an eye for an eye for an eye foraneyeforaneyeforaneyeforaneyeforaneye...

you reap what you sow.

the thing is, if this kinda thing don't stop, is only gonna get worse. after four years o' trump and republicans one-upping the democrats, does anybody believe the democrats, if they wrest control o' the senate, will try and reset to a more sane and sober political environment? democrats, faced with the long list o' trump and senate republican violations o' constitutional law and government norms will indeed be justified in their efforts to do unto the republicans as has been done unto them... and so the cycle will continue.

"“You’ll regret this and you might regret it even sooner than you might think,” McConnell warned."

am knowing it is too late for mcconnell to look in the mirror and have a discussion with his 2013 self. we will all suffer 'cause folks on both sides o' the aisle refuse to stop and reflect on the consequences o' their actions.

 

I'm working on the assumption they are not going to get a justice nominated and confirmed in 48 days. Now if things go south in the election they can do it in the lame duck session I'm guessing. 

Collins and Murkowski already said no. They can't lose even one more. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Guard Dog

[Malcador]

19 minutes ago, Orogun01 said:

I sincerely hope this is either venting or an attempt to humor.

Just that have seen their petulant reactions over the years to any criticism, heh, our local PD pretty much trots out "Don't give us a budget increase and there'll be crime!".  And have read comments by cops and in news of cops resigning due to the apparent demonization of them.  As usual Americans find it too hard to think on why something is rather than react to the thing.

So it's pretty believable that cops would start dogging it on the job, being upset that some set of individuals are not giving them the reverence they seem to need to operate day in day out. 

Funnily enough, according to the usual cop forums I read this, too, is part of the Marxist plan to destroy America

Edited September 19, 2020 by Malcador

[Gromnir]

16 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

I'm working on the assumption they are not going to get a justice nominated and confirmed in 48 days. Now if things go south in the election they can do it in the lame duck session I'm guessing. 

already addressed in our ps.

trump wants to juice his campaign and distract from covid-19. is gonna be a hard push from the wh to get this done before november 3.

am also thinking mcconnell believes he won't have the political clout to get a lame duck appointment through senate. mcconnell is more concerned with his legacy o' fed court appointments than anything else, which is why this has been the most unproductive Congress in modern history. mitch has tabled everything but appointments. 

am honest not sure how this all plays out 'cause trump is impulsive and often irrational. that said, am suspecting the best predictor o' what becomes the strategy for trump and the republicans is to watch fox the next couple days. 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited September 19, 2020 by Gromnir

[Orogun01]

8 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Just that have seen their petulant reactions over the years to any criticism, heh, our local PD pretty much trots out "Don't give us a budget increase and there'll be crime!".  And have read comments by cops and in news of cops resigning due to the apparent demonization of them.  As usual Americans find it too hard to think on why something is rather than react to the thing.

So it's pretty believable that cops would start dogging it on the job, being upset that some set of individuals are not giving them the reverence they seem to need to operate day in day out. 

Funnily enough, according to the usual cop forums I read this, too, is part of the Marxist plan to destroy America

Ok, I get where you're coming from but right now they're in the position where there's a national push for politicians to defund the police. If you are hostile to someone do expect them to be hostile back to you.  Plus, it is unreasonable to ask people to risk their lives on the daily and see pretty horrific things for a low pay. Even cops that join the force because of their values will become disenfranchised. They're already probably feel very ostracized because of their job experience, a little praise and respect is probably what they get from the job.

Don't get me wrong I'm all for police accountability but I understand the difference between a human doing their job and some bureaucrat PoS that's playing politics in their favor. At this time, PDs seem to be fighting the political establishment to do their jobs, in a lot of states. The Portland riots only died down after the Federal government deputized the State and local PDs because the District Attorney refused to prosecute any rioter.

[Orogun01]

7 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

already addressed in our ps.

trump wants to juice his campaign and distract from covid-19. is gonna be a hard push from the wh to get this done before november 3.

am also thinking mcconnell believes he won't have the political clout to get a lame duck appointment through senate. mcconnell is more concerned with his legacy o' fed court appointments than anything else, which is why this has been the most unproductive Congress in modern history. mitch has tabled everything but appointments. 

am honest not sure how this all plays out 'cause trump is impulsive and often irrational. that said, am suspecting the best predictor o' what becomes the strategy for trump and the republicans is to watch fox the next couple days. 

HA! Good Fun!

I think the Trump campaign will nominate a candidate that meets all the requirements of the far left.(Woman, POC) but that still has core republican values. Part of what has driven Trump's approval rating is how transparent the far left has been about  their dislike of Trump to the detriment of their own values and stated goals.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Last I heard police in Minneapolis were still being paid and the supposed defund measure hasn't gone into effect yet. If this is the police trying to prove their status as essential, they're failing miserably.

19 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Funnily enough, according to the usual cop forums I read this, too, is part of the Marxist plan to destroy America

Just like my ex-wife.

[Gromnir]

1 minute ago, Orogun01 said:

I think the Trump campaign will nominate a candidate that meets all the requirements of the far left.(Woman, POC) but that still has core republican values. Part of what has driven Trump's approval rating is how transparent the far left has been about  their dislike of Trump to the detriment of their own values and stated goals.

dog whistle much?

the suggestion being a woman and person o color "meets all the requirements o' the far left" will be the fox news and breitbart spin. thanks for being the obsidian board voice box for the conservative media echo chamber. such silliness will be yet another way for trump to make race and gender issues. choose a woman evangelical who is public opposed to roe v. wade and suggest she meets requirements o' liberals is what we expect and should be transparent and hollow... but it will play to the trump base. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Orogun01]

9 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

dog whistle much?

the suggestion being a woman and person o color "meets all the requirements o' the far left" will be the fox news and breitbart spin. thanks for being the obsidian board voice box for the conservative media echo chamber. such silliness will be yet another way for trump to make race and gender issues. choose a woman evangelical who is public opposed to roe v. wade and suggest she meets requirements o' liberals is what we expect and should be transparent and hollow... but it will play to the trump base. 

HA! Good Fun!

The focus of the far left rhetoric pretty much involves race and gender; at least at face value, qualifications never come into play when they demand that more POC, women and LGTB should hold positions of power like CEO. Why would they care that a POC, woman or LGTB doesn't accurately represent their views anymore that they care if a business fails?

[Gromnir]

54 minutes ago, Orogun01 said:

The focus of the far left rhetoric pretty much involves race and gender; at least at face value, qualifications never come into play when they demand that more POC, women and LGTB should hold positions of power like CEO. Why would they care that a POC, woman or LGTB doesn't accurately represent their views anymore that they care if a business fails?

so, thanks for sharing the hannity/carlson/inghram narrative? 

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

38 minutes ago, Orogun01 said:

I think the Trump campaign will nominate a candidate that meets all the requirements of the far left.(Woman, POC) but that still has core republican values. Part of what has driven Trump's approval rating is how transparent the far left has been about  their dislike of Trump to the detriment of their own values and stated goals.

I must say you make me laugh sometimes  But I am enjoying our chats since you have got back and if you dont mind me asking where did you go and are you prepared  to share your voting choice and why, I would guess you voting Trump?

Dan is voting Trump and his reasons make sense, Dan feels Trump is better at ensuring law and order. I have to agree with that considering  the protracted  and violent levels of strikes we witnessed for months ....I am truly surprised how very few of our American members were concerned about this event and how long it went on for? 

Then he is concerned with Biden going a far left and or socialist path.....last year I would have said " its not possible " but I have become more aware of  a real risk from far left polices

What do you think is the best way forward to address groups like Antifa, would you arrest them. Surly the law needs to be enforced?  

 

[BruceVC]

 

16 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

so, thanks for sharing the hannity/carlson/inghram narrative? 

HA! Good Fun!

Hi Gromnir, can you comment on my general question below, its come up as a SA  outcome and I just need some input

 

Thanks for sharing this information, I consider you a very knowledgeable and authentic reference for understanding the history of Native Americans and its not just your lived experience but what you have studied and have been involved in

And that brings me to a question, I have watched several TV series where the reality of life on the Native Americans  reservations is portrayed and in some tribes there seems to be a debate around "what is the most effective way reservations should be utilized to ensure culture is preserved but there is also economic transformation " 

Some tribes have built casinos as a source of legitimate revenue generation and I always thought this is genius and makes sense. I use to be a gambler and casinos offer restaurants, movie theaters, shows and become conference centers ...apart from the gambling which is great fun but there are rules about not abusing gambling which must be adhered to 

Yet I have seen there is some push back from some tribal spokesmen because they see casinos as undermining culture and basically corrupting the tribe 

And this surprises me that a legitimate business could be seen so  negatively. A casino  creates jobs and income and has much ancillary business benefits. For example this  also leads to transformation like people that own or work in casino restaurants 

Whats your view on the benefits and or negative of casinos on reservations ?

[MedicineDan]

Too time consuming to make a larger post, but it's quite dismaying that Ginsberg died.  I swear, who in the hell broke a mirror this year?  I personally disagreed with her philosophy, especially in disparaging the US constitution as a document of negative rights.  Of course, it *is,* but that's good!  It's really too bad that her death comes at virtually precisely the right time to cause increased chaos within the electorate.  I never wish death on people unlike the folks around here who crow about the deaths of conservatives.  Another thing that's really too bad is that the death of this human being is distressing primarily for political reasons.  I feel guilty, but my first thought was about the political situation when I heard she'd died, and she was certainly a massive figure in US history.

Anyhow, don't have much time to climb over the walls of text, but remember to vote for Trump in November.  Don't buy the nonsense that our 'erudite' members peddle.  Yeah, Biden will probably win, but you never know, so go vote!

[ShadySands]

25 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Dan is voting Trump and his reasons make sense, Dan feels Trump is better at ensuring law and order. I have to agree with that considering  the protracted  and violent levels of strikes we witnessed for months ....I am truly surprised how very few of our American members were concerned about this event and how long it went on for? 

Because the guy it all started under is the best guy to stop it?

Also because we live here and things aren't as they seem on tv

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, Orogun01 said:

The focus of the far left rhetoric pretty much involves race and gender; at least at face value, qualifications never come into play when they demand that more POC, women and LGTB should hold positions of power like CEO. Why would they care that a POC, woman or LGTB doesn't accurately represent their views anymore that they care if a business fails?

The "far left" (unless using a definition so expansive anyone outside of Trump's sphere is "far left") hates Kamala Harris (a Black Indian woman) for being a prosecutor who described herself as a "top cop". I don't think they're going to respond positively to a someone of a POC, LGBT, Woman, Indigenous, Muslim, or other marginalized identity (or identities) who has beliefs in line with the Trump team. Considering your stated beliefs on a CHINESE COMMUNIST CONSPIRACY TO DESTROY AMERICA AND CUCK THE WHITE MAN THROUGH DEGENERATE ART AND UNIVERSITIES you'd think you'd have bothered to investigate what your opposition actually thinks instead of relying on youtube comments or imageboards, but I guess your light research is reserved for genocide revisionism.

[majestic]

45 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Then he is concerned with Biden going a far left and or socialist path.....last year I would have said " its not possible " but I have become more aware of  a real risk from far left polices

What do you think is the best way forward to address groups like Antifa, would you arrest them. Surly the law needs to be enforced? 

Yes, every political dissident needs to be put in a hard labor camp where they can properly concentrate on becoming better citizens. So they can do their part. Like the Chinese do. Wait a moment, you don't really like the Chinese government, that can't be it.

Are you sure you're South African and not Argentinian with German ancestry?

Edited September 19, 2020 by majestic

[Orogun01]

6 minutes ago, KaineParker said:

The "far left" (unless using a definition so expansive anyone outside of Trump's sphere is "far left") hates Kamala Harris (a Black Indian woman) for being a prosecutor who described herself as a "top cop". I don't think they're going to respond positively to a someone of a POC, LGBT, Woman, Indigenous, Muslim, or other marginalized identity (or identities) who has beliefs in line with the Trump team. Considering your stated beliefs on a CHINESE COMMUNIST CONSPIRACY TO DESTROY AMERICA AND CUCK THE WHITE MAN THROUGH DEGENERATE ART AND UNIVERSITIES you'd think you'd have bothered to investigate what your opposition actually thinks instead of relying on youtube comments or imageboards, but I guess your light research is reserved for genocide revisionism.

A study of the ideals of the far left its like studying  Schrodinger's Cat, Entropy or the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. Its going to end in the same conclusion; you just don't know.
But because of the tremendous focus America has on identity politics for some reason that insane ideology is being promoted by the mainstream. Or perhaps because the mainstream eschewed nuance for identity politics for so long; in order to gain voters, now they have created a monster they don't know how to deal with.

[BruceVC]

2 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

Because the guy it all started under is the best guy to stop it?

Also because we live here and things aren't as they seem on tv

Yes this is the impression I picked but what do you mean guy who started it ? 

But also I am aware you guys dont live in Portland.....but  what has that got to do with being concerned about a protest lasting 100 days, I know people are limited around what you can realistically do? In SA we deal with some violent protests that have been going on for years and it started in the mining sector 2008 and it to a massacre where police were thrown under the bus ....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marikana_massacre

You realize that prolonged violent protests need to be addressed and not allowed to continue  as it becomes worse and I am interested in why were most members werent too concerned about the length of the protests, some members did comment. Hurlshot basically said in his town the protests were not  violent so he wasnt too concerned. That isnt an answer I was expecting but its a valid answer

 

[BruceVC]

14 minutes ago, majestic said:

Yes, every political dissident needs to be put in a hard labor camp where they can properly concentrate on becoming better citizens. So they can do their part. Like the Chinese do. Wait a moment, you don't really like the Chinese government, that can't be it.

Are you sure you're South African and not Argentinian with German ancestry?

No I am not suggesting prison time unless its warranted  ...but I would like to get your opinion as another non-American. You live in Germany right...where do you live in Germany if you dont mind sharing? 

[Orogun01]

48 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

I must say you make me laugh sometimes  But I am enjoying our chats since you have got back and if you dont mind me asking where did you go and are you prepared  to share your voting choice and why, I would guess you voting Trump?

Dan is voting Trump and his reasons make sense, Dan feels Trump is better at ensuring law and order. I have to agree with that considering  the protracted  and violent levels of strikes we witnessed for months ....I am truly surprised how very few of our American members were concerned about this event and how long it went on for? 

Then he is concerned with Biden going a far left and or socialist path.....last year I would have said " its not possible " but I have become more aware of  a real risk from far left polices

What do you think is the best way forward to address groups like Antifa, would you arrest them. Surly the law needs to be enforced?  

 

I likewise enjoy talking with you. You're probably on of the most patient and considerate posters in here.

I am voting Trump, same reason I voted Trump back in 2016: I don't like establishment politicians. That's probably a view shared by a lot of Americans, specially after 2 decades of conflict in the middle east, the fall of the middle class and the bailout.  The push to the far left in America is a result of this, Bernie Sander said it best when he equated socialism to social planning and that we now have social planning for the rich, so why can't we have it for the poor.
Unfortunately a lot of people just look at what they stand to gain short term and ignore the long term failures of a state run economy. Simply put, you trust a mechanic to fix your car but you would be wary of a state appointed administrator that doesn't know a wheel from a carburetor directing the fixing of your car.  Socialism fails because it promotes based on ideology and inner politics rather than merit.

Antifa is already being dealt with in a way, from journalist Andy Ngo (he was attacked by Antifa) crusade to hold violent members accountable by tweeting their PUBLIC arrest records. To the Trump administration deputizing State and Local PD in these areas in order to bypass District Attorneys that won't prosecute these violent criminals and instead charge them in a Federal court.

The problem is that Antifa is just a symptom not a disease, they are the result of ideological subversion and a corporatist culture that has grown unchecked and denied constitutional rights to citizen. Whilst telling you that you're being whiny just because you can afford a smartphone.