Need help for first MC class for play through!

[SirShiv]

Hey everyone!

Just recently installed PoE2 and I'm not gonna lie - I'm pretty overwhelmed with indecision. I know that for below Veteran it's really hard to botch a build so I'm not overly concerned about that, but I'm a bit torn on what to try for my first turn based, story driven / RP play through in terms of flavor.

Right now, I think I've narrowed it down to three classes - the monk (a staple favorite of mine since ye olde PnP days), the fury druid (I love the thematic idea of a storm druid), or a blood mage (I like the versatility it brings to the table). Honorable mention to the Cipher as well, but guides for that are... all over the place.

Not knowing much of the mechanics and such, I'm not sure what the above choices really bring to the table other than some crazy min/max multiclass videos I've seen pop up on Youtube meant more for hardcore solo play throughs on the hardest difficulty. If at all possible I'd like to stick to single class for the time being as I've read these three classes in particular do fairly well with that, though I'm not 100% sure and am open to suggestions. I also have absolutely *no* idea how to build them stat wise - almost every guide says to dump Res, but it appears Res is also very important for RP / story so I'm not sure how hard I'm going to gimp myself by trying to keep that at least high enough to pass some checks. 

Any help and / or advice is deeply appreciated!

[Scrapulous]

7 hours ago, SirShiv said:

Just recently installed PoE2 and I'm not gonna lie - I'm pretty overwhelmed with indecision.

Yes, welcome ("one of us! one of us!"). Indecision is the early stage of PoE love, in my experience. I rerolled in both games a LOT before I stuck with something, and even now that I've done different playthroughs, I don't play a single character straight through, I swap between ongoing playthroughs. The game mechanics are constantly presenting interesting new problems and tricks to explore and sometimes my mind gets its teeth into something and won't let go until the bite is complete.

Single class Monk is really powerful. I won't say "you can't go wrong," because it's possible, but monk has a lot of ways to go right. Given that respecs are easy and cheap, there's no such thing as a permanently broken build.

Take this advice with a grain of salt, but what helped me settle down on a primary character in both PoE1 and PoE2 was deciding to commit to a class that wasn't especially new to me: wizard. I think Priest or Druid would have worked just as well. They're pretty standard caster classes and won't provide too much rocky ground, imo. But I also love wizards in most games, so it felt like "home base" and a good place to start learning a new system. It sounds like Monk might be that for you, although I do think PoE monks, and especially Deadfire monks, are somewhat different than I expected based on my normal thoughts about what a fantasy monk is. But I think picking something you like conceptually and seeing if you like it mechanically is potentially a good way to make a first character "stick."

I'm not especially qualified to give stat advice - sometimes I feel like I made the wrong stat choices and just roll with them anyway. I also am not a fan of dumping stats, and this game actively tries to discourage it, so I hesitate to comment when people ask about dumping.

Welcome and enjoy! And if you do a bunch of rerolls before you find something you love, I certainly won't judge

Scrap

[thelee]

7 hours ago, SirShiv said:

I also have absolutely *no* idea how to build them stat wise - almost every guide says to dump Res, but it appears Res is also very important for RP / story so I'm not sure how hard I'm going to gimp myself by trying to keep that at least high enough to pass some checks. 

res is not that important for RP / story, most of that is handled by your passive skills (bluff, history, etc.), and when it comes to stat checks, resolve is probably about as important as any other stat. the main RP part where resolve matters is just if you're interested in picking up a specific soulbound mace, which requires an intellect check to figure out how to pick up the mace, and then a resolve check to fight back its efforts to resist you picking it up.

you don't have to dump res, but it's not very useful for non-melee-ers. and on veteran or potd, due to boosted enemy stats, it's pretty much an all-in deal to get much out of it (but it can be extremely good with heavy investment).

if you're new to poe, the system is very forgiving. it's really hard to do a "bad" stat setup. there's more room to screw up in deadfire simply because multiclassing explodes the possible choices to make, and you can't respec stats or your level 1 abilities, so there's greater possibility that you get a suboptimal combination. i'm one of those people who know how to min-max but i still consciously choose not to (at least, not all the way) simply because it's not as "fun", and not dumping res has never prevented me from clearing the highest difficulty with challenges and with megabosses.

 

as a rough outline - intellect and dex are king stats. might and perception are roughly equivalent and are better off being balanced (for offensive characters at least). con and resolve always suffer in games like these because high defense is not really rewarded in most situations. but again, it's hard to do a stat combination that won't work out. i think if you dump intellect and dex and invest them in resolve/con for a ranged caster you might have a harder time, but otherwise i would just go with what you're comfortable with. there are lots of micro optimizations if you wanna dive deeper into it that become class/role-specific, but for someone facing indecision i wouldn't worry about it. think of it more as something to worry about if you do a second or third run, after you have more experience under your belt.

 

also, +1 to @Scrapulous's post. though one thing to add: i'm only really familiar with monks from dnd, 3e/pathfinder and if iirc in those games a monk is mostly an evasive glass-cannon (getting lots of AC when lightly encumbered, for example). the monk in poe2 is more about taking a lot of pain to power your abilities. depending on your preferred playstyle/narrative that might be quite a change, because in most situations being highly evasive is actually bad for you.

Edited August 3, 2020 by thelee

[SirShiv]

Wow - this is all fantastic advice, thank you @Scrapulous and @thelee! I won't spam the thread by quoting every suggestion, but I'm definitely referring to it as I go through character creation. I ended up making a monk (which I'm probably going to play), a bloodmage and a fury druid (and I'm looking at a mind stalker now), and they're all sitting on the beach. This game is going to be so bad for my alt-itus. 

As far as my Helwalker goes, I tried this stat spread (turn based, elf) - Might 9, Con 15, Dex 15, Per 19, Int 10, Res 10. No idea if that's how a helwalker is supposed to work (I'm thinking of dropping dex and pumping something else, not sure how important it is in turn based), but I'm hoping it'll get me through the classic experience at least!

Edited August 3, 2020 by SirShiv

[thelee]

58 minutes ago, SirShiv said:

As far as my Helwalker goes, I tried this stat spread (turn based, elf) - Might 9, Con 15, Dex 15, Per 19, Int 10, Res 10. No idea if that's how a helwalker is supposed to work (I'm thinking of dropping dex and pumping something else, not sure how important it is in turn based), but I'm hoping it'll get me through the classic experience at least!

for future use, in turn-based mode dex (and armor) are much less important especially for non-casters.

intellect is surprisingly useful for a monk as well (area of effect of torment's reach, duration of blade turning, duration of swift strikes) so intellect could use some if you plan on re-doing the stats. however, it's much harder to determine how good intellect is in turn-based mode due to hard rounding cutoffs - i remember reading something that 14 is a good all-purpose target to hit, but it can be really all over the place for turn-based mode.

perception is also less useful in turn-based mode because the graze range is significantly larger - basically you almost never miss. you still benefit from hitting/critting more often though, though on lower difficulties on turn-based mode, the "balance between might and perception" shifts in favor of might.

 

i don't think any of these are deal-breakers or reasons to re-roll, just providing that feedback.

[Kaylon]

For a monk in turn based mode you can dump con, dex and res to 3 (or as low as you're comfortable with). After that Int>Per>Mig, but don't let your might under 15 because it affects healing, fortitude and it's the only stat that can increase directly your damage (also you won't be able to maintain max wounds once you get WotW).  

[Haplok]

7 hours ago, thelee said:

i'm only really familiar with monks from dnd, 3e/pathfinder and if iirc in those games a monk is mostly an evasive glass-cannon (getting lots of AC when lightly encumbered, for example). the monk in poe2 is more about taking a lot of pain to power your abilities. depending on your preferred playstyle/narrative that might be quite a change, because in most situations being highly evasive is actually bad for you.

Well, that's true for default monks and 2 subclasses. But then there are 2 which don't need to be damaged to operate: Shattered Pillar (a bit gimped due to low Wound limit - unless using the Community Patch) and the Forbidden Fist, who generally wants high Res to reduce forbidden Curse duration, hence makes good monk tank material. Granted the FF needs to be a little more stingy with his Wound management initially, but his FF special is free and quite potent, can also rely on Stunning Surge cost refunds. Then Parting Sorrow helps a lot (think it also triggers whenever you kill an enemy you've been engaging... and as a monk you're killing a lot) and Imagined Pain can be even better, I hear.

 

So there are very potent monk options that don't need/want to get hit

Edited August 4, 2020 by Haplok

[Boeroer]

SC Monk with Nomad's Briganine (immunity to disengamgement attack --> every disengagement attack is a miss) and Imagined Pain is great.

Quite easy to play multiclasses for the beginner are Brute, Brawler and Crusader imo - since they are very forgiving in general, sturdy yet offensively strong, easy/straightforward to level, need rel. low micromanagement and are reliable with almost everything they do. 

[SirShiv]

6 hours ago, Kaylon said:

For a monk in turn based mode you can dump con, dex and res to 3 (or as low as you're comfortable with). After that Int>Per>Mig, but don't let your might under 15 because it affects healing, fortitude and it's the only stat that can increase directly your damage (also you won't be able to maintain max wounds once you get WotW).  

Interesting - as a helwalker, I would have thought dropping Con so low would be a death sentence. I haven't played it much, but acquiring wounds is pretty dangerous at least at my level. Is Int really that important for a fist using monk? Again, low level so I'm sure there are things I haven't seen yet but it doesn't seem like i have much that's affected by it.

[Haplok]

Personally I don't like Crusaders. Find them extreme defensive overkill with too little offense.

I'd much rather take a Swashbucker or a Holy Slayer instead.

[Boeroer]

You are no beginner, are you?

[SirShiv]

13 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

You are no beginner, are you?

Not sure if you were referring to me or someone else (looking back I'm pretty sure you didn't mean me), but in the event it was me: I'm very new at Deadfire, but not new to CRPGs or RPGs in general. I have a pretty good handle on what things in general do, but the specific mechanics and especially how things build later on are foreign to me. For example, someone mentioned dumping Con on my SC monk for turn based mode - from my previous experience in other games (con = health) and how it seems helwalkers work (taking damage = doing more damage but taking more damage) dumping con seems risky, so I'm just wondering why that would be a stat to not prioritize.

Edited August 4, 2020 by SirShiv

[SirShiv]

Since this thread is getting so many views and in the interest of helping other newcomers who might be in the same boat as me, I've been tinkering (a lot) with different stuff and I'm actually having fun with a mindstalker - assassin / soulblade with real time combat as opposed to turn based. I've no idea if I'm doing it right or not (any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated), but darting in and out of combat to deliver psionic imbued blows with a massive two handed weapon is pretty satisfying, as is the added challenge of if an enemy looks at me I more or less melt.  

Edited August 4, 2020 by SirShiv

[Haplok]

13 hours ago, Boeroer said:

You are no beginner, are you?

Nope. But even for a beginner I'd assume either a Fighter or a Paladin should provide all the tankiness they would ever need. Even moreso if he plays below PotD difficulty.
No reason to combine them both for tankiness overkill IMO.

9 hours ago, SirShiv said:

Since this thread is getting so many views and in the interest of helping other newcomers who might be in the same boat as me, I've been tinkering (a lot) with different stuff and I'm actually having fun with a mindstalker - assassin / soulblade with real time combat as opposed to turn based. I've no idea if I'm doing it right or not (any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated), but darting in and out of combat to deliver psionic imbued blows with a massive two handed weapon is pretty satisfying, as is the added challenge of if an enemy looks at me I more or less melt.  

Huh, that's a nice combo. And can be fun indeed. Although some encounters like to throw a lot at you and it might feel a bit squishy then. Well, up to your playstyle I guess.

I do think the various cipher multiclasses are among the most fun characters to play. Although an Assassin/Bloodmage is fun also (and more durable due to buffs and Corrosive Siphon aoe health drain, I think)  Note Assassinate effects (+25 Accuracy, +4 PEN,+50% Critical damage) apply also to spells (but not multihit or slow moving ones - only the initial strike/burst/explosion).

Then again, you'd be missing on those huge Assassinate Backstab Soul Annihiliations.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Haplok

[Kaylon]

On 8/4/2020 at 2:57 PM, SirShiv said:

Interesting - as a helwalker, I would have thought dropping Con so low would be a death sentence. I haven't played it much, but acquiring wounds is pretty dangerous at least at my level. Is Int really that important for a fist using monk? Again, low level so I'm sure there are things I haven't seen yet but it doesn't seem like i have much that's affected by it.

At low-mid level you should use good armor to reduce the incoming damage and don't stack too much wounds... You can also play as a ranged character in the beginning. The constitution makes very little difference in the beginning and becomes useless for the end game. As a monk you should in fact avoid being hit by using CCs (Efficient Anguish -> Stunning Surge/Raised Torment -> Whispers of the Wind) too much and generate wounds in a controlled way.

[dgray62]

As a Helwalker monk, the damage malus is less concerning than it seems, since you can control it. If you're getting hit a lot you can reduce or eliminate it by spending wounds. Blade Turning also really helps, by both spending wounds and making you temporarily invulnerable to melee damage. As Kaylon indicated, wearing heavy armor or attacking from range (with hand mortar & fire in the hole particularly) can really help. If you want to melee, Tuotilo's Palm also really helps. Abraham pet really helps too. It will partially offset the recovery penalty from heavy armor, and heal you on kills; since you're a Helwalker with potentially very high STR, those heals will be substantial, and will come often.

[ShadyLightnin]

On 8/4/2020 at 11:09 PM, Haplok said:

Nope. But even for a beginner I'd assume either a Fighter or a Paladin should provide all the tankiness they would ever need. Even moreso if he plays below PotD difficulty.
No reason to combine them both for tankiness overkill IMO.

Huh, that's a nice combo. And can be fun indeed. Although some encounters like to throw a lot at you and it might feel a bit squishy then. Well, up to your playstyle I guess.

I do think the various cipher multiclasses are among the most fun characters to play. Although an Assassin/Bloodmage is fun also (and more durable due to buffs and Corrosive Siphon aoe health drain, I think)  Note Assassinate effects (+25 Accuracy, +4 PEN,+50% Critical damage) apply also to spells (but not multihit or slow moving ones - only the initial strike/burst/explosion).

Then again, you'd be missing on those huge Assassinate Backstab Soul Annihiliations.

Can confirm on the SoulBlade. I played cipher on PoE1; so I’d catch myself casting a spell occasionally and ask myself and my dog”WTF am I doing here, besides smoking heroin?” Wasting time effort and money (well Focus) for a lesser return.

Why would I try to cast amplified silent scream when I could just cast 1 20 focus spell(Frightened foes? Secret Foes? The one that immediately applies flanked to a huuuuuge AoE) and then basically turn the highest Threat enemy into sushi. The animation on Soul Annihilation is insanely satisfying..

 

anyway, came here just to see ideas of a SC monk build. I’d love to get a concrete build though for 5.0.

 

tbh, I’ve been in character creation for 2 days trying to decide between SC wizard, SC monk, or some other multi class