Politics XXXVIII (A Nontotient)

[Malcador]

We are all BLM here, then.  And mass murdering Nazis.

[Bartimaeus]

11 minutes ago, Malcador said:

We are all BLM here, then.  And mass murdering Nazis.

Clarification: are we mass murdering Nazis, or mass-murdering Nazis? I'm cool with either way, I just want to make sure I wear my fascist/anti-fascist outfit appropriately.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Bartimaeus

[Malcador]

3 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

Clarification: are we mass murdering Nazis, or mass-murdering Nazis? I'm cool with either way, I just want to make sure I wear my fascist/anti-fascist outfit appropriately.

Just wear black, you're set either way!

[Amentep]

3 hours ago, Skarpen said:

Funnily enough this is the first video of black person violation a white person AND the first time I see you or anyone asking for context, source, proof etc. Makes you wonder...why this video is treated differently?

Well by that logic shouldn't white on black/hispanic/asian/etc. violence be the overall biggest then? Just looking for consistency here.

1. I usually don't post in the political threads, but I have asked for context on videos before (and for other stories posted via social media in the political threads).  This isn't to say the videos aren't what they purport to be, and it isn't intended to be a judgement on the nature of these things but I've found that videos are often circulated with their context removed, because the person publicizing it has an agenda that they don't want the facts to get in the way of.  Also singular videos tend to amount to anecdotal evidence which can be interesting aren't necessarily statistically relevant if you're trying to draw conclusions to the larger population.

2. This is one of the reasons you have to be careful with statistics. Lets say there is one person of race X in town, and the 999 other people in town are race Y.  Lets say that there is a random chance any one of these 1000 people may have non-negligible chance of attacking someone else.  Race X person, if they commit violence has a 100% chance to commit it against  race Y, while any race Y person has a .001% chance to commit it against a race X person. Statistically if you extrapolate this to more realistic population numbers with more realistic crime chances you can see that a town with a large majority and small minority should produce significant race X on race Y and rarely race Y on race X. Given that the USA has a lot of self-segregated areas, you tend to have situations with overwhelming majorities compared to the minority race, whichever ones they happen to be, and numbers will be vastly different in those areas where racial self-segregation is smaller (ie the majority and minority populations are roughly the same).  Unfortunately the FBI data doesn't to my knowledge really get into where the raw numbers come from so that you can approach a nuanced understanding of what the numbers mean, hence my caution regarding these numbers.

[Gromnir]

2 hours ago, Amentep said:

Volourn just wants to further his shtick. 

the core irrationality is impossible to overcome. vol hears that some rock-for-brains yahoo on the arse end o' the internet made a claim that all white people are racist and he reads as all white people are kkk/nazis.  am not denying we has seen such hasty generalizations being made and they offend us. vol clear is also offended by the manifest wrongness o' the hasty generalization fail-- is unfair to label all white folks as nazis 'cause o' the behaviours o' dirtbags. do nothing save nod head sadly and silent condemn racist behaviour may be a morally insufficient response to injustice, but we will leave that fight for another day. regardless, vol is justifiable displeased with the generalization.

vol's response to the injustice o' painting an entire group/class/organization with a single oversized brush that colors all members with the sins o' the few or the wrongs o' the one is to do the exact same thing which annoyed him. he now insists every wrong done unto cops, frequent with no information at his disposal save that cops were injured or harmed or killed, is to blame blm and antifa. say what?

vol is incapable or unwilling to see his blanket condemnations as mirroring the injustices which originally offended him.  dialogue is doomed 'cause the fundamental mistake vol makes, having been pointed out to him dozens o' times by many people, is incomprehensible for vol. 

for decades we have personal seen vol rabid defend the indefensible with complete conviction. were funny when were game stuff. were amusing when were bioware or obsidian or troika trying to talk vol off the ledge before they reached enlightenment and just accepted vol same way one comes to terms with the inevitable unpleasantness o' monsoons, taxes, and michael bay films.  

the shtick is vol being vol. 

am not attacking vol character, 'cause vol, in his defense, is not the one who has changed. 2020 vol is same as 2001 vol and if he were funny then and not now is 'cause our perception o' the shtick has changed. not vol's fault.

regardless, am recognizing the impossibility o' making headway 'gainst monsoon vol. he has made a fundamental mistake which is obvious to just about everybody, and the mistake is not that he disapproves o' blm or antifa. as we has noted already, Gromnir has a kinda passionate dislike o' antifa, particular as members is typical younger and educated, and those is the folks we is hopeful will manage to fix problems as they has done in past generations. can't fully express our disappointment with antifa. is not vol's position on blm and antifa which is the problem, and he don't get that either.

oh well.

the true mind boggling reality for Gromnir is not vol intransigence but fact vol is no longer an outlier. the shtick is not funny in part 'cause is race and not games features, but is all the more disturbing 'cause when we hear vol rail 'gainst blm and antifa, we hear his unreasonableness echoing far beyond this message board. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Volourn]

Don't call them 'mistakes'. Mistakes are oopsies not design. Why do you make stuff up?

 

BLM and Antifa says cops and white people must be murdered. Cops and white people are murdered. Not a coincidence.

KKK says black people are animals and must be murdered. Black people are murdered. Not a coincidence.

In conclusion, BLM/Antifa/KKK are hateful racist organizations that must be called out for their evil.

 

P.S. It is also funny since I've had no problem trash talking the police including the Flloyd case. IMAGINE THAT. I call evil people on their evil crap. Meanwhile, Grom and co still defend BLM and Antifa for their evil crap icnlduing their cold blooded murder of a young black protestor who was trying to leave a protest that was getting violent and she got murdered by BLM. And, when I posted that here hardly anyone gave a crap about her life. Because they'd rather defend BLM and Antifa murderers not innocent people.

 

Capiche?

Edited July 16, 2020 by Volourn

[Gromnir]

from merriam-webster... good enough 

mistake noun
Definition of mistake (Entry 2 of 2)
1: a wrong judgment : MISUNDERSTANDING
2: a wrong action or statement proceeding from faulty judgment, inadequate knowledge, or inattention

your posted response proves our point. all you got going for you on this issue is pugnacity. you ascribe a viewpoint to blm and antifa based on actions or words o' individuals you frequent have no idea regarding their actual connection to either group. furthermore, conflating antifa with blm is just ridiculous, but you persist in this as well. you are pugnacious.

until you overcome your initial and fundamental mistakes, progress is doomed.

Fighting alone. I’m a GOP governor. Why didn’t Trump help my state with coronavirus testing?

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Gromnir
added the larry hogan piece. is genuine worth the read if you are able to access it.

[Darkpriest]

I've seen some fuss on headlines around a Nick Cannon guy. Who's that? 

 

[Orogun01]

Have we spoken about Trump's executive order for seizing the assets of companies that are against ;directly or indirectly, the Hong Kong protests?

Edited July 16, 2020 by Orogun01

[Volourn]

"I've seen some fuss on headlines around a Nick Cannon guy. Who's that? "

He's an actor/entertainer. One I've actually liked and was disspaointed when he got fired from AGT.

Anyways, he repeated claims that whgite people are animals and less than human because they don't have 'magic' flowing through them. Nobody cared about that.

But, he also attacked jewish people. He got jumped on for that, and lost his internet show and apologized for his anti jewish slander. Did not apologize for his anti white comments, though.

 

He still has his tv job, though.

[Darkpriest]

9 hours ago, Orogun01 said:

Have we spoken about Trump's executive order for seizing the assets of companies that are against ;directly or indirectly, the Hong Kong protests?

Not yet. It's not unexpected. When COVID hit, I made some prediction, that either comapnies will start decoupling from China on their own, or Trump at some point will make them do so. 

 

The thing is, he is too weak and unless coming short of calling them terrorists and starting a war, he will have no tools. 

 

There is a point though, that the same companies, that call for social justices and are virtue signaling in USA and EU, keep their mouth shut or bend their butts for China's ruling party. 

 

Barr voiced an opinion, which is generally true - in terms of planning. Chinese make decisions with decades in mind, while corporate heads make decisions with the next earnings call in mind (i've seen this first hand). He did not add also the point, where we are governed and make political and economic decisions based on the election calendar. This is why the more "diverse" and more split society is, the less potent and weaker it becomes. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Darkpriest

[Darkpriest]

@Volourn

So it seems to me, that he got a privilaged treatment compared to a person of another descend, if that person would say the same words but replaced the color with another. 

 

This viewpoint is also an interesting to listen. 

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Darkpriest

[Orogun01]

17 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

Not yet. It's not unexpected. When COVID hit, I made some prediction, that either comapnies will start decoupling from China on their own, or Trump at some point will make them do so. 

 

The thing is, he is too weak and unless coming short of calling them terrorists and starting a war, he will have no tools. 

 

There is a point though, that the same companies, that call for social justices and are virtue signaling in USA and EU, keep their mouth shut or bend their butts for China's ruling party. 

 

Barr voiced an opinion, which is generally true - in terms of planning. Chinese make decisions with decades in mind, while corporate heads make decisions with the next earnings call in mind (i've this first hand). He did not add also the point, where we are governed and make political and economic decisions based on the election calendar. This is why the more "diverse" and more split society is, the less potent and weaker it becomes. 

Considering the fact that China has been:

Buying American houses through businesses
Financing American businesses
Paying professors at Ivy league schools.
Financing Third world economies in Africa and America

All for the sake of gaining an ideological and economical dominance of the US and the world, I would say that this is at least a good step in turning back the tide against China. Someone else said this but I agree "China is the Nazi Germany of our times" With the Uyghurs camps,  human rights violations and wanton seizures of foreign territory; I more than inclined to agree that at least it is an apt comparison.

[Volourn]

It is 2020. Asians are white. So many articles attacking Asians as being 'too privleged'. I've even seen BLM/Antifa oriented articles attacking latinos as 'racist' because they largely aren't on the streets committing all sorts of crimes 'in the name of justice'. Not to mention the anti black sentiment when a black person doesn't parrot BLM/Antifa's talking point.

 

Just ask a certain celeb who was considered brave when he came out to talk about being a victim of sexual harassment but is now being called all sorts of names because he hasn't drank the BLM/Antifa koolaid.

[BruceVC]

On 7/16/2020 at 9:21 AM, Guard Dog said:

The founder of BLM Canada seems like such a nice lady: https://torontosun.com/2017/02/11/black-lives-matter-co-founder-appears-to-label-white-people-defects/wcm/2748a714-f567-4344-8c08-decfe73d1e52

What a lot of nonsense, she has no clue what she is saying 

[Darkpriest]

@Volourn

I'd be even more concerned, if this is a real problem.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/europe-rape-victims-accused-racism

I'd not be able to verify it, as I'd not have enough time to research the topic, but it does fall in line of experiences and observations of some of the people i know personally and living in UK, France, Germany, Sweden and Norway. They can be biased and not representative, but they get that feeling for some reason, right? 

 

 

[Azdeus]

3 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

@Volourn

I'd be even more concerned, if this is a real problem.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/europe-rape-victims-accused-racism

I'd not be able to verify it, as I'd not have enough time to research the topic, but it does fall in line of experiences and observations of some of the people i know personally and living in UK, France, Germany, Sweden and Norway. They can be biased and not representative, but they get that feeling for some reason, right? 

 

 

Ahh, another article that fails to mention that Sweden broadened it's sexual harassment and rape laws in the last few years.

[Amentep]

3 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

@Volourn

I'd be even more concerned, if this is a real problem.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/europe-rape-victims-accused-racism

I'd not be able to verify it, as I'd not have enough time to research the topic, but it does fall in line of experiences and observations of some of the people i know personally and living in UK, France, Germany, Sweden and Norway. They can be biased and not representative, but they get that feeling for some reason, right? 

 

 

from the article (and emphasis mine) : "Ella's attempts to highlight the "religious and racist aspects" of her and many other girls' similar abuse led only to "a lot of abuse from far-left extremists, and radical feminist academics," she said. Such groups "go online and they try to resist anyone they consider to be a Nazi, racist, fascist or white supremacist".

Oh, NOW I see why you tagged Volourn on your post...

[Darkpriest]

17 minutes ago, Azdeus said:

Ahh, another article that fails to mention that Sweden broadened it's sexual harassment and rape laws in the last few years.

How would that affect the claimed victim-blaming? I understand that the total number of assaults could go up, but would it affect the approach to people who report as victims? 

[Azdeus]

20 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

How would that affect the claimed victim-blaming? I understand that the total number of assaults could go up, but would it affect the approach to people who report as victims? 

Victim blaming when it comes to rape goes back to way before, way way back, so I don't really raise an eyebrow, and I've not actually heard any claims of the victims being racist.

I did read through a few of the linked articles and the RT one for instance went trough the typical spiel of Sweden doubling it's crime rate when it comes to rape the past few years.

[Darkpriest]

28 minutes ago, Azdeus said:

Victim blaming when it comes to rape goes back to way before, way way back, so I don't really raise an eyebrow, and I've not actually heard any claims of the victims being racist.

I did read through a few of the linked articles and the RT one for instance went trough the typical spiel of Sweden doubling it's crime rate when it comes to rape the past few years.

If you live there and think that this is a non-issue, then good for you. 

I can't verify one way or the other, so I can rely only on some other people opinions and perception. 

Others had some other feeling, so I guess it's all about what you experienced. 

I'd love to hear here from some more Swedes, especially women in their 20s.

I can't pull the ones I've met in Gdansk in Poland to write their experiences of what they've been talking about in hushed voice. 

[Darkpriest]

Hah... 

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-07-15/teenage-boy-was-given-estrogen-developed-breast-tissue-while-in-l-a-county-juvenile-hall-lawsuit-alleges

https://nypost.com/2020/07/17/teen-boy-grew-breasts-from-estrogen-prescribed-in-jail-lawsuit-says/

This is... Why would you do that? Man hating?

[Darkpriest]

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/seattle-city-council-member-suggests-firing-white-officers-massive-reduction-police

True or False? 

If true, why would it be acceptable? 

[Amentep]

1 hour ago, Darkpriest said:

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/seattle-city-council-member-suggests-firing-white-officers-massive-reduction-police

True or False? 

If true, why would it be acceptable? 

The statement from the councilwoman quoted is true, but she doesn't in that tweet (or in the group of tweets those are  part of) suggest firing of white officers, specifically, on a criteria of race.  She offers no criteria at all, but suggests only that firings could be approved to be on the basis of some other criteria than seniority, thus not having a reduction in force affect the diversity on the force based on the idea that the senior parts of the force are not as diverse as the junior.  

Unfortunately the article (and several people on twitter) leapt to the assumption that the only categories that could possibly be chosen are seniority and race.  There are other theoretically neutral categories that could be used that don't rely on race or seniority either that could be used to eliminate positions without eliminating diversity in the workforce (if that was a goal). You could look at evaluations, commendations and discipline records.  You could make everyone re-interview for the  jobs that are kept. You could theoretically even choose a criteria based on who not to be in the elimination pool as opposed to who should be eliminated (say, protecting officers who serve in the community they live from being in the pool of officers eligible to be reduced*, or creating a statistical model and preserving top performers). Reductions in force are a minefield, and they'll want good HR teams and lawyers to work with to make sure whatever criteria they choose doesn't violate employment laws (local or federal).

*I think this may be doable, but as I haven't actually seen this one done, and I'm not a HR expert, its possible that may violate some statute somewhere.  I just know that with calls for community policing, it may be desirable for an police force to want to keep officers who live in the city they work.

EDIT: I should add that they may not be able to choose seniority as a criteria, legally, if it eliminates almost entirely on racial lines anyhow as that could also violate employment laws.  This would be true with any other criteria picked as well if it disproportionately affected a specific race.

[213374U]

7 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

This viewpoint is also an interesting to listen.

Perhaps, though I would say that he isn't cautioning against diversity per se, but rather against what he argues are unfair (and borderline illegal?) forms of affirmative action. He doesn't make a single argument against diversity itself.

I don't see the point of the video, other than perhaps as a source of income for the author. Those companies aren't going to change anything because they only rally to the cause du jour for optics -- they have no deeper ethical commitment. And those watching the video are most likely both powerless to effect change and already convinced.