Politics XXXIV (Politics never changes)

[213374U]

Continued from

  

On 2/28/2020 at 7:14 PM, Gromnir said:

On 2/28/2020 at 3:57 PM, Guard Dog said:

You wonder why I'm cynical. I wonder why you aren't.

misrepresenting our lack o' cynicism. am personal  much concerned 'bout a number o' issues and trends. however, when gd beats drum and howls that it don't matter who is chosen from either o' the two major parties in national elections, then we balk. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

On 2/28/2020 at 4:30 PM, ComradeMaster said:

Yes the same John McCain who gleefully supported the arming of East Europe Nazi's against the Eval Wussians.  Sign me up!  My generation is SOOO red-pilled for this Cold War 2.0 crap.  

  

On 2/28/2020 at 5:34 PM, Guard Dog said:

 

6 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Too funny not to share!

 

Edited February 29, 2020 by 213374U
vignettes are people too

[213374U]

Afghanistan's Taliban, US sign agreement aimed at ending war

So in a little over a year, international forces will have to leave Afghanistan for good. That huge ass MIC ain't just for show, so I wonder who the next victim will be come 2021.

[injurai]

Yoooo, that Tonya Harding pic is too real.

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, 213374U said:

Afghanistan's Taliban, US sign agreement aimed at ending war

So in a little over a year, international forces will have to leave Afghanistan for good. That huge ass MIC ain't just for show, so I wonder who the next victim will be come 2021.

It is unlikely this going to lead to any lasting peace from the Taliban, they dont understand progression and sustainable, happy citizens with governments that deliver services and real quality of life. Like the Gulf States in the ME

The Taliban hopefully should mess this up and force the USA to stay for a while longer  but they have to leave at some time. Bin Laden is dead and the Taliban hide in the Western areas of Pakistan in villagers that are hostile to foreign interlopers so its difficult to defeat them militarily

 I just dont believe the Afghan army will be able to defeat the Taliban on there own if the Coalition leaves Afghanistan 

 

 

[Guard Dog]

Big congrats to Joe Biden for winning the South Carolina Primary yesterday. One step closer to a brokered convention. After Super Tuesday 50% of the delegates will be pledged. With a pretty even split in two days the path to 1991 and first ballot nomination will be too narrow to squeeze through for any of them. Then the fun REALLY begins! So go Pete B and Go Amy! Scoop up some of those delegates! 

The only way this year could get any better is if Trump had a credible Primary challenger. Instead he's got Weld who won more votes as Gary Johnson's running mate for the LP then he did Primary votes as a Trump challenger. Too bad. A primary challenger MIGHT have saved the soul of the GOP.

 

By the way... if you are a US Citizen your share of the national debt is $72,344.02 as of 07:44 central US time. The ratio of debt to GDP is 107.09%. In 2000 it was 58.96%. In 1980 it was 34.52%. No one on your ballot for President, House, or Senate is even talking about doing anything about this. In fact they are, every last one of them, promising to spend a f--k of a lot more. 

Tick.... tock.... tick.... tock....

Edited March 1, 2020 by Guard Dog
And another thing

[Zoraptor]

Kind of amusing watching the media spin the SC result as being the Berniepocalypse. Much as last time with Clinton and her winning in the south it's completely irrelevant to being a good candidate overall, since the only scenario in which the Dems win SC vs Trump is a landslide one where they win anyway. And Biden did atrociously in the states which they'll actually need to win to beat Trump.

A brokered convention would be hilarious and cringe/ facepalm inducing, in equal measure.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

South Carolina is notable because it's the first primary Biden has won in 3 decades of running for president.

[Bartimaeus]

To be fair, that's 3 attempts now with the first two having ended almost immediately, so not as meaningful as it sounds.

We're definitely headed for a brokered convention at this rate, though - looking like an awfully polarized Democratic electorate...

Edited March 1, 2020 by Bartimaeus

[Guard Dog]

14 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

To be fair, that's 3 attempts now with the first two having ended almost immediately, so not as meaningful as it sounds.

We're definitely headed for a brokered convention at this rate, though - looking like an awfully polarized Democratic electorate...

When it happens the young communists that are supporting Bernie are not going to take it well when he is not the nominee. Especially if he has the plurality of the pledged delegates. And he won't be the nominee if he misses the magic number of 1991. The Superdelegates not going to have him. I can't wait to watch this show!

Edited March 1, 2020 by Guard Dog

[Bartimaeus]

For as much as Bernie swears by and leans on support from youth, they've still been such an incredibly inconsistent and weak voter bloc this primary and last - the bulk of the blame will fall on them for not turning out if he does not win. They all spit rage at Trump and then complain that Democrats like Biden and Buttigieg are hardly better, and then don't bother to show up for the guy whom they overwhelmingly apparently love come primary day.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Bartimaeus

[Zoraptor]

I think you'd also have to question how committed the Democratic Party is to getting out the youth vote for the nomination process though, as compared to older demos. It's all very well to blame youth, but if older voters are being actively courted and encouraged to turn up and they aren't it does make a difference too. As a strategy it's immensely short sighted and was a major problem last time in the presidential election when youth didn't turn out for the enthusiasm black hole that was Hillary Clinton, but it's not exactly surprising that a party establishment that wants to blame Russia, Bernie, anyone but themselves for losing last time will repeat the exact same mistakes again. Even with South Carolina being an open primary the focus would be on getting turn out from D party members who tend to be older, more little c conservative and intrinsically less prone to vote for Bernie.

Overall I get the distinct impression that some of the more ludicrous talking heads on especially MSNBC are representative of mainstream capital P Party thinking- they'd expect and prefer 4 more years of Trump rather than a Sanders nomination. The great thing about suppressing the youth vote is that you always have someone to blame- those feckless zoomers who were far too busy doing ice box challenges and planking to vote as they're meant to for the awe inspiring, totally hip and not at all 1990s option of Bloomberg/ Clinton or whatever charisma singularity they favour.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Zoraptor

[Guard Dog]

59 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

For as much as Bernie swears by and leans on support from youth, they've still been such an incredibly inconsistent and weak voter bloc this primary and last - the bulk of the blame will fall on them for not turning out if he does not win. They all spit rage at Trump and then complain that Democrats like Biden and Buttigieg are hardly better, and then don't bother to show up for the guy whom they overwhelmingly apparently love come primary day.

You're not wrong there. And they are unreliable on election day as well. One problem though is Zor is 100% right. the Democrats tend to take them for granted. The problem with the youth vote is they don't have money. The boomers, educated Gen X'ers and such are the ones making campaign donations. So, the youth will get speeches and get on camera. But when the time comes to actually pass out cookies it's the folks who write the checks that get the bites. 

[Bartimaeus]

Problem with that is that Bernie has earned the most money through this primary season by a bit, and with an utterly ludicrous amount of individual donors - which you would think would translate to turnout and votes, but...hasn't really? The youth turnout has been right about the same or even a little lower than usual. Biden, in comparison, hasn't even had any money to advertise or organize a ground game in Super Tuesday states while Sanders has been hammering most of them with both. Still not really translating to votes, though.

[Guard Dog]

53 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

Problem with that is that Bernie has earned the most money through this primary season by a bit, and with an utterly ludicrous amount of individual donors - which you would think would translate to turnout and votes, but...hasn't really? The youth turnout has been right about the same or even a little lower than usual. Biden, in comparison, hasn't even had any money to advertise or organize a ground game in Super Tuesday states while Sanders has been hammering most of them with both. Still not really translating to votes, though.

Maybe the problem with the youth vote is there isn't enough of them to make a difference. I never gave a damn about politics until. I was in my mid 20s and actually working on a campaign.

[ShadySands]

Mayor Pete is out

My news feed has barely been anything else besides Sanders hit pieces for the last week or so.

Regarding South Carolina, Biden was always supposed to have that state on lockdown. I wouldn't be surprised if the south carries Biden to the nomination and then obviously goes Trump in the general. I wouldn't count Sanders out but in the end I don't think it really matters who loses to Trump.

Edited March 2, 2020 by ShadySands

[Bartimaeus]

That's bad news for Bernie. Both Biden and Warren can probably now figure to get above 15% in California, which will hurt Bernie a lot.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I'm wondering just how bad it will go if Sanders gets a plurality of votes but the candidacy is given to someone else. I get the feeling a lot of Sanders fans are Vote Blue No Matter Who types this time around but between the demoralization of such folks and the effects of the DNC showing its whole ass I think a lot of the people will stay home and we'll see low turnout. The Dems seem to be banking on VBNMW sentiment about Trump and a calculated risk the Orange Man will be better for their donors their future electoral politics than if Bernie gets elected but given how absolutely wrong the galaxy brain centrists have been this past decade has me thinking something is going to go spectacularly wrong for them.

[BruceVC]

20 hours ago, BruceVC said:

It is unlikely this going to lead to any lasting peace from the Taliban, they dont understand progression and sustainable, happy citizens with governments that deliver services and real quality of life. Like the Gulf States in the ME

The Taliban hopefully should mess this up and force the USA to stay for a while longer  but they have to leave at some time. Bin Laden is dead and the Taliban hide in the Western areas of Pakistan in villagers that are hostile to foreign interlopers so its difficult to defeat them militarily

 I just dont believe the Afghan army will be able to defeat the Taliban on there own if the Coalition leaves Afghanistan 

 

 

What do you think is strange about my view, it is  true around these negotiations  but I am not explaining it properly....but what is your opinion on troops in Afghanistan and the future of the USA involvement. But just to set some context which I assume we would agree on, the invasion of Afghanistan was 100 % legitimate and had to happen because the Taliban were sheltering AQ and refused to hand Bin Laden over. So its important this truth because it can change how we think about Iraq and Afghanistan. So basically now there is a real question about how much longer the USA needs to be in Afghanistan, because there is real and progressive society changes in Kabul only but not in the wilderness

I am always concerned if anyone who has served there country in the military disagrees with me around the ME because you actually went there on the ground....now this doesn't mean you are authoritative about the current war in Afghanistan and how to end it 

The reason I have to ask this is sometimes historically  comments on this forum and outside only  seem to care about any deaths the USA may cause in some campaign  and how the USA is " slaughtering civilians " yet when we see countless civilian deaths by ISIS or the Russians bombed hospitals and Aleppo to the dark ages we hardly heard any concern?

Guys the reality is we dont need to entertain the false narrative that says " The USA must leave the ME and stop interfering in the affairs of ME countries ...also the USA must stop involving itself where its not wanted ....by 2010 I believed this and was very supportive of how Obama was getting troops out of the USA." I was very glad this was happening because I was very jaded at the time and was tired of the constant criticism and endless repetition of how people always ignored the sectarian violence in Iraq but considered the USA  the enemy

The USA did leave Iraq but came back years later because Netanyahu played Trump like a master.....so the USA now is back in the ME and is preparing or planning some Iran invasion but there are serious calculations before anyone takes a military decision 

So in closing, I believe the USA should leave Afghanistan because the realistic mission is done....but lets see what happens 

 

 

[BruceVC]

9 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

For as much as Bernie swears by and leans on support from youth, they've still been such an incredibly inconsistent and weak voter bloc this primary and last - the bulk of the blame will fall on them for not turning out if he does not win. They all spit rage at Trump and then complain that Democrats like Biden and Buttigieg are hardly better, and then don't bother to show up for the guy whom they overwhelmingly apparently love come primary day.

 

5 hours ago, KaineParker said:

I'm wondering just how bad it will go if Sanders gets a plurality of votes but the candidacy is given to someone else. I get the feeling a lot of Sanders fans are Vote Blue No Matter Who types this time around but between the demoralization of such folks and the effects of the DNC showing its whole ass I think a lot of the people will stay home and we'll see low turnout. The Dems seem to be banking on VBNMW sentiment about Trump and a calculated risk the Orange Man will be better for their donors their future electoral politics than if Bernie gets elected but given how absolutely wrong the galaxy brain centrists have been this past decade has me thinking something is going to go spectacularly wrong for them.

Ironically both you guys supporting Sanders concerns me the most about where his base come from and what would they expect from him if he somehow  did win. And I am not criticizing you guys because you can support anyone you want if you have a valid reason for what  changes you believe they can implement and what happens if somehow Sanders cannot deliver on something like " I want to breakup the banks from 2008 " ....I think he has dropped this thankfully. So if he cannot deliver on him promises how would you feel considering it has been raised by many people he has created very populist policies that normally dont get implemented in countries that are like the USA 

And I know you guys from this forum so I have come to understand your views on the USA which have always surprised me as they came across as unnecessarily negative about the good the USA has done and also guys how many people are desperate to immigrate to the USA for a better life despite the rhetoric about how terrible the USA is under Trump ....the reality being people outside the USA see things very differently. 

Sanders to me has created this list of " I am going to address this problem in the USA that has only been a problem since I have identified it as target of populist rhetoric who blame it for inequality "  ....I am joking but his list is things like 

• cancelling student debt, why cant students pay back any debt if they took a loan?Each case should be identified separately but we see this in SA in our universities where students are seem to think they can just make demands about not paying historical debt because.....they dont have money 

But he has a good website of what his policies are going to be, https://berniesanders.com/issues/

As I always mention I like Bernie personally and dont like Trump personally yet I truly believe Trump must beat Sanders because his policies can potentially cause real harm to the US economy which impacts everyone.

Finally the large number of populist views from Democratic candidates are being spawned by the Trump  vitriol and perceived rejection  so you can argue that Trump has created these Democrat policies because he has caused such anger ....so maybe Trump knows he will destroy Bernie exactly because he is so extreme. We must ask who is the best candidate to defeat Trump.....lets at least vote for that person?

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by BruceVC

[Bartimaeus]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/02/texas-polling-sites-closures-voting

Good old voter suppression.

[Guard Dog]

Klobuchar has bowed out. Only one sane candidate left... Bloomberg. 

[Maedhros]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/bear-attack-allena-hansen-face-bernie-sanders-healthcare-insurance-2020-election-super-tuesday-a9370156.html

"Literally, as I was being eaten by a wild beast, I wasn't thinking about Jesus or my family or my son. I was thinking my insurance was not going to pay for this,"

[Hurlshort]

I don't understand how anyone looks at our medical insurance system and thinks it works in any way. Companies are raking in huge profits while everyone struggles with medical debt. We managed to create an education system that is open and free to everyone without turning into a communist dystopia, so I'm pretty sure we can find a way to cover healthcare costs.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejapsen/2019/08/04/as-sanders-and-warren-attack-private-health-insurer-profits-soar/#7aa7e83c532b

Edited March 2, 2020 by Hurlshot

[Gfted1]

We need some huge VAT's up in here.

[ktchong]

I'd give you a ****ing good reason why we should have single-payer universal healthcare:

I am fairly young and in good health, so I bought an insurance plan that has high co-pays and a high deductible.     So three weeks ago I came down with flu-like syndromes.  I suspected that I might have gotten COVID-19, i.e., the Chinese coronavirus.  I came in contact with a lot of Chinese who travel in and out of the country, so I might have gotten the infection from one of them.  COVID-19 is fatal for older people and people who have preexisting health issues.  I am in good health.  I recovered after a week.  So COVID-19 was not a problem for me.  However, it is a certainly problem for OTHER people around me, for the community, and for the country.

The thing about COVID-19 is that, even after someone got sicked and recovered, he could still be a carrier.  I had thought about going to a clinic and doctor to get diagnosed.  However, I changed my mind when I found out it would cost me over over $3,000 out-of-pocket to get screened for COVID-19.  As I said, I am healthy.  I have recovered from whatever I got.  So the only reason I would go to spend over $3,000 of my own money to get screen for coronavirus is to do it for the sake of OTHER people.   I don't have any close friends or relatives who are old or sick , so I would be spending $3,000 of my own money for the sake of STRANGERS.

So...  why should I?  $3,000 is quite a bit of money.

If we had universal healthcare, I would have gotten screened for COVID-19 for free or with minimal expenses.    Truth be told: I certainly ain't gonna pay over $3,000 out of my own pocket for other people and strangers.  I have insurance, and I still can't really afford to see a doctor or go to a clinic when I need it, (well, I certainly don't want to spend thousands of dollars out of my own pocket to protect other people and strangers when it is no longer my problem.)

And think about this: given that, in America, everyone is out for themselves and do not really give a damn about anyone else.  That is the pathos of America.  Most old people vote Republican or for establishment anyway.  Like, the people who think universal healthcare and Medicare-for-All is "socialism".   So, if those people got sick from COVID-19 and die... well, whatever.  Good riddance, I supposed.   It is them who don't want universal healthcare anyway.  Karma.

Anyway, have to go out and possibly be super... like, a super spreader. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by ktchong