ShadySands Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 20 minutes ago, Malcador said: Wasn't it just that one guy ? That's what "they" want you to think 1 Free games updated 3/4/21
Gromnir Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 20 minutes ago, Malcador said: Wasn't it just that one guy ? yes. nevertheless, if you are looking to make a point and wanna claim technical accuracy... sure, am suspecting is other bernie crazies out there in America. shady jokes, but am betting there is more than a few loons who managed to work their way up the volunteer hierarchy o' any number o' campaigns desperate for warm bodies willing to do work for no and near-no pay. don't need look particular hard. fact you got one or a dozen is hardly surprising. am gonna mention this again, 'cause is still mind boggling to us, but trump keeps attacking windmills.... and not metaphorical. the guy gets elected President and he public claims the sound from wind turbines causes cancer. the President has, more than once suggested how impeachment and removal o' his corpulent arse from office will lead to literal civil war. am genuine not certain what counts as excessive crazy in 2020 politics. we keep applying a 1980s or 1990s standard and am realizing daily how out of touch we are. the bernie crazy were arrested btw. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Malcador Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 23 minutes ago, ShadySands said: That's what "they" want you to think Bernie Sander confirmed as Illuminati, then. Pretentious. Is an old man. Wants to run the world. 1 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Gromnir Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 5 minutes ago, Malcador said: Bernie Sander confirmed as Illuminati, then. Pretentious. Is an old man. Wants to run the world. on some level, such a revelation would be refreshing. turns out the illuminati is a bunch o' grumpy old ex-hippy peaceniks who want more bank regulation and universal health care? hard to see that kinda illuminati as particularly frightening. HA! Good Fun! 1 2 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
MedicineDan Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 There have been a couple Bernie supporters who advocated or at least predicted violence regarding the primary and general election. I would generally think of that as more hot air than intent, but it's still not cool. I'm not sure if either is still with the Bernie campaign. This sort of stuff is kind of off the reservation fluff most of the time, but if there is evidence these knuckleheads are actually hatching a plan for violence, the feds will have to deal with them. If they're just spotting stuff while being secretly filmed, I say the campaign straightens them out and life goes on. Probably dumped from Sanders' campaign, but we have to get to the point where we don't absolutely destroy people for acting stupid from time to time. "Not for the sake of much time..."
Gromnir Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 today were the first day since impeachment vote we were genuine shocked and disturbed by claims from those defending trump. admitted, the ground kept shifting as Congressmen supporting trump altered their defense o' the President, but were nothing true surprising. we lamented how Congress failure to act on mueller report made it possible for politicians in a post trump America to solicit and accept dirt from foreign powers to alter US elections as long as coordination were short o' criminal conspiracy. were a terrible precedent and one mueller, during the few moments he were animated during testimony, attempted to drive home... and failed. with impeachment we lamented how if trump avoided any kinda meaningful censure for his solicitation o' ukraine to investigate biden, future politicians would be able to not only receive dirt, but could request and coordinate with foreign powers to interfere with US elections with little concern o' sanction. we so undersold the boldness, the arrogance, o' trump's defenders. you not need to be a Constitutional scholar to be nonplussed by wh defense. before trump were elected, we doubt a single senator-- republican, democrat or independent-- would have championed the notion it were ok for a US politician to accept foreign dirt on a political rival w/o informing the fbi o' such communications. am positive no senator would argue a US politician were unimpeachable if they active solicited and coordinated with foreign powers to interfere in domestic elections. today we have sailed beyond the edge o' the map, far beyond any point even Gromnir's cynical soothsaying mighta' foreseen. a good faith belief o' a President or Congressman that their reelection is in the public interest functional insulates such actors from claims their actions is impeachable? will be some who think we are being hyperbolic. nope. this is so far outside our experience and expertise as to be complete uncharted waters. hic sunt dracones 1 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Guard Dog Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gromnir said: today were the first day since impeachment vote we were genuine shocked and disturbed by claims from those defending trump. admitted, the ground kept shifting as Congressmen supporting trump altered their defense o' the President, but were nothing true surprising. we lamented how Congress failure to act on mueller report made it possible for politicians in a post trump America to solicit and accept dirt from foreign powers to alter US elections as long as coordination were short o' criminal conspiracy. were a terrible precedent and one mueller, during the few moments he were animated during testimony, attempted to drive home... and failed. with impeachment we lamented how if trump avoided any kinda meaningful censure for his solicitation o' ukraine to investigate biden, future politicians would be able to not only receive dirt, but could request and coordinate with foreign powers to interfere with US elections with little concern o' sanction. we so undersold the boldness, the arrogance, o' trump's defenders. you not need to be a Constitutional scholar to be nonplussed by wh defense. before trump were elected, we doubt a single senator-- republican, democrat or independent-- would have championed the notion it were ok for a US politician to accept foreign dirt on a political rival w/o informing the fbi o' such communications. am positive no senator would argue a US politician were unimpeachable if they active solicited and coordinated with foreign powers to interfere in domestic elections. today we have sailed beyond the edge o' the map, far beyond any point even Gromnir's cynical soothsaying mighta' foreseen. a good faith belief o' a President or Congressman that their reelection is in the public interest functional insulates such actors from claims their actions is impeachable? will be some who think we are being hyperbolic. nope. this is so far outside our experience and expertise as to be complete uncharted waters. hic sunt dracones It's not illegal if the President does it. The best interest of the President is the best interest of the nation. That is some scary s--t. I was staring at my radio with my jaw hanging open. You know he's going to get away with this. And when he does a precedent is set. THAT is scary. Now think about this for just a moment. If all of the facts of the case were the same and the President was Barack Obama and the Democrats controlled the Senate those same Democrats prosecuting Trump would be defending Obama even in defiance of logic and the Constitution. Just as the Republicans are doing. Remember that next time you tell me it's necessary to choose the lesser evil. Because if that is true then there isn't one. Edited January 30, 2020 by Guard Dog "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Gromnir Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 as much as we disliked obama, we weren't "scared" o' him as President. obama pushed limits o' Constitutional beyond what we believed were appropriate and legal, but try and conjure up a realistic scenario in which we woulda' been in same position with obama as we are with trump and we will disagree. lesser o' two evils has worked fine for multiple centuries. has been a couple o' close calls and a small number who were outright mistakes, but voters stuck with lesser o' evils choices has largely avoided nightmare scenarios. regardless, as much as we disliked the obama Presidency, am thinking is unfair to make trump and obama equivalent... though we will concede how the trump excesses were made more likely by obama and previous Congress playing fast and loose with norms, standards, rules and laws. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Guard Dog Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 17 minutes ago, Gromnir said: regardless, as much as we disliked the obama Presidency, am thinking is unfair to make trump and obama equivalent... though we will concede how the trump excesses were made more likely by obama and previous Congress playing fast and loose with norms, standards, rules and laws. HA! Good Fun! You misunderstand. I was not drawing any comparison between Trump and Obama. My point was moral outrage at the abuse of power of a President (or anyone else) is entirely based on which team that President (or anyone else) plays for. In '73 is was a Republican, Howard Baker, who brought the tapes to public knowledge. After that the Republicans turned on Nixon and he resigned and fled. There are no such people in the House or Senate today. Whatever integrity they had they sold cheaply. And it the President were a Democrat the Democrats would be doing everything Team Trump and the GOP in the House and Senate is doing. There are no angels in hell. Just quarreling devils. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Keyrock Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 ^ That's kind of how people here in Murica get outraged and shocked when they find out Russia has been hacking us, spying on us, and sending us propaganda to stir **** up via fake social media accounts. Of course, we do the same exact thing to the Russians, and likely everyone else, foe or ally. RFK Jr 2024 "Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks
Malcador Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 6 hours ago, Guard Dog said: t's not illegal if the President does it. The best interest of the President is the best interest of the nation I guess they're figuring the Nixon reasoning will work this time around Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Gromnir Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Guard Dog said: You misunderstand. I was not drawing any comparison between Trump and Obama. My point was moral outrage at the abuse of power of a President (or anyone else) is entirely based on which team that President (or anyone else) plays for. In '73 is was a Republican, Howard Baker, who brought the tapes to public knowledge. After that the Republicans turned on Nixon and he resigned and fled. There are no such people in the House or Senate today. Whatever integrity they had they sold cheaply. And it the President were a Democrat the Democrats would be doing everything Team Trump and the GOP in the House and Senate is doing. There are no angels in hell. Just quarreling devils. no, we got you. given the tribalism o' the past decade in particular, we suspect if roles were reversed, democrats would be reflexive defending en masse. however, you did indeed specific use obama as your example/punching bag. has been 45 Presidents and a few o' them weren't even elected to the office. pretend as if they is interchangeable is flawed. as we have noted previous in discussions with gd, am doubtful democrats woulda' circled the wagons for hillary if had done same-- she weren't popular enough to move the party as a whole. you might suggest that your hypothetical is an everything else being equal kinda thing, but is not possible for us to credit such a fantasy. this situation is almost unique with an unpopular President who nevertheless has a stranglehold on his party indulges in the worst kinda self-promotion and outright deceit w/o any care for the republic and the Constitution. is not like lego bricks with one red and one blue. you keep trying to make it democrat v. republican or they v. them and is not so simple. HA! Good Fun! Edited January 30, 2020 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Guard Dog Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 45 Presidents but through most of the first 42 an otherwise friendly Congress has been willing to take them to task. The Democrats had a hammer lock on 87th & 88th Congress and still fought Kennedy over everything. Andrew Johnson is back in the news again. His own party impeached him. Based solely on my own historical recollection (take it for what it's worth) it seems to me a friendly Congress looking the other way while a President does whatever the hell they please is a fairly new development. Mainly 43, 44, & 45. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Maedhros Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 Dissatisfaction with democracy at record high (since tracking started in 1995). https://www.bbc.com/news/education-51281722
Guard Dog Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Keyrock said: ^ That's kind of how people here in Murica get outraged and shocked when they find out Russia has been hacking us, spying on us, and sending us propaganda to stir **** up via fake social media accounts. Of course, we do the same exact thing to the Russians, and likely everyone else, foe or ally. It's hard to believe the Russian masterplan was to go on social media and troll. Post fake stuff and stir everyone up. That's it? That's the best you can do? The KGB would be rolling over in their grave. It's even harder to believe that that BS was actually effective. Seriously Americans, WTF? I thought we all reached a point where every one knows not to believe crap you see on Facebook, Twitter, etc. Aren't we just a Company of Fools after all? As far as hacking the DNC & RNC and leaking their e-mails, they are private entities. Had they had better security SW it wouldn't have happened. Had the DNC staff exercised just a modicum of the professionalism most folks take for granted there would have been nothing to release. But, they are nasty and condescending people and couldn't help themselves. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Gromnir Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 28 minutes ago, Guard Dog said: Based solely on my own historical recollection (take it for what it's worth) it seems to me a friendly Congress looking the other way while a President does whatever the hell they please is a fairly new development. Mainly 43, 44, & 45. myopic. there has been moments and times when Congress refused to act to reign in a President who violated public trust and/or severe exceeded Constitutional purview. the President has more power today than during most o' past, so again, is not exact analogous, but is reason we warned folks to look to andrew johnson trial as 'posed to clinton, 'cause 2020 kinda divisiveness is more akin to civil war Congress than 1990s. abraham lincoln, andrew jackson and thomas jefferson are only the most dramatic examples we would point to which predate 43, 44 and 45. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Gfted1 Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 @Guard Dog: We have anti-vaxxers and flat Earthers, of course there are large amounts of people that believe everything they read. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
ComradeYellow Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) On 1/29/2020 at 10:58 AM, Guard Dog said: Bernie can't win. Not even with her. The US is not ready to elect a 78 year old communist or social democrat or whatever it is he calls himself. A 5 minute you tube search will turn up enough damming comments from him to doom his candidacy. His comments supporting Castro and Ortega in the 80s will cost him South Florida which means he can't win Florida. Bernie could actually drive Democrat voters to Trump. Or, more likely, have them stay home. He'll win the young votes. Maybe even some of the minority votes. But that is not enough by half. Unless Trump is damaged in this impeachment dumpster fire or somehow implodes (always a distinct possibility with him) a Bernie nomination guarantees his re-election. Yes he's a Democrat and has "socialist" -whatever that word means anymore- leanings, and he will drive the Hillbilly Democrat and Trump base together if he wins. Which is why I never supported him. Old Rotten Party and Old Rotten rheteroic. Leftism needs a fresh perspective, and these idiots on team blue don't offer it. @Keyrock Seriously, who gets outraged by this "Russian meddling" other than the DNC/media/elite class? I don't know anyone in real life who has ever complained about Russians meddling in the 2016 election. THen again, I don't hang out with many baby boomer DNC loyalists so... Edited January 30, 2020 by ComradeMaster
Zoraptor Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 41 minutes ago, Guard Dog said: It's hard to believe the Russian masterplan was to go on social media and troll. Post fake stuff and stir everyone up. That's it? That's the best you can do? Going on social media and trolling is easy, and when you have strongly polarised political poles it's also very effective because either side will often literally literally believe anything that makes the other side look bad, no matter how ridiculous that thing actually is. You don't have to do much actual work at all, you can throw masses of illogical stuff at a wall and see what sticks, and the social part of social media does all the real work of propagating it. You also don't have to make one side look good, just making the other side look bad is enough; and you don't have to convince everyone either, you just have to convince some. And yeah, it's kind of funny that blaming Russia ends up using exactly the same phenomenon that the Russians took advantage of in the first place- telling the D establishment that they didn't really stuff up and it was all the dirty Russians' and their patsy Trump's fault, and the US in general that people don't really believe crackpot theories at the drop of a hat they're just manipulated by a foreign power to do so are exactly the sort of simplistic but appealing stuff that the Russians put out there. It's always more appealing to believe that the boogeyman did it than to admit that you made a mistake.
Gromnir Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Guard Dog said: It's hard to believe the Russian masterplan was to go on social media and troll. am not certain if you is being sarcastic. is a long video, and am understanding why you wouldn't watch the whole thing, but is worth viewing if you wanna hear how at least a few folks see the new kinda asymmetrical warfare which is becoming more prevalent 'mongst US adversaries. look at fraudulent facebook posts as insular is problematic. US has indeed been reactive to individual efforts by russians, chinese, iranians and others w/o recognizing the fact that each incursion is part o' larger and broader efforts. optics o' facebook and twitter nonsense is that such petty and minor keeps such attacks beneath response threshold. https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4822045/user-clip-hr-mcmaster&start=605 HA! Good Fun! ps whether you agree with opinions o' speakers in video is irrelevant. am posting 'cause these folks who, like 'em or nor not is experts, view 2020 security issues holistic. gotta get out o' the cold war threats mentality. Edited January 30, 2020 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
ComradeYellow Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 And why nobody talks about Israeli collusion and laser focuses on Russia is beyond my millennial ass. Old people...
Guard Dog Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 27 minutes ago, Gromnir said: am not certain if you is being sarcastic. is a long video, and am understanding why you wouldn't watch the whole thing, but is worth viewing if you wanna hear how at least a few folks see the new kinda asymmetrical warfare which is becoming more prevalent 'mongst US adversaries. look at fraudulent facebook posts as insular is problematic. US has indeed been reactive to individual efforts by russians, chinese, iranians and others w/o recognizing the fact that each incursion is part o' larger and broader efforts. optics o' facebook and twitter nonsense is that such petty and minor keeps such attacks beneath response threshold. https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4822045/user-clip-hr-mcmaster&start=605 HA! Good Fun! ps whether you agree with opinions o' speakers in video is irrelevant. am posting 'cause these folks who, like 'em or nor not is experts, view 2020 security issues holistic. gotta get out o' the cold war threats mentality. Yeah I know there was a lot more to it than facebook trolling. That part just strikes me as so laughably stupid that it shouldn't have been near as effective as it was. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Guard Dog Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 34 minutes ago, Zoraptor said: And yeah, it's kind of funny that blaming Russia ends up using exactly the same phenomenon that the Russians took advantage of in the first place- telling the D establishment that they didn't really stuff up and it was all the dirty Russians' and their patsy Trump's fault, and the US in general that people don't really believe crackpot theories at the drop of a hat they're just manipulated by a foreign power to do so are exactly the sort of simplistic but appealing stuff that the Russians put out there. It's always more appealing to believe that the boogeyman did it than to admit that you made a mistake. That is a good point "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Guard Dog Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Maedhros said: Dissatisfaction with democracy at record high (since tracking started in 1995). https://www.bbc.com/news/education-51281722 I guess they could try dictatorship for a while and see how that works out. God knows there are plenty of would-be dictators out there. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
ComradeYellow Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Guard Dog said: I guess they could try dictatorship for a while and see how that works out. God knows there are plenty of would-be dictators out there. Or maybe make room for more political parties instead of the giant purple gangster party that dominates the spectrum in DC?
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