Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Owlcat Games' next isometric Pathfinder RPG

[kanisatha]

22 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

I can't see any real explanation for this. Apparently the company has NO good writers at all and very few people with any education in drama, literature, movies and other relative fields. Also, it appears they don't speak English very well, which may, at least in part, contribute to the fact that they don't recognize how ridiculous some of the stuff is. It's also possible that they just don't care.

Seems like when they expanded from the tiny group they started out as at the beginning of the P:Km KS to where they are now as a company, they only loaded up on the technical side and not the creative side (maybe because they felt the sting of the criticism of the buggy release of P:Km). Hope they can change that soon. From what I can gather in some comments in interviews and such, they're beginning to think about their next game.

Edit: To add something further, it's also possible that the weak writing is a reflection of Owlcat using established Paizo TT modules for their games, where the story and characters for the game have already been created by someone else. So Owlcat's thinking maybe: "Why bother hiring dedicated creative people when the creative aspects of the game have already been provided to us? Our technical people can handle simply translating what's in the TT module into the video game."

Edited September 6, 2021 by kanisatha

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Chilloutman said:

well I believe even 'mythic' stuff can be done with bit of taste (my taste of course  ). Frankly most companions and writing is very off putting to me to a point where I am considering full self made party but I am bit scared how much gameplay impact it might have.

 

at least through chapter four, is nothing too significant lost by going full merc party. do the companion quests for the loot and then just leave 'em in camp is gonna short you a handful o' dialogue options you don't want anyways.

but serious, is writing for a crpg and not a novel. by the very nature o' the medium you got limited dialogue-centric opportunities for developing character and then you drop those characters into a chosen one story where gods and demon lords are fighting and not just through proxies. tolkien addressed a similar issue by abandoning character development almost entirely. is almost no plot driven fantasy fiction being written nowadays and we wouldn't be talking 'bout cheesy characters if the tolkien approach were actual in vogue and embraced by owlcat. we would get bg level o' companion interaction and wouldn't think twice 'bout how coran were the most developed character, and a deadbeat dad at that.

however, am gonna need repeat once more so is clear, am acknowledging owlcat writing efforts is  at best eye-roll worthy. 

"writing o' the companions (writing period) were kinda sucktastic in kingmaker. does not bode well if one cares 'bout narrative issues. am thinking owlcat should kinda play to their hack n' slash strengths rather than getting themselves into a situation where enjoyment o' a title depends on quality o' writing."-- Gromnir, 12/5/2019

owlcat writing in kingmaker were not a highpoint o' the title, and wotr, by the very nature o' the story elements which is fixed via the contributions o' paizo, were making it so that anybody expecting other than cheese from owlcat's second title were optimistic beyond reason.

...

from our pov, listening to people complain about owlcat taking the wrath of the righteous ap and making it cheesey is similar to listening to folks complain 'bout the acting and character development in pr0n. yes, the acting and character development in pr0n is almost w/o exception laughable, but is a curious complaint, no?

HA! Good Fun! 

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Gromnir

[xzar_monty]

1 hour ago, kanisatha said:

Seems like when they expanded from the tiny group they started out as at the beginning of the P:Km KS to where they are now as a company, they only loaded up on the technical side and not the creative side (maybe because they felt the sting of the criticism of the buggy release of P:Km). Hope they can change that soon.

Let us hope so.

Owlcat are quite obviously limited by the constraints of the original stories/modules, whose content and tone are pretty much set, but even with these limitations, they're doing a poor job. The constraints they're working under do not force them to use too many exclamation marks, overly cliched or hopelessly over-the-top language and that frigging high-school level overacting in the voice department.

Edited September 6, 2021 by xzar_monty

[Gromnir]

is worth noting that the fact we are having a discussion 'bout cheesey and/or well developed crpg characters requires the recognition o' multiple improbabilities. 

consider your favorite all-time crpg companions. any o' them pre-ps:t? possible dogmeat, and is not 'cause he were well written. ps:t were the first game where companion development were a focus o' the title, and ps:t did not sell. chris avellone, for all our criticism, deserves a whole lotta credit for changing the fundamental crpg paradigm. chris took a chance and complete altered the way crpgs were made and he did so with a sales failure for black isle and interplay. 'course is questionable if the change(s) mr. avellone brought about woulda' stuck if not for the success o' bg2.

bioware also deserves more credit than many is willing to offer. bg1 sold and sold well with a multitude o' companions who had little to offer beyond the four corners o' their character record sheet and a handful o' vo catch phrases. ps:t is released and does not sell well. so in spite o' folks such as Gromnir and others pushing for better character development o' the bg2 companions, what motivation were there for bio to do so save for fact that the biowarians were also fans o' ps:t regardless o' underwhelming sales? bio looked with envy 'pon what chris avellone achieved and wondered how to make such crpg storytelling marketable. sneer if you will, but game developers is in the business o' selling games. too many ps:t players were unable to enjoy the wall o' text dialogues from a few ps:t companions. solution: bioware implemented a loose three-line guideline for bg2 dialogues. just one example o' bio changes.

primarily as a cost and time saving approach, black isle, the developer who made ps:t, released iwd before bg2 and they cut companions complete from their title. iwd ended up saving black isle's arse 'cause it sold well and were cheap. 

so what happens if bg2 has companions same old same old as bg1? diablo 2 is released during same time as bg2 and iwd and is worth recalling that the diablo clones were the most popular crpgs o' the day. does ps:t style companion development become a functional one off?  regardless, an aspect o' crpg development most take for granted were hardly obvious back in early 2000. the fact we all assume companions should be developed beyond a cheesy catchphrase is the result o' improbabilities.

just sayin'

HA! Good Fun!

[bugarup]

4 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

 How is poverty possible if you can literally collect coins from otherwise empty barrels on the side of a random house?

Well, there goes that house owner's hidden annual savings.

[xzar_monty]

Possibly. But we are using "hidden" in a remarkably loose sense.

[Agiel]

The NPCs don't have the Tab key.

[uuuhhii]

too much garbage item and loose change lying around are some weird design choice

[Oner]

Do trash mobs have PC levels in this one too to give us a sense of pride and accomplishment or whatever?

[Vaeliorin]

6 hours ago, Gromnir said:

 

@Vaeliorin

am kinda feeling a disconnect as you observe you are not finding the game particular challenging, but there isn't enough stat boosting 1007? more such goodies would effective make the game even easier, yes? dunno. in the beta, by the time we were in the abyss, the stat boosting items were not rare, but it still made sense to diversify our party 'cause chances are the best stuff were limited. post drezen world map exploration also provides considerable treasure.

be aware, if you are skipping the crusade/army management, you are making a mistake. there is significant loot to be found by conquering opposing armies and if nothing has changed, the best strength boosting item pre drezen is available via an army conflict. am personal just having reached level seven so the relevant battle for the strength belt is not appearing yet on our map, but as everything else is the same thus far, am assuming it will reveal itself in due time. should have multiple +2 items pre drezen and a few +4 including dex and strength.

For the loot, it's not about difficulty, it's more about expected pacing of loot progression.  I'm level 10 and I've found one +3 weapon (a shortbow), and I must have missed all the +4 stat items before Drezen.  Mostly, I'd like to not have to buff as much. 

I'm doing crusade stuff, and cleared every army I felt capable of beating, but some of them (mostly the difficulty 6+ ones) are too hard for me to beat yet.

That said, I'm really loving my character.  I went with Gendarme 1/Divine Hound X and riding around on my wolf tripping things with endless judgement is fun.  I really wish that dirty fighting was in as a feat so I could get my wolf greater trip, but unfortunately that's not the case.  I'm not sure how I'll ever play a character without a mount again, because it's just incredible to have that sort of mobility.  In a level or 2 I should have aspect of the wolf, so I can free action trip things.

[Raithe]

Just been playing through the first few hours of it. Have to admit, I'm getting more of an "Icewind Dale" vibe from it. You don't really have that personal a story hook grab you before dropping you into several hours of dungeon crawl killing.

[xzar_monty]

59 minutes ago, Raithe said:

Just been playing through the first few hours of it. Have to admit, I'm getting more of an "Icewind Dale" vibe from it. You don't really have that personal a story hook grab you before dropping you into several hours of dungeon crawl killing.

I've just played through the first hour or so, perhaps slightly less. It's astonishing how meta-written the stuff is. It's both funny and frustrating. You come across a couple of strange-looking people and strike a conversation. They go something like: "Dude! We are <our race name, just to let you know> which means we're descended from <information, in case you're not familiar with the mechanics>, so we're not exactly able to move around in <spoilery information>. However, we've got such-and-such capacities that you folks probably don't, and if you feel like joining forces we'd be more than happy to, as our combined strength would give us a strategic advantage against all the monsters this dungeon is bound to be filled with -- even if we've been here all the time, which clearly means that we've just been standing still but hey, this is a game. So wanna join up?"

The artificiality is so in-your-face it's unbelievable. I must say this feel QUITE different from the kind of writing games like Deadfire and Disco Elysium aimed at.

[HoonDing]

"Irabeth"

[Amentep]

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