Politics First Contact

[Skarpen]

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

https://fareedzakaria.com/columns/2019/11/7/in-defense-of-mark-zuckerberg

Excellent read about how blaming the likes of Facebook is unfair for much of the divisive and concerning  societal comments and some outcomes we see 

Well some people would like the "authority" to censor opposition, but fail to see the implications of giving someone this power beyond a short term "win".

Edited November 10, 2019 by 213374U
references to removed content

[Raithe]

Election fever sweeps the UK as we all get ready for December...

[ComradeYellow]

14 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Jewishness is only really relevant in the context that neither would be prone to liking neo nazis.

Didn't Richard Spencer praise Israel as a good example of an ethno state and that keeping the Jews contained in Israel was a good thing? Funny because what do Zionists and Fascists have in common?  The absolutely HATE Marxists/Leftists of any stripe.  Remember the Nazi's didn't target the Jews first, they went after the Socialists and the trade unionists, so it makes sense for Zionists and Neo Nazis to form a strange bedfellow these days xD.

[ktchong]

 

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by ktchong

[Malcador]

Natural instinct of humanity is to leave a better world than you found it ? Heh, ok.

[Zoraptor]

Natural instinct is certainly to claim you want to leave a better world than you found. While doing whatever is best for you, now.

And in totally unrelated matters, military coup in progress in Bolivia. Given the location hardly needs a spec of 'CIA backed'; hopefully all the natives who backed Morales won't end up like Guatemala's Mayan minority did after the coup there, ie genocided by School of the Americas death squads. Wonder if the US approved 'candidate' for Bolivia's Presidency will be a drug runner like Hernandez is Honduras as well, using drug money slush funds (another CIA staple, lest we forget) to finance his election campaign.

[Skarpen]

5 hours ago, ktchong said:

 

 

Ugh. Just sick of kids complaining that people worked more years then those kids live have more money than them.

[BruceVC]

15 hours ago, ComradeMaster said:

Didn't Richard Spencer praise Israel as a good example of an ethno state and that keeping the Jews contained in Israel was a good thing? Funny because what do Zionists and Fascists have in common?  The absolutely HATE Marxists/Leftists of any stripe.  Remember the Nazi's didn't target the Jews first, they went after the Socialists and the trade unionists, so it makes sense for Zionists and Neo Nazis to form a strange bedfellow these days xD.

But why would anyone support failed and historically proven flawed ideologies like Marxists\Communists\Leftists, so for example most people outside of Zionists\Facists know these systems of government are not sustainable and you cant show any success stories around them. Its a common view to have

[BruceVC]

3 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Natural instinct is certainly to claim you want to leave a better world than you found. While doing whatever is best for you, now.

And in totally unrelated matters, military coup in progress in Bolivia. Given the location hardly needs a spec of 'CIA backed'; hopefully all the natives who backed Morales won't end up like Guatemala's Mayan minority did after the coup there, ie genocided by School of the Americas death squads. Wonder if the US approved 'candidate' for Bolivia's Presidency will be a drug runner like Hernandez is Honduras as well, using drug money slush funds (another CIA staple, lest we forget) to finance his election campaign.

Oh please Zora " military coup in progress in Bolivia "  is one myopic and biased way of framing this, sure you can see it like that

Or rather how about  " president of country x admits to vast irregularities in last election and  concedes he has to have election again " ....its about the principle of a transparent and free and fair election. Surly you can understand this ?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/10/evo-morales-concedes-to-new-elections-after-serious-irregularities-found

[Zoraptor]

Serious irregularities were not found by actual independent auditors- the OAS is the US client regional organisation and not independent. Unlike in Honduras the independent statistical analysis in Bolivia is that the end results were what was expected from the initial results- Morales always got a surge in support at the end of a count because his supporters tended to be poor and have fewer, larger polling stations available so it takes longer for their votes to be counted relative to the richer opposition supporters with their relatively abundant and smaller stations. That's also why the Honduran election was an obvious fix, as the 'losing' opposition candidate was ahead and should have gone further ahead as the poorer stations came in. Instead they spent two days stuffing ballots.

You've also gone full Gromnir and linked to a 36 hour old article to debunk something that happened... less than a day ago.

[Guard Dog]

It's a little inaccurate to say the OAS is a US client organization. Although it's relevance ended with the Cold War it was never really US controlled. 

[ComradeYellow]

14 hours ago, BruceVC said:

But why would anyone support failed and historically proven flawed ideologies like Marxists\Communists\Leftists, so for example most people outside of Zionists\Facists know these systems of government are not sustainable and you cant show any success stories around them. Its a common view to have

 

[Gorth]

14 hours ago, BruceVC said:

But why would anyone support failed and historically proven flawed ideologies like Marxists\Communists\Leftists, so for example most people outside of Zionists\Facists know these systems of government are not sustainable and you cant show any success stories around them. Its a common view to have

I think somebody better call the Scandinavian governments and let them know, because I think they missed the memo there, about leftist systems not being sustainable

[ComradeYellow]

Nordic supermen/women sure know their marxist-leftism.  Don't you just love dialectical materialism?

Edited November 12, 2019 by ComradeMaster

[Skarpen]

4 hours ago, Gorth said:

I think somebody better call the Scandinavian governments and let them know, because I think they missed the memo there, about leftist systems not being sustainable

And which one of Scandinavian countries have government owning the means of production and central planning economy?

[BruceVC]

5 hours ago, Gorth said:

I think somebody better call the Scandinavian governments and let them know, because I think they missed the memo there, about leftist systems not being sustainable

Scandinavian countries use a successful hybrid model, yes they have working socialist institutions in there public sector. But they still have an independent  private sector, banks and the economies are driven by interaction with " free markets\Capitalist"  rules and laws of global trade

So the Scandinavian countries aren't  true socialist countries compared to what was attempted in numerous failed examples of the " success of socialism " like Venezuela and  Cuba, you always have to have an independent private sector for sustainable and effective economic growth ( the exception being China which is not a Democracy so they have different measurements and outcomes )

[BruceVC]

10 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Serious irregularities were not found by actual independent auditors- the OAS is the US client regional organisation and not independent. Unlike in Honduras the independent statistical analysis in Bolivia is that the end results were what was expected from the initial results- Morales always got a surge in support at the end of a count because his supporters tended to be poor and have fewer, larger polling stations available so it takes longer for their votes to be counted relative to the richer opposition supporters with their relatively abundant and smaller stations. That's also why the Honduran election was an obvious fix, as the 'losing' opposition candidate was ahead and should have gone further ahead as the poorer stations came in. Instead they spent two days stuffing ballots.

You've also gone full Gromnir and linked to a 36 hour old article to debunk something that happened... less than a day ago.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/evo-morales-of-bolivia-accepts-asylum-in-mexico/ar-BBWBCSk?li=AAnZ9Ug

Sorry Zora but there are  many articles from many independent sources that support my view, Morales was a bad leader at the end who tried to cheat and undermine one of the core principles of what defines any Democracy. And quite simply that is  " where you accept defeat, if you have indeed lost,  through the Democratic electoral process  as a governing party and step down " ....this is on him. No need to blame bad leadership on the USA 

 

[ktchong]

 

 

[ComradeYellow]

3 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Scandinavian countries use a successful hybrid model, yes they have working socialist institutions in there public sector. But they still have an independent  private sector, banks and the economies are driven by interaction with " free markets\Capitalist"  rules and laws of global trade

So the Scandinavian countries aren't  true socialist countries compared to what was attempted in numerous failed examples of the " success of socialism " like Venezuela and  Cuba, you always have to have an independent private sector for sustainable and effective economic growth ( the exception being China which is not a Democracy so they have different measurements and outcomes )

Nobody is arguing against Democracy and mixed economies.  That's the proper evolution of leftism.  When someone calls themselves a leftist, chances are that's what they're referring to.  The problem is that here in America, Silicon Valley globalist corporatist types actually call themselves "leftists" when in fact real leftists see them as right wing neoliberals.  So calling yourself a "socialist" is proper the American neoliberal context, due to the American political spectrum being tilted so far to the right.

Edited November 12, 2019 by ComradeMaster

[BruceVC]

3 minutes ago, ComradeMaster said:

Nobody is arguing against Democracy and mixed economies.  That's the proper evolution of leftism.  When someone calls themselves a leftist, chances are that's what they're referring to.  The problem is that here in America, Silicon Valley globalist corporatist types actually call themselves "leftists" when in fact real leftists see them as right wing neoliberals.  So calling yourself a "socialist" is proper the American neoliberal context, due to the American political spectrum being tilted so far to the right.

Interesting post, Im glad you clarified what you mean because its true  people like me tend to respond to certain terms around what we define them to be globally or even symbolically, yet their is nuance and also more importantly different definitions to what we all consider " left and right to be" 

And this definitely can have both different and or similar meanings but we need to look at the actual country where these terms are being used  to understand there colloquial meaning

[213374U]

9 hours ago, Skarpen said:

And which one of Scandinavian countries have government owning the means of production and central planning economy?

I'm so glad that you've finally realized that any self-styled "left" political forces that compromise and do not push for full nationalization and central planning aren't really leftists, but in fact bourgeois infiltrators sabotaging the class war effort.

[ShadySands]

Tulsi is one poll away from making the December debates 

 

These socialism arguments almost always end the same

A: we want this

B: no, that's socialism

A: but blank does it

B: well ackshually...

A: then let's have that

B: no, that's socialism

Edited November 12, 2019 by ShadySands

[Malcador]

Red scare's still strong in the US.

[Guard Dog]

Socialism appeals to envy. This person has more than I do and it's not fair! Waaaaaa. Of course it's all a sham anyway. Bernie and Warren can promise the moon but they will never be able to deliver. The AOCs of the world no withstanding Congress is not going to go along with anything so radical as what those clowns are proposing. So it's all just a show. 

[Guard Dog]

1 hour ago, ShadySands said:

Tulsi is one poll away from making the December debates 

If she gets nominated I'm voting for her. She will be just the second Democrat I will have ever voted for. And the first for President. Probably the last too considering what the Dems are like these days.