Companions/Sidekicks: which should not be single-classed?

[pmchem]

I'm planning my companions / sidekicks for a new veteran (edit: or maybe PotD) game in version 4.1/4.2.  I'd like full coverage of all single-class options so that I have access to all L8/L9 abilities.   Granted, this can be done just through hiring adventurers.  But, I plan to use companions/sidekicks almost all of the time, so I want them to be single-class if possible.  My MC plans are undetermined.

Spreadsheeting things out, I ended up with the following:

Barb: Serafen, Chanter (skald): Konstanten, Cipher: Ydwin, Druid: Tekehu, Fighter: Rekke, Monk: Mirke, Paladin: Pallegina, Priest: Vatnir, Ranger: Maia, Rogue: Eder, Wizard: Aloth

This leaves Xoti (Pri/Monk) and Fassina (Wiz Conjurer / Chanter) as multiclass.

So my main question is, would I be making a big mistake with any of the pure class/character combos listed?  Would I be way better off multiclassing them and just hiring a custom adventurer where I can control subclass if I needed L8/9 skills for some reason?

Edited May 5, 2019 by pmchem

[Jayd]

You'll be fine. I've used most of those in endgame content myself and they do well. Plus it's hard to make a "big mistake" in this game with class choices alone, especially for single class characters.

The only questionable thing imo is Pallegina, since Herald and Crusader are much more popular than pure Paladin, as the multiclasses add great survivability and/or damage while Paladin PL8/9 don't seem lifechanging to me. Never used a pure Paladin though so maybe I'm missing out.

And for Ydwin, Mindstalker is better for straight up weapon damage and quick focus gen because of deathblows, etc., and it has the added utility of Escape and invisibility when in trouble. But SC Cipher has some very powerful utility and doesn't slouch for damage either. I don't think one is strictly better than the other but the difference is significant enough for you to think about.

Edited May 5, 2019 by Jayd

[AndreaColombo]

Interestingly, I never multiclass Xoti. I'm not overly fond of her Monk subclass and I generally prefer to have a Priest with faster progression and access to high-level spells.

I love Tekehu as a pure class Druid, but also find high-level Druid spells to be rather underwhelming. I don't feel like I'm missing out on much by multiclassing him, and those Chanter phrases sure come in handy.

Maia works really well as a Geomancer in my experience.

 

OTOH, I'm curious about other people's experiences building Fassina. Does she work well as a Wizard/Druid?

[pmchem]

1 hour ago, Jayd said:

The only questionable thing imo is Pallegina, since Herald and Crusader are much more popular than pure Paladin, as the multiclasses add great survivability and/or damage while Paladin PL8/9 don't seem lifechanging to me. Never used a pure Paladin though so maybe I'm missing out.

And for Ydwin, Mindstalker is better for straight up weapon damage and quick focus gen because of deathblows, etc., and it has the added utility of Escape and invisibility when in trouble. But SC Cipher has some very powerful utility and doesn't slouch for damage either. I don't think one is strictly better than the other but the difference is significant enough for you to think about.

yeah, Pallegina normally makes sense as a multiclass.  I guess I may want to reconsider that due to her subclass.  Ydwin I hadn't thought about much but she filled the SC clipher slot.

27 minutes ago, AndreaColombo said:

Interestingly, I never multiclass Xoti. I'm not overly fond of her Monk subclass and I generally prefer to have a Priest with faster progression and access to high-level spells.

I'll have Vatnir for pure priest, stat and spell-wise he seems the better choice among the two.  I'll probably use him more in endgame.

[Jayd]

43 minutes ago, AndreaColombo said:

I love Tekehu as a pure class Druid, but also find high-level Druid spells to be rather underwhelming. I don't feel like I'm missing out on much by multiclassing him, and those Chanter phrases sure come in handy.

 Foe-only Ninagauth's Pillar, Maelstrom, and Pollen Patch can all be great. PL8 is kinda weak, though. How many hits does Entropy last for? Feels like 3. It should have a traditional duration.

43 minutes ago, AndreaColombo said:

OTOH, I'm curious about other people's experiences building Fassina. Does she work well as a Wizard/Druid?

I ran her like this last playthrough. I like it more than Chanter for her, but there's not really any secret tech to it that I noticed (just the obvious, like Infuse helping with spells, etc). I'm just a sucker for heals and like Druid spells. Access to Draining Wall + Ancestor's Memory cheese lets you spam spells and keep buffs forever, too (edit: this should include spiritshift, too! I didn't even think of that until now lol she gets wolf form).

Next playthrough I'm planning to run her SC and build around Blackbow since I heard that summoned phantoms copy it. Seems like it could be pretty fun.

Edited May 5, 2019 by Jayd

[Boeroer]

Druid's PL 8 gets you Avenging Storm. Try it with dual hand mortars (Blinding Smoke from Hand Mortar triggers Avenging Storm and Fire in the Hole will jump one time - including AoE) or blunderbusses against single targets. I like to put Tekehu in Deltro's Cage, fire up a Chillfog and Returning + Avenging Storm spells and then wade in, guns blazing.

It's so helpful that all his Watershaper "bonus" spells are foe only and the storm spells (Relentless + Avenging Storm) are as well.

At PL 9 Greater Maelstrom... ouch.

 

[Jayd]

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Druid's PL 8 gets you Avenging Storm. Try it with dual hand mortars (Blinding Smoke from Hand Mortar triggers Avenging Storm and Fire in the Hole will jump one time - including AoE) or blunderbusses against single targets. I like to put Tekehu in Deltro's Cage, fire up a Chillfog and Returning + Avenging Storm spells and then wade in, guns blazing.

Cool strat. This seems like the best use of his pure Chanter class even more so. He gets AS as an invocation and then has Sure Handed Ila on top. Plus several ways to overcome blunderbuss's low penetration. Energized would even let him interrupt each time a pellet crits, right? I'm tempted to try that in my current playthrough if only I didn't need a main healer...

How do people normally handle their healing? I've actually never had a playthrough without a Druid on my team so I don't know how to do it without crutching on Moonwell. Is a Chanter and Priest enough healing? What about a SC Chanter + Pallegina as Herald?

Edited May 5, 2019 by Jayd

[Boeroer]

I don't use Heralds that much. But when I do they are usually good enough as healers once you can stack Ancient Memory with Exalted Endurance. The passive healing + Lay on Hands is usually all you need. 

[MaxQuest]

15 hours ago, AndreaColombo said:

OTOH, I'm curious about other people's experiences building Fassina. Does she work well as a Wizard/Druid?

I don't quite understand what a Wizard/Druid can do so well, that a single-class wizard cannot compensate for.

The interval increase on Storm spells (from 3s in PoE1 to 6s) is a very strong hit, in my opinion.

Also, a spell damage-dealing druid is focusing on DoTs, while wizard more on Combusting Wounds + lots of hits, and DoTs don't trigger those. No?

Tbh I have a recurrent feeling that druid in PoE universe is superseeded by wizard + priest arsenal, so a player will consider a druid spellcaster mostly when he has only 1 slot in the party left, and doesn't have any wizards or priests in it; which... doesn't happen often.

---

As for original topic... I wouldn't single-class Eder. Because top-level fighter abilities/passives don't seem to bring enough to the table.

14 hours ago, Boeroer said:

At PL 9 Greater Maelstrom... ouch.

Btw, does Greater Maelstrom get +4 PL from Chromoprismatic Staff?

Edited May 6, 2019 by MaxQuest

[dunehunter]

SC fighters and SC paladins are plainly bad imo. Unless u abuse chanter/summon + paladin to get infinite resources. Just because their high level abilities are not very attractive. They are more suitable for multiclassing

[Boeroer]

You never played a SC fighter with Clear the Path then.

[Boeroer]

3 hours ago, MaxQuest said:

Btw, does Greater Maelstrom get +4 PL from Chromoprismatic Staff?

I didn't try, but it should get +3. Maelstrom doesn't seem to have the freeze keyword.

I tried with LD's Voulge (+3 to storms) and Deltro's Cage (+2 to shock) and those stack to +5 with Greater Maelstrom (has shock and storm keywords). Take Otto Starcat (+1 to burn), Prestige and Power Surge and you are already at a bonus of +8 PL for Great Maelstrom.

You could use Magran's Favor + Sun and Moon to get to +9 I suppose.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

46 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

I didn't try, but it should get +3. Maelstrom doesn't seem to have the freeze keyword.

But does it have corrode ?

[Jayd]

4 hours ago, MaxQuest said:

Tbh I have a recurrent feeling that druid in PoE universe is superseeded by wizard + priest arsenal, so a player will consider a druid spellcaster mostly when he has only 1 slot in the party left, and doesn't have any wizards or priests in it; which... doesn't happen often.

This is the complete opposite of my experience, where I have struggled to fit Wizards and Priests around my Druids. Druids are the best healers in the game, with Moonwell and Garden of Life able to sustain your entire party for long durations + other spot healing options if you want them. Add to that the ability to cause constant raw damage to every enemy on the field, and a Druid's presence just tips the scales of any fight heavily in your favour. Throw in summons, storm spells, and one of the clutchest defensive party buffs in the game, Form of the Delemgan (immunity to dex afflictions and + 6 armor against the majority of ranged weapons and many melee ones and spells) and you have a class that covers all your bases without slouching in any. With one Druid you don't have to worry about healing and your damage is well under way. My current playthrough will be my first without a Druid and I feel insecure as hell about it. But I want to try the Stormspeaker idea mentioned above and Fassina as SC Blackbow specialist.

Druid is my favourite class though so I'll stan for it all day like Thelee does with Priests 

[MaxQuest]

 

2 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

But does it have corrode ?

Oh, indeed it doesn't.

It deals crush/freeze and electricity/fire damage. And has Elements, Wind, Fire, Electricity, Water, Storm keywords.

3 hours ago, Boeroer said:

I didn't try, but it should get +3. Maelstrom doesn't seem to have the freeze keyword.

I tried with LD's Voulge (+3 to storms) and Deltro's Cage (+2 to shock) and those stack to +5 with Greater Maelstrom (has shock and storm keywords). Take Otto Starcat (+1 to burn), Prestige and Power Surge and you are already at a bonus of +8 PL for Great Maelstrom.

You could use Magran's Favor + Sun and Moon to get to +9 I suppose.

I've checked it now. And scroll of maelstrom gets +2 PL from that staff (specifically from Electricity and Fire).

Phenomenum is adding Freeze keyword to it. So it will be +3.

4 hours ago, Boeroer said:

You never played a SC fighter with Clear the Path then.

I didn't

Is that "path AoE" big enough?

P.S. At least I am well aware of Clear Out) And actually thinking of taking 4 multi-classed tacticians + 1 SC ascendant, partially because of CO and triggerable brilliant.

1 hour ago, Jayd said:

This is the complete opposite of my experience, where I have struggled to fit Wizards and Priests around my Druids. Druids are the best healers in the game, with Moonwell and Garden of Life able to sustain your entire party for long durations + other spot healing options if you want them. Add to that the ability to cause constant raw damage to every enemy on the field, and a Druid's presence just tips the scales of any fight heavily in your favour. Throw in summons, storm spells, and one of the clutchest defensive party buffs in the game, Form of the Delemgan (immunity to dex afflictions and + 6 armor against the majority of ranged weapons and many melee ones and spells) and you have a class that covers all your bases without slouching in any. With one Druid you don't have to worry about healing and your damage is well under way. My current playthrough will be my first without a Druid and I feel insecure as hell about it. But I want to try the Stormspeaker idea mentioned above and Fassina as SC Blackbow specialist.

Druid is my favourite class though so I'll stan for it all day like Thelee does with Priests 

Oh that's great)

I mean it's a really good indicative, if it is your favorite class and you find it potent enough.

For me it's cipher. Can't think of playing without one)

 

[Boeroer]

Clear the Path is quite broad and very long. Comparable to Driving Roar but broader (maybe twice the size). Since it's a weapon attack it works extermely well with AoE procs. For example Karabörü...

Also mortars work with it if you use a melee weapon in the offhand. Don't ask my why. But that leads to a ton of AoE attack rolls. 

[Winterheart]

18 hours ago, dunehunter said:

SC fighters and SC paladins are plainly bad imo. Unless u abuse chanter/summon + paladin to get infinite resources. Just because their high level abilities are not very attractive. They are more suitable for multiclassing

How does the paladin + chanter infinite resources work?

[Boeroer]

Paladin's Devine Retribution (PL 9) also triggers when any party summon dies (it has to get killed). That means if you have a Chanter (preferably Beckoner - Troubadour's also nice) and summon skeletons (prefreably the version that summons two additional after a skeleton's death) and then those skeletons die - every time you get Zeal for the Paladin. If the Paladin kills the skeletons himself it also works (might trigger further on-kill effects like Inspiring and Virtuous Triumph).

You can combine that with a Barbarian who carries Grave Calling. The enchantment "Chillng Grave" also works on Chanter's skeletons, triggering Bloodlust, Blood Thirst and casting a foe-only Chillfog where the skeleton stood - every time you kill a skeleton. A confused Berserker will even kill them all with one strike due to friendly-fire Carnage and firendly-fire Chillfog from Chilling Grave (which counts as weapon attack and will thus trigger more Chillfogs). Berserker gets damaged by its own Chillfog then though can can one-shot himself unless you give him very high Fortitude and/or freeze DR. 

Basically you use your replenishable skeletons as fuel.

[Winterheart]

Aha, I thought there was a specific Herald build that had infinite paladin resources-

[Boeroer]

That used to be so at release - but they took the "early" brilliant inspiration away from Chanter with a patch since it was too powerful.

[Rooksx]

Sure single class Maia is fine, but Ranger/Rogue dual wielding mortars is just silly. AoE afflictions with increased pen, followed by sneak attacks that bounce around. Playing on PotD with the Hardcore Deadly Deadfire mod, and she is the biggest damage dealer in my party to a ludicrous extent.

[Boeroer]

But you can't do that because your single class Monk (Whispers of the Wind), your single class Fury (Avenging Storm + Blinding Smoke) and your single class Streetfighter (Powder Burns + Vanishing Strike + Gambit + Backstab) are already fighting over those mortars.
 

By the way: you can (or could, maybe got patched) give a single class Ranger one mortar for the offhand (preferably Fire in the Hole), pick Driving Flight and put Scordeo's Edge and Keeper of the Flame (or whatever melee weapon suits you best) in the main hand - and then do Whirling Strikes. Mainhand will strike first then offhand will do AoE*AoE*3 attack rolls. 

[Rooksx]

The AoE interrupts Maia gets from her Gunhawk subclass also help shut mobs down. It's not like she's had to wait until high levels to become this devastating either (I'm only level 17); she's been really powerful for ages.

But yeah, I think the real culprits here are the mortars. My impression of the game's difficulty might be quite different in my next playthrough, when I don't intend to use them or Maia.

[AeonsLegend]

I'm loving my Xoti Multiclass Paladin/Priest. Sure it's not an in game choice, but kind wayfarer is pretty in vogue for her. Of course I still have to deal with her awful accent and retarded comments, but I'll let Eder deal with that.

[Jayd]

@Boeroer is there anything more to share about how you make Tekehu do work with blunderbusses? Any items or buffs you rely on, especially for accuracy? And are there any special tips for not having Blinding Smoke mess with your own team?