The Blockbuster Oscar Bait Movie Thread

[majestic]

1 hour ago, Hurlshot said:

Having Admiral Ackbar say "It's a wrap!" is hilarious. It isn't tone deaf at all, the guy needs to take himself less seriously. He is playing a giant squid in space.

He is, in fact, playing one of the most beloved characters in the franchise, and while Ackbar memes are all good fun reducing the character and the actor(s) behind them to nothing but a meme - on set in front of everyone else - when you're the people in charge of Star Wars is completely tone deaf, and the argument that the guy should thoughen up and just because he played a ridiculous alien he's not allowed to be offended (or have any pride in his work for a job well done) is a bit strange coming from you of all people.

I'm not saying that "It's a wrap!" wasn't hilarious. It was. The way it was handled was not (much like Ackbar's death in the film was handled terribly) and I understand  Tim Rose being offended.

Oh, and Mon Calamari are not squids. The squids are called Quarren (both races are native to Mon Cala). Racist.

Edited June 7, 2019 by majestic
Something something safe space something.

[Malcador]

Doesn't seem all that rude, though I can get the guy being a bit miffed at being asked to do something that unfunny. 

[algroth]

All of this only further convinces me that the world is better off without Star Wars.

[Hurlshort]

2 hours ago, majestic said:

He is, in fact, playing one of the most beloved characters in the franchise, and while Ackbar memes are all good fun reducing the character and the actor(s) behind them to nothing but a meme - on set in front of everyone else - when you're the people in charge of Star Wars is completely tone deaf, and the argument that the guy should thoughen up and just because he played a ridiculous alien he's not allowed to be offended (or have any pride in his work for a job well done) is a bit strange coming from you of all people.

I'm not saying that "It's a wrap!" wasn't hilarious. It was. The way it was handled was not (much like Ackbar's death in the film was handled terribly) and I understand  Tim Rose being offended.

Oh, and Mon Calamari are not squids. The squids are called Quarren (both races are native to Mon Cala). Racist.

I'm curious how much money he has made for his role as Ackbar. I mean, I know it is a popular character, but it's also a pretty small part that doesn't necessarily need to be played by that guy. So maybe he should realize that the respect was that they even brought him back to reprise the role at all. Just my opinion. People still take their space fantasy way too seriously. I say this as someone who has lined up for all of the recent Star Wars movies on opening night, and I'd say they are all at their best when they remember it is supposed to be a fun adventure flick from start to finish. 

[Blarghagh]

I know Star Wars fans like to deify everything in the old movies and make a big stink about the new ones, but claiming Ackbar is a special part of the franchise is a joke. 

[Amentep]

Seems to me looking into the full quote of what Mr. Rose was discussing, he was already somewhat disappointed that he was asked to reprise the role only for Ackbar's scenes to get whittled down to him being blown out of the ship and nothing else.  That they then asked him to come up front and be - to his feelings - the butt of a joke was just adding fuel to the fire.

[Hurlshort]

30 minutes ago, TrueNeutral said:

I know Star Wars fans like to deify everything in the old movies and make a big stink about the new ones, but claiming Ackbar is a special part of the franchise is a joke. 

I would say the vast majority of Star Wars fans do not deify everything and make a stink about all the new ones. I consider myself a Star Wars fan. Most people I know in the real world are Star Wars fans. It's a huge IP that spans the breadth of multiple generations. I am sure the new Star Wars area at Disneyland will be packed for years and the next movie to come out will still get lines around the block at many theaters. 

But yeah, Ackbar is a fun bit part whose race is named after a popular fried food. He should chill and enjoy the paycheck.

[Blarghagh]

You're right. By Star Wars fans I meant more the breed of angry internet ranter we hear a lot these days.

[Zoraptor]

6 hours ago, majestic said:

Oh, and Mon Calamari are not squids. The squids are called Quarren (both races are native to Mon Cala). Racist.

Mon Calamari do look like squid- they just look like the head minus the tentacles. Hence the name calamari, since you eat the 'head' rather than the tentacles as calamari. George Lucas at his finest.

3 hours ago, Hurlshot said:

I'm curious how much money he has made for his role as Ackbar.

He'd make most money from cons. And he'd probably be happy enough to be paid to say "it's a trap" a few dozen times at those. Then again, he's probably happy to do it amongst people who actually like Star Wars, doing it for someone who hates SW like Johnson, not so much.

3 hours ago, TrueNeutral said:

I know Star Wars fans like to deify everything in the old movies and make a big stink about the new ones, but claiming Ackbar is a special part of the franchise is a joke. 

How do you delete another user's post in the new forum?

[majestic]

4 hours ago, Hurlshot said:

I'm curious how much money he has made for his role as Ackbar. I mean, I know it is a popular character, but it's also a pretty small part that doesn't necessarily need to be played by that guy. So maybe he should realize that the respect was that they even brought him back to reprise the role at all. Just my opinion. People still take their space fantasy way too seriously. I say this as someone who has lined up for all of the recent Star Wars movies on opening night, and I'd say they are all at their best when they remember it is supposed to be a fun adventure flick from start to finish.  

I don't think that wanting films - even the fun adventure romps - to be competently made is taking space fantasy too serious. The original trilogy was competently made and well crafted (in spite of Lucas, the original was saved by editing after all), and two of them were actually really good movies as well, in addition to being fun space fantasy (although I'm not entirely sure how the presence of somewhat low magic wizards invalidates Star Wars as a sci-fi setting so much it becomes fantasy, but that's another discussion entirely).

35 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

Mon Calamari do look like squid- they just look like the head minus the tentacles. Hence the name calamari, since you eat the 'head' rather than the tentacles as calamari. George Lucas at his finest. 

Well... yes. You're right, of course (and a Calmar is a squid, in the end).

4 hours ago, TrueNeutral said:

I know Star Wars fans like to deify everything in the old movies and make a big stink about the new ones, but claiming Ackbar is a special part of the franchise is a joke. 

No, that's just wrong. I mean, sure, there is the part of the fanbase that deifies the old trilogy, but that has nothing to do with understanding why Tim Rose felt awful after what happened on The Last Jedi set or how large a part Ackbar's character has become in the franchise - and let's not forget that while Ackbar was created by Lucas for Return he was actually introduced in a 1982 comic so we don't go down the "only the movies count" road nedlessly (and even then, prominent haters of the Expanded Universe like Mike Stoklasa think that an iconic character like Ackbar deserved a better send-off).

It's okay to not feel as passionately about the topic as Tim Rose. I also don't. I've posted before that I found "It's a wrap!" hilarious, but it's also easy to see how and why Tim Rose felt it was disrespectful to him to ask him to reprise the role for apparently nothing but a cheap death and a joke. It also fits rather well with the impression that large parts of The Last Jedi were made to troll the more passionate Star Wars fan base, i.e. the people doing a lot of free advertising.

I mean look at The Mandalorian. Do you really believe that Favreau and Filoni didn't have enough costumes  and extras to film the show, or rather, wouldn't have had the budget for them? That's just the flimsy excuse they used to get the 501st on screen. Which means you suddenly have tens of thousands of fanboys telling everyone they know to watch The Mandalorian because they played a part (plus it probably saved a good deal of production cost, those fan made costumes are often way better than the real deal).

I'm also not entirely sure why we're debating how much of an effect minor characters can have on pop-culture or how popular and beloved they can become with minor roles. Movie history is full of them. Inigo Montoya, Gunnery Sargeant Hartman, heck even Wedge Antilles and Boba Fett. 

Edited June 7, 2019 by majestic

[Hurlshort]

29 minutes ago, majestic said:

I don't think that wanting films - even the fun adventure romps - to be competently made is taking space fantasy too serious. The original trilogy was competently made and well crafted (in spite of Lucas, the original was saved by editing after all), and two of them were actually really good movies as well, in addition to being fun space fantasy (although I'm not entirely sure how the presence of somewhat low magic wizards invalidates Star Wars as a sci-fi setting so much it becomes fantasy, but that's another discussion entirely).

That is starting to sound pretty subjective, though. I mean, it would be hard to argue that any of the 10 Star Wars films aren't competently made and well-crafted. They check all the quality control boxes at least. None of them are B-movies or direct-to-video fare. They all have a beginning, middle, and end. They all have competent acting and look good. By every definition, they are watchable films.

Also, it's weird but I think the most competent, serious, cinematic movie in the set is Rogue One. I mean, it feels like a legitimate war film. It has fantastic acting and is very tight in terms of story. But it is the only one I don't like to re-watch because it is so serious. It's Saving Private Ryan in space. I know it is great and I'm totally invested in it as a viewer, but it is a lot to commit to.

[ShadySands]

It's too hard to classify what a Star Wars fan is and what in the universe is important to them because it's such a huge and varied fanbase. For my part, I loved the original trilogy, hated all but the last prequel, and in the Disney era, I've enjoyed the side stories overall more than the main saga movies. I'm not looking forward to either the Weiss and Benioff or Johnson trilogies but I'll still most likely give them a go and I am looking forward to the Mandalorian and the KOTOR movie if that ever does really happen. 

Edited June 7, 2019 by ShadySands

[Zoraptor]

59 minutes ago, majestic said:

The original trilogy was competently made and well crafted (in spite of Lucas, the original was saved by editing after all)

To be fair to Lucas, he's done the vast majority of the editing in the SW films he's been involved in, and done so without taking official credit for it. Indeed, editing is the one part of film making Lucas seems to genuinely love and be excellent at. He's been responsible for a lot of unnecessary problems with SW, but he's also been responsible for salvaging some of his mistakes in the editing room.

 

[majestic]

46 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

That is starting to sound pretty subjective, though. I mean, it would be hard to argue that any of the 10 Star Wars films aren't competently made and well-crafted. They check all the quality control boxes at least. None of them are B-movies or direct-to-video fare. They all have a beginning, middle, and end. They all have competent acting and look good. By every definition, they are watchable films.

Also, it's weird but I think the most competent, serious, cinematic movie in the set is Rogue One. I mean, it feels like a legitimate war film. It has fantastic acting and is very tight in terms of story. But it is the only one I don't like to re-watch because it is so serious. It's Saving Private Ryan in space. I know it is great and I'm totally invested in it as a viewer, but it is a lot to commit to.

It isn't entire objective, of course. The movies so far have all looked good. The prequel trilogy's CGI looks terribly dated by now but that's normal. It's not entirely what I was talking about, but I would also say that it is a bold claim to state the prequel trilogy was competently acted. I'm sure everyone did their best given the material the got, but some party are really, really, REALLY awful. Take any random scene with both Anakin and Padme in it. I've seen better acted porn. Better written porn too, for that matter.

There are things we can look at when it comes to screenwriting and characterization. How much a given story element makes sense in its universe, for instance, or how understandable character motivations are, whether the characters drive the plot or vice versa, if the movie runs into pacing problems or feels messy or disorganized. The points at which issues with these become a problem for the watcher are subjective, of course, but in general the prequel trilogy in particular did a spectacular job of failing there.

The Last Jedi's structure resembles a comedy more than a sci-fi adventure film (i.e. things happen because everyone who isn't Kylo or Rey is an incompetent schmuck, including ALL the leaders on BOTH sides of the conflict).

The new Disney era films also have a huge problem with working inside established rules for Star Wars - and it's not like there are many. For me that is a huge issue with my suspension of disbelief, but where that beings to break is subjective. Objectively these are issues that could easily have been avoided so they don't - subjectively - become an issue.

Also, you don't ever. Ever. EVER allow FTL bombing like the one shown in TLJ in a sci-fi setting.

7 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

To be fair to Lucas, he's done the vast majority of the editing in the SW films he's been involved in, and done so without taking official credit for it. Indeed, editing is the one part of film making Lucas seems to genuinely love and be excellent at. He's been responsible for a lot of unnecessary problems with SW, but he's also been responsible for salvaging some of his mistakes in the editing room.

 

A few years ago I would have said that being fair to Lucas isn't, well, necessary. These days though, yeah. Although I've seen and read interviews that clearly said that Lucas' first rough cut of the original Star Wars movie was horribly boring and that a collective effort salvaged it. Especially when it comes to pacing, strange cross cuts and destroying the Death Star without the Empire knowing where the rebel base actually is (which is apparently why all dialogue in the rebel HQ comes from off-camera - these scenes were slapped together after prinicpal shooting had long ended).

Edited June 7, 2019 by majestic

[majestic]

I just noticed I spent the better part of two hours typing up posts. I seriously need to re-evaluate my priorities here. I think I'm out for now. Especially since this is the third time since TLJ came out that we're having the exact same debate, and I'm pretty sure it will have the exact same outcome as the last two times. Seems pretty close doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results. Erm...

Edited June 7, 2019 by majestic

[Guard Dog]

Watched the Bruce Willis version of Death Wish last night. It sucked. Completely and totally and thoroughly. The 1974 Charles Bronson movie was great. This grease fire was as far from great as it gets. 

[algroth]

I'd never seen this before. It's rather brilliant.

Edited June 14, 2019 by algroth

[Amentep]

And apparently speaking the Five Nights at Freddie's demographic... 

 

[injurai]

Final got a chance to watch Captain Marvel.

I really liked it. I don't get what all the Brie Larson hate was for. It's not Infinity War / End Game, but it's a solid Marvel entry. Maybe I'm just a sucker for a good ol' "buddy cop" flick set in the 90's.

[Hurlshort]

I also watch Captain Marvel. It was great once she got to earth. I loved the 90's references.

[Volourn]

The movie Captain Marvel was acceptable entetrai9nment. Not great but not the worst ever.  I've enjoyed Larson in other movies but she isn't at her best in this film but I understand why n- she didn't care about her performance or her acting here. She was all about her political message.

 

And, why do people hate Brie Larson the person? She is sexist and hateful.  She spent her time hyping the movie by bashing its audience. LMAO

 

Plus, Wonder Woman is a way better film in every way. Every single way.

[Hurlshort]

I must have missed the political speeches in between all the punching stuff and explosions. 

[Hurlshort]

Lady Ghostbusters - Not sure what all the fuss was about. It had some cute moments and some fun callbacks to the originals. It was lacking in some areas for sure. Didn't quite hit the comedic notes, didn't quite pull off the chemistry needed between the characters. I'd say it lacked a strong villain or central threat. I mean, I'm glad I didn't go see it in theaters, but it wasn't a bad watch. 

[majestic]

13 hours ago, Hurlshot said:

Lady Ghostbusters - Not sure what all the fuss was about. It had some cute moments and some fun callbacks to the originals. It was lacking in some areas for sure. Didn't quite hit the comedic notes, didn't quite pull off the chemistry needed between the characters. I'd say it lacked a strong villain or central threat. I mean, I'm glad I didn't go see it in theaters, but it wasn't a bad watch. 

 

[ShadySands]

I thought it was pretty bad and my wife, who hasn't even seen the original, thought it was even worse.