Politics and Statesmenship: A Forum Special Report

[Malcador]

11 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

"Yet too many Americans have seen their accounts.. "

Sharpie ain't american, so he'll have to visit Bolton or Eliot Abrams and try to get a coup organised instead.

You assume they will care about that if it's what they want to hear.  Like Pai's feedback gathering.

[Guard Dog]

Pete Buttigeig wants to take Thomas Jefferson's name off everything it's on. Outrage is scheduled for 09:00 today. Details at 11. 

In other news, like the current occupant of the while house and 90% of the candidates in the race, Pete Buttigeig has no f-----g clue what a president can and can not do. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by Guard Dog

[smjjames]

57 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Pete Buttigeig wants to take Thomas Jefferson's name off everything it's on. Outrage is scheduled for 09:00 today. Details at 11. 

In other news, like the current occupant of the while house and 90% of the candidates in the race, Pete Buttigeig has no f-----g clue what a president can and can not do. 

Link to whatever the heck you’re actually going on about?

[Guard Dog]

19 minutes ago, smjjames said:

Link to whatever the heck you’re actually going on about?

The Micheal Smerconsih podcast from POTUS on SiriusXM radio. And this: https://freebeacon.com/politics/buttigieg-on-renaming-things-named-after-thomas-jefferson-its-the-right-thing-to-do/

 

Fox seems to have it too. CNN and the others are ignoring it (so far) since it paints a Dem in a possibly unfavorable way. BTW that post has more than a little sarcasm due to the sheer stupidity of the idea, the reasons for it, and the reaction it will provoke once word gets around. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by Guard Dog

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

Pete Buttigeig wants to take Thomas Jefferson's name off everything it's on. Outrage is scheduled for 09:00 today. Details at 11. 

In other news, like the current occupant of the while house and 90% of the candidates in the race, Pete Buttigeig has no f-----g clue what a president can and can not do. 

Hey, that's job creation.  

[smjjames]

10 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

The Micheal Smerconsih podcast from POTUS on SiriusXM radio. And this: https://freebeacon.com/politics/buttigieg-on-renaming-things-named-after-thomas-jefferson-its-the-right-thing-to-do/

 

Fox seems to have it too. CNN and the others are ignoring it (so far) since it paints a Dem in a possibly unfavorable way. BTW that post has more than a little sarcasm due to the sheer stupidity of the idea, the reasons for it, and the reaction it will provoke once word gets around. 

I did sense some sarcasm, though it was more ‘what are you bull****ting about?’ 

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, smjjames said:

Link to whatever the heck you’re actually going on about?

isn't quite the "take his name off everything" as breitbart and fox suggests. question were specific 'bout jackson and jefferson dinners. 

regardless, is a democratic process kinda thing. is nothing particularly holy or sacred 'bout jefferson and tendency to deify a few o' the founders is, we believe, a mistake. is few founders who were not deeply flawed. they should be honored and applauded for their accomplishments, but shouldn't be un american or un patriotic to question whether such men as jefferson deserve the place o' honor they got.

some local school district decides, democratic, to change name o' thomas jefferson middle school to bronson pinchot safe learning collective? so what? 

dinners? if pete suggests bulldozing monticello or jack hammering images o' jefferson off every fed building, am thinking we got a problem with pete, but dinners?  'tween the extremes is gonna be a grey area where democratic process should get to decide what is and ain't appropriate insofar as continued glorification o' jefferson is warranted, no? 

HA! Good Fun!

ps so is clear, is absolute no reason for gd, as a libertarian, to be concerned with a private group o' folks changing the name o' their dinner.  am assuming he agreed, so we didn't even bother to address. if a private group in indiana changes name o' a dinner or building or statue they own or provide, then there is Zero government interest to be concerned 'bout... 'less amounts to fighting words or child pr0n, or a couple other extreme limited situations which is so unlikely as to be non-factors in the real world. is only a real issue if is state owned or provided.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Gromnir
clarification

[Guard Dog]

There are a lot of people in this country who actually believe the Democrats want to re-write our history, take all of our guns, round up everyone who does not conform to their way of thinking and place them all in concentration FEMA camps for extermination political reeducation. Now obviously this s not the case (for the vast majority at least). But when you start talking about doing things like this it suddenly makes the people who shout these things sound like they are on to something.  It makes the whole thing sound a little less crazy. So, IMO the smart thing to do is leave the past where it belongs... in the past. Don't make it an issue. Leave the flags and the stupid f-----g statues alone. If that stuff makes people happy, don't f--k with it. If you are going to pick a fight with people who oppose you politically then pick one you can actually win over something worth fighting over. Whose name is on what building, or scholarship, or event is not worth the aggravation of provoking the other side. Unless of course the provocation IS the point. In which case that is even MORE stupid. If people think you are a monster the worst thing you can do is become one. Or appear to be doing so. 

 

BTW Alabama, Missouri, Mississippi & others that goes for you too.

[Gromnir]

bang on the table 'bout individual liberty, right up until folks use their liberty to do stuff you do not like?  but hey, "a lot of people" worry 'bout the comedic slippery slope o' nightmares spawned 'cause a private group is exercising their liberty rights. change name of a dinner is one step closer to complete tyranny.

patrick henry's ghost weeps for your soul.

HA! Good Fun!

[smjjames]

Except that these days, there’s not much that doesn’t trigger one side or the other (conservatives like to call liberals ‘snowflakes’, but they’re equally snowflakey), though you do have a point about picking your battles. Like Gromnir said though, it’s a private group that can change their name however they want, within reason of course  

 

Speaking of Alabama, maybe the Republicans should choose their battles more carefully, there are definitely people who think the Republicans plan to do some equally extreme stuff and the Republicans are just about confirming those. Even the RNC chairwoman is saying that it’s going too far https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/17/politics/ronna-mcdaniel-alabama-abortion-cnntv/index.html

[Gromnir]

as an aside, gd should know very well that history gets rewritten all the time. history is art more than science.  read confused and conflicting first hand accounts o' civil war battles and events then figure out how historians decided historical truth. why not endeavour to correct mistakes which is plentiful in accepted history? is no sin in rewriting history. it is a sin to rewrite religious dogma. so let's not treat history like bible or koran or talmud, eh?  

HA! Good Fun!

[213374U]

18 hours ago, majestic said:

I'm not entirely sure why this wasn't released prior to our 2017 parliament elections instead of now a week before the EU ones but whatever gets these two grubby, greedy buttholes out of our government and ideally behind bars is all right with me.

Possibly a falling out with their Russian overlords? With these things, the timing is never a coincidence.

I liked him trying to pass it off as a bunch of drunken talk to woo a Russian broad. So what you mean is, Herr Kanzler, not only are you a corrupt, inept piece of fascistoid trash. You're also hilariously bad at dealing with women. I'm sure the lady in question was thoroughly impressed by how readily you will bend over and sell your country.

But hey, at least he's stepping down. Slim odds of him landing behind bars, I'd assume, since there was no, erm, consummation?

 

[Guard Dog]

26 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

bang on the table 'bout individual liberty, right up until folks use their liberty to do stuff you do not like?  but hey, "a lot of people" worry 'bout the comedic slippery slope o' nightmares spawned 'cause a private group is exercising their liberty rights. change name of a dinner is one step closer to complete tyranny.

patrick henry's ghost weeps for your soul.

HA! Good Fun!

You've been retired less than a month and your reading comprehension skills are slipping. Or I did a poor job of conveying my point. Since this whole thing started with a comment by a Presidential contender I assumed it did not need to be spelled out all subsequent comments were in reference to that. And I did not say anything MUST or CAN NOT be done. What I said was (again referring the the Presidential contender and politics in general) was that is is stupid to antagonize political opposites over something stupid.  And it s. I never suggested they can't if they want to. We clear?

[majestic]

50 minutes ago, 213374U said:

Possibly a falling out with their Russian overlords? With these things, the timing is never a coincidence.

I liked him trying to pass it off as a bunch of drunken talk to woo a Russian broad. So what you mean is, Herr Kanzler, not only are you a corrupt, inept piece of fascistoid trash. You're also hilariously bad at dealing with women. I'm sure the lady in question was thoroughly impressed by how readily you will bend over and sell your country.

But hey, at least he's stepping down. Slim odds of him landing behind bars, I'd assume, since there was no, erm, consummation?

I'm pretty sure his wife at home with his newborn son will be rather happy about him attempting to impress rich Russian women while on vacation. You're right though, the video most likely doesn't contain anything that could lead to him being charged, let alone convicted. Even if the discussed donations to his party actually happened they'll be dealt with outside the judiciary system. At the very worst the party is looking at a negligible fine, and it's technically not even illegal to funnel funds through a non-profit association. Morally contemptible? Sure. Revealing of a terrible character? You bet. Illegal? Nah... politicians have no interest in making it too difficult to collect donations. Regardless of party affiliation.

There are some fun things though. Harald Vilimsky, the face of their EU parilament election campaign not that long ago stated that it should be illegal for billionaires to buy their way into politics. Strache himself opened his statement by saying that there have long been rumors about foreign interference in the upcoming elections and that this dirty smear campaign is a new low.

It takes a certain warped view of reality and balls to state that after having been caught on video trying to gain Russian funds with the expressed goal of interfering with elections.

And finally no, the timing isn't a coincidence*. It's a week to the elections and we're most likely going into parliamentary re-elections this year considering that there's an upcoming press conference by both our head of government and the president. Usually that means the former is going to ask the president to dissolve the national assembly and the latter agreeing to do so.

There's only one downside to this. Strache's former friend, mentor and all around lovable nazi piece of trash Gottfried Küssel who has recently been released from jail already insinuated that he has some, well, dirt on his former protegé that he might release when and if appropriate. They had a bit of a falling out. I suppose we'll never see what he's got. It's not really worth anything any more.

*I do doubt that it was the Russians who prepared the trap or released the video. Not because the Russian government is saying that the woman in question is from one of the Baltic states but because this very much hurts the FPÖ's plans of uniting the European far-right into a coherent force. A force with membrs that are, more often than not, actually well and truly backed by Russia(ns), like Le Pen.

This has been a major project on the FPÖ's part and it very much stands to fall apart right before taking off. Which isn't a bad thing, mind, but it's the one thing that piece of filth was right about. It was a set up and it was deliberately released to derail them, and it not being used in out parliamentary elections really suggests foreign interests (if it was domestic that wold have come out immediately). But as with affairs, it takes two to tango. There wouldn't have been a video if he had any common sense, some decency or weren't a corrupt, fascist piece of horse droppings.

It also might actually lead to the end of Nord Stream 2. Something I am a bit ambivalent about. It's not like we (the EU) have much of a choice. We can buy cheap gas from the Russians or we can buy overpriced LNG from the US. It's a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

Edited May 18, 2019 by majestic
Added some conjecture about the release of the video.

[Gromnir]

4 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

 

In other news, like the current occupant of the while house and 90% of the candidates in the race, Pete Buttigeig has no f-----g clue what a president can and can not do. 

our reading comprehension and memory is the problem for gd. you clear misinterpreted and/or misattributed pete comments. you then pointed out your " a lot of people" silliness, remarking how the knightmare fantasies were more believable 'cause o' comments like pete's dinner comments?

oh, and your self defeating defense is problematic precise 'cause o' our reading comprehension. private groups and communities who is made happy by changing name from jefferson to ________ is stupid and ill considered, while siding with folks who is made happy by current flags and statues is obvious the course o' wisdom?  unless gd actual is arguing the name changes in indiana were done unilateral and w/o support o' members and voters... which would be a wacky assumption. as with your curious discriminating libertarian views, you keep trying to have both ways. 

am knowing you indulge in hyperbole, and you clear didn't bother to read pete comments before commenting, but are you genuine gonna fight this? 

HA! good Fun!

[BruceVC]

43 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

as an aside, gd should know very well that history gets rewritten all the time. history is art more than science.  read confused and conflicting first hand accounts o' civil war battles and events then figure out how historians decided historical truth. why not endeavour to correct mistakes which is plentiful in accepted history? is no sin in rewriting history. it is a sin to rewrite religious dogma. so let's not treat history like bible or koran or talmud, eh?  

HA! Good Fun!

But most  events and outcomes of history dont get rewritten usually, they irrefutable. Intent and anecdotal evidence without corroboration can be subjective but so many things of history cannot be rewritten or they would be revisionist. For example who won battles, who was a particular president, when laws were created, why monuments were erected, when groups of people arrived in certain distant lands ...the list is endless 

[Gromnir]

5 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

But most  events and outcomes of history dont get rewritten usually, they irrefutable. Intent and anecdotal evidence without corroboration can be subjective but so many things of history cannot be rewritten or they would be revisionist. For example who won battles, who was a particular president, when laws were created, why monuments were erected, when groups of people arrived in certain distant lands ...the list is endless 

gd has been more than a little self-contradictory lately.  talks specific 'bout what pete can and cannot do... then says he ain't speaking 'bout what pete as a presidential candidate "can not" do.  is confusing.  nevertheless, am doubtful even he would suggest those evil democrats, bent on changing history (a scenario made more plausible by pete dinner comments) would attempt such bold changes. the cries o' anguish over changes in history rare revolve 'round the kinda stuff you speak o'. date of gettysburg? text of magna carta?  no, the stuff getting changed is the details and the conclusions historians draw from accepted facts. 

in the south, for example, history books has had a tendency to teach the causes o' the civil war different than in the north and the rest o' the planet. is not southern history books changing names and dates o' established events. nevertheless, the history o' the civil war is considerable different based on the authorship, regardless o' consistency o' established facts.

were robert e. lee a great man?

dunno. is not really a history question. he were an effective general (though have suggested elsewhere how south woulda' benefited if longstreet were in charge) but greatness ain't necessarily a matter o' selected uniform accepted facts and dates and events.

dunno. am not sure what gd means as he is kinda all over the  map, but am doubting he would suggest even the unholy democrats who "a lot of people" are worried 'bout is trying to change fundamental stuff you reference as history.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[HoonDing]

I know Jefferson from Jefferson in Paris and Day of the Tentacle.

[Gromnir]

2 hours ago, HoonDing said:

I know Jefferson from Jefferson in Paris and Day of the Tentacle.

fyi, if you wanna pass the patriotism portion o' civics test which would be part o' trump's new immigration plan, you would need know washington's farewell address or jefferson's letter to the danbury baptist association.  not familiar with jefferson's letter? is maybe a few thousand americans who is gonna recognize name w/o context. is where jefferson introduces the "wall of separation" language into the constitutional lexicon.

https://usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html

the wall were, for the most part, abandoned in 1947. is some few who hold to hard line drawn by jefferson, but most on the Court, particularly textualists who is often identified as "conservative" or right  leaning, adopted less severe readings. vast majority read establishment as admoning preferential treatment for religious groups. those in la may wonder why 'round christmas there is dozens o' different religious displays on the la courthouse lawn... or maybe you don't wonder. regardless, reason is 'cause current popular reading o' establishment clause makes so if a nativity display is ok'd by State, then menorah, statues o' baphomet and the kwanzaa bot also deserve space.

is also a few, such as clarence thomas, who claim the establishment is mere a prohibition on the fed from creating a state church. 

ironic, but has been right-leaning religious groups who is the most common and ardent opponents o' wall of separation. want private religious schools to benefit from a voucher program? wall o' separation is language gonna be used by opponents. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Raithe]

[Raithe]

[algroth]

So the previous administration in our country led by Cristina Kirchner, which stole the GDP of an entire *year* (estimated at around U$S 300 billion), is preparing to postulate themselves for the next turn a muppet as president who will be there only to bypass the law that presidents may not pardon themselves of a crime, in order to pardon Kirchner - who herself will run as vicepresident - and then capitulate so as to let her take over the government again. And continue stealing this way, of course. This is the country I live in.

Edited May 19, 2019 by algroth

[injurai]

IBP?

[algroth]

2 minutes ago, injurai said:

IBP?

Gross domestic product (sort of forced a translation as in Spanish we call it "producto bruto interno" and that appeared to be alright in some sources - but I think GDP's correct).

[injurai]

Gotcha.

What does it mean to steal a nations GDP for an entire year? Like what...