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Might is botched the same way as in PoE1


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#1
Yglika

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Dear Obsidian.

 

I have nothing against your perception that "might" means simply power, regardless on if physical or sorcerous. In fact - I find it quite cool approach and especially as _intimidation stat_ it makes a lot of sense. Seeing an obviously mighty sorcerer/warlock/necromancer can be just as intimidating for the person (if not more) as seeing a huge warrior. 

 

BUT...!

 

Just like in PoE1:

 

a) Racially, I have to be _giant_ to have bonus to the power of my spells?! Ugh, what?! Sorry?!

 

b) But even worse - far far worse in fact. The first dialog I hit with a "might" check and voila: My subtle but powerful elven sorceress carries the wounded in her _arms_!

 

---

 

I must say this is something what completely destroys the enjoyment of your games for me. I play rpgs for immersion and story, for shaping my character the way I like her and I certainly do NOT want to have my _powerful, but powerful in magic_ *W*I*T*C*H* performing amazing _physical_ feats! She is supposed to be _WEAK_ physically!

 

I did the same mistake twice now. :-( Meaning - buying your otherwise very good looking and promising rpg games. I thought this will be addressed in the sequel. To my shock it is not. I will surely not buy any game from you anymore until I find some confirmation on the web this is no longer the case. And it dazzles me tha you find this - obviously as you didn't bother to fix it - an acceptable "minor oversight" in a _RPG_ text/story/character oriented game. :-(

 

I'm not angry. Just sad and frustrated. And I wanted to let you know that. Sadly, it's definitely too late now to hope for any fix in this area. Especially since it seems you don't even find it being a problem.


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#2
Boeroer

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Yes, it happend. Despite the fact that we now have the skill "Athletics" which could have covered all those checks that evolve around physical strength.

 

It may be that I'm imagining this but didn't Josh say at some point that checks based on attributes should be avoided and most checks should be done with skills?

 

Anyway - since there might be some developers who still didn't grasp the concept completely we still have a few MIG bonuses and checks in the game that don't follow the description properly.

 

But it is at it is. The horse has bolted. This might be the 20ths or so thread about this since release and yet nothing changed...

 

By the way: Being (really) sad and frustrated about such a minor detail in a computer game is... not good...? Annoyed I could understand though.


Edited by Boeroer, 06 February 2019 - 12:12 AM.

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#3
Franknstein

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Your sorcerous power is so great – you lend your arms inhuman strength! You bend that mundane physical reality with the true might! Yet things requiring specialized training and knowledge of the tricks of the trade, that cannot be brute-forced, elude your grasp, you'll have to train Athletics for that. Also, little known fact, aumaua and dwarves have an innate talent for sorcery!

 

No rules will cover all abstracts and describe reality (w. magic) in a comprehensive way that will please everybody. In a TT RPG one can and should speak with the GM. In a CRPG one has to rely on the super-powers of imagination.

 

I still can't imagine half-swording two swords, have to avoid that horror completely.


Edited by Franknstein, 06 February 2019 - 12:59 AM.

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#4
xzar_monty

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The OP definitely has a point, but he just might be going a bit overboard with it.



#5
Purudaya

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The implementation is a little wonky, but I wouldn't say it's worth skipping the game (or the developer) over...


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#6
xzar_monty

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Indeed, if that makes the developer worth skipping, it might be difficult to find any enjoyable games anywhere, in any genre. Maybe chess?


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#7
nomak

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Eh...I remember in IWD there was a WISDOM stat which, if im not mistaken, was taking care of spell's power. And if i remember well, in some cases, it was replacing Priest's STRENGTH using melee weapons...

 

 

 

...it was sooooo long ago...



#8
asnjas

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Isnt that check athletics? Could have sworn its two athleticism checks to climb the boat and carry her down.

Plus what you mean giant? Any race can have any might.

#9
xzar_monty

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I also didn't understand the giant part.



#10
Aoyagi

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Who's to say that in Eora, magical prowess doesn't increase your physical strength? That's what a mate of mine said last time I had a debate about this anyway. The idea that the more you can hit someone with spells, the more buff you are sounds a bit silly (the fact that this is a fantasy world notwithstanding). I don't know why they didn't tie it to some other statistic or make a completely separate one. Or at least attempt to explain it in lore.



#11
Verde

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Yes, it happend. Despite the fact that we now have the skill "Athletics" which could have covered all those checks that evolve around physical strength.

It may be that I'm imagining this but didn't Josh say at some point that checks based on attributes should be avoided and most checks should be done with skills?

Anyway - since there might be some developers who still didn't grasp the concept completely we still have a few MIG bonuses and checks in the game that don't follow the description properly.

But it is at it is. The horse has bolted. This might be the 20ths or so thread about this since release and yet nothing changed...

By the way: Being (really) sad and frustrated about such a minor detail in a computer game is... not good...? Annoyed I could understand though.

It's clearly not minor to the TC or many others who have created such threads. Is it really your place to tell a consumer how to feel? Personally I've gotten over it but I think it's a bad design decision as well. There are other things in this game that make me very frustrated, like the absurd amount of bugs constantly breaking my immersion and enjoyment. And to that you may disagree, but that doesn't change anything my feelings on the matter.

Edited by Verde, 06 February 2019 - 07:09 AM.


#12
xzar_monty

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Boeroer's point was that if someone's emotional state is so affected by an issue in a computer game, they probably have difficulties with their life and should pay attention to it. It's a perfectly valid statement.



#13
Jayd

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If we're going to be melodramatic over roleplay frustrations in this game, our main concern should be the fact that monks arguably benefit the least from Intellect and Resolve. Monks. Monks are usually my favourite class (along with Druid) because they are a martial class that rely on wisdom, insight, and mental discipline for their power. In my estimation, that's essential for the character of monks. In Pillars it is the opposite and that actually ruins the class for me.



#14
xzar_monty

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Monk is a strange class in Pillars: a better fighter than a fighter, an absolute beast of a damage-dealer. I would have to agree that a Pillars monk does not need either intellect or resolve. They need fighter attributes: mig, dex and con. It is a bit weird, yes.



#15
thelee

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I also didn't understand the giant part.

 

OP is talking about being aumaua.

 

It's always so interesting, in a genre that is predicated on the fantastic and limited only by one's imagination, that some people (OP included) are really stuck in a particular mindset of how a game must be and that vision is generally based on a very tolkien-esque rendition of AD&D. Kind of antithetical to the genre's point.

 

Also, it's honestly a little fantasy-racist to presume that a tall, giant-type species can't do well at magic. *tongue in cheek* Even the barely-comprehensible Eotens can cast decent magic.


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#16
Triple - A Foxy Lad

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i see might as a measure of the force one can project, whether thats via muscles, magic or sheer bloodymindedness it dont really matter. like in ad&d a tiny gnome can bench as much as a human, not like that makes any more sense. and dont get me started on CHA or health points or any other of the five million rpg abstractions that evaporate under the slightest scrutiny. its all nonsense. "might" as well roll with it, or devise ur own hyper-realistic system. either option seems like fun.
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#17
thelee

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i see might as a measure of the force one can project, whether thats via muscles, magic or sheer bloodymindedness it dont really matter.

 

yes, but don't you see??? I read some fantasy novel one time that featured a very specific type of mage, and I must now re-create that in every RPG system that I come across, and if I can't it sucks!!! That's why Planescape: Torment is literally the worst thing ever made. WHO EVER INVESTS IN WISDOM!?!?!?

 

edit: Poe's Law dictates that I have to label this post as sarcasm


Edited by thelee, 06 February 2019 - 08:39 AM.

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#18
Boeroer

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Yes, it happend. Despite the fact that we now have the skill "Athletics" which could have covered all those checks that evolve around physical strength.

It may be that I'm imagining this but didn't Josh say at some point that checks based on attributes should be avoided and most checks should be done with skills?

Anyway - since there might be some developers who still didn't grasp the concept completely we still have a few MIG bonuses and checks in the game that don't follow the description properly.

But it is at it is. The horse has bolted. This might be the 20ths or so thread about this since release and yet nothing changed...

By the way: Being (really) sad and frustrated about such a minor detail in a computer game is... not good...? Annoyed I could understand though.

It's clearly not minor to the TC or many others who have created such threads. Is it really your place to tell a consumer how to feel? Personally I've gotten over it but I think it's a bad design decision as well. There are other things in this game that make me very frustrated, like the absurd amount of bugs constantly breaking my immersion and enjoyment. And to that you may disagree, but that doesn't change anything my feelings on the matter.

 

I think you either didn't read thoroughly or you misunderstood my post. Basically I agreed to the general statement. Remember that the OP doesn't complain about the implementation and concept of MIG but only the badly scripted MIG checks and the racial bonuses (Aumaua +2 MIG for example). This is a minor detail if you look at it objectively - compared to the rest of the (huge) game.

 

And since we had lots of threads about it and nothing changed I also agree with OP that it's too late to do anything about this. So best is to accept it or move on if you can't live with it.  

 

You can feel however you want. But if you get very frustrated or sad because a game doesn't meet your expectations then you are too deeply invested. It is, after all, just a game. For all I care you can do the Rumpelstiltskin dance until you feel better or drink a bottle of scotch to cope with the frustration. It's your choice. But it's not a good one.


Edited by Boeroer, 06 February 2019 - 08:51 AM.


#19
MountainTiger

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I'm mostly confused that people are ignoring the severe discrimination against Dwarves. Of course they should be the best Might race in the game, but Obsidian has somehow failed to notice that, being all-around superior, they should be the best at the other stats, too. Yet somehow I have to take a Dexterity penalty, as though the glorious Dwarf is not the most graceful of all Eora's creatures!


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#20
Verde

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Yes, it happend. Despite the fact that we now have the skill "Athletics" which could have covered all those checks that evolve around physical strength.

It may be that I'm imagining this but didn't Josh say at some point that checks based on attributes should be avoided and most checks should be done with skills?

Anyway - since there might be some developers who still didn't grasp the concept completely we still have a few MIG bonuses and checks in the game that don't follow the description properly.

But it is at it is. The horse has bolted. This might be the 20ths or so thread about this since release and yet nothing changed...

By the way: Being (really) sad and frustrated about such a minor detail in a computer game is... not good...? Annoyed I could understand though.

It's clearly not minor to the TC or many others who have created such threads. Is it really your place to tell a consumer how to feel? Personally I've gotten over it but I think it's a bad design decision as well. There are other things in this game that make me very frustrated, like the absurd amount of bugs constantly breaking my immersion and enjoyment. And to that you may disagree, but that doesn't change anything my feelings on the matter.
I think you either didn't read thoroughly or you misunderstood my post. Basically I agreed to the general statement. Remember that the OP doesn't complain about the implementation and concept of MIG but only the badly scripted MIG checks and the racial bonuses (Aumaua +2 MIG for example). This is a minor detail if you look at it objectively - compared to the rest of the (huge) game.

And since we had lots of threads about it and nothing changed I also agree with OP that it's too late to do anything about this. So best is to accept it or move on if you can't live with it.

You can feel however you want. But if you get very frustrated or sad because a game doesn't meet your expectations then you are too deeply invested. It is, after all, just a game. For all I care you can do the Rumpelstiltskin dance until you feel better or drink a bottle of scotch to cope with the frustration. It's your choice. But it's not a good one.
I completely understood everything you said. The same could be said bout spending most of, if not all, your free time on a board - being too deeply invested.

Edited by Verde, 06 February 2019 - 09:03 AM.





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