Priest weak?

[Verde]

 

It looks like a mini hadouken. It's serviceable but I wouldn't call it great.

Dire blessing is pointless bc you get the much better blessing a few PLs later that adds 50% misses to grazes or whatever.

Now Druids on the other hand, they have some great low level spells, esp Tekehu.

Dire Blessing *is* that spell.

 

The low-level AL1 buffs (Holy Power and Blessing) are still relevant later on because enemies also get better about using might and perception afflictions. Am I like the only one who tries to counter or protect their party members from these effects? +50% recovery time in particular is extremely brutal for anyone and given how common blind and disorient is I will use Blessing (even after getting Dire Blessing) to cancel them out.

I'm not following...doesn't Blessing just give you +5 Per? Are you saying it also removes or reduce Per afflictions?

 

Even so, why not more strategic casts of Dire Blessing than taking up two slots for essentially the same spell, major and minor versions? For that reason I would not call Blessing "great".

Edited February 2, 2019 by Verde

[DozingDragon]

I think the idea is to be able to counter Perception afflictions using PL 1 spell usages, rather than using Blessing as a straight buff.

 

On a different note, I think Barbs of Condemnation’s -10 to all defenses debuff gets overlooked, it’s pretty nice for a PL 1 ability that also does damage.

[Boeroer]

 

 

It looks like a mini hadouken. It's serviceable but I wouldn't call it great.

Dire blessing is pointless bc you get the much better blessing a few PLs later that adds 50% misses to grazes or whatever.

Now Druids on the other hand, they have some great low level spells, esp Tekehu.

Dire Blessing *is* that spell.

 

The low-level AL1 buffs (Holy Power and Blessing) are still relevant later on because enemies also get better about using might and perception afflictions. Am I like the only one who tries to counter or protect their party members from these effects? +50% recovery time in particular is extremely brutal for anyone and given how common blind and disorient is I will use Blessing (even after getting Dire Blessing) to cancel them out.

I'm not following...doesn't Blessing just give you +5 Per? Are you saying it also removes or reduce Per afflictions?

 

Even so, why not more strategic casts of Dire Blessing than taking up two slots for essentially the same spell, major and minor versions? For that reason I would not call Blessing "great".

You are writing/reading in this forum for such a long time and didn't know that afflictions cancel out inspirations (not reduce: the cancel each other no matter the tier) and vice versa? Hilarious!

 

If you didn't know lots of other players will have also missed that. No wonder everybody is complaining about weak priests...

 

I make sure my priest has as many different party-inspirations as he can get because of this. So I can always remove them. In case of Blessing it's quite cheap to remove Blind from the whole party (after you step out of the Chillfog's area ).

[thelee]

 

 

It looks like a mini hadouken. It's serviceable but I wouldn't call it great.

Dire blessing is pointless bc you get the much better blessing a few PLs later that adds 50% misses to grazes or whatever.

Now Druids on the other hand, they have some great low level spells, esp Tekehu.

Dire Blessing *is* that spell.

The low-level AL1 buffs (Holy Power and Blessing) are still relevant later on because enemies also get better about using might and perception afflictions. Am I like the only one who tries to counter or protect their party members from these effects? +50% recovery time in particular is extremely brutal for anyone and given how common blind and disorient is I will use Blessing (even after getting Dire Blessing) to cancel them out.

I'm not following...doesn't Blessing just give you +5 Per? Are you saying it also removes or reduce Per afflictions?

Even so, why not more strategic casts of Dire Blessing than taking up two slots for essentially the same spell, major and minor versions? For that reason I would not call Blessing "great".

Man, it's the entire inspiration/affliction system...

 

Any inspiration counters or provides a defense against a related affliction and vice versa. E.G. if you have Strong, a Stun effect won't Stun you, it'll only counter and dispel Strong. If you are Blinded then a Blessing will counter the Blind. (Similarly, you can block a dominate or charm by hitting yourself with a Prayer for the Spirit).

 

And the point of it is that Blessing and Holy Power are good when you get it, and because of the affliction/inspiration system they stay pretty relevant even though there are virtually strictly better effects at higher levels (Triumph, Dire Blessing).

[Verde]

Yeah but Blind does more than than reduce Per, so I'm not seeing how Blessing is a counter to the +50% Recovery.

[thelee]

On a different note, I think Barbs of Condemnation’s -10 to all defenses debuff gets overlooked, it’s pretty nice for a PL 1 ability that also does damage.

I would like it more if it weren't for the fact that its duration is so short. In many PotD fights a single target debuff needs to be really good (because there are many more enemies) or be durable (because you're fighting a single tough target) and I think Barb's fails at both. I do like Divine Mark at 3 because -25 deflection is huge even if the duration picture isn't that much better (it's also fire keyworded which is more advantageous)

Edited February 2, 2019 by thelee

[DozingDragon]

 

On a different note, I think Barbs of Condemnation’s -10 to all defenses debuff gets overlooked, it’s pretty nice for a PL 1 ability that also does damage.

I would like it more if it weren't for the fact that its duration is so short. In many PotD fights a single target debuff needs to be really good (because there are many more enemies) or be durable (because you're fighting a single tough target) and I think Barb's fails at both. I do like Divine Mark at 3 because -25 deflection is huge even if the duration picture isn't that much better

 

 

Base 10 seconds is pretty short, but if you are targeting an enemy that has the Body Blows affliction from the Morningstar modal, and in later levels lowered Resolve, you can get a decent amount of mileage from a single cast of this ability.   But I also tend to keep the Luminous Bathhouse bonus on at all times, so it could the extra cast that makes it feel worthwhile when you can land it.  

[DozingDragon]

Yeah but Blind does more than than reduce Per, so I'm not seeing how Blessing is a counter to the +50% Recovery.

 

Any Perception inspiration will negate any Perception affliction for the duration of the inspiration, and vice versa. 

[Verde]

Hmm so that's true for all inspirations?

[DozingDragon]

Yes, the only other wrinkles to consider are Resistances and Immunities, as those effects can outright negate Afflictions.  

[Elric Galad]

Yes

[Verde]

Wow didn't know that thanks.

[thelee]

 

Yeah but Blind does more than than reduce Per, so I'm not seeing how Blessing is a counter to the +50% Recovery.

 

Any Perception inspiration will negate any Perception affliction for the duration of the inspiration, and vice versa.

It's not even "for the duration of the inspiration" it's a complete counter/dispel. If you have like a 60s tier 3 perception inspiration, a 2 second distraction will completely dispel it. (Actually quite annoying against bosses with Persistent Distraction, your melee characters basically can't ever get a perception buff to stick.)

 

The only exception are "permanent inspirations" like you can see with Galawain's Challenge, they can't be countered

Edited February 3, 2019 by thelee

[Verde]

Damn, had no idea! That certainly adds an extra layer to the discussion.

[Ensign]

It's true for all inspirations but keep in mind that for the advanced INT inspirations they'll no longer be a friendly target, so the inspiration would need to go on in advance.

[Boeroer]

If you have the means you can charm/dominate them back first.

[Boeroer]

Damn, had no idea! That certainly adds an extra layer to the discussion.

You get all those messages that pop out of your chars' heads like Distracted once a PER inspiration hits you - also the other way round: Hardy once you get Sickened and so on.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Boeroer

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

Ye, suspect thats why aegis of loyalty is a thing.

 

EDIT: was meant to be quoting ensign. stupid phone. I can barely operate this thing.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Triple - A Foxy Lad

[Verde]

 

Damn, had no idea! That certainly adds an extra layer to the discussion.

You get all those messages that pop out of your chars' heads like Distracted once a PER inspiration hits you - also the other way round: Hardy once you get Sickened and so on.

Hmm I've been playing on Expert mode maybe it's why I didnt notice em or I'm just not that observant at times

[Boeroer]

Oh. That might explain it. I also once turned all "over head" info off because it's a lot of clutter - but in the end I reactivated it because it's just too tedious to browse the combat log for every detail.

[MaxQuest]

Playing right now on TB on veteran and I feel like Xoti is so weak. I have her as a pure priest, level 4. The problem is she can only cast 2 level 1 spells and 1 level 2 spell. Most these spells last 1 our 2 rounds and then she just kinda sits there missing all her attacks.

 

Are priests supposed to have so little amount of spells? Feel like they should some more spells per encounter.

Speaking of Xoti.. she has Blessing Harvest spell which is obscenely strong for a rank 1 ability.

And while do agree with you that having just 3 casts per encounter is too low, let's take a look at Eder. If built as swashbuckler he has 4 guile and 4 discipline at lvl 4. And what can he do?: 4 crippling strikes and 4 knockdowns. Xoti actually might out-dps him on that level

 

Priest weak?

It's not that they are weak... Priests in Deadfire are actually arguably stronger than PoE1 priests:

- easier countering of enemy hard-cc

- 2 beacons and 2 cleansing flames per encounter if they like

- more combos with Barring Deaths Door and Salvation of Time

- no endurance/health limit, so their healing is more important now

 

 

 

But imo they suffer from three problems:

1). they no longer auto-learn their spells when reaching new rank. And this is quite limiting. And they don't have grimoires like wizards, to partially circumvent this. The thing is: this is severely limiting their flexibility. The player might think: naa, I won't pick that Prayer for the Body, I'd rather cast twice the already learnt Iconic Projection, and better learn a spell of another rank or take a passive instead.

 

2). lack of enemy defense debuffing comparable to Painful Interdiction. And it was giving: -28 fortitude, -24 will, -8 reflex, -10 accuracy, 15% attack speed penalty, -2 move speed, -6% damage, 10% lower hp, -10% effects duration, and enabling sneak attacks; in a 5m AoE...

 

3). encounter design. Deadfire combat style is quite different from PoE1:

> there are less enemies with hard-cc, like shades/gwlas (with paralyze), adragans/vithraacks (with dominate), spores (with charm). While there are more passive means to combat such effects, like resistances and immunities from racials, talents and food. In my Deadfire playthroughs it looked like I could handle most cc situations without ever learning prayers and lithanies. And at the same times these weren't strong enough if used just as mere buffs.

 

> there are more enemies either immune to burn, or with quite high AR; which is quite limiting priest's offensive potential. Additionally there are enemies with bloated health pools, which make relying on limited spell damage kinda odd.

 

 

 

All in all, priests could have some of their weak spots ameliorated in the following way:

- priests learn litanies and prayers for free.

- priests (and possibly druids and wizards too) get a few new passive talents of "Bonus Spell" type. E.g: at rank 4 priest can learn Bonus Spell (of rank 1) and thus cast 3 rank 1 spells per encounter. At rank 5 priest can learn Bonus Spell (of rank 2). And so on.

Edited February 3, 2019 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

And give them trinkets! Like Eye of the Beholder's symbol of faith or anything that works a bit like grimoires. I really don't understand why wizards get that powerful tool that boosts their flexibility like crazy while priests and druids get... nuttin.

[Ensign]

Does anyone have a good understanding of the timing and stacking of inspirations and afflictions?

 

For instance I thought at one point that prayer for the spirit was a 60s charm/dominate immunity, but Fampyrs tear right through that. I figure it is that the first charm nullifies smart, then the second charm works as normal. PftS thus nullifies a single charm, right?

 

How about after the fact? I have wanted to use PftB to remove enfeebled, but when it is spammed with multiple instances on an ally it feels like it only pulls one copy.

 

The counter-charm or counter-dominate seem to fail a lot too. Is there a multiple stacking thing going on there, potentially?

[Elric Galad]

Question :

 

Does anyone have a good understanding of the timing and stacking of inspirations and afflictions?

For instance I thought at one point that prayer for the spirit was a 60s charm/dominate immunity, but Fampyrs tear right through that. I figure it is that the first charm nullifies smart, then the second charm works as normal. PftS thus nullifies a single charm, right?

 

Answer :

 

It's not even "for the duration of the inspiration" it's a complete counter/dispel. If you have like a 60s tier 3 perception inspiration, a 2 second distraction will completely dispel it. (Actually quite annoying against bosses with Persistent Distraction, your melee characters basically can't ever get a perception buff to stick.)

The only exception are "permanent inspirations" like you can see with Galawain's Challenge, they can't be countered

 

[thelee]

Does anyone have a good understanding of the timing and stacking of inspirations and afflictions?

 

For instance I thought at one point that prayer for the spirit was a 60s charm/dominate immunity, but Fampyrs tear right through that. I figure it is that the first charm nullifies smart, then the second charm works as normal. PftS thus nullifies a single charm, right?

 

How about after the fact? I have wanted to use PftB to remove enfeebled, but when it is spammed with multiple instances on an ally it feels like it only pulls one copy.

 

The counter-charm or counter-dominate seem to fail a lot too. Is there a multiple stacking thing going on there, potentially?

 

FYI: Fampyrs use dominate at will via a gaze.  Against Fampyrs, the best solution is actually to use blind (or have a dedicated Aegis of Loyalty paladin). Like the affliction description says, if either you or fampyr are blinded, the gaze attack will not work (if it's the fampyr, they cannot use it; if it's you, the combat log shows you as immune to the effect).

 

But yes, you can actually have multiple copies of an inspiration or affliction (they don't stack, they are just extra "layers" to get through). My current party has mirke with Disciplined Barrage, and I have Xoti cast Dire Blessing regularly. 99% of the time it's never relevant if I hit Mirke with Dire Blessing, but on occasion it is relevant that Mirke has two sources of perception inspiration (intuitive and aware). I don't know what determines the order in which thigns get dispelled. It could be as simple as first-in, first-out.

 

The only wrinkle here is that perception affliction multiples is a little buggy, because you only get the "free" Flanked once, so a second perception affliction will not apply flanked, which is weird if the first one lasts for a very short time but the second lasts for a long time, you end up with a long-lasting perception affliction with no flanked, and you can't use it again to re-apply flanked (you have to either manually flank or apply a different perception affliction source).

Edited February 3, 2019 by thelee