Fyonlecg and Jon Irenicus

[brunachos]

It is just me, or the mad antagonist from Forgotten Sanctum is a plain hommage to the greatest CRPG villain from all times? I mean, common, both are powerfull elven wizards - masked and/or disfigured - seeking revenge and aspiring godhood. Even the voice acting tried to mimic David Warner's (and the result was quite good). Also, the background of Fyonlecg was not very clear to me. Was he working for the hand occult and then was betrayed and imprisioned? Or did he volunteered to the imprisionement without knowing the consequences? How did he escaped? He cannot be caged? Cannot be controlled?

Edited December 31, 2018 by brunachos

[Verde]

Now I'm def getting FS!

Edited December 30, 2018 by Verde

[OEI_Alex]

  On 12/30/2018 at 5:52 PM, brunachos said:

It is just me, or the mad antagonist from Forgotten Sanctum is a plain hommage to the greatest CRPG villain from all times? I mean, common, both are powerfull elven wizards - masked and/or disfigured - seeking revenge and aspiring godhood. Even the voice acting tried to mimic David Warner's (and the result was quite good). Also, the background of Fyonlecg was not very clear to me. Was he working for the hand occult and then was betrayed and imprisioned? Or did he volunteered to the imprisionement without knowing the consequences? How did he escaped? He cannot be caged? Cannot be controlled?

 

 

I appreciate the comparison, but JI didn't cross my mind during Fyonlecg's development.

 

I'm not super surprised by it, though, based on the stuff that did inform Fyonlecg. If you want to peek behind the curtain, I'll put it behind spoiler tags:

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

For one, I wanted a more "traditional" villain for this DLC. We were doing a dungeon delve with a bunch of weird stuff in it, so there were certain beats I wanted to be straightforward or immediately understandable. So self-obsessed elf archmage partly arose from that - and where do we get our ideas of what's traditional and classic if not from Baldur's Gate, its influences, and the stuff those games have influenced since?

 

At the same time, I wanted someone who would reflect Aloth to an extent. An argument could be made (and Eder makes it, if you've got him and Aloth in the party in the Heart of Mystery, and the farmer dislikes the latter) that Fyonlecg is Aloth through a glass darkly. He's the worst possible version of Aloth.

 

Plus I knew that Aedyr Elf Wizard was a common enough player character type (it's mine, come to think of it!) that Fyonlecg could reflect the Watcher, too.

 

One of the subtler themes that runs through all three of the DLCs is an examination of how the Engwithan gods treat those who serve them. To what extent (if at all) can the Watcher trust the entities that, say, would shove a favored servant into a statue to run a personal fight club for two thousand years? What reward can the Watcher possibly expect from the likes of Berath for doing their will? But what's the alternative? What else could the Watcher do with the power they've amassed? At what point would they graduate from useful tool to threat to be crushed?

 

His half-faced state was meant largely to communicate that he'd gone through part of the process that created the other eyeless entities within the Halls Obscured. (I personally think it resonates thematically, too, on a bunch of different levels - reflecting on his particular ambitions towards recognition, the "wisdom" of the Circle in general, and the capriciousness of Wael -  but interpretation doesn't belong to the author.)

 

As for his performance, I cast Dale Rapley based solely on his audition, which blew me entirely away. He seemed to immediately understand the character's underpinnings and brought them to life, adding depth to a character that I would argue isn't wildly deep (in comparison to, say, Neriscyrlas). 

 

 

[brunachos]

  On 12/31/2018 at 1:30 AM, OEI_Alex said:

 

  On 12/30/2018 at 5:52 PM, brunachos said:

It is just me, or the mad antagonist from Forgotten Sanctum is a plain hommage to the greatest CRPG villain from all times? I mean, common, both are powerfull elven wizards - masked and/or disfigured - seeking revenge and aspiring godhood. Even the voice acting tried to mimic David Warner's (and the result was quite good). Also, the background of Fyonlecg was not very clear to me. Was he working for the hand occult and then was betrayed and imprisioned? Or did he volunteered to the imprisionement without knowing the consequences? How did he escaped? He cannot be caged? Cannot be controlled?

 

 

I appreciate the comparison, but JI didn't cross my mind during Fyonlecg's development.

 

I'm not super surprised by it, though, based on the stuff that did inform Fyonlecg. If you want to peek behind the curtain, I'll put it behind spoiler tags:

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

For one, I wanted a more "traditional" villain for this DLC. We were doing a dungeon delve with a bunch of weird stuff in it, so there were certain beats I wanted to be straightforward or immediately understandable. So self-obsessed elf archmage partly arose from that - and where do we get our ideas of what's traditional and classic if not from Baldur's Gate, its influences, and the stuff those games have influenced since?

 

At the same time, I wanted someone who would reflect Aloth to an extent. An argument could be made (and Eder makes it, if you've got him and Aloth in the party in the Heart of Mystery, and the farmer dislikes the latter) that Fyonlecg is Aloth through a glass darkly. He's the worst possible version of Aloth.

 

Plus I knew that Aedyr Elf Wizard was a common enough player character type (it's mine, come to think of it!) that Fyonlecg could reflect the Watcher, too.

 

One of the subtler themes that runs through all three of the DLCs is an examination of how the Engwithan gods treat those who serve them. To what extent (if at all) can the Watcher trust the entities that, say, would shove a favored servant into a statue to run a personal fight club for two thousand years? What reward can the Watcher possibly expect from the likes of Berath for doing their will? But what's the alternative? What else could the Watcher do with the power they've amassed? At what point would they graduate from useful tool to threat to be crushed?

 

His half-faced state was meant largely to communicate that he'd gone through part of the process that created the other eyeless entities within the Halls Obscured. (I personally think it resonates thematically, too, on a bunch of different levels - reflecting on his particular ambitions towards recognition, the "wisdom" of the Circle in general, and the capriciousness of Wael -  but interpretation doesn't belong to the author.)

 

As for his performance, I cast Dale Rapley based solely on his audition, which blew me entirely away. He seemed to immediately understand the character's underpinnings and brought them to life, adding depth to a character that I would argue isn't wildly deep (in comparison to, say, Neriscyrlas). 

 

 

 

Thanks, that was very informative. Never gave tought to the Aloth point. Maybe because yes, I roleplay as an elven wizard, from the White that Wends. A very evil and powerlust fiend, that gave this Aloth fella to a pool of blood in exange for power a long loong deal ago.  

[OEI_Alex]

  On 12/31/2018 at 2:23 AM, brunachos said:

Thanks, that was very informative. Never gave tought to the Aloth point. Maybe because yes, I roleplay as an elven wizard, from the White that Wends. A very evil and powerlust fiend, that gave this Aloth fella to a pool of blood in exange for power a long loong deal ago.

 

Correct call, I'd say. 

[house2fly]

I love Fyonlecg! My favourite touch is him claiming he invented a bunch of spells that don't have a "name credit" in the game, like Wall Of Flame. Is he lying, does he have false memories, or is the Hand Occult really powerful enough to erase an archmage from the world? It's a spooky thought!

 

His facial appearance felt very appropriate, like he's half-blinded himself in pursuit of sight. Feels like a continuation of the first game's theme of "if you find what you're looking for there will be consequences"

 

On a more personal note, I like his reaction to finding out the gods are fake. I'm happy that you can talk about this with Ydwin and Fassina, but they're so blasé about it(imo anyway, I think that reveal turns the gods from a primal force of nature to an institution which only has power because it was given power and has no legitimate claim to it). I like that Fyonlecg found out about it and got mad.

Edited December 31, 2018 by house2fly

[house2fly]

Oh, re his story:

 

He was an archmage who joined the Hand Occult, and eventually became Weyc(basically the boss, I think?) At this point he discovered the truth of the gods, and presumably started acting up. He was imprisoned, and eventually escaped, and usurped the Oracle (who was a sort of ascended form of the original Weyc, I think?) and evidently is planning to continue acting up.

 

Was he "erased" after joining the Hand, becoming Weyc, or being imprisoned? I think probably the latter, but I don't believe there's a definitive answer either way

Edited December 31, 2018 by house2fly

[Wormerine]

  On 12/30/2018 at 5:52 PM, brunachos said:

It is just me, or the mad antagonist from Forgotten Sanctum is a plain hommage to the greatest CRPG villain from all times?

No, I can’t see many similarities between Fyonlecg and The Transcendent One.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2018 by Wormerine

[Verde]

Also how do you pronounce Fy-on-leckt?

[bugarup]

  On 12/30/2018 at 5:52 PM, brunachos said:

 to the greatest CRPG villain from all times? 

 

...wot?

 

Well, I guess if you're really  into ham and cheese...

Edited December 31, 2018 by bugarup

[brunachos]

  On 12/31/2018 at 9:55 AM, Wormerine said:

 

  On 12/30/2018 at 5:52 PM, brunachos said:

It is just me, or the mad antagonist from Forgotten Sanctum is a plain hommage to the greatest CRPG villain from all times?

No, I can’t see many similarities between Fyonlecg and The Transcendent One.

 

 

 

Preposterous! ARISE, VHAILOR, A GREAT INJUSTICE HAS BEEN DONE!

[OEI_Alex]

  On 12/31/2018 at 11:23 AM, Verde said:

Also how do you pronounce Fy-on-leckt?

 

FEE (like what a bank charges) - on (like being atop something) - ledge (like being where the roof ends)

 

As a note, he will always say his name during the player's first conversation with him, regardless of where he is or what the player chooses, specifically because it's kind of weird. 

[Verde]

  On 1/1/2019 at 3:19 AM, OEI_Alex said:

 

  On 12/31/2018 at 11:23 AM, Verde said:

Also how do you pronounce Fy-on-leckt?

FEE (like what a bank charges) - on (like being atop something) - ledge (like being where the roof ends)

 

As a note, he will always say his name during the player's first conversation with him, regardless of where he is or what the player chooses, specifically because it's kind of weird.

Thank you sir.

[Hawke64]

I just remembered that there was a book on pronunciation of Eld Aedyran names somewhere at the Temple of Revelations. I guess, it might be considered a hint to Fyonlecg's age and background.

[OEI_Alex]

  On 1/2/2019 at 12:51 PM, Hawke64 said:

I just remembered that there was a book on pronunciation of Eld Aedyran names somewhere at the Temple of Revelations. I guess, it might be considered a hint to Fyonlecg's age and background.

 

I wouldn't read TOO far into that. He's from Aedyr, and Aedyran names tend to be based in Eld Aedyran.

[AeonsLegend]

  On 12/30/2018 at 5:52 PM, brunachos said:

It is just me, or the mad antagonist from Forgotten Sanctum is a plain hommage to the greatest CRPG villain from all times? I mean, common, both are powerfull elven wizards - masked and/or disfigured - seeking revenge and aspiring godhood. Even the voice acting tried to mimic David Warner's (and the result was quite good). Also, the background of Fyonlecg was not very clear to me. Was he working for the hand occult and then was betrayed and imprisioned? Or did he volunteered to the imprisionement without knowing the consequences? How did he escaped? He cannot be caged? Cannot be controlled?

You just basically described every bad guy in every videogame ever though. lol.

[house2fly]

  On 1/2/2019 at 7:05 PM, OEI_Alex said:

 

  On 1/2/2019 at 12:51 PM, Hawke64 said:

I just remembered that there was a book on pronunciation of Eld Aedyran names somewhere at the Temple of Revelations. I guess, it might be considered a hint to Fyonlecg's age and background.

 

I wouldn't read TOO far into that. He's from Aedyr, and Aedyran names tend to be based in Eld Aedyran.

 

iirc he mentions having known(or known of) Maerwald, so while as an elf he certainly could be a couple of hundred years old, he presumably hasn't been imprisoned for more than 10 or so

[Wormerine]

Is it only me who finds it odd that Deadfire insists that our knowledge regarding identity of Gods is irrelevant, while Fyonlecg gets imprisoned and partially erased for discovering the very same thing? 

 

Overal, there is an odd shift regarding Gods importance between game 1 and 2. In PoE1 God's status was clearly established with shrines and churches in every major location and characters actively pursuing God's favours. In Deadfire everyone seems an atheist. Well, that's not entirely true, Huana have a lot of shrines dedicated to gods and reference them often, however it does seem more of a "tradition" than actual belief (aka. I know said god listens and react). I wonder if it is because of Dyrwood recent encounter with Eothas and overal miserable situation that made the religion so importnat for everyone. Still, somewhat surprised how not impressed everyone is by Eothas marching through the Achipelago. 

[house2fly]

Fyonlecg took action in response to what he found out, and presumably as Weyc of the Hand Occult he was in a position to have a much bigger impact than some minor noble in the countryside

[Wormerine]

  On 1/3/2019 at 2:35 AM, house2fly said:

Fyonlecg took action in response to what he found out, and presumably as Weyc of the Hand Occult he was in a position to have a much bigger impact than some minor noble in the countryside

Did he? Must have missed it when binging FS before Christmas. Ha! Hoping for some bugs to be fixed, so I can resume my Deadfire playthrough.

[brunachos]

I believe so many people were "unimpressed" by Eothas rampaging trough the deadfire simply because they just did not believe it, and many that did were not sure of what was going on. The player had privileged first hand information. There was also the children of the downstars getting dreams and visions, but many treated them as fanatics.

On the player's knowledge of the real nature of the gods, I guess you could do your best to spread this information by yourself, It would always be detorted or doubted, not only by the hand occult or the leaden key, but also by the people in general. Even if you had some kind of proof, there are so many eager to deny plain truth in name of their beliefs. The only straightfoward solution was Eothas's: crush the wheel and let the nations assemble to fix it. And even in that scenario, I am quite sure Engwith's lies would be able to persevere to some extent.

Edited January 3, 2019 by brunachos

[Franknstein]

The god of collateral damage made good job biawaking most witnesses.

[algroth]

  On 12/30/2018 at 5:52 PM, brunachos said:

Even the voice acting tried to mimic David Warner's (and the result was quite good).

Expand  

I'd say that they even tried to mimic David Warner's appearance with the watercolour portrait somewhat:

Edited October 26, 2019 by algroth

[bugarup]

Oh, Irenicus is the evil butler from "Titanic"? Cool. If only whiny Jony was 10% as cool as the badass butler.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

He's also the Cardassian that tortured Picard, which is a much better role than an immortal incel looking to become a god because the girl he was crushin on rejected him.