Only a few hours in, not liking it much

[DigitalCrack]

I think Boeroer is on the money with the setting being the biggest issue... As stupid as it may be crpg people love their medieval high-fantasy and are indeed narrow minded about it. Love deadfire myself and really hope we see a 3rd PoE based out of the Living Lands portion of Eora.

[thelee]

Funnily enough, Magic: The Gathering recently did their own "colonialism and pirates" set (Ixalan and Rivals of Ixalan) and from what I can tell it was also much less popular than e.g. Dominaria (more traditional M:TG setting).

 

What's wrong with sailing and pirates? *feels alone*

Edited November 9, 2018 by thelee

[Gfted1]

Maybe it just wasn't "spiritual successor-y" enough? Arent the EE's of BG outperforming the PoE series and they are simply aping 20yo games.

[thelee]

Maybe it just wasn't "spiritual successor-y" enough? Arent the EE's of BG outperforming the PoE series and they are simply aping 20yo games.

 

Perhaps. This seems to support a random comment I made in another thread which suggests that a possible PoE3 should be heralded as a "return-to-form" (with per-rest system, more traditional high fantasy) that happens to have Deadfire multiclassing added in.

 

Personally I agree with most of JE Sawyer's changes to the pillars system, but ultimately the customer is always right. 

Edited November 9, 2018 by thelee

[Gfted1]

Perhaps. This seems to support a random comment I made in another thread which suggests that a possible PoE3 should be heralded as a "return-to-form" (with per-rest system, more traditional high fantasy) that happens to have Deadfire multiclassing added in.

 

Personally I agree with most of JE Sawyer's changes to the pillars system, but ultimately the customer is always right.

What I meant was, PoE1 had a big hook, "Hey everyone a spiritual successor to a beloved game!". People flocked to the new game. Then they received it...and using myself as an example, maybe felt that the only resemblance to the BG series was the isometric view or some other minor similarity?

 

I have a hard time believing that the developers changed the mechanics in PoE2 for the lulz, so imo, PoE2 shifted because of what the data showed about how players were engaging the game.

[thelee]

 

Perhaps. This seems to support a random comment I made in another thread which suggests that a possible PoE3 should be heralded as a "return-to-form" (with per-rest system, more traditional high fantasy) that happens to have Deadfire multiclassing added in.

 

Personally I agree with most of JE Sawyer's changes to the pillars system, but ultimately the customer is always right.

What I meant was, PoE1 had a big hook, "Hey everyone a spiritual successor to a beloved game!". People flocked to the new game. Then they received it...and using myself as an example, maybe felt that the only resemblance to the BG series was the isometric view or some other minor similarity?

 

I have a hard time believing that the developers changed the mechanics in PoE2 for the lulz, so imo, PoE2 shifted because of what the data showed about how players were engaging the game.

 

 

It still feels like if people were let down so much by PoE1 it wouldn't have climbed all the way to 1.2m in sales and have such decently high user reviews (if a bit lower than metacritic).

 

So far only Boeroer's theory above seems to make sense given the other data points we actually have.

[Gfted1]

I Googled around but couldn't find anything...how many of that 1.2M were backers?

[thelee]

I Googled around but couldn't find anything...how many of that 1.2M were backers?

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity

 

70k backers

 

Deadfire: https://www.fig.co/campaigns/deadfire

33k backers (the rest were "investors" who don't get a copy of the game)

[Gfted1]

Thanks for the links. I saw the 73,986 backers for PoE1 but couldn't find anything on the additional 1,126,014 boxes sold, so the 1.2M seemed off to me.

[thelee]

Thanks for the links. I saw the 73,986 backers for PoE1 but couldn't find anything on the additional 1,126,014 boxes sold, so the 1.2M seemed off to me.

 

The 1.2m comes from a data leak from steam -- you can google around for some articles (it was talked about on arstechnica in july) and download the linked .csv dump and look up numbers yourselves. It's not completely accurate, because it excludes console sales and GoG sales and free gift copies that backers had, but it's at least a good approximation (arstechnica vetted some of the numbers they could to verify the relative accuracy).

 

In the SEC filings (which are completely accurate under penalty of fraud), as of dec 2017 they had ~960k unique sales (they don't count console sales; they just get licensing fees iiuc). It doesn't seem unlikely to me that in seven months (which included several big promos as well as Deadfire launch for renewed interest) they might have gotten some number shy of 200k, plus backers, to get the 1.2m steam number.

Edited November 9, 2018 by thelee

[Gfted1]

Huh, Im legitimately surprised by that total. So even if it only averaged $20 / unit ($22,520,280) then Obs should be set for the time being.

[Amentep]

 

Perhaps. This seems to support a random comment I made in another thread which suggests that a possible PoE3 should be heralded as a "return-to-form" (with per-rest system, more traditional high fantasy) that happens to have Deadfire multiclassing added in.

 

Personally I agree with most of JE Sawyer's changes to the pillars system, but ultimately the customer is always right.

What I meant was, PoE1 had a big hook, "Hey everyone a spiritual successor to a beloved game!". People flocked to the new game. Then they received it...and using myself as an example, maybe felt that the only resemblance to the BG series was the isometric view or some other minor similarity?

 

I have a hard time believing that the developers changed the mechanics in PoE2 for the lulz, so imo, PoE2 shifted because of what the data showed about how players were engaging the game.

 

 

To be completely honest while I liked PoE1 okay, I was rather annoyed that after beating the game and coming back to do the White Marches months later when all the content had been finished that it was like playing a complete different system due to all the updates that were made.  It was such that I felt the character I'd built previously and beat the game with didn't seem to 'work' any longer.  I've still not finished the White March 1 & 2.  Maybe its not there, but I really felt like my character was useless despite using a near the end of game save to try and go to the White March with.

 

Most of the changes announced for PoE2 I wasn't crazy about.  I backed it because I like Obsidian, but personally I didn't want dual classing, I didn't want less party members, etc.  I haven't played PoE2 yet simply because my PoE1 experience makes me think I'm better off waiting for it to be finished.  So I hope I'll like it.  But it didn't really go in a direction I was personally exited about.

[Prince of Lies]

isn't correct. You could say that you believe the marketing strategy was a bigger issue than the unconventional setting. But why shouldn't the setting be an issue as well? Those two don't rule each other out as reasons not to buy the game.

 

I still think that my statement (basically "A Pirates of the Carribean setting attracts less CRPG players than a classic medieval one") is sound.

Certainly. It's just that visibility would have a larger impact. I think if Obsidian made another generic fantasy PoE, I imagine it would have faired very similarly. I'd also like to point out that while it didn't do phenomenal, it also didn't do terrible.  

 

If 10% of a population would be interested in a "Pirate-y Game", and you only reach, say 10 people, only one person would be interested. If you reach 100 people, that increases to ten people. If we're being generous and saying that those people purchased at $40.00/unit, that's $40.00 versus $400.00.

 

Part of the problem was likely changing their crowdfunding platform. Fig isn't as big as Kickstarter. There were virtually no influencers unlike Divinity: Original Sin 2. Most of the marketing done (Scavenger Hunt, Q&A Streams, Backer Updates, etc) engaged with people who were already interested (which is good for brand loyalty), but didn't seem to make any effort to reach a wider audience.   

[thelee]

Part of the problem was likely changing their crowdfunding platform. Fig isn't as big as Kickstarter. There were virtually no influencers unlike Divinity: Original Sin 2. Most of the marketing done (Scavenger Hunt, Q&A Streams, Backer Updates, etc) engaged with people who were already interested (which is good for brand loyalty), but didn't seem to make any effort to reach a wider audience.   

 

makes sense; i'm pretty sure this played a huge factor in the lack of buzz around Deadfire. It's also I think a main contributor to why Avellone is grousing about mismanagement for Deadfire sales. (Feargus is both Obsidian head and Fig boardperson and probably pushed Deadfire to crowdfund on Fig instead of Kickstarter)

Edited November 9, 2018 by thelee

[InsaneCommander]

It must be a combination of factors. The setting, marketing, ship based, less party members... If they announced PoE3 with an even smaller party, for example, I would actually think before backing (but I would probably back anyway, unless there were more "bad" changes).

[Wormerine]

Certainly, Deadfire doesn't ride the nostalgia train that much. Which, in my opinion, is its biggest strength. I am surprised whenever people suggest there is setting or tone shift between the two games - in this games OP bringing the subject of guns - it's like someone played through PoE1, ignored its setting, and pretended it's IE forgotten realms. 

 

It seems that neither Tyranny nor Deadfire attracted as much attention as PoE1, even though both titles were perfectly fine. 

[rjshae]

I've played High Fantasy setting to death, so I'm enjoying the differences here. It's funny how some people complain loudly when it's the same old type of western fantasy setting, then others moan when it's something new. I guess you just can't please everybody.

 

My biggest issue with the game is just the extremely slow load times for area transitions.

[Lord Brunitius]

Whats wrong with dual classing? Its a plus, you can ignore and choose a single class. I like criticism but when something is subcratded from a game, not added.

 

Besides that, ignore the OP, it is probably a troll as copy/paste the same thing on steam.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Lord Brunitius

[abaris]

 

 

It seems that neither Tyranny nor Deadfire attracted as much attention as PoE1, even though both titles were perfectly fine. 

 

I didn't play Tyranny half as much as POE1 and Deadfire. This isn't meant to say, it's a bad game, only that in this case the setting wasn't to my liking. As for Deadfire, I can't understand someone complaining about guns. They already had their place in POE1.

[InsaneCommander]

Besides that, ignore the OP, it is probably a troll as copy/paste the same thing on steam.

 

Maybe is the... seventh account? I don't remember how many have been attributed to the same guy.

[Boeroer]

I don't think so. Completed different diction - and better orthography.

[Night Stalker]

As for Deadfire, I can't understand someone complaining about guns. They already had their place in POE1.

 

Don't bother - there is a certain strain of people who play RPGs (be they PnP or CRPG) who don't think fantasy settings can contain guns in any shape, way, or form. For a genre literally called "Fantasy", there sure isn't much wriggle room for what should, and shouldn't, be in it.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Night Stalker

[anameforobsidian]

It could just be that what was a ravenous market is now feeling pretty sated.  Pillars was part of the first wave of RPGs.  Now there's 12 separate iso rpgs in the old mold: Wasteland 2, Torment, Shadowrun: original / DF/ HK, Pillars / 2, Siege at Dragonspear, Tyranny, Divinity OS / 2, and Pathfinder KM.  That's just the AA games, with indies we have Underrail, Age of Decadence, and several Spiderweb games.  This is all in six years, when Pillars was kickstarted there were three party based isorpgs in six years; D:AO, NWN 2 MotB / SZ.

 

 

This is my favorite genre and I haven't bought and played 4 of the flagship games.  I think it's just simple economics.  How many of these games had great sales, despite generally being decent?

Edited November 12, 2018 by anameforobsidian

[Frak]

 

Being a Watcher didn't drive you mad, being Awakened did, and the Awakening got undone at the end of POE1. Anyway, if a game needs to have a high-fantasy European forest with wolves and goblins for you to get into it then suffice to say you won't like this game

 

The quote "No sleep for the watcher" means that being a watcher makes you mad.

 

Adaryc was only a watcher, afraid of becoming mad.

Maerwald was both a watcher and awakened, gone mad.

Aloth is only awakened, not mad.

 

 

I like the argument. My take on it is a bit of both, that yet doesn't really fit.

 

Maerwald is not only a watcher and awakened. He's also awakened with several violent personalities. No wonder the guy goes bonkers.

 

You (The Watcher) and Aloth only seem to have one other "passenger". Aloth have Iselmyr and you have your old-school redeemed traitor playing you 8 bit recordings of a single previous life.

 

The difference between you and Aloth is primarily that you are a watcher, while he is not. Aloth also seems stable enough to co-exist with Isemyr for an extended time since childhood.

It is stated that you will go crazy with time. So it might be the mix. Being awakened and a watcher will make you misplace your feces. Which we fix by the end of POE1, as we all know.

[Cartoons Plural]

i dont understand why these games get such dedicated haters writing missives of two thousand plus words that come down to superficial nitpicking about setting ("pirates geez how cliche" what rpg has pirates?), the mechanics not being their preference, or not exactly replicating their adolescent experience with baldurs gate. considering this guys ranting abot "hypersexualized gay" characters my suspicion that most of it is crypto-political trolling seems to be pertinent