Resolve, help me out.

[protopersona]

 

 

Just to be clear, I think Verde was talking about a high Diplomacy skill, not a high Resolve? One can have a high Diplomacy skill and a low Resolve, and vice versa.

The thread was about the value of the Resolve stat, not the Diplomacy skill. I've been discussing that context.

Yeah, I wasn’t trying to weigh in on that discussion one way or the other. Just clarifying that it’s a high Diplomacy skill, not a high Resolve stat, that is needed to get the outcomes Verde was describing.

 

 

So most of this discussion has been me and Verde talking past each other. Good to know.

Edited November 4, 2018 by protopersona

[Boeroer]

No, only the last post of him. At least there Verde is talking about Diplomacy. Before that there may have been confusion about those two things as well, but Resolve was mentioned more than once. But we also mentioned PoE 1 where Resolve was useful as a dialogue stat. There are also RES checks in Deadfire (but a lot less than in PoE.)

 

By the way you can also save Kali with a lot of Intimidation (scare him away) or simply by not killing him during the fight (will turn friendly after Nemnok is dead and the rest of the crowd is dead, too).

Edited November 4, 2018 by Boeroer

[Prince of Lies]

You can get the Bardattos and Veleras to talk and have a peaceful resolution with high intimidate as well. Intimidate is surprisingly non-violent and diplomatic.

 

Resolve is not nearly as important to conversations like it was in PoE1.  IIRC, the other attributes (except CON) have just as many interactions in conversations/scripted interactions as Resolve. 

[XEternalXDreamsX]

I really enjoy the fighter with plenty of affliction resistances, high resolve(deflection), heavy AR, large shield (more deflection), plus a lot of engagements. His DPS isn't the greatest but the survivability is almost immortal.

[Prince of Lies]

Yeah, stacking defensive bonuses can be pretty powerful on non-POTD. 

[Ensign]

At least compared to PoE1 resolve is a much stronger attribute, combat-wise. It's better for similar reasons perception is stronger - pen on crit is a big deal, and resolve will turn penetrating crits into mitigated hits even without huge amounts stacked.

 

Perhaps more importantly other attributes were nerfed. Might doesn't have the same interaction with armor that made it much stronger than the 3% linear gain on paper; dex is now a linear boost along with every other speed buff, and int doesn't blow out from increasing returns on AoE either.

 

There are still plenty of low resolve builds, and in a party you can still micro-optimize resolve onto tanks and off of backline while making up the difference in tactics. But it's a much better situation than PoE1 where it was proper to dump resolve on most everyone.

[thelee]

At least compared to PoE1 resolve is a much stronger attribute, combat-wise. It's better for similar reasons perception is stronger - pen on crit is a big deal, and resolve will turn penetrating crits into mitigated hits even without huge amounts stacked.

 

Perhaps more importantly other attributes were nerfed. Might doesn't have the same interaction with armor that made it much stronger than the 3% linear gain on paper; dex is now a linear boost along with every other speed buff, and int doesn't blow out from increasing returns on AoE either.

 

There are still plenty of low resolve builds, and in a party you can still micro-optimize resolve onto tanks and off of backline while making up the difference in tactics. But it's a much better situation than PoE1 where it was proper to dump resolve on most everyone.

 

note that intellect stopped having increasing returns in poe1; they nerfed it to do +6% total area, instead of +x% radius. it is still better than in deadfire where it's merely +5% area.

 

some other things that contribute to perception and resolve being better than before: classes have mostly equalized acc and def now. in poe1 there was huge variance; wizard for example had such low base deflection that you could max out resolve and you'd just be catching up to a mid-tier deflection class. And because resolve has increasing returns, the flip side to that is that if you're deep in the hole you could increase resolve a lot and barely make a dent. Now, virtually everyone is locked into 20 accuracy and 20 deflection (i think barbarians might have less) and balanced around that which means that resolve comparatively becomes better for everyone. (Similar story for perception and accuracy. Pre-release I thought perception would need a buff because it no longer provided an interrupt chance like in Poe1, post-release I think perception is just fine due to a generally harder time getting accuracy buffs making it more important.)

[colma86]

I’m still in the “dump resolve, almost always” camp. There are a lot of interesting points here but I still don’t see it being worthwhile vs. other stats on PotD in practice.

 

Say on a token herald tank, would 7 deflection (assuming base 10 vs. dumped 3) consistently be the difference of getting hit or not? Or further would the extra hits or debuff duration make a realistic difference on the outcome of the encounter? (In the game proper, not so much thinking about starter island)

 

In my personal, anecdotal experience the answer is no, those points in or out of resolve do not make that difference in a noticeable or consistent way.

 

I know that’s hard if not impossible to concretely answer given gear/levels/buffs/debuffs/party comp/enemy variables. Making that kind of consistent fight-in,fight-out difference in survival is sort of the only thing I can see making me not dump resolve though. In the end it hardly matters if your tank survives with 80 hp or 300 hp, just so long as the job is done...so it may as well churn out as much damage as it can and invest in other stats.

 

All that said, game balance still isn’t tuned to the point those stat points are going to make or break a run wherever they are.

Edited November 6, 2018 by colma86

[protopersona]

All that said, game balance still isn’t tuned to the point those stat points are going to make or break a run wherever they are.

 

That's an impractical goal to have anyways. Having stats so finely balanced that not having the "right build" kills your run turns players away from the game. Especially in a game like this where building the character you like is so important. Cookie cutter build optimization is a part of what ruined MMO games for me.

[colma86]

 

All that said, game balance still isn’t tuned to the point those stat points are going to make or break a run wherever they are.

That's an impractical goal to have anyways. Having stats so finely balanced that not having the "right build" kills your run turns players away from the game. Especially in a game like this where building the character you like is so important. Cookie cutter build optimization is a part of what ruined MMO games for me.

Oh for sure. Having a tank need X resolve or die in 3 seconds MMO style would be terrible for everybody. I didn’t mean that as negative as it sounded.

Edited November 6, 2018 by colma86

[XEternalXDreamsX]

Yeah, stacking defensive bonuses can be pretty powerful on non-POTD.

I don't play POTD due to the fact I'm not that great (anything below is fine) plus a lot of my builds would be sub optimized in that difficulty. I'd rather build flavorful and RP builds. That's not to say you can't have both as PoE and Deadfire have shown in their build topics that it is possible.. just not mine. Lol.

 

I always look at starting attributes as a headstart into your final build.

 

Resolve has always taken away from CON for me. If Resolve was taken out, I'd likely commit some points to Con. Especially if Con takes the -% hostile effects.

 

To add, I'm not saying I recommend that. I feel it is one of the reasons Con ranks so low for me even though I dont dump it.

Edited November 6, 2018 by XEternalXDreamsX

[Franknstein]

Without the strong dialogue requirements Resolve lost me. One can tank like a pro without it and the points do better in other stats.

[Verde]

Without the strong dialogue requirements Resolve lost me. One can tank like a pro without it and the points do better in other stats.

Yep same.