The Political Thread - Hobbes Edition

[Malcador]

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/414227-trump-supporters-like-me-more-when-i-ramp-up-enemy-of-the-people

 

I guess the problem is the people are fools

[BruceVC]

 

Nah, that's the easiest part to answer. Where would you rather live?

 

True dat.

 

 

The interweb tells me that we accept ~20000 asylum seekers per year. The migrant convey is estimated anywhere between 7-14k. Its November already so most of the initial 20k are probably used up. If I were one of them I would pick up the pace and try to get to the head of the line.

 

 

As far as I can tell (I read to the second paragraph) US asylum seekers need to meet one of three basic criteria. Living in a s**thole doesn't seem to make the cut. 

 

Its important to not conflate issues when it comes to these types of potential human rights disasters

 

For example why anyone would think after all the anti-immigration rhetoric and developments on the border that this caravan is a good idea or would ever be allowed in? You cannot expect Trump to not act in a way that  will be hopefully effective but not create unnecessary global attention that would be very critical of the USA like when children were split from families

 

But whoever initiated this calamitous caravan is responsible for the outcome, it gets draining when you see the caravan people getting interviewed and they say things like " all we want is a better life, we come from countries that have high levels of crime and no economic future........"  

 

And why must this now mean the USA needs to absorb  the failures  of governments in the region? In SA we get told we have to just accept millions of illegal refugees as " the African diaspora is an important part of the African Union and we need to welcome our fellow African family"....except there is only one movement of refugees, into SA 

 

And to add to this we have to provide "alternate housing " if anyone is evicted from squatting illegally, can you imagine that   

 

https://ewn.co.za/2017/10/19/joburg-mayor-heading-to-court-over-deportation-of-illegal-immigrants

[BruceVC]

"Nah, that's the easiest part to answer. Where would you rather live?"

 

But, it's racist to call Mexico a ****hole even though travelers and Mexicans call Mexico a ****hole because Mexico is a ****hole. Mexicans know Mexico is a ****hole.  That is why they flee there.

 

People cry about the US but it says a lot that even when the US has a 'nazi' President like Trump people still flee towards the US.

 

 

I certainly doubt many Jews were fleeing INTO Germany during the Nazi regime - espciially when  it became clear what the Nazis were doing.

volo you have made a very good suggestion, the entire caravan needs to be rerouted to Canada. Its not like you guys have a real issue with immigrants and there is plenty of room in the mountains. 

 

But the financing of this idea needs to be agreed on as I dont see why the USA or Canada need to burdened ...let the governments where the immigrants come from pay?

[Gfted1]

I love this headline: Migrant caravan coordinator says demand for Mexico to provide buses has 'failed'. I guess the rest of the world isn't doing enough for them.

 

I still don't see a good "asylum" excuse either. Weird.

[Malcador]

I love this headline: Migrant caravan coordinator says demand for Mexico to provide buses has 'failed'. I guess the rest of the world isn't doing enough for them.

 

I still don't see a good "asylum" excuse either. Weird.

 

You think you're going to see one from Fox ?   In any case, with so many people, reasons for asylum will be so varied.

 

On a related article, spotted this irritant - "A group of Central American migrants bound for the U.S border wade in mass across the Suchiate River, that connects Guatemala and Mexico, in Tecun Uman, Guatemala"  Damn crappy editors!

[Guard Dog]

Wow, politicians appeal to peoples basest emotions to get votes??? I'm shocked. When did that start? 

 

[BruceVC]

I love this headline: Migrant caravan coordinator says demand for Mexico to provide buses has 'failed'. I guess the rest of the world isn't doing enough for them.

 

I still don't see a good "asylum" excuse either. Weird.

At least some people have lost interest, you notice  the spurious example  of  this caravan  was mentioned 

 

" The caravan originated in that country as many are trying to flee its pervasive poverty and violence " 

 

 

 

[Gfted1]

Thats what makes me cast the stinkeye on this whole dog and pony show. "Violence and poverty" do not meet the threshold for "asylum":

 

 

 

Asylum has three basic requirements. First, an asylum applicant must establish that he or she fears persecution in their home country.^[4] Second, the applicant must prove that he or she would be persecuted on account of one of five protected grounds: race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or particular social group. Third, an applicant must establish that the government is either involved in the persecution, or unable to control the conduct of private actors.

 

 

So whats the real intention of these "refugees"? 

[HoonDing]

They want to rape all your women.

[Gfted1]

Hard to do that through a wall. Oh well, at least they will have bitchin' tone on their legs and buttock from walking here and back.

[Malcador]

Violence was a valid reason until June or so. It probably should be.

[HoonDing]

"Trump is no fool"

 

if you manage to bankrupt a casino you are objectively a massive dunce

 

it's like losing a foot race in a F1 car

[Volourn]

"volo you have made a very good suggestion, the entire caravan needs to be rerouted to Canada. Its not like you guys have a real issue with immigrants and there is plenty of room in the mountains. "

 

nah. We get more than our share of immigrants. Even our  'everyone is nwelcome' PM is shipping immigrants away en masse.

 

 

"Violence was a valid reason until June or so. It probably should be."

 

 

You sure? if I get mugged her ein Kanada, should I be allowed to  request asylum in another country for my 'safety'? I mean, that's  violence, but come on, use some damn common sense.

[Hurlshort]

I have no idea what it is like to live in a 3rd world country, so I'm not going to speak for these people. Unsurprisingly that doesn't stop most of you here. 

[Malcador]

"Violence was a valid reason until June or so. It probably should be."

 

 

You sure? if I get mugged her ein Kanada, should I be allowed to  request asylum in another country for my 'safety'? I mean, that's  violence, but come on, use some damn common sense.

Sure you should, all that means you're not rejected outright - they'll look at the degree. If your country has death squads roaming around or gangs essentially owning parts of it, that's different from being mugged, right ?

[Gfted1]

Uh oh, in that case Chicago needs to be walled off for the general safety of the rest of the state.

[Malcador]

Uh oh, in that case Chicago needs to be walled off for the general safety of the rest of the state.

Only 18 murders per 100k, that's not that bad for an American city

[Tsuga C]

 

 

And while we're at it, LETS DECLARE WAR ON MEXICO! ****YEAH! MAGA!

 

 

No, let's declare that the nation founded by MY ancestors is sovereign and we're through being the safety valve for all the grossly mismanaged nations of the world. To wit:

 

• End all immigration for the remainder of the 21st Century.
• Enact comprehensive national E-Verify.
• Station light infantry and air cavalry on the southwest border with aggressive Rules of Engagement.
• Defund all sanctuary cities.
• Hire more ICE agents for field duty.
• Step up raids and deportations, including those for aliens overstaying their VISAs.
• Eliminate birthright citizenship.
• Slash both H1-B and H2-B VISAs. Americans shouldn't have to train their foreign replacements or work for Central American wages.
• Permanently bar from citizenship or legal residency any illegal aliens found here--includes those overstaying their VISAs.

Invite the Third World in mass and we de facto become the Third World with all of its violence and social pathologies. Let's not become Teddy Roosevelt's tangle of squabbling nationalities.

 

More convoys/caravans are forming in Central America. Allowing any of these invaders into the USA will only encourage more of them to attempt the same gambit. Shut them down as hard as necessary to make of them an object lesson: you're not getting in, so you'll have to fix your own nations as best you may.

 

http://buchanan.org/blog/caravan-puts-trump-legacy-on-the-line-130359

Edited November 1, 2018 by Tsuga C

[HoonDing]

Kill them all. God will know his own.

[Zoraptor]

I tend to agree with GD. Trump is no fool, but he is a gambler and he's worked his way into the highest stake game out there. Like all celebrities, he's got a big streak of narcissism, but he's also found a way to use that to attract votes. That alone makes it impossible to dismiss him as a fool. 

 

It depends a lot on perspective. His brinkmanship with North Korea was stupid, and the summit with Kim he got from his brinkmanship achieved nothing DPRK wasn't going to do anyway. So he's a fool. But, he's been able to do a good job spinning it into being a great success for taking hardline positions and a personal success for him. So he's not a fool. He threatens to pull out of NATO and antagonises his allies unnecessarily, so he's a fool. But he doesn't pull out and extracts more tribute from said vassals, so he's not a fool. Etcetera.

 

He definitely sees himself as a great deal maker, and if you're leader of the US then the biggest leverage you have for said deals are military and economic power. Political power ('soft power') is what he ignores as it isn't quantifiable and that has lead to his many unmitigated failures in the diplomatic field. Even then he's at least tried to spin them to his advantage and they tend to play well for his voting base who like 'sticking it to euroweenies' and the like.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Zoraptor

[Malcador]

Aggressive ROEs means what in this situation?

[213374U]

Shut them down as hard as necessary to make of them an object lesson: you're not getting in, so you'll have to fix your own nations as best you may.

 

 

Yeah. Pity that, more often than not, whenever they've tried that, America's seen it fit to bring about a bit of regime change to preserve "freedom and democracy".

 

It's pretty funny to see you folks piss against the wind and then be all like "damn wind!". You want to stop this ****? A good place to start is realizing that your political establishment caused the problem in the first place.

[Volourn]

Yup. Always blame outsiders for a country's problems. Wow. Isn't that what 'populists' like Trump are attacked for.

 

It is not Amerika's fault that Mexico is such a ****hole that Mexicans prefer to live in the US. *shrug*

 

 

 

"Sure you should, all that means you're not rejected outright - they'll look at the degree. If your country has death squads roaming around or gangs essentially owning parts of it, that's different from being mugged, right ?           "

 

Changing the defeintion of violence I see?

 

You claim that violence should be a reason to go ahead with asylum.

 

A mugging is violent. PERIOD.

 

But, now, you are changing the barometet. Look, at that. You agree with me. 'Threshold' of violence *does* matter when determining asylum. THANK YOU.

 

 

Now, good luck getting everyone to agree what that threshold should be.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Volourn

[213374U]

It is not Amerika's fault that Mexico is such a ****hole that Mexicans prefer to live in the US. *shrug*

 

It largely is, in fact. Mexico's violence problem stems from the "War on Drugs". That's not just a monumental failure and waste of lives and resources for the US internally, but a total cluster**** for much of Central and South America.

 

I guess that, in your mind, those places have always been ****holes, because... that's what they are, right? Or maybe all browns south of great Tecksus are just lazy and stupid and can't fix their countries so good.

[HoonDing]

sure gonna look good when some meathead gonna shoot some unarmed women and children