Low INT Skills

[jintegrity]

Is there a way to find out which skills benefit from low INT? I know this game tends to favor INT (more than PoE1, imo), but I thought I'd read there are a few DoTs that still benefit from Low INT, so I was curious if maybe there's a way to capitalize on that.

[Metaturtle]

You can go to the character stat sheet or right click your skills to look at the derived stats stats of skills.  Most character skills can be affected by INT and will have a updated numbers based on your current stats, which you can hover to find out what sources are affecting it.  There are some exceptions like weapons that do a flat duration and consumables that only are affected by its associated skill like alchemy and a few other items.

[jintegrity]

I mean like the DoTs that do their damage faster the shorter the spell duration, and that INT only makes them weaker.

[Boeroer]

You mean abilites, not skills.

 

The ones I know without looking it up: Disintegrate, Cleansing Flame, Wounding Shot, Deep Wounds, Wounding from weapons like Effort.

 

Basically everything that has a fixed damage over time. There are spells like Disint. and Clean. Flame that show the complete damage as tick (wrong in UI). Or abilites like Deep Wounds or that says x% of Weapon Damage as DoT. Those stuff all profits from low INT and even grazes (= also reduce the duration of the DoT) - because the damage is fixed and can only be influenced my MIG. Additional ticks don't add any more overall damage like with other DoTs. Substracted ticks don't substract damage. The overall damage is set in stone and therefore fewer ticks (from low INT or grazes) lead to fewer but higher dmg ticks (= higher dps) while more ticks (from longer duration) lead to more but lower dmg ticks (=lower dps).

 

And then there is that weird mechanic where the initial tick does more damage with very short INT (under 3 sec overall duration) so that at some point even the overall damage is higher with low INT and a graze, not only dps.  

[Metaturtle]

Ah yes abilities.  ! I remember a few people where experimenting with the street sweeper staff with -hostile effects enchant to see if it could speed up the process.  It seemed to be getting varied results though from others.

[Dorftek]

Boeroer are u 100% sure about deep wounds? I believe I tested it once and got the opposite result?

[Dorftek]

Ah yes abilities. ! I remember a few people where experimenting with the street sweeper staff with -hostile effects enchant to see if it could speed up the process. It seemed to be getting varied results though from others.

Indeed, at first I was getting what seemed to be "deep wound nukes" with that staff. So I made it with a ranger to try it with wounding shot. This was only giving me tics around 2 dmg. Next time I tried it on rogue again I'd only get deep wound triggers for around 1-2 dmg on him as well. So it's definitely doing something but it was mostly not for the benefit

[Boeroer]

Boeroer are u 100% sure about deep wounds? I believe I tested it once and got the opposite result?

No, not 100% sure. I just went by the description that says 20% of damage since that's usually the sign for "dumb DoT". It wasn't working like that in PoE (there high INT was beneficial).

 

Maybe I should have tested it first and not make assumptions.

[Dorftek]

 

Boeroer are u 100% sure about deep wounds? I believe I tested it once and got the opposite result?

No, not 100% sure. I just went by the description that says 20% of damage since that's usually the sign for "dumb DoT". It wasn't working like that in PoE (there high INT was beneficial).

 

Maybe I should have tested it first and not make assumptions.

No I wasn't pointing the assumption finger at u hehe, I was just sincerely wondering because I could just as well be wrong but I do believe I tested it when I made a 3 int vs a 19 int rogue test and came to the conclusion that the high int rogue was superior in every possible way Edited August 29, 2018 by Dorftek

[Boeroer]

That could be a nice new spell: "Finger of Assumption".  

[Dorftek]

Hahaha yeah, how would it work tho?

 

Edit: Come to think of it, iirc deep wounds would tic for the same dmg no matter the INT and more INT only added more tics.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Dorftek

[Boeroer]

Hm... I lets enemies assume that you cast a very deadly spell on them which lets them faint?

[grasida]

You mean abilites, not skills.

 

The ones I know without looking it up: Disintegrate, Cleansing Flame, Wounding Shot, Deep Wounds, Wounding from weapons like Effort.

 

Basically everything that has a fixed damage over time. There are spells like Disint. and Clean. Flame that show the complete damage as tick (wrong in UI). Or abilites like Deep Wounds or that says x% of Weapon Damage as DoT. Those stuff all profits from low INT and even grazes (= also reduce the duration of the DoT) - because the damage is fixed and can only be influenced my MIG. Additional ticks don't add any more overall damage like with other DoTs. Substracted ticks don't substract damage. The overall damage is set in stone and therefore fewer ticks (from low INT or grazes) lead to fewer but higher dmg ticks (= higher dps) while more ticks (from longer duration) lead to more but lower dmg ticks (=lower dps).

 

And then there is that weird mechanic where the initial tick does more damage with very short INT (under 3 sec overall duration) so that at some point even the overall damage is higher with low INT and a graze, not only dps.  

 

The overall damage isn't just higher if you go under 3 second duration, it's always higher if the duration is shorter. That's because the first tick doesn't "count" for the total damage of the DoT. The total damage starting from the second tick is the fixed damage that stays the same regardless of duration, but you get the damage of the first tick on top of that. So if each tick is bigger, you have more total damage, since you're getting more "free" damage from the first tick.

 

The weird thing that happens when the duration goes under 3 seconds is that the first tick will do more damage than the expected total of the DoT, proportionally to how low the duration is under 3 seconds. Then the second tick does exactly the total expected damage. I've only tested that with cleansing flame, though.

 

As an example:

If cleansing flame has a duration of 6 seconds, it will do 3 ticks of 40, 40, 40 = 120 total damage.

If cleansing flame has a duration of 5 seconds, it will do 3 ticks of 48, 48, 32 = 128 total damage.

If cleansing flame has a duration of 1.4 seconds (1 int), it will do 2 ticks of 175, 80 = 255 total damage.

[Metaturtle]

 

You mean abilites, not skills.

 

The ones I know without looking it up: Disintegrate, Cleansing Flame, Wounding Shot, Deep Wounds, Wounding from weapons like Effort.

 

Basically everything that has a fixed damage over time. There are spells like Disint. and Clean. Flame that show the complete damage as tick (wrong in UI). Or abilites like Deep Wounds or that says x% of Weapon Damage as DoT. Those stuff all profits from low INT and even grazes (= also reduce the duration of the DoT) - because the damage is fixed and can only be influenced my MIG. Additional ticks don't add any more overall damage like with other DoTs. Substracted ticks don't substract damage. The overall damage is set in stone and therefore fewer ticks (from low INT or grazes) lead to fewer but higher dmg ticks (= higher dps) while more ticks (from longer duration) lead to more but lower dmg ticks (=lower dps).

 

And then there is that weird mechanic where the initial tick does more damage with very short INT (under 3 sec overall duration) so that at some point even the overall damage is higher with low INT and a graze, not only dps.

The overall damage isn't just higher if you go under 3 second duration, it's always higher if the duration is shorter. That's because the first tick doesn't "count" for the total damage of the DoT. The total damage starting from the second tick is the fixed damage that stays the same regardless of duration, but you get the damage of the first tick on top of that. So if each tick is bigger, you have more total damage, since you're getting more "free" damage from the first tick.

 

The weird thing that happens when the duration goes under 3 seconds is that the first tick will do more damage than the expected total of the DoT, proportionally to how low the duration is under 3 seconds. Then the second tick does exactly the total expected damage. I've only tested that with cleansing flame, though.

 

As an example:

If cleansing flame has a duration of 6 seconds, it will do 3 ticks of 40, 40, 40 = 120 total damage.

If cleansing flame has a duration of 5 seconds, it will do 3 ticks of 48, 48, 32 = 128 total damage.

If cleansing flame has a duration of 1.4 seconds (1 int), it will do 2 ticks of 175, 80 = 255 total damage.

Ring of mule's wit here I come baby!

[thundercleese]

Boeroer are u 100% sure about deep wounds? I believe I tested it once and got the opposite result?

I did some testing with a Scout using Wounding shot and Deep Wounds does indeed benefit from low INT. Can't be bothered looking for the thread I posted it in but I believe it was the one about Essence Interrupter builds? I then tested if having a high RES would increase damage taken by such DoTs (it does).

 

But yes grasida's testing (and bug report) was much more thorough.

[brasilgringo]

 

 

You mean abilites, not skills.

 

The ones I know without looking it up: Disintegrate, Cleansing Flame, Wounding Shot, Deep Wounds, Wounding from weapons like Effort.

 

Basically everything that has a fixed damage over time. There are spells like Disint. and Clean. Flame that show the complete damage as tick (wrong in UI). Or abilites like Deep Wounds or that says x% of Weapon Damage as DoT. Those stuff all profits from low INT and even grazes (= also reduce the duration of the DoT) - because the damage is fixed and can only be influenced my MIG. Additional ticks don't add any more overall damage like with other DoTs. Substracted ticks don't substract damage. The overall damage is set in stone and therefore fewer ticks (from low INT or grazes) lead to fewer but higher dmg ticks (= higher dps) while more ticks (from longer duration) lead to more but lower dmg ticks (=lower dps).

 

And then there is that weird mechanic where the initial tick does more damage with very short INT (under 3 sec overall duration) so that at some point even the overall damage is higher with low INT and a graze, not only dps.

The overall damage isn't just higher if you go under 3 second duration, it's always higher if the duration is shorter. That's because the first tick doesn't "count" for the total damage of the DoT. The total damage starting from the second tick is the fixed damage that stays the same regardless of duration, but you get the damage of the first tick on top of that. So if each tick is bigger, you have more total damage, since you're getting more "free" damage from the first tick.

 

The weird thing that happens when the duration goes under 3 seconds is that the first tick will do more damage than the expected total of the DoT, proportionally to how low the duration is under 3 seconds. Then the second tick does exactly the total expected damage. I've only tested that with cleansing flame, though.

 

As an example:

If cleansing flame has a duration of 6 seconds, it will do 3 ticks of 40, 40, 40 = 120 total damage.

If cleansing flame has a duration of 5 seconds, it will do 3 ticks of 48, 48, 32 = 128 total damage.

If cleansing flame has a duration of 1.4 seconds (1 int), it will do 2 ticks of 175, 80 = 255 total damage.

Ring of mule's wit here I come baby!

 

i assume some sort of assassin/soulblade combo is going to be good here (given rogue DoTs and I think soul annihilation not benefiting from Int?)

 

if anyone is theorycrafting, love to see some builds built around the Ring of Mule's Wit and low Int

Edited August 29, 2018 by brasilgringo

[Boeroer]

I was planning to do a playthrough with such a dumbster.

[dunehunter]

This is absolutely a Pitfall of current attribution system, which aims for that every attribution should be useful and not being dumped. But sadly for a DoT dps build, dump INT seems to be a good way to boost damage.

[Somnium_Meum]

Depends, some DoT builds are better with as high INT as possible, for example Combusting Wounds are much stronger at 30+ INT

[jintegrity]

This is absolutely a Pitfall of current attribution system, which aims for that every attribution should be useful and not being dumped. But sadly for a DoT dps build, dump INT seems to be a good way to boost damage.

I think, without interesting interactions like this, increasing stats isn't a real choice: you always do it. I prefer there being reasons to not, just so there are interesting decisions and alternatives to be made.

 

Especially with Cipher, weakening their substantial repertoire of afflictions, inspirations, and buffs just for a better Disintegration (a PL 6 ability!) is a huge tradeoff, but at least there's a reason to do something besides stack INT on every Cipher ever (which a lot of people complained about in PoE1's Barbarian).

 

I personally think INT is the second best stat in the game (after PER), which is why I made this thread in the first place.  

[dunehunter]

 

This is absolutely a Pitfall of current attribution system, which aims for that every attribution should be useful and not being dumped. But sadly for a DoT dps build, dump INT seems to be a good way to boost damage.

I think, without interesting interactions like this, increasing stats isn't a real choice: you always do it. I prefer there being reasons to not, just so there are interesting decisions and alternatives to be made.

 

Especially with Cipher, weakening their substantial repertoire of afflictions, inspirations, and buffs just for a better Disintegration (a PL 6 ability!) is a huge tradeoff, but at least there's a reason to do something besides stack INT on every Cipher ever (which a lot of people complained about in PoE1's Barbarian).

 

I personally think INT is the second best stat in the game (after PER), which is why I made this thread in the first place.

 

 

Increase stats should always get u more benefit, the 'interesting decisions' you mentioned should between stats, so its up to you to value which stats will benefit your build more. Not when increase stats hinders your build while dump it make your build better, it's just a lame setting imo.

[jintegrity]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then.

Maxing INT on every Priest and Cipher isn't really a decision though, as it's just optimal in every situation except in the rare Cleansing Flame/Disintegration build.

Rogue reducing INT loses time on their invisibility, and their substantial number of debuffs, for a passive that apparently (as evidenced by other posts in the thread) doesn't even work the way other fixed damage DoTs do.

Ranger loses time on their Quick buff, and I'm sure very few low-INT builds damage make up for the loss of Action Speed in long-term DPS, and even if Ranger does, that's one class that benefits in a game where INT is either the second best or best attribute in the game.

I'd argue no build is truly "better" by dumping INT as you not only lose the above benefits, but scrolls, potions, and drugs are also less effective for you, which leaves your character only really functional in a very narrow niche of increasing the damage of a minuscule number of abilities, and I'm not even sure the damage is more than what other classes can dish out without pigeonholing themselves into a very narrow, specific niche.

It's interesting as an alternative. Of course, if you feel the way you do, you can always submit a bug report about all the above, well-documented abilities, and see if Obsidian feels the same.

[InsaneCommander]

The ones I know without looking it up: Disintegrate, Cleansing Flame, Wounding Shot, Deep Wounds, Wounding from weapons like Effort.

 

Is this really intended? I can't believe they wanted to "punish" characters with high int.

[dunehunter]

@jintegrity I’m the one who first raise a thread talking about low INT benefits DoT, the bug report is in forum, slept with many other bugs I reported Guess game mechanism bugs are not so priority as other kind of bugs.

[thundercleese]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then.

 

Maxing INT on every Priest and Cipher isn't really a decision though, as it's just optimal in every situation except in the rare Cleansing Flame/Disintegration build.

 

Rogue reducing INT loses time on their invisibility, and their substantial number of debuffs, for a passive that apparently (as evidenced by other posts in the thread) doesn't even work the way other fixed damage DoTs do.

 

Ranger loses time on their Quick buff, and I'm sure very few low-INT builds damage make up for the loss of Action Speed in long-term DPS, and even if Ranger does, that's one class that benefits in a game where INT is either the second best or best attribute in the game.

 

I'd argue no build is truly "better" by dumping INT as you not only lose the above benefits, but scrolls, potions, and drugs are also less effective for you, which leaves your character only really functional in a very narrow niche of increasing the damage of a minuscule number of abilities, and I'm not even sure the damage is more than what other classes can dish out without pigeonholing themselves into a very narrow, specific niche.

 

It's interesting as an alternative. Of course, if you feel the way you do, you can always submit a bug report about all the above, well-documented abilities, and see if Obsidian feels the same.

Deep wounds behaves the same as the other fixed damage DoTs in that low INT = more DPS. If the enemy has a high resolve this will also increase DPS (as well as total damage done).