BOW - did the rules re: perma-death change here? (spoilers?)

[wanderon]

Ok so my party enters BOW at level 15 - takes forever to down the first enemy that appears but we all manage to get through it. Take on our new companion  rest our weary bones at the inn (to remove any injuries suffered) and then head up to the next area.>

 

So as we enter the area my archers are plinking away at one of those devices that generate spells within a given radius and some enemies approach - I send Eder over to finish knocking out the device  as enemies are already over running the group and next thing I know both Eder and another companion have died permanently (disappeared completely) and eventually the rest of the crew bites the dust. Then to add insult to injury the games hangs when I try to reload and I have to shut down with the task manager.

 

Now I am playing on "Classic" which I thought only permanently removed companions if they had too many wounds ( 3 ? ) already when they died - otherwise they got up after the battle ended. Is that no longer so in the BOW area?      

[house2fly]

You definitely didn't have the troll pet equipped, right?

[wanderon]

You definitely didn't have the troll pet equipped, right?

 

Don't think I even have a troll pet ??

 

- I think we have one of the cats equipped  - increases AoE for spells for watcher and party.

[fgalkin]

Was it a Sigil of Death that you were knocking down, by any chance? 

[wanderon]

Was it a Sigil of Death that you were knocking down, by any chance? 

 It was indeed - it recently occurred to me that might have something to do with it ( we weren't really there long enough to read the fine print on everything the first time)

 

- so I'm guessing there is no getting back up from that one?  Seems a bit harsh for "classic"   

 

altho we did manage to finish the fight AND safely kill off the sigils on our second attempt but it took forever to do so and we had to bring Aloth back 3 times and Eder once altho to be fair this isn't the most powerful group of n'ere do wells to ever grace the Deadfire...

 

( Watcher - priest of Wael, Aloth Battlemage, Eder Swashbuckler, Tekehu - chanter/druid, new guy - chanter preist)  Yikes!  

[fgalkin]

Each hit from a sigil of death gives you an injury. 4 injuries=death. There are wardstones that protect you from a sigil's effects, which last until the next rest. 

 

Also, the range of a warbow or an arquebus is greater than a sigil's pulse area, so you can safely snipe at it from far away without any of your characters getting hit. 

Edited August 21, 2018 by fgalkin

[Taevyr]

I usually either snipe sigils before battle or send someone ahead to pull the enemies out of the pulse range.

 

Arquebus and warbows are excellent for sniping, though you need a weapon with another type of damage to take down the ones immune to pierce/slash

[Verde]

A Sigil of Death. One of the dumbest mechanics in recent memory.

[aweigh0101]

Just use console to review/respawn NPCs, and/or respec them if necessary.

[wanderon]

The party awoke in their room at the tavern in Port Maje having all apparently shared the same vision of sailing to Harbingers Watch and two intense battles they fought there.  Eder seemed convinced he had actually died in the icy realm and swore his soul had been winging across the seas and that he had awoken just as the Eothas Colossus in his giant glowing green glory had appeared on the horizon and pointed at him.

 

Aloth suddenly began to rise scrambling from his chair eyes wild, chest pumping, gibberish sputtering through his open mouth. Lost in a memory of ice and snow covered stones splattered by blood and body parts and a huge cave bear was snarling and chuffing out a noisy spray of blood and saliva. it's huge swinging paw was suddenly slowed to a crawl as it was approaching his head and there was a small explosion of silver gold and blue dust erupting from his hands as the spirit lance he held blinked out of existence and his hands could not seem to follow the directions he was sending them and his mouth opened and the sound began to swell as Eder grabbed his shoulder and asked if he was OK.

 

The priest and druid had been sitting at the back of the booth holding mugs of steaming enchanted tea in front of them with both hands and chanting softy together with heads bowed and eyes closed when Aloths cry ripped through the very fabric of the rooms reality and they both were spitting spells of protection and alacrity as they rose from their seats and their eyes flew open and the sounds of the spells then shriveled and died on their lips as they realized they were safe and Aloth had apparently just lost it for a moment.

 

The captain jumped on to a chair and addressed the nervous patrons assuring them all was well and ordered drinks for the house as Aloth was helped into his chair and the group settled back into their seats and began to work out a plan from here. They spent half the morning talking it out over breakfast followed by numerous rounds of coarse black ale and shots of some locally distilled rotgut that brought tears to the eyes as it seared it's way into their system.

 

Eventually they all agreed that they should finish up a few more of their tasks locally and perhaps gather some additional gear before heading east to find out what truly awaits them in Harbingers Watch and they set out for the harbor.

 

As the sun beat down at midday in Port Maje the party left the tavern and a handful of locals who were hanging out on the docks when they passed swear their figures began to fade as they  walked down the docks and clambered up the gangplank to board the Dhow Uriahs Heap, They could hear orders given and sails were set as ship was soon heading out of the port quickly gathering speed and disappearing into a fog bank that seem to rise around it... 

 

It is said neither ship nor crew has been seen since that day...

 

Meanwhile a red headed dwarf  called Cap Crimson sat across the table from the Pallid Knight. As he listened intently to her appeal in the present his subconscious mind was also working as he began to peruse the possibility of channeling the muscle of these marching orders she was laying out for him with the essence of  pure power he might siphon from his association with the so called Gods that are offering him this unprecedented opportunity into a personal payday so immense that the former glory of Cad Nua might seem like a peasants hovel in the Gullet by comparison.  As she prattled on he began to design the perfect vessel for a captain with a handful of Gods in his pocket and the sort of crew that would serve him as he set out to conquer the Deadfire.

 

As the dwarf walked away from her the Pallid Knight frowned - something bothered her and she had a sudden premonition they may have just made a huge mistake....

 

 

So sayeth the the God of Restarts....

[Boeroer]

A Sigil of Death. One of the dumbest mechanics in recent memory.

I say it's one of the nicest mechanics in Deadfire. Adds a bit of puzzle to the game. Because you just have to activate the wardstone or snipe them.

 

By the way it doesn't matter if Classic or PotD: 4 injuries is perma-death on all difficulties afaik. Actually I have no idea about Story Time though...

Edited August 23, 2018 by Boeroer

[InsaneCommander]

Was it a Sigil of Death that you were knocking down, by any chance? 

 

I usually destroy sigils before battle, but I didn't notice the one near Concelhaut and I was as confused as the op.

 

A Sigil of Death. One of the dumbest mechanics in recent memory.

 

I hated it. Took me a while to understand what was going on.

[Hawke64]

There's usually a wardstone in the same area as the Death Sigil. I remember 3, including the DLC.

 

Sandswept ruins, south from Port Maje; Nemnok's dungeon, north-west of the map; and the above-mentioned pilgrims' camp. The wardstone for the latter is on one of the corpses west from the camp, if I'm not mistaken.

 

Also, how does one destroy these Sigils without wardstones (i.e hitting them in melee with a mace)? Spells (such as Minoletta's missiles) are deflected back at the caster and firearms don't have crush as their damage type.

[InsaneCommander]

There's usually a wardstone in the same area as the Death Sigil. I remember 3, including the DLC.

 

Sandswept ruins, south from Port Maje; Nemnok's dungeon, north-west of the map; and the above-mentioned pilgrims' camp. The wardstone for the latter is on one of the corpses west from the camp, if I'm not mistaken.

 

Also, how does one destroy these Sigils without wardstones (i.e hitting them in melee with a mace)? Spells (such as Minoletta's missiles) are deflected back at the caster and firearms don't have crush as their damage type.

 

I use spells like rolling flame or lightning. But anything that has a good range will work.

[Zap Gun For Hire]

Arquebus and warbows are excellent for sniping, though you need a weapon with another type of damage to take down the ones immune to pierce/slash

 

Unless one has Frostseeker, of course.

 

Frostseeker starts pummeling a sigil.

POWPOWPOW.

"Hey Bob, that sigil is shorting out again.  Go check it out okay?"

POWPOWPOW

"Sure thing, George."

*Bob walks over to Sigil*

POW POW "OWWWWWW!!!"

*combat music starts up*

Edited August 23, 2018 by Zap Gun For Hire

[fgalkin]

There's usually a wardstone in the same area as the Death Sigil. I remember 3, including the DLC.

 

Sandswept ruins, south from Port Maje; Nemnok's dungeon, north-west of the map; and the above-mentioned pilgrims' camp. The wardstone for the latter is on one of the corpses west from the camp, if I'm not mistaken.

 

Also, how does one destroy these Sigils without wardstones (i.e hitting them in melee with a mace)? Spells (such as Minoletta's missiles) are deflected back at the caster and firearms don't have crush as their damage type.

Sigil of Death doesn't have any immunities. The ones that do can be dealt with AOE spells or ranged weapons that don't do pierce damage (the frost bow, that pistol that does raw damage, etc). 

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

I usually either snipe sigils before battle or send someone ahead to pull the enemies out of the pulse range.

 

Arquebus and warbows are excellent for sniping, though you need a weapon with another type of damage to take down the ones immune to pierce/slash

 

SCepter usually works fine.

[Katarack21]

I hate, hate, hate the Sigil of Death. Then again, I'm not a big fan of the "die at four red dots" mechanic as a whole. I feel like it doesn't have enough nuance to be interesting, artificially inflates the value of mechanics to a near requirement because traps cause injuries, and forces rest spamming because at three dots you either rest or virtually guarantee that character will go away.

[Tick]

I actually liked the sigil of death. It really punk'd me a couple of times and now I'm always really wary of any sigil and where the characters are placed. It's genuinely kind of scary because it's easy to miss if you don't pay attention and it perma kills (an actual, serious consequence) fast.

[Zap Gun For Hire]

I actually liked the sigil of death. It really punk'd me a couple of times and now I'm always really wary of any sigil and where the characters are placed. It's genuinely kind of scary because it's easy to miss if you don't pay attention and it perma kills (an actual, serious consequence) fast.

I alluded to this earlier with my Frostseeker joke, but sigils work exactly the same way as barrels and other items in that by attacking them, it attracts nearby enemies to investigate the sound it makes when getting hit.

 

While I haven't done it yet (nor needed to), there's probably some fun instances where one can attack a sigil at range, get a group of enemies to cluster around it, and then fire off a high level/high damage AoE spell/effect right on top of their heads, softening them all up before combat.

 

I haven't been reading the CharOps forum all that much, but I would think this sort of tactic should have SOME utility.  Or at the very least, have utility in being funny.

[Tick]

 

I actually liked the sigil of death. It really punk'd me a couple of times and now I'm always really wary of any sigil and where the characters are placed. It's genuinely kind of scary because it's easy to miss if you don't pay attention and it perma kills (an actual, serious consequence) fast.

I alluded to this earlier with my Frostseeker joke, but sigils work exactly the same way as barrels and other items in that by attacking them, it attracts nearby enemies to investigate the sound it makes when getting hit.

 

While I haven't done it yet (nor needed to), there's probably some fun instances where one can attack a sigil at range, get a group of enemies to cluster around it, and then fire off a high level/high damage AoE spell/effect right on top of their heads, softening them all up before combat.

 

I haven't been reading the CharOps forum all that much, but I would think this sort of tactic should have SOME utility. Or at the very least, have utility in being funny.

Ha. I hadn't even thought of that! That's clever.

[wanderon]

While I have noticed some groupings of barrels explode when hit I have been unable to determine a method to reliably make that happen at the right moment (when they are surrounded by enemies). At one point I thought it would only happen if there was a pile of gunpowder on the ground or floor with a group of barrels (like it was a spill) but even when I am able to determine that is the case a successful explosion of the entire grouping seems to almost never occur.