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Bokishi

Nvidia RTX Series

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They're so damn expensive, though, if the leaks are to be believed.  We've now entered a time where the xx80 Ti costs what a Titan used to cost.  The problem is that in the high-end Nvidia is competing with itself.  AMD has nothing to compete with this card, nor the 2080, and, if reports are to be believed, they won't for several years because their focus is currently on the chip that will power the PS5, so their aim is more at power efficiency than it is raw power.  Because of this Nvidia can charge pretty much whatever they want for their high-end cards.  I mean, those cards have traditionally always been overpriced, as are most high-end products, but this is ridiculous.

Edited by Keyrock

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My current video card is coming up on 4 years old now, and it's a model from pretty much 5 years ago (290X). I think that's the longest run with any one video card since the EGA card that was in the old 286 which we owned until 1994.

Edited by Humanoid

L I E S T R O N G
L I V E W R O N G

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Might be time to keep an eye out for second hand GTX1080 ti's then.


Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken

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They're so damn expensive, though, if the leaks are to be believed.  We've now entered a time where the xx80 Ti costs what a Titan used to cost.  The problem is that in the high-end Nvidia is competing with itself.  AMD has nothing to compete with this card, nor the 2080, and, if reports are to be believed, they won't for several years because their focus is currently on the chip that will power the PS5, so their aim is more at power efficiency than it is raw power.  Because of this Nvidia can charge pretty much whatever they want for their high-end cards.  I mean, those cards have traditionally always been overpriced, as are most high-end products, but this is ridiculous.

Raja Kaduri, who was the head of AMD's graphics division, has gone to intel and now intel is saying they will be releasing graphics cards. He had a big fight with Lisa Su (the CEO) because she wanted to focus more on the next gen console hardware and this was why Vega came out sub-par, when his team's design could clearly become a very competitive product to the best nvidia had to offer and even ride on the success of ryzen to get a big share of the market


The words freedom and liberty, are diminishing the true meaning of the abstract concept they try to explain. The true nature of freedom is such, that the human mind is unable to comprehend it, so we make a cage and name it freedom in order to give a tangible meaning to what we dont understand, just as our ancestors made gods like Thor or Zeus to explain thunder.

 

-Teknoman2-

What? You thought it was a quote from some well known wise guy from the past?

 

Stupidity leads to willful ignorance - willful ignorance leads to hope - hope leads to sex - and that is how a new generation of fools is born!


We are hardcore role players... When we go to bed with a girl, we roll a D20 to see if we hit the target and a D6 to see how much penetration damage we did.

 

Modern democracy is: the sheep voting for which dog will be the shepherd's right hand.

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Raja Kaduri, who was the head of AMD's graphics division, has gone to intel and now intel is saying they will be releasing graphics cards. He had a big fight with Lisa Su (the CEO) because she wanted to focus more on the next gen console hardware and this was why Vega came out sub-par, when his team's design could clearly become a very competitive product to the best nvidia had to offer and even ride on the success of ryzen to get a big share of the market

In fairness to Lisa Su, AMD, at the time, was strapped for cash and simply couldn't afford to invest heavily into r & d on all fronts, she had to make some compromises somewhere and decided to sacrifice Radeon's high-end in favor of investing in design for Zen and upcoming PS5 chips.  Given AMD's recent financial performance and the success of Zen, the consensus seems to be that she made the right call.

 

It will be interesting to see what becomes of Intel's graphics division with Raja Kaduri at the helm, but whatever happens it's at least a couple of years away.  Until then, and until at least whatever comes after Navi, we're stuck with Nvidia holding a monopoly in high-end gpus, which sucks.  And I'm not even a Nvidia hater, I just hate a company, any company holding a monopoly over any segment of the market, because it's inherently bad for consumers.

 

Edit:  Anyway, my original plan was to build a new desktop rig in about a year or so targeting 4K, but that plan got scrapped when I changed career paths and became a trucker.  No point in investing in a beefy desktop rig if I'm only going to get to use it a few days a year.  Instead, I'm looking to buy a fairly powerful gaming laptop in the next few months.  The plan is to get a laptop with a 17" screen that can max out pretty much any game out now and coming down the pipeline in the next couple years at 1080p.  4K or even 1440p seem like overkill for a 17" screen.  At that screen size you get increasingly diminishing returns moving to 1440p, never mind 4K, at a steep increase in price for the hardware necessary to power it.  I'm of the opinion that you need at least a 24" screen to justify 1440p and at least 30" to justify 4K.  With that in mind, I'd be buying a laptop with a GTX 1060 if I had to buy one today, but I'll probably target something with a 2060, since that should future-proof that a bit better.  Hopefully the mid-level cards from Team Green will be less outrageously overpriced than the high-end cards.

Edited by Keyrock

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Guess Jensen was true to his word when saying he thought gpus were massively underpriced. 2080Ti non FE MSRP confirmed more expensive than my entire computer.

 

nVidia 20 series page, for the carnage information from the horse's mouth.

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But ... how much of an actual gaming performance boost are we talking about, over the 1080ti (which I skipped, since the 980ti is still absolutely fine for me)? And will it do 60+fps/4k consistently (instead of 30ish) on taxing games with high/max settings and all the nvidiaworks on etc?

 

I have no issue with the price for something I buy only once every 3-5 years but not much point for my current old system so.

I will build a new rig specifically for 4k gaming performance at some point but I'm still too lazy/still don't care enough. I guess I'm finally too "old" and not geeky enough to become very excited at hardware releases. On top of that, I'd also need a few more games that I really want/like that require or benefit from such upgrades first. I spent enough just because of FFXV-only already.

 

That all said ... it's nice to know when I do get around to stuff, the performance increase will be so noticeably massive that I may need to chain it to the desk to keep it from launching into outer space.


“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts

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to be honest they never really gave any concrete numbers but a generic "faster", instead focusing exclusively on ray tracing


The words freedom and liberty, are diminishing the true meaning of the abstract concept they try to explain. The true nature of freedom is such, that the human mind is unable to comprehend it, so we make a cage and name it freedom in order to give a tangible meaning to what we dont understand, just as our ancestors made gods like Thor or Zeus to explain thunder.

 

-Teknoman2-

What? You thought it was a quote from some well known wise guy from the past?

 

Stupidity leads to willful ignorance - willful ignorance leads to hope - hope leads to sex - and that is how a new generation of fools is born!


We are hardcore role players... When we go to bed with a girl, we roll a D20 to see if we hit the target and a D6 to see how much penetration damage we did.

 

Modern democracy is: the sheep voting for which dog will be the shepherd's right hand.

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They have publicly claimed 'up to 6x more powerful' on their product page; although that could easily be either versus a previous gen running ray tracing via software, or compared to a ddr3 1030 for all we know. I'd suspect AMD claiming Vega64 > 1080Ti based on TFLOPS would be more practically honest than the 6x claim.

 

Supposedly it's a pretty big jump in performance over the last generation, around 30%, but we won't know for sure until we get solid independent benchmarks.

 

That certainly seems to be the general consensus, though I'm actually expecting rather less than that. The focus on raytracing and lack of significant die shrink with associated 'free' performance gain- Maxwell/ Pascal was 28 to 16/14, so significant; this one is 16/14 to effectively 14nm+- suggests to me that conventional performance may not be as good as expected.

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The words freedom and liberty, are diminishing the true meaning of the abstract concept they try to explain. The true nature of freedom is such, that the human mind is unable to comprehend it, so we make a cage and name it freedom in order to give a tangible meaning to what we dont understand, just as our ancestors made gods like Thor or Zeus to explain thunder.

 

-Teknoman2-

What? You thought it was a quote from some well known wise guy from the past?

 

Stupidity leads to willful ignorance - willful ignorance leads to hope - hope leads to sex - and that is how a new generation of fools is born!


We are hardcore role players... When we go to bed with a girl, we roll a D20 to see if we hit the target and a D6 to see how much penetration damage we did.

 

Modern democracy is: the sheep voting for which dog will be the shepherd's right hand.

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Did anyone expect the new top # 'ti' version of an nvidia series to not be expensive? There are always those that want to buy the latest every single time even when they don't really need the boost yet, (like those who bought a 1080ti and now want this new one and feel peeved) but I'd guess sales-wise that's a fairly low percentage. And if you don't care about ray tracing yet ...


“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts

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Real talk nobody actually has any of these GPUs in their fingers to benchmark, the same warning about never preorder *ever* applies just as much to these GPUs

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I'm already looking forward to a whole bunch of games over the next half decade or so where everything is way too shiny and reflective so that the developers can show off ray tracing.

So it's going to be like the good old days with bloom?

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I'm already looking forward to a whole bunch of games over the next half decade or so where everything is way too shiny and reflective so that the developers can show off ray tracing.

So it's going to be like the good old days with bloom?

 

Ah yes, the good ol' games using way too much bloom period.  That was even before the age of unnecessary lens flare.  :lol:

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They have publicly claimed 'up to 6x more powerful' on their product page; although that could easily be either versus a previous gen running ray tracing via software, or compared to a ddr3 1030 for all we know. I'd suspect AMD claiming Vega64 > 1080Ti based on TFLOPS would be more practically honest than the 6x claim.

 

Seems you were bang on. The new 2080's are up to 6x faster for raytracing than the 1080's according to that video teknoman posted.


Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken

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Opens up options and switches ray tracing off.

That's pretty much my take on it. I've seen that Metro demo video and was not impressed by some kind of vast improvement on "realism." I'd much rather they work on gpu's (and pc hardware in general) that can handle mega quality textures everywhere (vs. some being muddy, some great). Like in that Metro video there was a beautiful patch of wavy grass and lying in that was a zombie with muddy clothing textures. Way to ruin the look.

 

Anyway...ray tracing could enhance some stuff but it all depends on what and how game dev's implement it I'd imagine. Even today, some games overdo bloom and similar (and won't let you turn it off) while others use it more pleasantly.

Edited by LadyCrimson

“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts

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Some fairly interesting analysis of the information around. Though Bokishi, you should stay away from this video. ;)

 

Also; RIP AMD GPU's.

Edited by Azdeus

Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken

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The 20 series pricing is about the best thing that could have happened for AMD under the circumstances, since they're competing for people who would already be buying 1080Ti+ performance/ price cards it's irrelevant to AMD, at this point- cheaper releases would have been far worse for AMD. I'd expect a consumer 7nm release from AMD as well which ought to improve Vega's efficiency and performance significantly.

 

The ultimate problem for AMD is that nVidia will have massive scope to cut pricing which they don't have, but Jensen doesn't seem interested in offering 'value' propositions until forced to.

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