Ansalons One Handed Melee Weapon Tier List

[Ansalon]

 

 

 

I haven't tested them all

Then the list is of little relevance, right?

 

Because judging weapons based on their description alone doesn't work well.

 

Take Scordeos Edge: you can't know that its bonuses work for all weapons you use unless you used it. You'd have to test it to find out.

 

Also that Grave Calling and Hel Beckoning can be used to summon imps that don't count towards the summon limit and let you create a huge imp army (if you pair it with the right classes) can only be experienced by testing (or reading people's posts about testing).

 

Another example (not one-handed though): the Espirs estoc will proc Ghost Blades on kill. That's the description. Sounds rather lame because Ghost Blades only have 8-11 base damage. What the description doesn't say and what you can only find out via testing is that those Ghost Blades profit from the enchantments of the blade, from all passive abilities that work with the blade (e.g. Sneak Attach, Two Handed Style etc.). And that not only kills with the Blade trigger those "empowered" Ghost Blades but all kills as long as you hold the weapon. This includes the Ghost Blades themselves which can therefore proc themselves. So, the difference between description and actual behavior is huge.

 

There are so many behaviors that only get revealed once you use an item - a tier list (partially) based on item description is rather pointless in my opinion.

You are taking the statement "I haven't tested them all" and turn it into "I have done 0 tests" which is a strawman argument and very disingenuous.

And you are using a personal attack to express your frustration.

 

I never said that you did 0 tests. You said you didn't test them all - I say that the list is rather pointless then. Because some of your opinions are based on tests and some not. And we can't say which ones. So we can't trust your judgement on all of them because we always must fear that you didn't test that one particular item I'm interested in.

 

This is not personal - I just don't think your list is good. If you will improve it in the future with edits, based on feedback then I will be happy to tap your shoulder - even though I generally think that tier lists in Deadfire are... difficult. Better make an informative list of pros and cons and recommendations for which build/role a certain item would be useful. But even a tier list would be ok. It will always be biased but as long as the infos around it are correct it's good enough.

 

I'm not sure where I did a personal attack. It's abit hard to follow since we have posted in multiple places but if I did, I'm sorry. As i pointed out in another post you did make the claim serveral times that I had only based my information of wikis and had no ingame experience with it. But again, I'm willing to drop it and discuss the actual game.

[Boeroer]

You said among other things; "As with the other two lists: no point when having no in-game experience with them or reading about in-game experience." and "Because judging weapons based on their description alone doesn't work well." How is this not claiming I did 0 tests?

 

In a lot of ways: Interpret it as I meant it: "no point [making a tier list] when having no in-game experience with [several of] them" and "because judging weapons based on their description alone [and putting them into a tier list with others you did test] doesn't work well".

 

Don't read something mean(er) into my sentences than there is.

 

I never said you did zero tests nor that you have no in-game experience at all. I said a tier list is pointless because you put items in there that you have tested and ones that you haven't. The "no in-game experience" and "description alone" was aimed at those items, not all of your posts.

[Boeroer]

I'm not sure where I did a personal attack. It's abit hard to follow since we have posted in multiple places but if I did, I'm sorry. As i pointed out in another post you did make the claim serveral times that I had only based my information of wikis and had no ingame experience with it. But again, I'm willing to drop it and discuss the actual game.

You called me disingenous. But that's no problem, I'm not offended by it - so just forget it.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Boeroer

[Ansalon]

 

I'm not sure where I did a personal attack. It's abit hard to follow since we have posted in multiple places but if I did, I'm sorry. As i pointed out in another post you did make the claim serveral times that I had only based my information of wikis and had no ingame experience with it. But again, I'm willing to drop it and discuss the actual game.

You called me disingenous. But that's no problem, I'm not offended by it - so just forget it.

 

Ah yes sorry it came out abit wrong. I intended to say that strawman arguments are disingenous, not you as a person.

[Ansalon]

 

 

 

I haven't tested them all

Then the list is of little relevance, right?

 

Because judging weapons based on their description alone doesn't work well.

 

Take Scordeos Edge: you can't know that its bonuses work for all weapons you use unless you used it. You'd have to test it to find out.

 

Also that Grave Calling and Hel Beckoning can be used to summon imps that don't count towards the summon limit and let you create a huge imp army (if you pair it with the right classes) can only be experienced by testing (or reading people's posts about testing).

 

Another example (not one-handed though): the Espirs estoc will proc Ghost Blades on kill. That's the description. Sounds rather lame because Ghost Blades only have 8-11 base damage. What the description doesn't say and what you can only find out via testing is that those Ghost Blades profit from the enchantments of the blade, from all passive abilities that work with the blade (e.g. Sneak Attach, Two Handed Style etc.). And that not only kills with the Blade trigger those "empowered" Ghost Blades but all kills as long as you hold the weapon. This includes the Ghost Blades themselves which can therefore proc themselves. So, the difference between description and actual behavior is huge.

 

There are so many behaviors that only get revealed once you use an item - a tier list (partially) based on item description is rather pointless in my opinion.

You are taking the statement "I haven't tested them all" and turn it into "I have done 0 tests" which is a strawman argument and very disingenuous.

And you are using a personal attack to express your frustration.

 

I never said that you did 0 tests. You said you didn't test them all - I say that the list is rather pointless then. Because some of your opinions are based on tests and some not. And we can't say which ones. So we can't trust your judgement on all of them because we always must fear that you didn't test that one particular item I'm interested in.

 

This is not personal - I just don't think your list is good. If you will improve it in the future with edits, based on feedback then I will be happy to tap your shoulder - even though I generally think that tier lists in Deadfire are... difficult. Better make an informative list of pros and cons and recommendations for which build/role a certain item would be useful. But even a tier list would be ok. It will always be biased but as long as the infos around it are correct it's good enough.

 

You are entitled to think my list isn't very good. The only thing I ask is that you read the guide the way it's intended and stop taking things out of context. I think all of the factual statements are correct (I did go by ingame values after Patch 1.2 but obviosuly some might be incorrect). The rest of course, is subjective opinion, and is liable to change based on new information. A very clear cut example is if someone tries to imply I mean that Miscreant's Leather is the armor that is going to make you deal the most damage, which is a pretty far-fetched way of stretching the intention behind my comments for the armor.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Ansalon

[arkane83]

I'm already wrote this in your armor post, but just group weapon by their type and give advise which build can or cannot use it, i'm sure most of the people on this forum will help you with your guide then

 

You can mark from A - D for example amount of builds which can use this weapon

I was just typing a similar suggestion. I would rate how the weapons are useful to the various roles, striker, controller, tank, and support.

 

Try it like this:

 

Gladiator Sword

Striker *

Tank ****

Controller **

Support **

This is an early game sword found during the main quest on the starter island. While not the best, in terms of damage, this weapon is great for your tank when you find it. Make sure to buy the sharpening upgrade as soon as you find this. You will probably have the ingreadients, and the extra pen will help your tank contribute some damage. This can be given to anyone who may want a few extra deflection, but its use is fairly limited to early game. Strikers will have much better options, so they should give this to a companion.

[Ansalon]

 

I'm already wrote this in your armor post, but just group weapon by their type and give advise which build can or cannot use it, i'm sure most of the people on this forum will help you with your guide then

 

You can mark from A - D for example amount of builds which can use this weapon

I was just typing a similar suggestion. I would rate how the weapons are useful to the various roles, striker, controller, tank, and support.

 

Try it like this:

 

Gladiator Sword

Striker *

Tank ****

Controller **

Support **

This is an early game sword found during the main quest on the starter island. While not the best, in terms of damage, this weapon is great for your tank when you find it. Make sure to buy the sharpening upgrade as soon as you find this. You will probably have the ingreadients, and the extra pen will help your tank contribute some damage. This can be given to anyone who may want a few extra deflection, but its use is fairly limited to early game. Strikers will have much better options, so they should give this to a companion.

 

I will keep this in mind for when i make a weapons progression guide. Your idea seems more appropriate for that then for a guide that is discussing a weapon based on it's endgame enchantments.

[Ansalon]

 

You said among other things; "As with the other two lists: no point when having no in-game experience with them or reading about in-game experience." and "Because judging weapons based on their description alone doesn't work well." How is this not claiming I did 0 tests?

 

In a lot of ways: Interpret it as I meant it: "no point [making a tier list] when having no in-game experience with [several of] them" and "because judging weapons based on their description alone [and putting them into a tier list with others you did test] doesn't work well".

 

Don't read something mean(er) into my sentences than there is.

 

I never said you did zero tests nor that you have no in-game experience at all. I said a tier list is pointless because you put items in there that you have tested and ones that you haven't. The "no in-game experience" and "description alone" was aimed at those items, not all of your posts.

 

If you can't concede the point that you have made multiple overtly hostile and misleading claims about my post then I'm not sure we can come to an understanding. If it happened once or twice it could just be me misinterpreting but it has happened on so many occasions. You have repeated the same statements multiple times aswell, and when I call you out on it you backpedal. If you have any suggestions about placing an item in a different tier I will take your opinion into account, but at this point I feel like I have spent enough time and energy arguing with you on matters that are pretty pointless.

[Ansalon]

 

 

 

I haven't tested them all

Then the list is of little relevance, right?

 

Because judging weapons based on their description alone doesn't work well.

 

Take Scordeos Edge: you can't know that its bonuses work for all weapons you use unless you used it. You'd have to test it to find out.

 

Also that Grave Calling and Hel Beckoning can be used to summon imps that don't count towards the summon limit and let you create a huge imp army (if you pair it with the right classes) can only be experienced by testing (or reading people's posts about testing).

 

Another example (not one-handed though): the Espirs estoc will proc Ghost Blades on kill. That's the description. Sounds rather lame because Ghost Blades only have 8-11 base damage. What the description doesn't say and what you can only find out via testing is that those Ghost Blades profit from the enchantments of the blade, from all passive abilities that work with the blade (e.g. Sneak Attach, Two Handed Style etc.). And that not only kills with the Blade trigger those "empowered" Ghost Blades but all kills as long as you hold the weapon. This includes the Ghost Blades themselves which can therefore proc themselves. So, the difference between description and actual behavior is huge.

 

There are so many behaviors that only get revealed once you use an item - a tier list (partially) based on item description is rather pointless in my opinion.

You are taking the statement "I haven't tested them all" and turn it into "I have done 0 tests" which is a strawman argument and very disingenuous.

He's taken your statement and applied it to the weapons that you think are ****. How do I know that? Your very description and ranking of Grave Calling and Hel Beckoning indicates that you think very poorly of them, however testing indicates that they are quite powerful.

 

He didn't make a strawman argument, maybe you should learn what one is before you start throwing it around.

 

A strawman is when someone is trying to make it seem like they refuted someones argument, by misrepresenting their argument and then providing evidence against the misrepresented version. He has done that multiple times on several occasions.

[thundercleese]

If you have any suggestions about placing an item in a different tier I will take your opinion into account

You keep saying this, yet despite many suggestions and feedback there have been no changes made?

[Clerith]

 

If you have any suggestions about placing an item in a different tier I will take your opinion into account

You keep saying this, yet despite many suggestions and feedback there have been no changes made?

 

From what I see, no changes were made based on reddit "feedback" either.

 

The OP is also known for advertising his stream and other social media and donation link on reddit. It's not pure spam - he does have lists, some guides and high difficulty streams. So I think he's genuine. I think he's put some hours in. But in my personal opinion, everything seems just a little off, and the media follow spam gets a little annoying. I think he puts mediocre effort into creating content to try to get some views and money.

[Ansalon]

 

If you have any suggestions about placing an item in a different tier I will take your opinion into account

You keep saying this, yet despite many suggestions and feedback there have been no changes made?

 

Its because I have spent effort on arguing pointless **** like this instead of actually making edits to the guide.

[Ansalon]

 

 

If you have any suggestions about placing an item in a different tier I will take your opinion into account

You keep saying this, yet despite many suggestions and feedback there have been no changes made?

 

From what I see, no changes were made based on reddit "feedback" either.

 

The OP is also known for advertising his stream and other social media and donation link on reddit. It's not pure spam - he does have lists, some guides and high difficulty streams. So I think he's genuine. I think he's put some hours in. But in my personal opinion, everything seems just a little off, and the media follow spam gets a little annoying. I think he puts mediocre effort into creating content to try to get some views and money.

 

Then you didn't look hard enough. Sometimes I made changes on feedback, the other times i argued against it and was unconvinced. One of my hopes of posting on this forum was to get more feedback to improve the list. If you think my content is mediocre that's fine. I have only been doing this about a month and I'm still looking to improve. I'm not ashamed to admit that I was hoping putting out content would lead to increased viewers. But that is not the sole reason I made the guides. It was mainly for my own enjoyment as a hobby. I do believe my content has value, even if there are several improvements to be made.

[Ansalon]

 

I haven't tested them all

Then the list is of little relevance, right?

 

Because judging weapons based on their description alone doesn't work well.

 

Take Scordeos Edge: you can't know that its bonuses work for all weapons you use unless you used it. You'd have to test it to find out.

 

Also that Grave Calling and Hel Beckoning can be used to summon imps that don't count towards the summon limit and let you create a huge imp army (if you pair it with the right classes) can only be experienced by testing (or reading people's posts about testing).

 

Another example (not one-handed though): the Espirs estoc will proc Ghost Blades on kill. That's the description. Sounds rather lame because Ghost Blades only have 8-11 base damage. What the description doesn't say and what you can only find out via testing is that those Ghost Blades profit from the enchantments of the blade, from all passive abilities that work with the blade (e.g. Sneak Attach, Two Handed Style etc.). And that not only kills with the Blade trigger those "empowered" Ghost Blades but all kills as long as you hold the weapon. This includes the Ghost Blades themselves which can therefore proc themselves. So, the difference between description and actual behavior is huge.

 

There are so many behaviors that only get revealed once you use an item - a tier list (partially) based on item description is rather pointless in my opinion.

 

Hel Beckoning and Grave calling only summon when killing spirits/Vessels no? So as in the preface to my guide, items like these will be very powerful in those rare circumstances but terrible in others.

[Ansalon]

Scordeo's Edge is the sabre with the stacking accuracy buff - Scordeo's Trophy is the pistol with the stacking recovery buff. Scordeo's Edge is very easy to stack the accuracy, which makes it synergize very well with on crit effects (like Rust's as I mentioned). Abilities that hit multiple times/multiple foes at once will grant one stack per hit, which makes it devastating in the hands of a monk with Swift Flurry/Heartbeat Drumming (again, as I already stated). Even if you don't use a crit weapon, more accuracy = more hits and crits = more dps. It applies to both weapons if you DW too.

 

The problem we have is that you are rating some very powerful weapons very lowly, because you obviously haven't tested them sufficiently. Easy fix is to remove anything you haven't properly tested from all the lists.

Wasn't aware that aoe abilities gave you muiltiple stacks with these weapons. My testing was done with single target damage. Updated the list.

[Manveru123]

 

 

I haven't tested them all

Then the list is of little relevance, right?

 

Because judging weapons based on their description alone doesn't work well.

 

Take Scordeos Edge: you can't know that its bonuses work for all weapons you use unless you used it. You'd have to test it to find out.

 

Also that Grave Calling and Hel Beckoning can be used to summon imps that don't count towards the summon limit and let you create a huge imp army (if you pair it with the right classes) can only be experienced by testing (or reading people's posts about testing).

 

Another example (not one-handed though): the Espirs estoc will proc Ghost Blades on kill. That's the description. Sounds rather lame because Ghost Blades only have 8-11 base damage. What the description doesn't say and what you can only find out via testing is that those Ghost Blades profit from the enchantments of the blade, from all passive abilities that work with the blade (e.g. Sneak Attach, Two Handed Style etc.). And that not only kills with the Blade trigger those "empowered" Ghost Blades but all kills as long as you hold the weapon. This includes the Ghost Blades themselves which can therefore proc themselves. So, the difference between description and actual behavior is huge.

 

There are so many behaviors that only get revealed once you use an item - a tier list (partially) based on item description is rather pointless in my opinion.

 

Hel Beckoning and Grave calling only summon when killing spirits/Vessels no? So as in the preface to my guide, items like these will be very powerful in those rare circumstances but terrible in others.

 

If only there was a class that could summon an unlimited number of spirits and vessels.

[Ansalon]

 

 

 

To say, “you never used it” so your list is meaningless is simply absurd, borderline obstinate. 

Hi, this is my list of the tastiest food in the world. I never even tried any of those, but that doesn't mean the list is useless!

 

Hi this is my list of the tastiest pizzas in the world. I haven't tried every pizza topping combination imaginable, but I have tried enough toppings in different combinations to make a pretty educated guess on how each individual pizza will taste if you put these toppings together. I certainly didnt like putting ice cream on my pizza! Maybe some people in very rare circumstances will like it, but for the most part I think most people won't!.

 

Your "educated guess" put in Tier D a weapon that casts a foe-only Chill Fog on kill and summons a monster on each kill (that ignores summon limits). And yet in tier S you put a weapon that is inferior to every other Sabre in like 80% of the encounters. I'm sorry but it is really difficult to take you seriously. 

 

Please remind me to never try your pizza recommendations.

 

This only works vs Vessels making it only useful in rare occassions.

[Ansalon]

 

 

 

I haven't tested them all

Then the list is of little relevance, right?

 

Because judging weapons based on their description alone doesn't work well.

 

Take Scordeos Edge: you can't know that its bonuses work for all weapons you use unless you used it. You'd have to test it to find out.

 

Also that Grave Calling and Hel Beckoning can be used to summon imps that don't count towards the summon limit and let you create a huge imp army (if you pair it with the right classes) can only be experienced by testing (or reading people's posts about testing).

 

Another example (not one-handed though): the Espirs estoc will proc Ghost Blades on kill. That's the description. Sounds rather lame because Ghost Blades only have 8-11 base damage. What the description doesn't say and what you can only find out via testing is that those Ghost Blades profit from the enchantments of the blade, from all passive abilities that work with the blade (e.g. Sneak Attach, Two Handed Style etc.). And that not only kills with the Blade trigger those "empowered" Ghost Blades but all kills as long as you hold the weapon. This includes the Ghost Blades themselves which can therefore proc themselves. So, the difference between description and actual behavior is huge.

 

There are so many behaviors that only get revealed once you use an item - a tier list (partially) based on item description is rather pointless in my opinion.

 

Hel Beckoning and Grave calling only summon when killing spirits/Vessels no? So as in the preface to my guide, items like these will be very powerful in those rare circumstances but terrible in others.

 

If only there was a class that could summon an unlimited number of spirits and vessels.

 

I'm guessing there is some chanter synergy I'm not aware of. Please enlighten me. A link to a discussion would be very helpful.

[mant2si]

If only there was a class that could summon an unlimited number of spirits and vessels.

That will be cool, then we would be able to create an army of imps and capture the Deadfire archipelago

Edited August 13, 2018 by mant2si

[VXer]

This list is based on my personal opinion and I haven't tested them all. Quite possible I haven't taken into account all possible synergies so some might be undervalued. A lot of them will be weaker if they are used with a class that doesn't synergize with their effects. All values are ingame values. The wiki is outdated since the 1.2 nerfs. Some of the lower rated weapons can be exceptionally strong in very rare scenarios (for instance vs spirits) but I am mostly rating them for their general usefulness.

 

To clarify, Weapons are listed randomly within any Tier. Might change that at some point but it will require some work. I am also comparing weapons at max enchants. I haven't taken into account that some weapons will be very useful early on in the game if they start out with high weapon quality, forgoing the need to upgrade them. I will update this list with Beast of Winter Weapons when I have the time.

 

</snip>

 

Gotta ask why specialized item choices are in a list you're rating for general usefulness? Pukestabber is a strong weapon in a niche build, utilizing certain consumables in combination with another item choice.

 

The only weapon I can actually agree with it's place is Mātakau, but that's because it starts at -5% Damage and only gains +1 Pen vs Vessels after dumping 3,000g into it which is utterly terrible.

 

I completely disagree with the rating for Gladiator Sword, especially if this is geared towards beginners or for a hardcore gamer looking to complete the game and obtain most items to do a proper theory-craft instead of relying on opinion that's marred with untested ratings. 

It still has Skrim, providing a +15% Damage increase when wielding a shield, it's not soulbound and it's not tied to certain class mechanics. If you don't use a Shield, it's still better than a Fine Sabre.

 

It's an everyman's sword (Especially when upgraded with Sharpened Blade) Early game this thing's like an A-tier for generic melee builds. It drops off as you gain access to better gear, but that's the entire purpose of the Gladiator Sword. It's your transitional one-hander as you progress through the game. 

 

You also include Animancer's Energy Blade, which generally by the time you get it you've got other overall more useful selections available.

 

As far as I can tell, this is marked as an "S" tier weapon, yet it's described as a backup weapon for situational encounters (C or D examples). Wasn't this list supposed to be a general "usefulness" list? The entire point of an "S" tier "general usefulness" weapon would be it's capability of excelling in most scenarios without the need to rely on other conditions/tactical decisions to come into play.

 

Because it's a Slashing Weapon that deals Raw Damage instead, it's a "S"ubjective Tier weapon, which isn't that good. Just pull out a different damage type weapon that's probably packing some better rider effects per hit, especially since Weapon Modal is "useless" with the Animancer's Energy Blade so there's nothing tying you down to the Sabre weapon type here.

 

In fact, optimization to cover multiple damage types at once would generally put a weapon above others due to covering a wider variety of resistances.

 

Based on how you're selling this tier list, Swords of equal quality to a Sabre would be higher tier, unless the Sabre holds a rider effect on hit that supersedes the dual-damage type nature of the blade since it's supposed to be for general usefulness.

 

But it's not.

 

You refer to combat mechanics favoring slower attack weapons as a reason for why Rust's Poignard is not S tier, but then list alot of faster-than-normal weapons with action speed increases as part of their abilities in S tier. That in itself is conflicting to why items are, or not are S tier and your bias in favor of low recovery/action speed shows throughout the write-up. 

 

The way grading in this fashion works on the following principle, which you haven't followed if you're making this a generalist tier list for the category defined (one handed melee, in this example). 

S - Best

A - Good

B - Above Average

C - Average

D - Mediocre

E - Bad

 

From everything I've seen out of your tier list, it's in support of a single build style - low recovery, DPS build, graded based on your personal opinion on what's good and what isn't. You've stated yourself some items haven't been tested so it's difficult to really take it seriously or view it as more than an inflated opinion piece to boost views on your media platforms. 

 

​Other people have stated it and I'm going to echo the opinion - Tier lists on these types of games are better focused on the role you are filling and how an item could fulfill that role. There's also the issue of early > mid > late game items where some builds will sit on a defensive start and transition into a more offensive design once the items and power level upgrades start to come online.

 

[Ansalon]

 

This list is based on my personal opinion and I haven't tested them all. Quite possible I haven't taken into account all possible synergies so some might be undervalued. A lot of them will be weaker if they are used with a class that doesn't synergize with their effects. All values are ingame values. The wiki is outdated since the 1.2 nerfs. Some of the lower rated weapons can be exceptionally strong in very rare scenarios (for instance vs spirits) but I am mostly rating them for their general usefulness.

 

To clarify, Weapons are listed randomly within any Tier. Might change that at some point but it will require some work. I am also comparing weapons at max enchants. I haven't taken into account that some weapons will be very useful early on in the game if they start out with high weapon quality, forgoing the need to upgrade them. I will update this list with Beast of Winter Weapons when I have the time.

 

</snip>

 

Gotta ask why specialized item choices are in a list you're rating for general usefulness? Pukestabber is a strong weapon in a niche build, utilizing certain consumables in combination with another item choice.

 

The only weapon I can actually agree with it's place is Mātakau, but that's because it starts at -5% Damage and only gains +1 Pen vs Vessels after dumping 3,000g into it which is utterly terrible.

 

I completely disagree with the rating for Gladiator Sword, especially if this is geared towards beginners or for a hardcore gamer looking to complete the game and obtain most items to do a proper theory-craft instead of relying on opinion that's marred with untested ratings. 

It still has Skrim, providing a +15% Damage increase when wielding a shield, it's not soulbound and it's not tied to certain class mechanics. If you don't use a Shield, it's still better than a Fine Sabre.

 

It's an everyman's sword (Especially when upgraded with Sharpened Blade) Early game this thing's like an A-tier for generic melee builds. It drops off as you gain access to better gear, but that's the entire purpose of the Gladiator Sword. It's your transitional one-hander as you progress through the game. 

 

You also include Animancer's Energy Blade, which generally by the time you get it you've got other overall more useful selections available.

 

As far as I can tell, this is marked as an "S" tier weapon, yet it's described as a backup weapon for situational encounters (C or D examples). Wasn't this list supposed to be a general "usefulness" list? The entire point of an "S" tier "general usefulness" weapon would be it's capability of excelling in most scenarios without the need to rely on other conditions/tactical decisions to come into play.

 

Because it's a Slashing Weapon that deals Raw Damage instead, it's a "S"ubjective Tier weapon, which isn't that good. Just pull out a different damage type weapon that's probably packing some better rider effects per hit, especially since Weapon Modal is "useless" with the Animancer's Energy Blade so there's nothing tying you down to the Sabre weapon type here.

 

In fact, optimization to cover multiple damage types at once would generally put a weapon above others due to covering a wider variety of resistances.

 

Based on how you're selling this tier list, Swords of equal quality to a Sabre would be higher tier, unless the Sabre holds a rider effect on hit that supersedes the dual-damage type nature of the blade since it's supposed to be for general usefulness.

 

But it's not.

 

You refer to combat mechanics favoring slower attack weapons as a reason for why Rust's Poignard is not S tier, but then list alot of faster-than-normal weapons with action speed increases as part of their abilities in S tier. That in itself is conflicting to why items are, or not are S tier and your bias in favor of low recovery/action speed shows throughout the write-up. 

 

The way grading in this fashion works on the following principle, which you haven't followed if you're making this a generalist tier list for the category defined (one handed melee, in this example). 

S - Best

A - Good

B - Above Average

C - Average

D - Mediocre

E - Bad

 

From everything I've seen out of your tier list, it's in support of a single build style - low recovery, DPS build, graded based on your personal opinion on what's good and what isn't. You've stated yourself some items haven't been tested so it's difficult to really take it seriously or view it as more than an inflated opinion piece to boost views on your media platforms. 

 

​Other people have stated it and I'm going to echo the opinion - Tier lists on these types of games are better focused on the role you are filling and how an item could fulfill that role. There's also the issue of early > mid > late game items where some builds will sit on a defensive start and transition into a more offensive design once the items and power level upgrades start to come online.

 

I agree with your assessment that Gladiator Sword is great early game, but this list is ordering it by max enchants usefulness. I will definitely rate this weapon higher when I make a weapons progression guide. I agree that putting Animancer's Energy Blade highly and weapon vs spirits/vessels low, considering they are both conditionally useful, is abit inconsistent. However I have made notes reflecting on why I decided to put them in their respective place, and I'm giving the reader the benefit of the doubt that they will take that into consideration. I have even given a rough estimation of  what Tier Animancer's should be in, depending on your penetration status.  Rust's Poignard is in my opinion borderline on the edge between tier S and Tier A. That was the reasoning I put forth, to put into context why I didn't rate it higher. I'm happy to discuss if this weapon deserves Tier S.

Like i've stated multiple times, this guide is not supposed to exist in a vacuum.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Ansalon

[Boeroer]

@Ansalon: with Grave Calling and Hel Beckoning a Chanter can kill his own summons and turn them into imps. A great multiclass combo for this is a Beckoner/Berserker because his Carnage kills his very weak skeletons with the blade which will then spawn two big skeletons and one imp. If you kill those two as well you will have three imps. Since you are starting with 6 skeletons you can get 18 imps very quickly and as a bonus trigger Bloodlust and Blood Thirst.

 

Also works with the skeleton you can summon with each phrase with the high lvl summoning chant.

 

Same with Hel Beckoning and puny phantoms - but obviously the Grave Calling/Skeleton thing is better because you simply summon more skeletons than phantoms.

 

Killing enemy vessels is just a nice bonus then.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Boeroer

[Ansalon]

@Ansalon: with Grave Calling and Hel Beckoning a Chanter can kill his own summons and turn them into imps. A great multiclass combo for this is a Beckoner/Berserker because his Carnage kills his very weak skeletons with the blade which will then spawn two big skeletons and one imp. If you kill those two as well you will have three imps. Since you are starting with 6 skeletons you can get 18 imps very quickly and as a bonus trigger Bloodlust and Blood Thirst.

 

Also works with the skeleton you can summon with each phrase with the high lvl summoning chant.

 

Same with Hel Beckoning and puny phantoms - but obviously the Grave Calling/Skeleton thing is better because you simply summon more skeletons than phantoms.

 

Killing enemy vessels is just a nice bonus then.

Thank you I will look into it when I have the time. Gonna be busy the next few days though.

[Boeroer]

It can be very useful but is also a bit of a hassle. I can't say if it's worth the trouble in he long run - that may differ from player to player. It's hilarious and fun - but nothing I personally would do a whole playthrough with.

[thundercleese]

Here's a build based on that strategy. I also probably wouldn't make it through a whole playthrough with it, but it IS fun spawning your imp army.

 

Also, they are both currently bugged and will summon from anything (including inanimate objects) if killed by DoT damage or carnage damage. I don't think this should affect your ranking, but it is fun to get double the imps.