Ansalons One Handed Melee Weapon Tier List

[Ansalon]

This list is based on my personal opinion and I haven't tested them all. Quite possible I haven't taken into account all possible synergies so some might be undervalued. A lot of them will be weaker if they are used with a class that doesn't synergize with their effects. All values are ingame values. The wiki is outdated since the 1.2 nerfs. Some of the lower rated weapons can be exceptionally strong in very rare scenarios (for instance vs spirits) but I am mostly rating them for their general usefulness.

 

To clarify, Weapons are listed randomly within any Tier. Might change that at some point but it will require some work. I am also comparing weapons at max enchants. I haven't taken into account that some weapons will be very useful early on in the game if they start out with high weapon quality, forgoing the need to upgrade them. I will update this list with Beast of Winter Weapons when I have the time.

 

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S - Tier: Best in Slot. Usually has very good build/class synergies

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  Pukestabber (Dagger) - 20% action speed and 20% dmg with dagger attacks while Drunk. Combined with the ring Drunkard's Regret which makes you immune to hangover this is an exceptionally strong
  
  
  
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  dagger. (see u/teesinz Mirke guide) Does start to lose out a lot of bonuses when your party has access to "Incredible Food" over Alcohol. If you want tankiness over damage its possible to grab the Numb enchant (-10% melee dmg recvieced) and combine it with Arrack (-15% dmg recieved).
  
  
  
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  Magran's Favor (Battle Axe) - 2 All Fire Power Levels and can get either heal or dmg on melee kills/attacks. Exceptionally strong as a stat stick for an Evocation Wizard or Priest of Magran. Can also make some melee builds around it with for instance Paladins (Flames of Devotion)
  
  
  
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  Kapana Taga (Club) Deals best of Crush or Slash dmg. +1 Engagement slot and Melee dmg/Accuracy for each Engaged Target. Pretty bonkers in combination with Reckless Brigandine for a tank.
  
  
  
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  Rannig's Wrath (Rapier) - 10% action speed, +4 melee accuracy. 10% dmg vs Flanked. +1 Penetration for 5 sec on crit. The other optional enchants are also extremly good but more situational. +20 accuracy weapon modal. Only downside is single damage type.
  
  
  
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  Sasha's Singing Scimitar (Sabre) 2% stacking action speed Aura for each held chanter phrase. Empowering an Invocation fills Chanter's Phrase Count to Max. Exceptionally strong on a Devoted/Skald or melee Troubadour.
  
  
  
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  Stalker's Patience (Spear) - +10% Damage to Flanked targets (increases with Stealth skill), Hits with this weapon cause 15% Damage as Raw Damage over time. 20% chance to recover immediately on Crit. Still an exceptionally strong wep after 1.2 nerfs.
  
  
  
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  Modwyr (Sword) 20% damage dealt as burn when above 50% health and and +20% damage dealt as freeze when below 50% health. 2% action speed on hit (stacks 10 times) Immunity to Intellect Afflictions. Bottom's Up 1/encounter: Primary Attack. Stun, +25% dmg dealt as Crush/Shock. Can be upgraded to Legendary after beeing released from previous owner.
  
  
  
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  Animancer's Energy Blade (Sabre) - Deals Raw Damage and attacks more quickly than a standard blade. Deals less damage then other sabres but raw damage doesn't get mitigated by armor. Weapon modal is useless. Did some very rough math. Against targets that has normal penetration The dps should be a tiny bit lower then a standard legendary sabre. Since it deals Raw damage it Will be God - Tier against targets who would normally be severely under penned (-75%), easily S - Tier against moderatly underpenned (-50%), A - Tier against Slight under pen (-25%), E - Tier against Normal penetration. (Gets outperformed by a non unique legendary saber), and obviously even worse against overpen (+30%). Keep it as a backup weapon for moderate/severe underpen situations.
  
  
  
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  Xoti's Sickle (Hatchet) 5% dmg when scoring kill (stacks 4 times), 15% action speed for 10 sec when near slain enemy. Both effects scales with Religion. Pre 1.2 Nerfs you could probably have made a build around it but now investion max in religion is just enough to make it a viable weapon not OP. Did some testing and at 20 religion each kill increases the damage by roughtly 15% and the action speed after killing a target is 25%. Plus I didnt notice it had dual damage types. Incredible on any class that scores kills easily like Rogue with finishing blow or Barbarians with bloody slaughter. Obviously very weak if there are very few mobs in the encounter.
  
  
  

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A - Tier: Very Strong but usually lacks the little extra to bring it to S-tier

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  Lovers Embrace (Dagger)- 8 Raw dmg per 6 sec on stealth attacks plus 33% chance to get Frenzy when critting a male target (or female but im guessing there are fewer females in the game) Really strong on a single class rogue that can access a lot of the lategame stealth abilities. Move up a tier if used with Pukestabber. Not very good if you have easy access to tier 1 Might/Con Inspiration.
  
  
  
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  Sun and Moon (Flail) - +2 Fire Power level during day +2 Frost Power during Night. Would be a S - Tier stat stick if the buffs applied for the entire day. If you can bother to rest so you only fight during the day it is an S-tier stat stick on Evocation Wizard. Golden Sun (Eothas) enchant 25% Burn damage from weapon returns Health. Haven't checked but if it applies from the Burn damage from for instance Flames of Devotion then it's S-tier.
  
  
  
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  Aldris Blade of Capain Crow (Sabre). 10% hit to crit. +10 shock damage on crit. +8 health on crit. 15% dmg as shock. +2 Pen weapon modal. Decent defensive option for crit based dps frontliner
  
  
  
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  Kahua Hozi (Spear) - Best of Pierce/Slash damage. 10% action speed. 15% damage. +25 defense against disengagement attacks. +1 engage weapon modal. Dual damage types make this a very strong alternative for a dps frontline.
  
  
  
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  Rust's Poignard (Stiletto) - Bring Low: 30% chance to knock target prone and lower defense by -10 for 6 sec on crit. 35% dmg to targets affected by Bring Low. 3 Raw dmg per 3s for 9s on hit vs flanked. 3% action speed against flanked on hit (stacks 5 times). +2 pen weapon modal. Single damage type and combat mechanics favoring slower weapons keeps it out of S-tier. Probably Low Tier A/High Tier B.
  
  
  
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  Griffin's Blade (Sword) Steadfast AoE when wearer is bloodied. 50% chance to Daze target and nearby enemies on crit. +10% dmg with Spells, +5 Will makes it a very competitive stat stick for a dps caster. Alternatively go for 10% action speed, +5 Reflex if going melee.
  
  
  
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  Watcher's Blade (Sword) . 15% dmg as Raw. Due to how lash and Raw mechanics work this is extremly effective against a heavy armor target that you are under penetrating. Weaker against targets you overpenetrate, so have other weapons to swap to when needed.
  
  
  
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  St. Drogga's Skull (Sabre) - 20% damage as burn. 20% chance to do AoE burn damage. Not exactly sure how the damage is rolled for the AoE burn proc but after some testing it seems rather strong. This weapon might be S - Tier depending on how that proc is calculated but it is A - Tier at the very least.
  
  
  
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  Scordeo's Edge (Sabre) - Bit hesitant to rate this because I don't know how good the melee/range Scordeo's Edge/trophy swapping synergy would play out. You can enchant it in to pure melee weapon making it C-tier. Possibly better when going One-handed style but doubt it. - 5% chance to ignore recovery for 5 sec on hit. Buff duration does scale with int but procc is too RNG to be consistent (statistically its 1/20 attacks). +2 Accuracy with all weapons for 30s on scoring Hit (stacks 10 times). Apparently you can get multiple stacks if used in combination with AoE effects, making it a lot easier to stack then my initial assessment.
  
  
  
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  Squid's Grasp (Rapier) Cannot be Flanked. +20% Action Speed when threatened by 3 or more enemies. If defeated within 10 seconds of using Squid's Escape, revive and become Invisible. +20 Accuracy Weapon modal. Decent defensive option for dps frontliner. Very useful in solo play, bit less useful in party play.
  
  
  
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  Acolyte's Frostbite (Hatchet) Concentration + AoE frost cone when crit when no allies around. 10% chance to paralyze on crit. 15% dmg as Freeze. Depending on how near the allies have to be for the buff to proc you might have to use it on sole frontliner making it very unflexible. Very useful for solo play. Less useful for party play.
  
  
  
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  Glacierbane (War Hammer) Serrated: +10% Damage as Raw. +1 Pen after taking Freeze dmg (3 stacks). Quite useful during BoW content since the mobs have a lot of freeze damage, but not that useful outside of it. You can gain the stacks from friendly fire, which means you could potentially proc it yourself. It starts at Superb so you could potentially just pick up the Penetration enchant, use it for BoW content and forgo upgrading it to legendary.
  
  
  
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  Frostfall (Mace, stat stick) - Forged in Ice: Deals best of Crush/Freeze. Blessed by the void: 25% chance to apply Tier 1 Affliction to a nearby target when hit by an affliction. Encroaching Frost: Critical Hits have a 10% chance to freeze the enemy for 4s. Dispersed Suffering: On kill, the duration of Hostile Status Effects on nearby enemies are increased by 20%. Weapon is discussed in this thread. This weapon is really hard to rate. Both Encroaching Frost and Dispersed suffering proccs on spells, making it a potentially powerful stat stick. Atm it seems to be bugged and Status effects are increased by 50% instead of 20% (Patch 2.0). Best used on a spellcaster with a party that applies a lot of status effects on the enemies. Needs more testing after it is bug fixed to determine its true value.
  
  
  

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B - Tier: Mostly good proccs or good stats. Not enough build/class synergy to bring it higher.

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  Marux Amanth (Dagger) - 10% Chance to deal Burn AoE on Hit, Quick to Slaughter +2 Penetration for a duration per combat at the start of the encounter, Grants Worthy Sacrifice. I haven't tested it myself but soulbound not beeing upgraded to legendary hurts a lot. Move up a tier if used with Pukestabber.
  
  
  
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  Endre's Flog of Obedience (Flail) - 10% chance to apply Frightened on hit, +2 Pen against Mind affliction targets. Decent on a melee Cipher to lower Will.
  
  
  
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  Sungrazer (Flail) - 10% chance to recover instantly on Hit, 2 sec Stun on hit, 25% dmg as burn and -1 Crush Armor Rating on Critical Hit. Decent for a Crit oriented build.
  
  
  
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  Bardatto's Luxury (Mace) - 10% chance to Sicken target for 10 sec on hit, 10% chance Fit for 10 sec on self on scoring hit. Immunity to Con afflictions when above 50%. -1 armor for 10 sec weapon modal- Fairly decent for a tank
  
  
  
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  Beza's Toothed Blade (Sabre) - 2 Armour Rating for 30s on Critical Hit. Can help setup overpen for your entire party
  
  
  
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  Min's Fortune (Sabre) Stacking +2% Crit chance on Hit (stacks 50 times and resets on Crit). +15% crit dmg. Fairly good on a high crit build. Single damage type keeps it from beeing A-tier on Devoted.
  
  
  
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  Tarn's Respite (Sabre) +1 Penetration, +15% Damage as Freeze, -1 target Deflection for 60 sec on Hit (stacks 10 times). Takes too long to stack deflection debuff for it to be rated higher.
  
  
  
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  Mohora Tanga (Spear) - +1 Pen, 5% melee dmg (increases with Survival Skill) 5 raw bleed per 3s for 9s on crit, plus decent 1/rest active. Was very strong pre 1.2 now just decent.
  
  
  
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  Duskfall (Sword) - +1 pen when attacking same target as ally, 10% action speed, 10% crit dmg or 25% misses to grazes (high acc favors crit, low acc miss to graze). 15 acc, 10% dmg to first attack made in combat. Decent weapon for Soul Blades to try to get a crit so they can dump focus into Soul Annilation, or for Assassin's to increase their burst from stealth.
  
  
  
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  Last Word - (Warhammer) +1 Enemies Engaged. 5% weapon dmg per engaged enemy. Target cannot use active abilities for 3 sec on crit. Good Synergy with Reckless Brigandine
  
  
  

C - Tier: Decent Weapons. Usually Suboptimal stat/procs or poor synergy

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  Shattered Vengeance (Club) 33% chance to apply a stacking curse on the target, increasing their damage received by 5%. Assuming it stacks forever It's probably decent in boss fights but for the most part pretty meh.
  
  
  
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  Ball and Chain (Flail) Knockdown target on crit, 10% chance to recover immediately when crit and free self/allies from dex/ might affliction (once per encounter) Decent 1h for tanks just much better alternatives.
  
  
  
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  Skullcrusher (Flail) 10% chance to Daze for 10 sec and Prone on Hit. Empowered abilities apply Injury on target. Decent on tanks. Assuming the Injury applies on bosses it can be very powerful in those instances.
  
  
  
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  Gladiator Sword (Sword) - 10% melee dmg, +5 deflection when worn with a shield. +1 Pen. Ok for a 1h/shield tank but rather have increased defenses since tanks doesn't really deal much damage anyways. Good on certain 1h& shield dps builds like my Barbarian/Hellwalker.
  
  
  
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  Resounding Call (Warhammer) - 50% chance to cast random mind affliction for 8 sec on crit. Bell Ringer 2/rest (upgraded version of Rogue Strike the bell) Mind affliction can be Rank 1-3 so its a pretty decent debuff. If resting between every fight this can be considered atleast A-tier at low levels when you dont have many Ability Uses since Bell Ringer is a fairly strong active ability.
  
  
  

D - Tier: Too Conditional (only good against specific enemy types) Can be A-tier against that specific type though.

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  Magistrate's Cudgel (Mace) - 3 sec stun on crit. Random Tier 1 inspiration when afflicted. Low lvl Kith instakilled on crits. Pretty useless if played on upscaling bump up a tier otherwise. Soulbound not getting legendary makes this fairly bad.
  
  
  
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  Grave Calling (Sabre) - +2% Freeze damage for 60.0 sec on Hit (stacks 15 times). Takes way too long to stack up to be very useful. 15 accuracy against Vessles makes it good vs them. There is also some strong chanter synergy where you can summon creatures and kill them off with the weapons alternative enchant, to create infinite adds. Example build here.
  
  
  
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  Azure Blade (Stiletto) - +15 Accuracy when 3 or more allies are within 2 m. Very unreliable and have to build a frontline heavy team just to make it work
  
  
  
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  Hel Beckoning (Sword) - Stacking corrode dot and accuracy vs Spirits. Veil Piercing means it's extremly strong vs spirits. There is also some strong chanter synergy where you can summon creatures and kill them off with the weapons alternative enchant, to create infinite adds. Example build here.
  
  
  
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  Whispers of Yenwood (Sword) - 25% miss to graze, 10% hit to crit. +20% Damage against Spirits, +15 Accuracy against Spirits. Very strong vs spirits Not very good otherwise.
  
  
  

E - Tier: Just no. Pretty Sure Matakau/St. Drogga's Skull aren't real uniques since they are preorder bonuses.

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  Matakau (Battle Axe) +1 Penetration against Vessel targets. Not even that great against Vessels.
  
  
  
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  Vion-ceth (Hatchet) +20% Melee Damage to Plant targets and targets with Plant status effect. C-tier in combination with a Druid/Ranger to set it up for you. Useless without.
  
  
  

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Edit:

Moved Scordeo's Edge into Tier A. Wasn't aware that AoE abilities could give multiple stacks.

Moved Squid's Grasp and Acolyte's Frostbite into Tier A to reflect that they are stronger for solo play then party play.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Ansalon

[thundercleese]

Scordeo's Edge is one of the best one-handed weapons in the game, as is Rust's Poignard - especially when combined. Scordeo's can stack above its cap currently, and while this is obviously a bug and will be fixed, you can get over 100 bonus accuracy if you build around it, and it applies to both weapons. Even after the inevitable nerf/fix +20 accuracy is no joke. Attacks that hit multiple times provide multiple stacks (it is particularly devastating on a Monk with Swift Flurry and Heartbeat Drumming). Rust's Poignard attack speed vs flanked also applies to both weapons, and when combined with Scordeo's you can prone lock most bosses quite easily (Bring Low has a 7 second duration). It is hilariously powerful when you get a Blade Cascade proc. The fact that it's a small weapon makes it an ideal off hand weapon for using full attacks.

 

The lightsaber is too situational to be considered top tier imo, severely outclassed by Scordeo's Edge.

[Clerith]

You already posted these on reddit a few weeks ago, right?

 

Like already said, Rust's Poignard is S-tier offhand, and Scordeio is still S-tier, especially if you use a Priest to extend the buff when it procs. It becomes EX tier at that point. Squid's Grasp is also an excellent offhand, at least A tier imo. Grave Calling is also actually decent, and I use it as a secondary sabre on some builds that can stack attacks fast. I'd bump it up a tier at least. You can exploit the stacking lash.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Clerith

[Malkoy]

Maybe bump these 1 tier up, due to Solo usefulness: Squid's Grasp (engagement), Acolyte's Frostbite (solo long casts casting)

[Boeroer]

I haven't tested them all

Then the list is of little relevance, right?

 

Because judging weapons based on their description alone doesn't work well.

 

Take Scordeos Edge: you can't know that its bonuses work for all weapons you use unless you used it. You'd have to test it to find out.

 

Also that Grave Calling and Hel Beckoning can be used to summon imps that don't count towards the summon limit and let you create a huge imp army (if you pair it with the right classes) can only be experienced by testing (or reading people's posts about testing).

 

Another example (not one-handed though): the Espirs estoc will proc Ghost Blades on kill. That's the description. Sounds rather lame because Ghost Blades only have 8-11 base damage. What the description doesn't say and what you can only find out via testing is that those Ghost Blades profit from the enchantments of the blade, from all passive abilities that work with the blade (e.g. Sneak Attach, Two Handed Style etc.). And that not only kills with the Blade trigger those "empowered" Ghost Blades but all kills as long as you hold the weapon. This includes the Ghost Blades themselves which can therefore proc themselves. So, the difference between description and actual behavior is huge.

 

There are so many behaviors that only get revealed once you use an item - a tier list (partially) based on item description is rather pointless in my opinion.

[mant2si]

Please be more specific, what builds you use to rate weapons ? Magistrate's Cudgel  (TIER  D),  Grave Calling (TIER D), Sun and Moon (TIER A), Rust's Poignard (TIER A), Scordeo's Edge (Sabre) ... in current state this list is useless

[Ansalon]

Scordeo's Edge is one of the best one-handed weapons in the game, as is Rust's Poignard - especially when combined. Scordeo's can stack above its cap currently, and while this is obviously a bug and will be fixed, you can get over 100 bonus accuracy if you build around it, and it applies to both weapons. Even after the inevitable nerf/fix +20 accuracy is no joke. Attacks that hit multiple times provide multiple stacks (it is particularly devastating on a Monk with Swift Flurry and Heartbeat Drumming). Rust's Poignard attack speed vs flanked also applies to both weapons, and when combined with Scordeo's you can prone lock most bosses quite easily (Bring Low has a 7 second duration). It is hilariously powerful when you get a Blade Cascade proc. The fact that it's a small weapon makes it an ideal off hand weapon for using full attacks.

 

The lightsaber is too situational to be considered top tier imo, severely outclassed by Scordeo's Edge.

I did run some tests on Scordeo's Edge and my thoughts where at the point where you stack up the recovery time buff to decent levels a lot of the mobs will already be dead. Power Early in a fight  > Power later in a fight. If you can show me a common scenario where you can reliably stack it I will definitely move it up the list but I just don't see it atm. For the Lightsaber take the post into context. Its actually worse then a non unique weapon in most cases but assuming you would severly underpen the target you get rid of the -75% dmg (which is multiplicative dmg not additive) penalty making it a strong choice imo in a common reliable scenario. Is it worth investing upgrade materials for? Thats a completly different argument for another time. I would rate Rusts Poignard high Tier A, but atm the tier lists are randomly ordered within a Tier.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Ansalon

[Ansalon]

 

I haven't tested them all

Then the list is of little relevance, right?

 

Because judging weapons based on their description alone doesn't work well.

 

Take Scordeos Edge: you can't know that its bonuses work for all weapons you use unless you used it. You'd have to test it to find out.

 

Also that Grave Calling and Hel Beckoning can be used to summon imps that don't count towards the summon limit and let you create a huge imp army (if you pair it with the right classes) can only be experienced by testing (or reading people's posts about testing).

 

Another example (not one-handed though): the Espirs estoc will proc Ghost Blades on kill. That's the description. Sounds rather lame because Ghost Blades only have 8-11 base damage. What the description doesn't say and what you can only find out via testing is that those Ghost Blades profit from the enchantments of the blade, from all passive abilities that work with the blade (e.g. Sneak Attach, Two Handed Style etc.). And that not only kills with the Blade trigger those "empowered" Ghost Blades but all kills as long as you hold the weapon. This includes the Ghost Blades themselves which can therefore proc themselves. So, the difference between description and actual behavior is huge.

 

There are so many behaviors that only get revealed once you use an item - a tier list (partially) based on item description is rather pointless in my opinion.

 

I have run multiple tests on many weapons. There are just so many in the game which you can run with so many different classes. Don't understand why I'm getting so much hate. Atleast on reddit the discussion was civil when people disagreed. People here just says the tier list is useless when they don't even bother reading the post in its full context. Idk.

[thundercleese]

Scordeo's Edge is the sabre with the stacking accuracy buff - Scordeo's Trophy is the pistol with the stacking recovery buff. Scordeo's Edge is very easy to stack the accuracy, which makes it synergize very well with on crit effects (like Rust's as I mentioned). Abilities that hit multiple times/multiple foes at once will grant one stack per hit, which makes it devastating in the hands of a monk with Swift Flurry/Heartbeat Drumming (again, as I already stated). Even if you don't use a crit weapon, more accuracy = more hits and crits = more dps. It applies to both weapons if you DW too.

 

The problem we have is that you are rating some very powerful weapons very lowly, because you obviously haven't tested them sufficiently. Easy fix is to remove anything you haven't properly tested from all the lists.

[heldred]

Is this list perfect?

 

No, but with an internet full of opinions, what could ever satisfy the ravenous maw of debate?

 

Personally, I like lists because they “attempt” to provide some structure of classification that can be debated and refined over time.

 

To say, “you never used it” so your list is meaningless is simply absurd, borderline obstinate. Are these lists ideal? No, but far from useless. University professors may spend lifetimes researching ancient weapons and armor, but is their work pointless because they never thrust a drusus into the heart of a charging opponent? The answer is no... they do their best studying available opinions, researching ancient accounts, comparing the metallurgy, etc. In short, doing their best with the available numbers, data points, and reports.

 

The original poster did a decent job with the classification lists, and he or she should be commended for their effort. What we, as a productive community, should do, is help constructively refine this list through debate and sharing experiences.

 

My suggestion... we’ve already flogged the author... instead, let’s help refine the list. Yes, there will always be exceptions around certain builds, but to say we can’t distinguish the superiority of Devil of Caroc armor or Magran’s Favor axe is just being stubborn.

Edited August 12, 2018 by heldred

[Manveru123]

 

To say, “you never used it” so your list is meaningless is simply absurd, borderline obstinate. 

Hi, this is my list of the tastiest food in the world. I never even tried any of those, but that doesn't mean the list is useless!

[Verde]

Duskfall and Squids Grasp absolutely need to be higher. Animancers Blade much lower.

[heldred]

 

 

To say, “you never used it” so your list is meaningless is simply absurd, borderline obstinate.

Hi, this is my list of the tastiest food in the world. I never even tried any of those, but that doesn't mean the list is useless!

There is a site, called Wikipedia, that provides information on events, cultures, geography, etc. I think it has “decent” utilization... Oddly enough, the vast majority of the community of authors never met Napoleon, summited K2, or spent extensive time with Blue Whales, but there it is... mankind’s attempt to list events, describe the character of historical figures, and rationalize the world around us.

 

Someone may find Wikipedia useless, admittedly weak in areas, but for a significant number of people it serves a purpose.

 

Feel free to disagree with any list... that’s why accessible admin privileges were created in most Wiki communities. For these boards, I hope we all continue to share our opinions and help improve the content. No need to mock somoneone’s work, unless you get off on that kind of thing.

[Manveru123]

Wikipedia states facts and describes historical events. This list is nothing more than an opinion. Comparing these is.. how do I put it.. simply absurd, borderline obstinate.

[Ansalon]

 

I haven't tested them all

Then the list is of little relevance, right?

 

Because judging weapons based on their description alone doesn't work well.

 

Take Scordeos Edge: you can't know that its bonuses work for all weapons you use unless you used it. You'd have to test it to find out.

 

Also that Grave Calling and Hel Beckoning can be used to summon imps that don't count towards the summon limit and let you create a huge imp army (if you pair it with the right classes) can only be experienced by testing (or reading people's posts about testing).

 

Another example (not one-handed though): the Espirs estoc will proc Ghost Blades on kill. That's the description. Sounds rather lame because Ghost Blades only have 8-11 base damage. What the description doesn't say and what you can only find out via testing is that those Ghost Blades profit from the enchantments of the blade, from all passive abilities that work with the blade (e.g. Sneak Attach, Two Handed Style etc.). And that not only kills with the Blade trigger those "empowered" Ghost Blades but all kills as long as you hold the weapon. This includes the Ghost Blades themselves which can therefore proc themselves. So, the difference between description and actual behavior is huge.

 

There are so many behaviors that only get revealed once you use an item - a tier list (partially) based on item description is rather pointless in my opinion.

 

You are taking the statement "I haven't tested them all" and turn it into "I have done 0 tests" which is a strawman argument and very disingenuous.

[Ansalon]

 

To say, “you never used it” so your list is meaningless is simply absurd, borderline obstinate. 

Hi, this is my list of the tastiest food in the world. I never even tried any of those, but that doesn't mean the list is useless!

 

Hi this is my list of the tastiest pizzas in the world. I haven't tried every pizza topping combination imaginable, but I have tried enough toppings in different combinations to make a pretty educated guess on how each individual pizza will taste if you put these toppings together. I certainly didnt like putting ice cream on my pizza! Maybe some people in very rare circumstances will like it, but for the most part I think most people won't!.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Ansalon

[Ansalon]

Wikipedia states facts and describes historical events. This list is nothing more than an opinion. Comparing these is.. how do I put it.. simply absurd, borderline obstinate.

And imo wikipedia is a very useful resource. Obviously not something you should use as a primary source, but it is a nice compilation of information to get you started. Just like wikipedia, this adds links so you can make further investigation into topics yourself.

 

Edit: I do both make factual statements and also provide opinions in my post. Take everything with a grain of salt.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Ansalon

[Ansalon]

Is this list perfect?

 

No, but with an internet full of opinions, what could ever satisfy the ravenous maw of debate?

 

Personally, I like lists because they “attempt” to provide some structure of classification that can be debated and refined over time.

 

To say, “you never used it” so your list is meaningless is simply absurd, borderline obstinate. Are these lists ideal? No, but far from useless. University professors may spend lifetimes researching ancient weapons and armor, but is their work pointless because they never thrust a drusus into the heart of a charging opponent? The answer is no... they do their best studying available opinions, researching ancient accounts, comparing the metallurgy, etc. In short, doing their best with the available numbers, data points, and reports.

 

The original poster did a decent job with the classification lists, and he or she should be commended for their effort. What we, as a productive community, should do, is help constructively refine this list through debate and sharing experiences.

 

My suggestion... we’ve already flogged the author... instead, let’s help refine the list. Yes, there will always be exceptions around certain builds, but to say we can’t distinguish the superiority of Devil of Caroc armor or Magran’s Favor axe is just being stubborn.

Thank you for reading my post in it's intended state. I was hoping to spark a discussion with another audience like I did on reddit. I'm still hopeful this is possible. To anyone reading my posts, sorry if im coming of abrasive. It just sucks when you put a lot of effort into something and then people take a big **** on it.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Ansalon

[Manveru123]

 

 

To say, “you never used it” so your list is meaningless is simply absurd, borderline obstinate. 

Hi, this is my list of the tastiest food in the world. I never even tried any of those, but that doesn't mean the list is useless!

 

Hi this is my list of the tastiest pizzas in the world. I haven't tried every pizza topping combination imaginable, but I have tried enough toppings in different combinations to make a pretty educated guess on how each individual pizza will taste if you put these toppings together. I certainly didnt like putting ice cream on my pizza! Maybe some people in very rare circumstances will like it, but for the most part I think most people won't!.

 

Your "educated guess" put in Tier D a weapon that casts a foe-only Chill Fog on kill and summons a monster on each kill (that ignores summon limits). And yet in tier S you put a weapon that is inferior to every other Sabre in like 80% of the encounters. I'm sorry but it is really difficult to take you seriously. 

 

Please remind me to never try your pizza recommendations.

[mant2si]

I'm already wrote this in your armor post, but just group weapon by their type and give advise which build can or cannot use it, i'm sure most of the people on this forum will help you with your guide then

You can mark from A - D for example amount of builds which can use this weapon 

Edited August 12, 2018 by mant2si

[M4xw0lf]

 

Is this list perfect?

 

No, but with an internet full of opinions, what could ever satisfy the ravenous maw of debate?

 

Personally, I like lists because they “attempt” to provide some structure of classification that can be debated and refined over time.

 

To say, “you never used it” so your list is meaningless is simply absurd, borderline obstinate. Are these lists ideal? No, but far from useless. University professors may spend lifetimes researching ancient weapons and armor, but is their work pointless because they never thrust a drusus into the heart of a charging opponent? The answer is no... they do their best studying available opinions, researching ancient accounts, comparing the metallurgy, etc. In short, doing their best with the available numbers, data points, and reports.

 

The original poster did a decent job with the classification lists, and he or she should be commended for their effort. What we, as a productive community, should do, is help constructively refine this list through debate and sharing experiences.

 

My suggestion... we’ve already flogged the author... instead, let’s help refine the list. Yes, there will always be exceptions around certain builds, but to say we can’t distinguish the superiority of Devil of Caroc armor or Magran’s Favor axe is just being stubborn.

Thank you for reading my post in it's intended state. I was hoping to spark a discussion with another audience like I did on reddit. I'm still hopeful this is possible. To anyone reading my posts, sorry if im coming of abrasive. It just sucks when you put a lot of effort into something and then people take a big **** on it.

 

I appreaciate your effort on these lists, but you have to realize that this here is the place where the most in-depth discussions on Pillars' game mechanics are led, and where people will be interested in using every single item to its fullest potential. Under these conditions your lists are bound to fail, because you cannot hope to compile all the best use cases for every single unique item within a lifetime (at least as someone who is not paid to do this for 40 hours a week).

[Ansalon]

I'm already wrote this in your armor post, but just group weapon by their type and give advise which build can or cannot use it, i'm sure most of the people on this forum will help you with your guide then

 

You can mark from A - D for example amount of builds which can use this weapon 

Then the intention of the guides becomes very different then what I had intended. No one is forcing you to contribute to the discussion. There is always gonna be different preferences on how things should be done. I will listen to feedback, but in the end it is my guide based on my opinions/experiences and I can format it however I see fit. I'm not sure but it kinda seems like some people doesn't like the fact im trying to make value judgments about the viability of different items? Then this guide and my future guides will probably not be your cup of tea and thats fine. You can chose to hate on it, contribute to it or ignore it. Noone is gonna stop you.

[Boeroer]

 

 

I haven't tested them all

Then the list is of little relevance, right?

 

Because judging weapons based on their description alone doesn't work well.

 

Take Scordeos Edge: you can't know that its bonuses work for all weapons you use unless you used it. You'd have to test it to find out.

 

Also that Grave Calling and Hel Beckoning can be used to summon imps that don't count towards the summon limit and let you create a huge imp army (if you pair it with the right classes) can only be experienced by testing (or reading people's posts about testing).

 

Another example (not one-handed though): the Espirs estoc will proc Ghost Blades on kill. That's the description. Sounds rather lame because Ghost Blades only have 8-11 base damage. What the description doesn't say and what you can only find out via testing is that those Ghost Blades profit from the enchantments of the blade, from all passive abilities that work with the blade (e.g. Sneak Attach, Two Handed Style etc.). And that not only kills with the Blade trigger those "empowered" Ghost Blades but all kills as long as you hold the weapon. This includes the Ghost Blades themselves which can therefore proc themselves. So, the difference between description and actual behavior is huge.

 

There are so many behaviors that only get revealed once you use an item - a tier list (partially) based on item description is rather pointless in my opinion.

You are taking the statement "I haven't tested them all" and turn it into "I have done 0 tests" which is a strawman argument and very disingenuous.

And you are using a personal attack to express your frustration.

 

I never said that you did 0 tests. You said you didn't test them all - I say that the list is rather pointless then. Because some of your opinions are based on tests and some not. And we can't say which ones. So we can't trust your judgement on all of them because we always must fear that you didn't test that one particular item I'm interested in.

 

This is not personal - I just don't think your list is good. If you will improve it in the future with edits, based on feedback then I will be happy to tap your shoulder - even though I generally think that tier lists in Deadfire are... difficult. Better make an informative list of pros and cons and recommendations for which build/role a certain item would be useful. But even a tier list would be ok. It will always be biased but as long as the infos around it are correct it's good enough.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Boeroer

[Ansalon]

 

 

 

I haven't tested them all

Then the list is of little relevance, right?

 

Because judging weapons based on their description alone doesn't work well.

 

Take Scordeos Edge: you can't know that its bonuses work for all weapons you use unless you used it. You'd have to test it to find out.

 

Also that Grave Calling and Hel Beckoning can be used to summon imps that don't count towards the summon limit and let you create a huge imp army (if you pair it with the right classes) can only be experienced by testing (or reading people's posts about testing).

 

Another example (not one-handed though): the Espirs estoc will proc Ghost Blades on kill. That's the description. Sounds rather lame because Ghost Blades only have 8-11 base damage. What the description doesn't say and what you can only find out via testing is that those Ghost Blades profit from the enchantments of the blade, from all passive abilities that work with the blade (e.g. Sneak Attach, Two Handed Style etc.). And that not only kills with the Blade trigger those "empowered" Ghost Blades but all kills as long as you hold the weapon. This includes the Ghost Blades themselves which can therefore proc themselves. So, the difference between description and actual behavior is huge.

 

There are so many behaviors that only get revealed once you use an item - a tier list (partially) based on item description is rather pointless in my opinion.

You are taking the statement "I haven't tested them all" and turn it into "I have done 0 tests" which is a strawman argument and very disingenuous.

And you are using a personal attack to express your frustration.

 

I never said that you did 0 tests. You said you didn't test them all - I say that the list is rather pointless then. Because some of your opinions are based on tests and some not. And we can't say which ones. So we can't trust your judgement on all of them because we always must fear that you didn't test that one particular item I'm interested in.

 

This is not personal - I just don't think your list is good. If you will improve it in the future with edits, based on feedback then I will be happy to tap your shoulder - even though I generally think that tier lists in Deadfire are... difficult. Better make an informative list of pros and cons and recommendations for which build/role a certain item would be useful. But even a tier list would be ok. It will always be biased but as long as the infos around it are correct it's good enough.

 

You said among other things; "As with the other two lists: no point when having no in-game experience with them or reading about in-game experience." and "Because judging weapons based on their description alone doesn't work well." How is this not claiming I did 0 tests? If you actually read the entirety of the posts you will see very clearly i discuss things in detail. I'm willing to drop this matter and move forward. Its pretty difficult to have a discussion when we are both typing across multiple posts. It just seems like a big waste of time. I will try my best to update the lists, but it might take me some time due rl responsibilities.

[Vitalis]

 

 

I haven't tested them all

Then the list is of little relevance, right?

 

Because judging weapons based on their description alone doesn't work well.

 

Take Scordeos Edge: you can't know that its bonuses work for all weapons you use unless you used it. You'd have to test it to find out.

 

Also that Grave Calling and Hel Beckoning can be used to summon imps that don't count towards the summon limit and let you create a huge imp army (if you pair it with the right classes) can only be experienced by testing (or reading people's posts about testing).

 

Another example (not one-handed though): the Espirs estoc will proc Ghost Blades on kill. That's the description. Sounds rather lame because Ghost Blades only have 8-11 base damage. What the description doesn't say and what you can only find out via testing is that those Ghost Blades profit from the enchantments of the blade, from all passive abilities that work with the blade (e.g. Sneak Attach, Two Handed Style etc.). And that not only kills with the Blade trigger those "empowered" Ghost Blades but all kills as long as you hold the weapon. This includes the Ghost Blades themselves which can therefore proc themselves. So, the difference between description and actual behavior is huge.

 

There are so many behaviors that only get revealed once you use an item - a tier list (partially) based on item description is rather pointless in my opinion.

You are taking the statement "I haven't tested them all" and turn it into "I have done 0 tests" which is a strawman argument and very disingenuous.

He's taken your statement and applied it to the weapons that you think are ****. How do I know that? Your very description and ranking of Grave Calling and Hel Beckoning indicates that you think very poorly of them, however testing indicates that they are quite powerful.

 

He didn't make a strawman argument, maybe you should learn what one is before you start throwing it around.