dps tests of some classes/multiclasses * some values will change with 2.1 patch

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Because of CW mechanics.

CW is long duration debuff that does nothing on its own.

When you hit target with CW, it applies single stack of DoT that does 4 damage per 3s for 6s

Furthermore, hitting target with active stacks deals instant damage equal to one tick.

 

This means that hitting target with BB creates 4 stacks, dealing 24 instant damage + 32 damage over 6s.

 

Hitting target with 2 BBs (full attack) deals 112 damage and 64 damage over 6s

 

You see where this is going?

 

Single hit on target with 20 stacks deals extra 80 damage, which is massive.

 

These calculations are made only with base values, so you can imagine how Massive the numbers can get. Remember that every teammate can trigger CW so it ramps up very quickly

 

 

As a practical example, in the DLC there are many fights that consist of a small number (2-4) of very high health enemies who are also weak to fire damage.

 

If you can land CW on them, and then a few casts of a bouncing attack like Mind Blades or Bounding Missiles, it's not hard to quickly rack up 20+ stacks of CW within a few seconds. Nothing survives that. Even very high AR enemies die rapidly anyway because resistance doesn't matter if you're being hit for 1,000 damage anyway,.

[Manveru123]

Or you empower Meteor Shower and loot the corpses.

[thundercleese]

dph=damage per combat hour

 

I believe "damage per playtime hour" would be more accurate.

 

If a single combat lasted one hour, Evoker, for example, would fire nukes in the first minute then auto-attack for the rest of combat. DPS is meaningless without context. Here the context is quite complex, from starting on a beach to the final boss. Solo Evoker, for example, would not last one hour in combat, unlike let's say Paladin, so Evoker damage per hour is in such context meaningless. In a party, with spell refresh between encounters, context is different and dps has value. 

 

btw was it not obvious that Evoker has highest dps?

Except you are completely missing the point that there is actually a statistic in the character sheet page that is literally called "time in combat" which is measured in in game hours, minutes and seconds. An in game hours for this stat is I believe less than 5 minutes real time.

[knownastherat]

Am I?

 

run through hosango, poka kohara, drowned borrows and few other places in Upscaled Potd. Run takes about an hour on average.

[thundercleese]

 

I ran a couple so far and for what it's worth strict dps probably is not the most important factor but it may be interesting to see some results none the less and something worth considering of what the cap is on 

 

 

Tank was always Holy Slayer but he don't matter

first to 100K wins, no "cheeze buffs" ie red hand damage boost (unless you are using it) on self just trying to test builds...like if it can be used on any toon and is not a vital cornerstone of the build I don't use it just the skills the builds provide

using best appropriate gear for each build and stat spread

no damage taken enabled (unity console) - can't really "test" bloodied state bonuses in a fast run through so if a toon is a say a death godlike I just gibve them +1 power level all the time to average things out - Woedica shaman was death godlike others are always hearth orlans anyways. poor barbarians and "bloodied" talent - I don't know how to reliably test that/factor that in. 

all toons are at level 20 and taking abilities to maximaize damage

ai scripts tuned to do best damage priority abilities no healing etc just deeps as much as possible

run through hosango, poka kohara, drowned borrows and few other places in Upscaled Potd. Run takes about an hour on average.

Hot Razor Skewers is the standardized food of choice

dph=damage per combat hour

 

 

First Test (perfecting ai scripts)

 

 

Witch rdps 10,046 dph 

Shaman Woedica "Fists and Fire" 8,846 dph

Mindstalker (blunderbuss streetfighter/ascednant) 6,855 dph

Cipher asc Pure the Red Hand 3,837 dph

 

conclusion: cipher asc got murdered by not having enough burst and everyone else killing stuff faster

 

- - - - - - 

 

Test 2

 

Transcendent 12,057 dph

Cipher asc single class 13,426 dph

Witch rdps 21,079 dph

Magran pure fire priest 10,935 dph

 

Gave single class cipher better burst at start with Kitchen Stove and dual wield setup, he performed much better. 

Magran priest too slow as he has no speed buffs.

 

- - - - - - - 

 

Test 3

 

aoe blunderbuss mortar Scout dot bleeder with avenging storm scrolls 9,844 dph

Shaman of Woedica "Fists and Fire" 12,853 dph

Witch rdps 13,510 dph

Mindstalker rdps 6,208 dph

 

conclusion: not enough things to dot bleed when eveything dies fast, but still respectable and the classes in this test were more inline with each other dps-wise except for the Mindstalker

 

 

- - - - - - - - - - 

 

 

Test 4

 

Evoker single class "Duke I just'Nukem with lvl9slol" 20,437 dph

Witch  rdps 15,063

Shaman Woedica "Fist and Fire" hybrid 12,364 dph

Wanderer Gunhawk/Helwalker rdps The Red Hand single target 7,031 dph

 

conclusion: Wizard insta buffs with motion and vital essence and nukes none stop with grimoire of vaporous wizardry .... lol. 7K coming from the wanderer is all single target (no aoe attacks) and coming in such a strong group is actually very good considering everyone else aoes stuff. well the Shaman is technically a hybrid between aoe fire spells and single target fist attacks. 

 

 

I'll probably test a single class vengeful defeat berserker next with a nice weapon...you can guess which one

 

Yes, yes you are.

[knownastherat]

lol

[hilfazer]

OP, why do You make us divide all those numbers by 3600?

[1TTFFSSE]

OP, why do You make us divide all those numbers by 3600?

It was easier to calculate per combat hour rather than by combat second because the records shows hours/minutes spent in combat and not seconds. 

[Boeroer]

Is dps important though? At the end of the day it only counts that you can win every encounter. A high defense build with moderate dps has higher chances to win an encounter than a high dps build with moderate defenses. Especially on PotD this becomes obvious. Fights take longer, but the risk of failing is much lower. So why is everybody so fixated on dps?

Edited September 1, 2018 by Boeroer

[Teclis23]

Because they are Dumb Pieces of  Shi$t    lol

 

No seriously they are just chatting 

Edited September 1, 2018 by Teclis23

[MaxQuest]

Is dps important though? At the end of the day it only counts that you can win every encounter. A high defense build with moderate dps has higher chances to win an encounter than a high dps build with moderate defenses. Especially on PotD this becomes obvious. Fights take longer, but the risk of failing is much lower. So why is everybody so fixated on dps?

^ I am less fixated on dps-per-se, and more inclined towards finding a party that would handle all combat encounters combined, in the least amount of real time.

 

Having higher dps is usually directly correlated with that. Plus, the faster you kill, the less time enemies had to damage your party.

But if party setup requires heavy micro of more than 3 characters, lots of pausing / slow-mode, or even worse: get knockdown or have to reload, then it goes against that metric. Usually there is a golden mean between the [high-dps] and [high-sturdiness] extremes. And what I liked about PoE1, that there were even 2 such means: [high-dps + lots-of-hard-cc] and [over-time-damage + sturdiness] were both great.

Edited September 1, 2018 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

 

 

Having higher dps is usually directly correlated with that. Plus, the faster you kill, the less time enemies had to damage your party.

 

That's a slippery slope, because once a damage dealer goes down his dps goes down rather steeply as well.

 

There's a reason why solo playthroughs with hugh defenses but only mediocre damage output are so much easier than the ones with a high dps setup and lowish defenses. This is also true for parties, but here the risk of failing due to squishyness is a lot lower of course. Still the general rule persists. Try 5 tanky Heralds with Ancient Memory/Their Courage/Exhalted Endurance and Brand Enemy. Maybe make it one Trickster/Troubadour with Gouging Strike for fire immune enemies. Dps of this party is really low, but it's nearly impossible to fail with them. High defenses + passive healing + anti-affliction + summons. All that contributes to your survival while the whimpy dps is enough to win.

Sure, it's boring as hell - but it's only an example how low dps/high defenses is superior to high dps/low defenses. So in my opinion these forums should rather theorycraft around raising defenses and not dps. I think only Kaylon does this.

 

The rest is discussing dps here and dps there all the time (including me). I mean it's more fun to talk about offense than about defense.

 

Like football: once Italy is involved the game becomes a tedium to watch...  

[Dr <3]

Btw a chanter/pala with the blackened plate ( death in life) + swift wind of death + the crystal shield with regen + regen aura + ev branded enemy ( better if goldpact knight) ...

 

Could literally grind everything...

 

the most boring build i found yet, but it is unkillable thanks to limitless regeneration ( aura, shield, lay of hand in emergency) and -75% dmg reduction for uber DR (plate+aura+sworn enemy) + high defences

[hilfazer]

Is dps important though?

 

You're kidding. Everyone, their brothers and dogs talk about DPS all the time.

 

Are all players just hypocrites who only pretend to care about DPS while being perfectly fine without any DPS values being provided? Hmm... i'm not sure. Actually, it could be true given how very rarely someone on these fora provides a DPS value and nobody having a problem with that.

 

 

 

A high defense build with moderate dps has higher chances to win an encounter than a high dps build with moderate defenses.

 

True. DPS isn't be-all-end-all of everything. It's not some ultimate measure of performance but rather what is written on the cover: damage per second.

That's a functions of at least damage and attack speed, sometimes also accuracy and maybe even armor's damage reduction but those last 2 (often) depend on stats of defender so they're hard to calculate.

DPS won't take into account things like overkill - 1 attack per second with damage of 100 has same DPS as 10 attacks per second with damage of 10 but the latter is much more resistant to overkill*. Overkill is taken into account by KPM (kills per minute) or Clear Speed but those metrics aren't nearly as popular as DPS so i guess players are totally fine with overkilling.

 

 

Besides, this thread has 'DPS' in title so i think it's valid to expect some DPS values.

 

 

* and that's why absolute damage reduction is good - it gives high DPH attack a natural advantage in form or anti-armor efficency. Those attacks need an advantage because they have a nartural weakness in the form of overkill vulnerability.

Hope i'm not becoming too annoying in my % damage reduction bashing.

Edited September 1, 2018 by hilfazer

[1TTFFSSE]

Beta 2.1 Patch test:

 

Shaman Woedica / Berserker 9,288 dph

Contemplative Woedica / Helwalker 12,520 dph

Witch (rdps) 11,943 dph

Cipher asc   10,670 dph

 

 

This was a very curious and "close" run now in beta 2.1 patch. I primarily wanted to test monk vs barbarian after the dual wield and lion's sprint nerfs....and the results are pretty sad for barbarians in the upcoming patch.

 

While before they could compete and surpass the likes of strong monk and rogue dps thanks to the permanent +15 accuracy stat from lion's sprint, without it their dps drops significantly I would say and the nerf to dual wielding does not help either.

 

Before the patch The Shaman of Woedica (or Skaen)/Berserker could put out overall damage similar or just a bit lower than a Witch Rdps, while maintaining overall better single target damage which in my book was impressive for its versatility. Now it is significantly lower almost by 2500-3000 dph. This is very important to note because the Shaman gets hit particularly hard by the adjustment to Lion's Sprint, while the Witch can compensate by using Borrowed Instinct - so you can pretty much see very clearly how much 15 less overall accuracy/per encounter hurts. 

 

With the nerf to Barbarian Lion's sprint and dual wield attacks even a single class cipher ascendant now does much better by default as you see from the numbers-because dual wield attacks became weaker, barbs became significantly weaker. 

 

Enter a new star kid on the block for hybrid spellcaster/pummeler- the Contemplative. To see how many bonuses I could stack I went Woedica/Helwalker, because I wanted to use fists for the great monk bonuses to unarmed+woedica spiritual weapon. With lashes you can get +15% shock lightning strikes, +10-20% (on average) from turning wheel, and finally +20% raw from spiritual weapon woedica to your super fast fist attacks. Helwalker might bonus on top of that and dance of death accuracy. This guy is very efficient because after launching a massive damage over time aoe attack in storm of holy fire, he goes in pummels things to death. Anyways that character won this latest test although I suspect with the buff to eldritch aim casting time a wizard/ evoker has distanced himslef from the rest of the field even more in this upcoming patch. 

[mant2si]

Is Woedica Contemplative get double bonus for their summon weapon, I suggest you to test non-Woedica subclass :D But yes Contemplative is my №1 build

Edited September 4, 2018 by mant2si

[brasilgringo]

 

Enter a new star kid on the block for hybrid spellcaster/pummeler- the Contemplative. To see how many bonuses I could stack I went Woedica/Helwalker, because I wanted to use fists for the great monk bonuses to unarmed+woedica spiritual weapon. With lashes you can get +15% shock lightning strikes, +10-20% (on average) from turning wheel, and finally +20% raw from spiritual weapon woedica to your super fast fist attacks. Helwalker might bonus on top of that and dance of death accuracy. This guy is very efficient because after launching a massive damage over time aoe attack in storm of holy fire, he goes in pummels things to death. Anyways that character won this latest test although I suspect with the buff to eldritch aim casting time a wizard/ evoker has distanced himslef from the rest of the field even more in this upcoming patch. 

 

Sounds interesting.  Build you can share?

[1TTFFSSE]

2.1 Beta Cipher ascendant shootout - long test running up to first to 150K damage, with BoW enemies (high pen) so dps figures lower on average than prior tests. All toons had identical base stats and equipment. Ai was identical as much as possible. 

 

Witch/Berserker 10,738 dph

Transcendent/Helwalker 10,423 dph

Cipher asc single 7,184 dph

Mindstalker/Streetfighter 5,670 dph

[Lampros]

Does MaxQuest's DPS parser work for PoE 2 as well?

[Lampros]

Amazing thread - I was looking for something like this!

[1TTFFSSE]

Amazing thread - I was looking for something like this!

Just know the test I run are at lvl 20 characters with optimized equipment and basically ignoring incoming damage so take it as it is.

 

Over the course of the game I have found the following for example:

 

-Barbarian (Berserker)

-Streetfighter (Blunderbuss/ recovery reduction)

-Cipher single class

and their multiclass variants 

Can do impressive damage from the start of a game throughout the playthrough and tend to out dps other strong dps classes like monks and wizards until the very late levels.

 

Like wizards and monks / monk/x variants to spectacular damage but at very late levels when they get key decisive abilities like the level 8/9 nukes in case of wizards and turning wheel

, heartbeat shenanigans in the case of monks. 

[Lampros]

 

Amazing thread - I was looking for something like this!

Just know the test I run are at lvl 20 characters with optimized equipment and basically ignoring incoming damage so take it as it is.

 

Over the course of the game I have found the following for example:

 

-Barbarian (Berserker)

-Streetfighter (Blunderbuss/ recovery reduction)

-Cipher single class

and their multiclass variants 

Can do impressive damage from the start of a game throughout the playthrough and tend to out dps other strong dps classes like monks and wizards until the very late levels.

 

Like wizards and monks / monk/x variants to spectacular damage but at very late levels when they get key decisive abilities like the level 8/9 nukes in case of wizards and turning wheel

, heartbeat shenanigans in the case of monks. 

 

 

What about single target DPS - especially melee?

[1TTFFSSE]

 

 

Amazing thread - I was looking for something like this!

Just know the test I run are at lvl 20 characters with optimized equipment and basically ignoring incoming damage so take it as it is.

 

Over the course of the game I have found the following for example:

 

-Barbarian (Berserker)

-Streetfighter (Blunderbuss/ recovery reduction)

-Cipher single class

and their multiclass variants 

Can do impressive damage from the start of a game throughout the playthrough and tend to out dps other strong dps classes like monks and wizards until the very late levels.

 

Like wizards and monks / monk/x variants to spectacular damage but at very late levels when they get key decisive abilities like the level 8/9 nukes in case of wizards and turning wheel

, heartbeat shenanigans in the case of monks. 

 

 

What about single target DPS - especially melee?

 

They are generally lower than spellcaster/ ranged builds. Barabarians and monks are quite good when optimized but in general aoe blunderbuss/ spellcaster builds that can jst stand in one place and pewpew of course do more damage. 

 

Like in my game right now a ranged shadowdancer streetfighter/helwalker with blunderbuss and pistol is doing more damage (though not by much) than a melee witch zerker who has to chase some targets during target swap sometimes. 

[Lampros]

 

 

 

Amazing thread - I was looking for something like this!

Just know the test I run are at lvl 20 characters with optimized equipment and basically ignoring incoming damage so take it as it is.

 

Over the course of the game I have found the following for example:

 

-Barbarian (Berserker)

-Streetfighter (Blunderbuss/ recovery reduction)

-Cipher single class

and their multiclass variants 

Can do impressive damage from the start of a game throughout the playthrough and tend to out dps other strong dps classes like monks and wizards until the very late levels.

 

Like wizards and monks / monk/x variants to spectacular damage but at very late levels when they get key decisive abilities like the level 8/9 nukes in case of wizards and turning wheel

, heartbeat shenanigans in the case of monks. 

 

 

What about single target DPS - especially melee?

 

They are generally lower than spellcaster/ ranged builds. Barabarians and monks are quite good when optimized but in general aoe blunderbuss/ spellcaster builds that can jst stand in one place and pewpew of course do more damage. 

 

Like in my game right now a ranged shadowdancer streetfighter/helwalker with blunderbuss and pistol is doing more damage (though not by much) than a melee witch zerker who has to chase some targets during target swap sometimes. 

 

 

I may also try a Blunderbuss build then. I worry that a pure spell caster will be too annoying to script

[mant2si]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^

If you want decent range or melee build, then just pick single-class Monk - on L8 they get Resonate touch skill, this skill  with max might add ~25 raw damage for each your hit, on L9 they get Whispers of the Wind which currently the best unlimited mult-target ability in the game

So for example if your enemies stay together each Blunderbuss hit can generate resonate on each enemy in blunderbuss AOE, 5 FULL ATTACKS HITS with Whispers of the Wind on 5 Enemies can generate 10 Resonates for each enemy which equal to ~250 non avoidable damage per target, but the real fun starts when you pick Kitchen Stove, with +2 projectiles update, now after Whispers of the Wind you can generate 15 Resonante per target in blunderbuss AOE and 4 per target (and may generate up 40 resonates for random target in) from Kitchen Stove which is something like 19 Resonates ~ 400DM per target, which in summary may get you ~2500 DM per single ability

Edited September 19, 2018 by mant2si