Political Thread XX

[Malcador]

No, just in general.

[Guard Dog]

I have posted this before. If you are 100% anything politically speaking you really are a sheep.Try doing some thinking on your own. I am more Libertarian than anything else but we're only talking about 85% match here. At best.

[Guard Dog]

There ARE Libertarians who are just anarchists or anarchocapitalists under a different name though, and those tend to be the loudest voices. Which is kind of the problem with Libertarians. Yes, there is a reasonable argument for toning down the military industrial complex and doing less military stuff around the world, but it shouldn't be at the cost of ceding to our rivals and just turtling up into hermitage isolation, which is the issue I have with L/libertarianism (which I've voiced before).

 

Anyhow, seems like the best route to office for third party groups is wearing the jersey (or skin if you want to get macabre) of either main party. After all, you have Rand Paul (and previously, his dad Ron Paul) who are pretty clearly Libertarian, but run under the Republican jersey. And then there is the aggressive bodysnatcher-esque method that Trump did.

 

@kaineparker: I heard that it had something to do with a bet he made.

As I posted before, Libertarians are not Republicans. And certainly vice versa. The Republican Party has done nothing, less than nothing, to expect Libertarian votes. Ditto with the Greens and Democrats. And I think you'll find people who have actually worn the uniform and served in conflicts overseas are a little more reticent in their support of asking other people to do it. Both D & R love sending us into wars. The only difference is who the bombs are falling on. It is way past time for that s--t to stop.

[Hurlshort]

 

I just don't get what your message is here. It reads like you are being dismissive of people who come forward with sexual assault claims. That seems like a terrible precedent to take.

This. This is exactly the kind of derp that makes me cut bait with you. I challenge a random, somehow uncounted (?), statistic and the clown car pulls up and disgorges this. I never even addressed the claims that were actually filed!. I honestly cant fathom how you operate in rl conversations.

 

Look, maybe we just aren't good at understanding each other. For example, I have no idea what derp and cutting bait even means. Even after looking them up, in the context of our conversation it does not make sense to me. I also cannot fathom how you operate in rl conversations, but I am going to assume you do just fine for yourself. Outside of the political thread, we seem to communicate with one another successfully, so at least we have that. 

[Gfted1]

Here you go:

 

1) derp - Used as a substitute for speech regarded as meaningless or stupid, or to comment on a foolish or stupid action.

2) fish or cut bait - To come to a decision point: either commit to what you're doing, or give it up entirely.

 

The struggle really is real with you. Even your Google is broken! Conversation, and life in general, will be much clearer for you if you simply focus on the text or words that are presented to you, NOT what your little angry inner monologue (a long and typically tedious speech by one person during a conversation) decides to fabricate.

[Amentep]

 

I just don't get what your message is here. It reads like you are being dismissive of people who come forward with sexual assault claims. That seems like a terrible precedent to take.

This. This is exactly the kind of derp that makes me cut bait with you. I challenge a random, somehow uncounted (?), statistic and the clown car pulls up and disgorges this. I never even addressed the claims that were actually filed!. I honestly cant fathom how you operate in rl conversations.

 

I'm not sure the statistic is "uncounted" in the sense that you mean.  My understanding of numbers like this is that they compare reported incidents with surveys of people who in the surveys claim some form of sexual abuse or assault.  So take a survey with a bunch of questions, normed to try and prevent bias and error, understand the margin of error on the surveys and then use the surveys to extrapolate to the entire population the expected population who have experienced sexual assault or abuse. This, minus reported cases, would give an expected unreported population to experience sexual abuse/assault.

 

So its not entirely pulling a random number out of a hat and one can always debate the methodology of data gathering and whether it shows what the researchers thinks it shows, bias in questions, etc., etc.  But its not just a gut feeling number, at least the studies that are looking at "unreported" parts of the population I've looked into have done this. I can't speak to these specific numbers presented in this thread as I haven't tried to dig into their methodology.

 

Its totally anecdotal evidence, so worthless as representative of the population, but everyone I've known who claimed some form of sexual abuse in their life never reported it to an authority figure.  The one person I knew whose family found out actually got blamed for their own rape by their family.  But again as a non-random sample, it can't be applied to the population as a whole, so it can't be made statistically relevant in this context.

 

[smjjames]

 

There ARE Libertarians who are just anarchists or anarchocapitalists under a different name though, and those tend to be the loudest voices. Which is kind of the problem with Libertarians. Yes, there is a reasonable argument for toning down the military industrial complex and doing less military stuff around the world, but it shouldn't be at the cost of ceding to our rivals and just turtling up into hermitage isolation, which is the issue I have with L/libertarianism (which I've voiced before).

 

Anyhow, seems like the best route to office for third party groups is wearing the jersey (or skin if you want to get macabre) of either main party. After all, you have Rand Paul (and previously, his dad Ron Paul) who are pretty clearly Libertarian, but run under the Republican jersey. And then there is the aggressive bodysnatcher-esque method that Trump did.

 

@kaineparker: I heard that it had something to do with a bet he made.

As I posted before, Libertarians are not Republicans. And certainly vice versa. The Republican Party has done nothing, less than nothing, to expect Libertarian votes. Ditto with the Greens and Democrats. And I think you'll find people who have actually worn the uniform and served in conflicts overseas are a little more reticent in their support of asking other people to do it. Both D & R love sending us into wars. The only difference is who the bombs are falling on. It is way past time for that s--t to stop.

 

 

I know Libertarians aren't Republicans, it's just that with the way things are set up, it seems like the best way to gain traction is to masquerade as Republican/Democrat. I was pointing to Ron and Rand Paul and Trump as examples of that, though Trump is the more extreme example. No idea how much of the Libertarian vote Rand Paul actually gets though, despite caucasing under the Republocans. Basically, it's just taking advantage of the fact that the two are big tent parties.

 

Sometimes it seems like the best way for third parties to actually be competitive is to have an European style parliament since third (and fourth, fifth, sixth, etc) parties do just fine there. Yeah, I know, there are a ton of structural differences, but one can't help but be jealous at them.

[Tagaziel]

 

libertarian is a tough sell at the national level.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Fixed that for you. Aren't you happy?

 

But hey, Trump is the libertarian candidate. Tax cuts that benefit the wealthy, rolling back welfare and environmental protection systems, removing all those pesky things that force people to be a little nicer to each other... Truly, a libertarian paradise it shall be (sans coastal states once the lack of regulation results in even faster climate changes, but who cares about death as long as you have ~*LiBeRtY*~).

Edited August 15, 2018 by Amentep
Don't circumvent the word filter with images

[smjjames]

 

 

libertarian is a tough sell at the national level.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Fixed that for you. Aren't you happy?

 

But hey, Trump is the libertarian candidate. Tax cuts that benefit the wealthy, rolling back welfare and environmental protection systems, removing all those pesky things that force people to be a little nicer to each other... Truly, a libertarian paradise it shall be (sans coastal states once the lack of regulation results in even faster climate changes, but who cares about death as long as you have ~*LiBeRtY*~).

 

 

While I get that the second part is sarcasm, I would say Trump is more anarcho-capitalist than libertarian. While I really only remember Gary Johnson for his position on marjuana, his isolationism, and constant gaffes, his policies on wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Gary_Johnson are pretty obviously not Trump. He's actually pro-EPA, just thinks that the government shouldn't subsidize (or bail out) renewable energy. Though interestingly, he seems to think that the government should prop up fossil fuel industries...

[BruceVC]

 

 

I just don't get what your message is here. It reads like you are being dismissive of people who come forward with sexual assault claims. That seems like a terrible precedent to take.

This. This is exactly the kind of derp that makes me cut bait with you. I challenge a random, somehow uncounted (?), statistic and the clown car pulls up and disgorges this. I never even addressed the claims that were actually filed!. I honestly cant fathom how you operate in rl conversations.

 

Look, maybe we just aren't good at understanding each other. For example, I have no idea what derp and cutting bait even means. Even after looking them up, in the context of our conversation it does not make sense to me. I also cannot fathom how you operate in rl conversations, but I am going to assume you do just fine for yourself. Outside of the political thread, we seem to communicate with one another successfully, so at least we have that. 

 

I agree, you two generally get on very well

 

But I dont think Gfted1 is more or less snarky at times than others? I would say we all have our moments of snarkiness 

[Gromnir]

It's because people who ascribe to some ideas and groups that aren't the norm are generally painted as the extreme. Democrats and Republicans can have nuance but Democratic Socialists have to be 100% socialist on everything and Libertarians have to be 100% libertarian on everything full stop.

 

am not certain we agree.  increasing political polarization makes it easier for folks to label democrats and republicans with blanket generalizations despite nuance. the greater polarization, ironic, also makes for less room for fringe parties.  democrats and republicans has, in recent years, assumed political territory once reserved for non-traditional parties. even so, most folks will recognize a spectrum w/I the major parties and a kinda middle ground where the two parties is more similar than dissimilar.

 

the problem for libertarians (in particular) is two-fold:

 

1) the libertarian party doesn't have enough presence

 

if you only have a handful o' identifiable and recognizable candidates and office holders, then the potential for recognizable nuance is extreme limited.  a small handful o' visible libertarian men and women has admitted not done a particular good job o' distinguishing themselves on national topics at the heart o' national elections, which leaves the public with only the generalities.

 

2) nuance requires numbers

 

short o' gary johnson suffering from mpd, the libertarian presidential candidates had no spectrum o' viewpoints. one viewpoint.  is too few visible national libertarians to claim noteworthy nuance. 

 

ultimately, what is the point? the single most identifiable democratic socialist in the country at the moment ran as a member o' the democratic socialist party?  nope, she ran as a democrat. alexandria ocasio cortez ran as a democrat.  she self-identified as part o' the democrat spectrum.  and libertarians, for years, has as often as not been running as democrats or republicans... particular at the national level.  after all, what distinguishes libertarians from democrats and republicans, as much as anything else, is lack of a national agenda.  again, national politics is almost antithetical to the core values o' libertarians, so run for US national office is necessarily adopting republican or democrat platform goals... even if nuanced. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Hurlshort]

Here you go:

 

1) derp - Used as a substitute for speech regarded as meaningless or stupid, or to comment on a foolish or stupid action.

2) fish or cut bait - To come to a decision point: either commit to what you're doing, or give it up entirely.

 

The struggle really is real with you. Even your Google is broken! Conversation, and life in general, will be much clearer for you if you simply focus on the text or words that are presented to you, NOT what your little angry inner monologue (a long and typically tedious speech by one person during a conversation) decides to fabricate.

 

Look, I'm trying to just focus on the words and the text you are putting up here. It reads to me as insulting and condescending. Please let me know if I'm wrong.

[Gfted1]

Lol sweet obliviousness. It might be entertaining to waste time bringing you up to speed...but that should have already happened in subsequent poster comments...so its obviously never going to happen. Back to bait cutting (see above) for me.

[ktchong]

Here is Jason Kessler, 34-year-old White nationalist, alt-right leader, and organizer of the "Unite the Right" rally:

 

 

 

... who is 34-year-old and still lives in his parent's home.  Got busted when he got yelled at by his father (i.e., "I want this to stop! Get out of your room!") when he was live-streaming on YouTube:

 

 

 

L-O-S-E-R.

Edited August 15, 2018 by ktchong

[Gfted1]

You are so so mean for attacking another person due to their economic status. *nod*

[HoonDing]

Don't trust anybody who at one point in their lives has either taken a selfie or held a selfie stick.

[Hurlshort]

edit: I don't really get it, but I'm going to just drop it. 

Edited August 15, 2018 by Hurlshot

[SonicMage117]

Hmm..

 

Tomi Lahren is a conservative/rightist who didn't move out her parent's house til last year, for the last 5 years she's been making more than most small business owners (still is). Now she has her own house though, a big house in NY I believe? Chances are, she put every bit she earned into the bank and saved it for the house she owns now.

 

Margot Robbie, the hollywood actress, still doesn't have a driver's license (never did in Australia either) or own a car but makes millions of dollars.

 

I had a 40 yo neighbor who lived with their parents just because she got stuck having to help them take care of their mentally/physically disabled daughter.

 

 

Point being, sometimes we just don't know what's going on, living with parents often doesn't have anything to do with finances or laziness but strategic choice. If your place burns down due to an accident such as leaving a fan plugged in while you go to the store and the circuit getting fried on some chance of an electrical current surge or ehat have you, chances are you would rather go to a family members' place than a hotel (if you're smart that is).

 

The stereotypes of "living with mommy and daddy" are no less silly than that of the "oh you're a gamer who lives in your parent's basement" but again, it's the internet and we know everything by assuming everything. Discredit all possible variables, forget logic, deny reason, raise your pitchforks and attack!

 

^It's always funner that way anayway.

Edited August 15, 2018 by SonicMage117

[majestic]

Hmm..

 

Tomi Lahren is a conservative/rightist who didn't move out her parent's house til last year, for the last 5 years she's been making more than most small business owners (still is). Now she has her own house though, a big house in NY I believe? Chances are, she put every bit she earned into the bank and saved it for the house she owns now.

 

Margot Robbie, the hollywood actress, still doesn't have a driver's license (never did in Australia either) or own a car but makes millions of dollars.

 

I had a 40 yo neighbor who lived with their parents just because she got stuck having to help them take care of their mentally/physically disabled daughter.

 

 

Point being, sometimes we just don't know what's going on, living with parents often doesn't have anything to do with finances or laziness but strategic choice. If your place burns down due to an accident such as leaving a fan plugged in while you go to the store and the circuit getting fried on some chance of an electrical current surge or ehat have you, chances are you would rather go to a family members' place than a hotel (if you're smart that is).

 

The stereotypes of "living with mommy and daddy" are no less silly than that of the "oh you're a gamer who lives in your parent's basement" but again, it's the internet and we know everything by assuming everything. Discredit all possible variables, forget logic, deny reason, raise your pitchforks and attack!

 

^It's always funner that way anayway.

 

 

Well color me orange and call me sunkist, I find myself agreeing.

 

edit:

 

Edit to clarify I'm not agreeing with our pre-moderated Polish lovebunny.

Edited August 15, 2018 by majestic

[HoonDing]

"Tomi Lahren" is a Finnish F1-pilot.

[SonicMage117]

The version I'm speaking of is the Fox News contributor, I should have been more specific, the error is mine for not clarifying further.

 

Edited August 15, 2018 by SonicMage117

[Tagaziel]

While I get that the second part is sarcasm, I would say Trump is more anarcho-capitalist than libertarian. While I really only remember Gary Johnson for his position on marjuana, his isolationism, and constant gaffes, his policies on wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Gary_Johnson are pretty obviously not Trump. He's actually pro-EPA, just thinks that the government shouldn't subsidize (or bail out) renewable energy. Though interestingly, he seems to think that the government should prop up fossil fuel industries...

Which tells you all about him. I'll guess: Hang on the oil-infused teat, screw the environment, pocket money from corporations who would benefit from a libertarian policy?

 

Trump is more of an unprincipled moron from where I'm sitting, doing whatever he thinks will earn him acclaim and popularity, without bruising his own ego.

[Gfted1]

These responses make no sense. Can you clarify?

 

A. Yes, I am insulting you in a condescending tone.

 

B. No, it is not my intention to insult and condescend.

 

Look, at no point am I intentionally being condescending or insulting. I'm seriously asking you to clarify certain statements, and you seem to be just avoiding that. Which is fine, but I think you are better than that. 

 

Do you see this as an unfriendly conversation? I mean, there are certain people here who I don't waste time debating with, because they seem more interested in being right than having a conversation. I've never really seen you in that way, but I'm getting the impression you see me in that way? Am I correct?

 

These are actual questions. Again, not trying to bait. You don't have to answer, of course, but I don't see how that benefits either of us.

Fair enough, Ill give it one more hack:

 

1) You come to some conclusion about my post that nobody else does and then try to twist it to besmirch me.

2) Confronted on that point, you suddenly lose command of your native language AND the ability to look anything up.

3) You "liked" Amentep's post in which he clearly understands my post and provides a counterpoint, but still somehow cant understand my point.

3) Yes, I am mocking point 2 and disappointed in point 1.

 

So, I found your claims of "me no understandy" to be disingenuous. But Im glad to see I was wrong. :brofist:

 

EDIT: Lordy, shes a smokeshow.

[SonicMage117]

Yeah! I mean, I may be married but I always considered Tomi to be a looker and a brainy. I still have a few celebrity crushes

[Malcador]

Americans have odd taste.

 

Bunch of people that have been mean to Trump lost their security clearances, for some reason Flynn didn't. Wonder how much that matters in any case.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Malcador