Political Thread XX

[Guard Dog]

"Dispute not with her, she is a lunatic"

 

William Shakespeare, Richard III

 

http://reason.com/blog/2018/08/10/angry-woman-calls-cops-on-state-senator

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Well, it's the internet and sadly that means everything within the realm of google or youtube is true. Even worse, if you hear/read something bad about someone you don't like then it's automatically true so people won't do research unless it's from a regular biased source.

 

reality has a well-known liberal bias

[Malcador]

This thread proves if you try hard enough you can live in your own reality

[213374U]

Anyway, tread lightly with this topic. If you guys start throwing links and shaming victims without proof, I will delete it and that will be a one-way ticket to moderated status. Zero tolerance.

 

I really hope I'm misunderstanding what you meant by this. Because if it means you're going to start letting your political views -and this extends to what you believe one should or should not be allowed to say- affect your work as moderator, beyond what the guidelines provide for, that is going to make the forum... a worse place.

 

Fighting the never-ending tide of bull**** is tiresome, I get it. That does not warrant you using your position to advance an agenda. If you are too tired, ask for a time-out. Doubly so if this is an issue that affects you personally. I hope you understand that after your post, your ability to remain objective can be compromised in the eyes of some. Do not take the easy way out and crack down on those who are in the "wrong", please.

[Tagaziel]

I really hope I'm misunderstanding what you mean by your post, but are you seriously arguing that rape apologists should be given a voice?

[Guard Dog]

Moderators do not have to be objective. They are posters with opinions like everyone else. Their job is to enforce the rules of the forum. If somebody violates those rules TN, Gfted, whomever will do something about it. Now as to whether or not one of those rules were actually violated, I couldn’t say. I don’t recall ever having actually read them.

[SonicMage117]

Wait.... what the hell?

 

Who here is a rape apologist?

 

You guys are acting like someone here is "defending" rape when that isn't the case at all. You'd better know what you're saying before you say it. Someone saying that evidence should be provided or that judges should provide the accused with a thorough investogation isn't even close to beong a rape apologists so I'd appreciate if people stop twisting and maniputimg things to make the other side look bad.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh... Nevermind, this is 2018... I forgot, people seem to have new definitions for everything, continue

[Chilloutman]

Wait.... what the hell?

 

Who here is a rape apologist?

 

You guys are acting like someone here is "defending" rape when that isn't the case at all. You'd better know what you're saying before you say it. Someone saying that evidence should be provided or that judges should provide the accused with a thorough investogation isn't even close to beong a rape apologists so I'd appreciate if people stop twisting and maniputimg things to make the other side look bad.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh... Nevermind, this is 2018... I forgot, people seem to have new definitions for everything, continue

 

Sometimes you make sense and then you state that Tylor Swift is great artists, I never know with you...

[SonicMage117]

Sometimes you make sense and then you state that Tylor Swift is great artists, I never know with you...

LOL! Shut up wesley!!!

[Malcador]

And no, it's not really possible for a prostitute or porn star to get raped "on the job" - excluding child sex trafficking of course, Do you have any evidence of this in a case (something not by word of mouth or a youtuber with a nonchalant opinion perhaps) that an adult industry porn star or prostitute gets raped on the job? Although I do agree that most prostitutes do get raped in their lifetime but that doesn't count for their actions or choices on the job, that's common sense but keep in mind that after being forced into submission, it becomes accepted and they get used to it, therefore it becomes the only thing they know, thus thereby it's normal for them. Do you think any prostitute wants to... ya know, prostitute? It's also common sense that most prostitutes suffer physical abuse, pimps or madames usually beat their prostitutes when they don't meet quota. Even so, those statistics have nothing to do with what they experience with on the job.

 

 

Granted that seems to be at odds with the later part of the paragraph, so maybe you had a stroke or something.

[Malcador]

"Dispute not with her, she is a lunatic"

 

William Shakespeare, Richard III

 

http://reason.com/blog/2018/08/10/angry-woman-calls-cops-on-state-senator

 

"New York state Sen. Jesse Hamilton (D-20)"

 

Guess she didn't like....the way he rolls.

[Blarghagh]

 

Anyway, tread lightly with this topic. If you guys start throwing links and shaming victims without proof, I will delete it and that will be a one-way ticket to moderated status. Zero tolerance.

I really hope I'm misunderstanding what you meant by this. Because if it means you're going to start letting your political views -and this extends to what you believe one should or should not be allowed to say- affect your work as moderator, beyond what the guidelines provide for, that is going to make the forum... a worse place.

 

Fighting the never-ending tide of bull**** is tiresome, I get it. That does not warrant you using your position to advance an agenda. If you are too tired, ask for a time-out. Doubly so if this is an issue that affects you personally. I hope you understand that after your post, your ability to remain objective can be compromised in the eyes of some. Do not take the easy way out and crack down on those who are in the "wrong", please.

This warning is meant to discourage the naming and shaming behaviour that got the #GamerGate and politics threads banned before - which was not my decision - so that's always been the place you're in.

[213374U]

I really hope I'm misunderstanding what you mean by your post, but are you seriously arguing that rape apologists should be given a voice?

 

His post was about "shaming" victims, though, which is a rather nebulous a term and, in my opinion, a terrible basis for policy. It's also not covered by the forum rules as far as I can tell.

 

And regarding whether or not someone should be allowed to speak, my answer is going to depend on what you mean by rape apology (because I suspect we're not on the same page regarding that) and on whether that is an open question or rather one in the context of the forum. If the latter, it's a moot point because the guidelines determine what is and what is not acceptable, and the guidelines can be changed at any time without explanation. That being said, I do believe moderators should be afforded minimal leeway to interpret the rules.

 

 

@GD did I say moderators cannot have or express personal opinions? I said they shouldn't let their personal opinions color their work as moderators. I was in agreement with TN's post up until the quoted paragraph, which arguably I may have misunderstood. But I certainly do not want this place to become just another subreddit or an extension of the Paradox forum.

[213374U]

This warning is meant to discourage the naming and shaming behaviour that got the #GamerGate and politics threads banned before - which was not my decision - so that's always been the place you're in.

Guess I missed that. I steered clear of the GG thread but I don't recall the politics thread ever being banned. Do you have specific examples? We can continue this over PM if you'd prefer.

[HoonDing]

What's GamerGate?

 

(srs)

[SonicMage117]

Granted that seems to be at odds with the later part of the paragraph, so maybe you had a stroke or something.

If you get sexually assaulted/raped when performing or prostituting, then you are no longer performing or prostituting but a victim by force, therefore it's not possible while "on the job". People seem to have forgotten that prostituting and performing is different from being a bagger at a grocery store or any non-sexual related job (I am now excluding contract differentiation as well). With that said, I still stand by my comment.

 

But how would that be linked to me defending rapists in any way? How is Gifted1 saying "Innocent til proven guilty" make him a rapist apologist? The internet is a funny place and again, it's moments on threads like these where non-members will look and not take the forum seriously anymore.

 

I do believe every rapist should be caught with and dealt with accordingly, as any other crime should be, there is no exception whether a murderer, thief, pedophile, drug pusher, etc. But as with other crimes, the court should treat sexual harrasment and rape the same as any other crime, rape victims aren't any more special than victims/families of murder cases and so on so not sure why people are saying that word of mouth makes anything justifiably worth condemnation. It just doesn't seem realistic and I'm glad we're not there in the systems.

Edited August 14, 2018 by SonicMage117

[Agiel]

Firefighter from Utah dies battling Mendocino Complex, the largest wildfire in California

 

Trump _COULD_ go to California to be the comforter-in-chief, as presidents both Republican and Democrat before him have done in such occasions, but by all means he can play "He-Said, She-Said" with Omarosa. God knows those two friggin' deserve each other.

[Blarghagh]

 

This warning is meant to discourage the naming and shaming behaviour that got the #GamerGate and politics threads banned before - which was not my decision - so that's always been the place you're in.

Guess I missed that. I steered clear of the GG thread but I don't recall the politics thread ever being banned. Do you have specific examples? We can continue this over PM if you'd prefer.

I'd have to look it up when I get home - I'm using the mobile version from a passenger seat - but essentially at the time the GamerGate stuff got closed and people moved it to the politics threads. It was right after the Sexy Women threads got closed by decree above us mods.

 

But essentially what I'm saying, though I'll admit I was a bit too nebulous, is use common sense, don't use the forum as a platform to direct harassment at specific people. News articles are fine, directing to personal twitter accounts of abuse and going 'look at this lying bitch' is not (and definitely would fall under either our harassment, objectionable content or discrimination guidelines). That's the kind of stuff that got those threads closed.

 

Hope that clarifies the concern.

 

Edit: Mobile version cut out the quote.

[Malcador]

 

Granted that seems to be at odds with the later part of the paragraph, so maybe you had a stroke or something.

If you get sexually assaulted/raped when performing or prostituting, then you are no longer performing or prostituting but a victim by force, therefore it's not possible while "on the job". People seem to have forgotten that prostituting and performing is different from being a bagger at a grocery store or any non-sexual related job (I am now excluding contract differentiation as well). With that said, I still stand by my comment.

 

But how would that be linked to me defending rapists in any way? How is Gifted1 saying "Innocent til proven guilty" make him a rapist apologist? The internet is a funny place and again, it's moments on threads like these where non-members will look and not take the forum seriously anymore.

 

I do believe every rapist should be caught with and dealt with accordingly, as any other crime should be, there is no exception whether a murderer, thief, pedophile, drug pusher, etc. But as with other crimes, the court should treat sexual harrasment and rape the same as any other crime, rape victims aren't any more special than victims/families of murder cases and so on so not sure why people are saying that word of mouth makes anything justifiably worth condemnation. It just doesn't seem realistic and I'm glad we're not there in the systems.

What a bizarre set of semantics to reach the conclusion of yours I quoted. So they can't be raped on the job if it occurs while on the job it somehow changes the nature of the job. Okay.

[SonicMage117]

Hmmm... Well, you are no longer working if you are struggling for your life and these are not job hazzards/risks. Sure, they may get paid at the end and people can insult them by saying they were still working because they got the paycheck but they didn't want to be there and were forced into some kind of sexual act, this isn't a fake it til you make it kind of thing. It's stranger that people believe that the rape could be a part of the job and that rape would be so lightly accepted within the adult industry... especially considering how organized and professional it is. If you're a name, everyone knows everyone, it's almost a small town - at least that's how it opetates in the americas. I'm not sure how the porn indistry operates outside of the americas though.

[Gfted1]

" diddled my years ago, I swear. Get em, Twitter!"  This is the world we live in. smh.

[Hurlshort]

"<X> diddled my <Y> <Z+10> years ago, I swear. Get em, Twitter!"  This is the world we live in. smh.

 

What percentage of these accusations do you think are false?

 

Every study I've seen (we cover this stuff every year in education, I just did my mandated reporter class) indicates that abuse is extremely underreported. 

 

On a related note, we watched an interesting video about how empathy drives innovation. Here is an article about it: https://bigthink.com/think-tank/is-innovation-a-result-of-emotional-skills-or-math-and-science-training

[Gfted1]

What percentage of these accusations do you think are fals

 

Dunno, my metaphysical powers are on the fritz. As such I am forced to operate in a world where I prefer the provable to the unprovable.

 

 

BUT! let me guess. The prevailing opinion round these parts is that these accusations are approximately 358% absolute truth? *nodnod*

[Blarghagh]

" diddled my years ago, I swear. Get em, Twitter!" This is the world we live in. smh.

That "Get em, Twitter!" part of it, though. I've seen that, but I've also seen literal nobodies barely hint at something and Twitter deciding to go after it all on its own. How much agency rests with who for outrage culture?

[Hurlshort]

 

Dunno, my metaphysical powers are on the fritz. As such I am forced to operate in a world where I prefer the provable to the unprovable.

 

 

There are studies on this though, you don't have to guess. 2-6% seems to be the answer. Unreported cases are estimated at around to be around 70-90%, depending on the type.

 

https://theconversation.com/heres-the-truth-about-false-accusations-of-sexual-violence-88049

 

So yeah, we aren't exactly on the level with this stuff.