Political Thread XX

[ShadySands]

Wow

[SonicMage117]

Wow

Thank you

[Tagaziel]

Well that's the whole point of the Presumption of Innocence. Is it exactly opposite in Poland?

FYI, I graduated law. The point of presumption of innocence is that you do not treat the person as guilty until a sentence is passed by a competent court.

 

The point isn't "treat accusers as spreading lies and slander until they prove their case" or "ignore the fact that rape is considered shameful to the victim in popular culture, leading you to magnify the suffering of the victim by disbelieving them". Seriously, it's bad enough to be a victim of sexual assault as is without people doubting whether you can be raped at all based on your work, doing it just to get cash, or otherwise implying you're a whore with no morals because you were sexually assaulted.

 

I see it as a serious matter I see it as a joke.

Yeah, you're not worth the time to respond.

[Elerond]

 

 

Pretty much as I said, there are contracts. That is also why it's very rare that you hear of a porn star getting sexually assaulted by a customer. Not only does it not make sense but when it hapoens there is more often a motive than not. I'm still waiting for Stormy to show that contract of submission, doubt it will ever surface because it's more likely that she got lazy and just took the money anyway.

Porn stars don't have customers, as their job is act explixcit sexual acts for film (although there are quite lot rape scandals in porn industry where actresses say they were raped on the set). It is quite common that prostitutes get raped by people prententing to hire them (studies says that about 50% of prostitutes in US say that they have raped at least once during their life time and over 70% says that they have faced other forms of physical violence), which is why prostitutes have invented lots of ways to protect themselves. Porn stars sometimes also work as prostitutes/escorts. Stormy Daniel don't accuse Trump of sexual assault or claim that Trump paid her for sex, in her case scandal is that Trump paid her sush money before election in order to prevent Stormy to tell press about her affair with Trump. There is also accusations of Trump breaking agreement between them, which is why Stormy claims that she has now right to talk about mentioned affair.

Porn Stars do have customers, same as prostitutes or strippers. I'm not sure where you get the idea that they don't, Is it because they call their customers "clients" instead? Moreover, all porn stars (professional ones) have contracts, whether with a company brand or people who hire them for discreet meetings. This is only an exception because it's the President.

 

And no, it's not really possible for a prostitute or porn star to get raped "on the job" - excluding child sex trafficking of course, Do you have any evidence of this in a case (something not by word of mouth or a youtuber with a nonchalant opinion perhaps) that an adult industry porn star or prostitute gets raped on the job? Although I do agree that most prostitutes do get raped in their lifetime but that doesn't count for their actions or choices on the job, that's common sense but keep in mind that after being forced into submission, it becomes accepted and they get used to it, therefore it becomes the only thing they know, thus thereby it's normal for them. Do you think any prostitute wants to... ya know, prostitute? It's also common sense that most prostitutes suffer physical abuse, pimps or madames usually beat their prostitutes when they don't meet quota. Even so, those statistics have nothing to do with what they experience with on the job.

 

And lastly, I wasn't the one who said Stormy Daniels accused Dinald Trump of sexual harassment or anything of the sort, I replied to someone who said she did but my comments make valid points all the same. A contract between Stormy and the President would have been more than enough to verify the accounts on both ends. In the event of the rare cases that something like this happens, a contract is usually brought before a judge for appeal

 

 

Porn stars don't have either customers or "clients", because they get paid for acting sexual acts with other porn stars who are also paid for their acting. If they get paid for having sex with customers or "clients" as you put it then they aren't working as porn stars but as prostitutes.

 

I have doubts that you understand what rape is if you don't think that prostitutes or porn stars can be raped on the job. Because even though they agreed to perform certain sexual act in certain conditions it does not mean that they aren't sometimes forced to perfom sexual acts which they didn't agreed on.

 

Here some links about alleged rapes/sexual abuses on porn sets.

https://fightthenewdrug.org/youre-gonna-be-a-star-my-career-as-an-abused-porn-performer/

https://www.thedailybeast.com/a-famous-porn-star-claims-she-was-raped-on-set-will-she-receive-justice

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/dec/04/how-stoya-took-on-james-deen-and-broke-the-porn-industrys-silence

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/porn-star-nikki-benz-brazzers-rape-scene-non-consensual-sexual-assault-adult-film-jenna-jameson-a7489966.html

https://jezebel.com/porn-actors-leigh-raven-and-riley-nixon-allege-abuse-v-1823677195

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3346545/He-drugged-abused-raped-Farrah-Abraham-claims-traumatized-porn-star-James-Deen-forced-undergo-intensive-therapy.html

https://www.covenanteyes.com/2011/10/30/raped-on-the-set-one-ex-porn-star-tells-her-story-of-abuse/

https://verilymag.com/2015/08/porn-industry-playboy-mansion-sex-trafficking-belle-knox-rashida-jones-holly-madison

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/james-deen-accusers-face-backlash--but-porn-stars-can-be-rape-victims-too/2015/12/07/f7a40f84-9cfb-11e5-bce4-708fe33e3288_story.html?utm_term=.a6e00289a81f

[SonicMage117]

Yeah, you're not worth the time to respond.

Yeah, you still did. And I meant to say "You see it as a serious matter, I see it as a joke" but people can't make mistakes right? My superior intellect tells me that you weren't able to take note so good luck!

 

It is rare. Extremely rare. You're making it appear as though it's more common than it ought to be. The porn industry is a serious business. Period, and far more organized than people care to admit. Edited August 13, 2018 by SonicMage117

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Wow

 

surely you mean "lol"

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Wow

 

 

surely you mean "lol"

The idea people who sell sex can't get raped is to common irl to be funny. Even if it's coming from a Superior! video game forum personality.

[SonicMage117]

Hey man, that's why I, the enigma am here

 

But if it's forced than the person isn't prostituting or performing anymore so....

Edited August 13, 2018 by SonicMage117

[Gfted1]

@Tagaziel: Im not having a go at you, I just don't know what you know about the US. And we should absolutely presume accusers are "full of crap" until they, or the judicial system, proves otherwise. Imo.

[213374U]

Well that's the whole point of the Presumption of Innocence. Is it exactly opposite in Poland?

 

Did you read the link you posted? It's literally the third line:

 

"In many states, presumption of innocence is a legal right of the accused in a criminal trial,"

 

This means it's an important principle for the court to consider. There is no presumption of innocence outside of a court of law because we're not handing out sentences; yet surprisingly, this is not at odds with the healthy habit of skepticism. Moreover, assuming that the person making the accusation has no credibility because XYZ is actually the opposite of "presumption of innocence", as it implicitly carries an assumption of ulterior motives on the accuser's part, as their accusations are taken to be false by default. Unproven =/= false.

 

But really, this is pretty silly.

 

System.out.println(str.replaceAll("victim", "alleged victim"))

Edited August 13, 2018 by 213374U

[Malcador]

Wow

I miss oby

[SonicMage117]

@Tagaziel: Im not having a go at you, I just don't know what you know about the US. And we should absolutely presume accusers are "full of crap" until they, or the judicial system, proves otherwise. Imo.

Well, it's the internet and sadly that means everything within the realm of google or youtube is true. Even worse, if you hear/read something bad about someone you don't like then it's automatically true so people won't do research unless it's from a regular biased source. All other info is irrelevant as it doesn't bemefit their stance on such. Nevermind the fact that people don't quite understand busuness or law in correct context.

 

This is why the forums are fun but even more useless than chatting politics in real life. It's far more interesting to talk with people face to face where you get to see what they really know without delay, aid of other biased members or the help of random internet/google as it were. There's no reason for non-members to take these comments too seriously for that reason alone.

[Volourn]

"As for the idea that you shouldn't believe accusers"

 

It is not about believing or not believing. It is about getting the facts. I've seen 'both sides'. I've seen someone falsely accused and the damage it can do and I've seen someone who got sexually assaulted and got no justice. It is about FACTS. But, I get it. FACTS and EVIDENCE are TRIGGER words in 2018.

 

 

 

As for the silly 'sex workers can't be sexually assaulted/raped' nonsense.

 

I echo all the people going WOW. That is some delusional idiocy that only  SJW Nazi can think of.

[smjjames]

As for the silly 'sex workers can't be sexually assaulted/raped' nonsense.

 

I echo all the people going WOW. That is some delusional idiocy that only  SJW Nazi can think of.

 

I thought that had echoes of 'legitimate rape' (as said by a few Republican politicians) when I read that.

[SonicMage117]

I would be more inclined to admit the other side was right if we did have facts ad evidence. For now it's the word of "Oh I got sexually assaulted" again, that could mean anything. I love TayTays but even she played the card and used it as a joke. So many people do, that's probably moreso why it's that much harder for forumites to convince someone so enlightened and wise as myself.

 

If people are going to blame something, blame the #MeToo movement before the accused, or at least consider it - we are in 2018 after all and if they do not like me saying such a thing, then blame the "victim" feminists/liberals/hard leftists who have turned the words "sexual assault" and "rape" unto a petty joke to be used in manners as right now on this thread where people are not treating it properly. I didn't mean to trigger anyone here but I said what everyone was thinking anyway. Yes, my higher intellect, well you will all do well to acknowledge it.

 

As far as getting raped/sexually assaulted on the job, as I said if it's happening then they are no longer performing/prostituting. This isn't really hard to grasp. Next members here will tell me that porn stars don't get sponsorships lol

 

And yes. I know of a few people who got raped, I didn't "see" it happen but I was present at the case to see the guy get put away for some time since it was on multiple accounts to his record. The evidence was overwhelming (blood, dry/wet ****, force of entry into the anal cavity, saliva, etc. Anything to match up dna)

 

So, this isn't really a game but something people should make themselves aware of. If course if there is no proof/evidece then we are not likely to see justice served but perhaps women should be smarter and come forward the day after so that the evidence can be obtained. That is a harsh thing to say but I'm just being honest. Once you shower, it's much harder to prove.

 

Ummm... Hopefully that doesn't offend the sensitive here Now behold my awesome, magnificent GENIUS!!! Welcome back to reality folks...

Edited August 14, 2018 by SonicMage117

[smjjames]

*bits and whatever about intelligence and genius and praising*

 

*shines a golden light at sonicmages intelligence* Now you're as smart as Trump! Only side effect is that your hair now matches Trumps hairdo. lol (joking around with you)

[SonicMage117]

 

MOAR NUKES!!!!

[Gromnir]

 

Wow

I miss oby

 

 

if the obsidian boards has a rogue's gallery, it is far closer to 

 

http://www.thetick.ws/tvvillains.html

 

than 

 

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Batman_Villains

 

HA! Good Fun!

[SonicMage117]

You would be the Human Ton and Handy for sure!!! (Since you say "We" instead of "I" hehe) Master Guardian would be the Octo guy, Achilles would be the Hotel Manager and Boerer would be the Man-Eatimg Cow

 

I'm still stuck in the DC verse, I'm The Riddler, even the avatar lines up - as well as my logic.

[Tagaziel]

@Tagaziel: Im not having a go at you, I just don't know what you know about the US.

Enough to affect my sleeping patterns.

 

And we should absolutely presume accusers are "full of crap" until they, or the judicial system, proves otherwise. Imo.

That's disadvantaging victims even more than they already are, mate. 213374U is spot-on.

 

Of course, I'm not saying the system is actually fair. Reporting instances of sexual abuse is plagued with people assuming you are full of ****, that you actually enjoyed it, that you couldn't be raped (because you're male), and so on and so forth.

 

It is not about believing or not believing. It is about getting the facts. I've seen 'both sides'. I've seen someone falsely accused and the damage it can do and I've seen someone who got sexually assaulted and got no justice. It is about FACTS. But, I get it. FACTS and EVIDENCE are TRIGGER words in 2018.

 

Not really, no. If you cared about facts and evidence, you'd keep in mind the fact that the current culture is heavily prejudiced against rape victims, making it difficult to even report it, and false rape accusations are rare as a result. But I guess that doesn't stop you from indulging in a little bit of ultrafalseequivalence.

 

I echo all the people going WOW. That is some delusional idiocy that only  SJW Nazi can think of.

Vollie, take your pills. Remember that this delusional idiocy is the domain of the right-wing. Do I really need to remind you of the many, many instances where eg. Republicans demonstrated absolute contempt for women by arguing they eg. can't get pregnant from rape?

[SonicMage117]

Lol! #Triggered

 

The thread needeth to be renamed "Politics Thread - Rape Edition".

 

 

 

But in all seriousness, there's good reason for court systems to be cautious about rape cases. If only you guys knew just how many women made a false case just to spite their ex or just some man they don't particularly like, far more cases than actual rape victim cases. So if anything these type of women are to blame - not the court systems. The court systems are fine but people have exploited the loopholes and thus resulted in less bs as of late.

 

Rape/Sexual Assault victims (male and females) have growing support, whether it's the #MeToo movement or other things, even social media groups so I hardly doubt that court systems treat rape victims unfairly. Court sessions are unbiased as law requires them to be, they, unlike us, can only make their decisions based off the evidence provided by either party or thereby lack of it.

 

And about targeting people based off someone's, that's the real joke on the forum. Why in the world should we just start to condemn people based off word of mouth and without evidence or a proper trial? Sure, the court systems fail at times but nothing in life is perfect. Devoiding the court system because of bitterness and playing the vigilante role is essentially making America go degress to the Wild West. An uncivilized nature for society never ends well, we need the court system and sexual assault/rape victims stand a good chance at getting justice granted they take the necessary steps to provide evidence. If we start accepting everyone's word of mouth, we'll find that alot more than 70% of women ok the planet will claim they've been sexually assaulted. As the #MeToo movement has proven but yeah, let's just trust women who claim it instead of being smart and looking at the facts because that's 2018 liberal logic. I really hope our country doesn't ever go back to that, I don't think it will in my lifetime lol

 

If I were to say I was sexually assaulted, I'm betting there would be a rejective bias to that by the community because you guys don't like me based off my comments but then if a girl confides in you guys over say, a messenger program, you may accept that as a predetermined set to reality. Boy do I hate being right all the time! :D

 

This thread really is a masterpiece!

Edited August 14, 2018 by SonicMage117

[Blarghagh]

Bear with me here, because I am doing my level best not to rage out:

 

Most women don't file charges at all.

 

Both in my personal life and through therapy I have met nearly a dozen victims, and not a single one ever filed charges. Most of them also never accused anyone in public. Of 11 women, the only one whose own family even knew was the one who was four years old and literally tied to a tree and left to die, rescued by strangers. Let that sink in, out of 11 women, this was the only one that led to a criminal investigation and no charges were filed in the end, all others had hidden it out of shame. This one could have too, but wasn't given that choice. None of them certainly ever tweeted anything.

 

My wife was a victim at nine years old, I was the very first person she told - we had already been together for six years. When my wife came out to family, my mother admitted that she was abused not once but systematically as a child as well and none of us knew. My wife's response to #MeToo was: "Why on earth would I ever broadcast it like that? Everyone would treat me different." #MeToo is only a limited and very skewed version of it, and airing something on twitter is certainly not the same as "getting support" because twitter does not actually matter.

 

I can guarantee you with 100% certainty, you know women in your life who are victims and you don't know about it. It could be the ones closest to you, it could be your wife, your mother, your sister, and they will never tell you. They will be ashamed, they will be scared, and they certainly won't feel confident enough to come out and seek justice because people will tell them they're lying attention seekers. So next time, before you go "oh I'm sure it's a lie" try to imagine what it would be like if it was them, and how you would feel if they were treated that way.

 

I used to think like you. But I've talked to enough victims to know that that's just persecution complex, a symptom of the disillusionment of the past two generations of men (which is a different problem altogether) and the truth is much, much worse than even the "loony left" makes it seem.
 

Anyway, tread lightly with this topic. If you guys start throwing links and shaming victims without proof, I will delete it and that will be a one-way ticket to moderated status. Zero tolerance.

Edited August 14, 2018 by TrueNeutral

[SonicMage117]

I'm not saying they're lying, I'm saying there's literally been many cases that have proven women to use it as lies in court to get what they want, it's become an embaressing tactic for women, even in small claims courts have women assumed the role of a rape victim in order to make the male look bad to the judge - only to get exposed later by the experienced judge of course. As said before, I too, know victims but that's only half of the side, unfortunately, since there are and have always been plenty of the women who have falsely accused men in court and on social media for ulterior motives. I'm not trying to shame any victim here, but I do believe that the women who are strong enough to go to court with evidence such as dna sample deserve the justice they want done than the women who wait since this is far too serious to be kept waiting. The sooner they get that peace of mind, the better.

 

It always struck me weird that some women wait years to gather the strength/bravery to go forward while the man who sexually assaulted them before coming forward with the truth. I'm not saying it's a lie but I imagine some here view me as a misogynistic male because I encourage women to do the right thing - go forward to the police asap with evidence to make a solid case and get the justice they seek, instead of waiting which will truthfully only damage the case.

 

For the women out there that falsely accuse out of spite or whatever false motive, they will never gain my respect. That's the part that is the joke to me. For the hurt and broken who actually did suffer the traumatic event, I would demqnd they not wait but report it asap. It's also up to the person to make a strong case, nobody else will do it for them whether they have friends or family, it doesn't matter if they are seeking justice they need to study up on what they need to do. It sounds harsh but the day does not wait.

 

But returning to politics and jumping out and away from all that stuff...

 

 

NARF!!!!

[Blarghagh]

because I encourage women to do the right thing - go forward to the police asap with evidence to make a solid case and get the justice they seek, instead of waiting which will truthfully only damage the case.

If only you guys knew just how many women made a false case [...] far more cases than actual rape victim cases.

These statements do not fit together. This will not encourage anyone to come forward.

 

Especially considering the latter being demonstrably false, false cases are a vast minority according to police data - Gromnir helped me pick the CDC (or was it WHO?) research apart here a couple of years ago, and by helped I mean he beat my misconceptions and false reading of said on the matter to a pulp so I'm not quick to forget.

Edited August 14, 2018 by TrueNeutral

[Gfted1]

Ill just leave this here: Statute of limitations.

 

I become concerned when mere accusations, completely unprovable and criminally unenforceable, can be leveraged to destroy people. I guess that's just my cross to bear.