Finally some sales evidence

[house2fly]

I wouldn't mind seeing these posts that were removed due to legal threats; so far as I know nothing like that has happened

[Guest Psychovampiric Shield]

I'm starting to think that making PoE 2 a direct sequel was probably a mistake. It says to the potential new players: Don't buy PoE 2, buy PoE 1 instead. (and POE 1 is on sale, so no big money for Obsidian).

 

DoS 2 wasn't a direct sequel so people weren't afraid they won't understand the story if they skip DoS 1.

 

Also these RPGs are big. People buy PoE 1, then months pass before they finish it. Most don't even finish it.

 

PoE 2 should have been either a prequel or set fifty years after PoE 1 events.

 

That  fifty years after variant would be optimal, because some characters could be still alive by then (Aloth almost certainly), so there would be some, but not too much continuity.

 

EDIT: ironically, also certain character that was dead by the time of Deadfire events could possibly be alive and adventure-worthy fifty years later.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Psychovampiric Shield

[thelee]

 

There is a thread on the RPG codex site where people have confirmed that the staff at Obsidian who have "left" where in fact fired because Deadfire didnt make sales targets. 

 

If you read through the thread you will also see numerous posts removed at the request of Obsidian's lawyers sending letters of demand to remove the posts.

 

 

Which thread would this actually be? Only thing I've heard is that the Director of Marketing was fired due to sales, this was a clause in his contract even.

I mean, given how relatively little buzz there has been about Deadfire, firing the director of marketing seems completely correct.

[Mallard]

I don't doubt that mistakes were with marketing Deadfire, but I would be cautious before laying all blame at their feet.
 
Sometimes, you can do everything you're supposed to, and still not succeed. Conversely, you can make every mistake in the book, and still come out on top. I can't help but think of 2016 US presidential election...
 
I like some of the proposed ideas here, but I think some of the proposed changes would be a serious mistake. If it gets the greenlight, then the next (final?) Pillars game should adhere to the following guidelines:
 
- it should be Pillars of Eternity III: Subtitle (e.g. "The Last God", "Eternity's End", "Final Rest", "Sleep for the Watcher"), not a prequel or "Pillars Tactics" or "Pillars Mobile"
 
- it should import the current character, the Watcher of Caed Nua

 

- it should conclude the Watcher's story in a satisfying way, but it can leave open the possibility of new games, with new characters, that are set in Eora

 

- it should avoid all of the mistakes made by the Mass Effect 3 ending
 
- it should be RTwP, same as Pillars 1 and Deadfire
 
- it should reuse the same graphics engine, assets, and general mechanics (please don't reinvent the wheel yet again!)
 
- it should introduce a new location, like the previous entries, but it would be great to surprise players with visits to some iconic locations from previous games

 

----------------------------------

 

e.g.

 

Caed Nua

 

Durgan's Battery

 

 

Ukaizo

 

 

----------------------------------

 

I think Obsidian probably would follow all of these guidelines for another game, the real question is whether they will have an opportunity to make it after Deadfire's commercial failure

 

[InsaneCommander]

I said that before deadfire was launched [...]

You joined after release.

 

Eh, I'm pretty sure bazoopa is the Next Iteration (does its accounts get banned or does it simply like to start over (and over and over again)? Just curious), so it's safe to disregard its opinions about, well, everything.

 

I think the newest one created another thread recently.

[-dib-]

please don't reinvent the wheel yet again!

Wouldn't that be the whole plot though?

[house2fly]

Lol, though I agree that they should reuse everything they have rather than starting from scratch again. I wouldn't mind some performance improvements, but other than that Deadfire's graphics and gameplay systems are p much good to go. More chance of avoiding bugs with familiar tech as well

[bigbazoopa]

Well Pathfinder Kingmaker is still going strong on the steam charts. Currently as we speak it is sitting on page 4 of the top sellers prior to this it was on the first page for a long time. Deadfire dropped right off the charts as soon as it was released. The popularity and unbelievable success of Kingmaker shows that the market is not fatigued with RTWP RPGS. 

 

The salient facts are that people where put off buying deadfire. These are facts. On the codex forum Fig investors have claimed that deadfire currently has only sold around 150k copies (not including backers copies) and a large portion of those sales where made when the game was discounted 30%. Deadfire cost $14,000,000 to produce with roughly $2,000,000 gifted towards that as a backer money and another $2,000,000 loaned as a debt instrument from fig investors. This is a Catastrophic financial failure that appears to have sunk the company hence the Microsoft buyout. 

[thelee]

Well Pathfinder Kingmaker is still going strong on the steam charts. Currently as we speak it is sitting on page 4 of the top sellers prior to this it was on the first page for a long time. Deadfire dropped right off the charts as soon as it was released. The popularity and unbelievable success of Kingmaker shows that the market is not fatigued with RTWP RPGS. 

 

The salient facts are that people where put off buying deadfire. These are facts. On the codex forum Fig investors have claimed that deadfire currently has only sold around 150k copies (not including backers copies) and a large portion of those sales where made when the game was discounted 30%. Deadfire cost $14,000,000 to produce with roughly $2,000,000 gifted towards that as a backer money and another $2,000,000 loaned as a debt instrument from fig investors. This is a Catastrophic financial failure that appears to have sunk the company hence the Microsoft buyout. 

 

Kingmaker has the advantage of piggybacking off of very well-known IP/game system (Pathfinder), whereas PoE even after the success of PoE1 is still a niche system.

 

Where'd you come up with the 14m budget number? Very interesting if true.

[bigbazoopa]

 

Well Pathfinder Kingmaker is still going strong on the steam charts. Currently as we speak it is sitting on page 4 of the top sellers prior to this it was on the first page for a long time. Deadfire dropped right off the charts as soon as it was released. The popularity and unbelievable success of Kingmaker shows that the market is not fatigued with RTWP RPGS. 

 

The salient facts are that people where put off buying deadfire. These are facts. On the codex forum Fig investors have claimed that deadfire currently has only sold around 150k copies (not including backers copies) and a large portion of those sales where made when the game was discounted 30%. Deadfire cost $14,000,000 to produce with roughly $2,000,000 gifted towards that as a backer money and another $2,000,000 loaned as a debt instrument from fig investors. This is a Catastrophic financial failure that appears to have sunk the company hence the Microsoft buyout. 

 

Kingmaker has the advantage of piggybacking off of very well-known IP/game system (Pathfinder), whereas PoE even after the success of PoE1 is still a niche system.

 

Where'd you come up with the 14m budget number? Very interesting if true.

 

 

Divinity Original Sin 2 did not have the advantage of " Piggy Backing" of a Dungeons and Dragons or Pathfinder type Intellectual Property and everyone knows how well DOS2 is doing so i understand your argument there but i also dismiss it as i believe the DOS2 situation has proved your point irrelevant.

 

The $14,000,000 was clarified to the fig backers by fig. There is a post buried somewhere here on this forum  where a fig backer posted it, i honestly assure you it is a correct figure.

 

Look i must clarify i am very disappointed that OBS are finished but they made unbelievably stupid school boy errors like:

 

- Shocking narrative and writing

- terrible spanish / Italian setting 

- The ship combat would have put alot of people of purchasing the game especially if they watched how it worked on youtube before deciding to purchase deadfire. I cant stress how unbelievably stupid the ship combat is.

- The re-inventing of the wheel from pillars 1 and trying to fix something that wasnt broken.

- Stupid implementations like the empower button

- The loss of vanacian casting and priests/ druids having only three spells to choose from per level. Why would you be so stupid to do this? Why restrict casters and give them less flexibility.

- Stupid problems with the level cap. You get one extra Power level compared to POE1. This is totally stupid and a bad idea.

 

If Obsidian didn't concentrate on all this crap above they could have spent there time doing other things that actually added value like adding a whole new range of new spells and abilities instead of just recycling the same ones from POE1. More story driven content should also have been a priority with cut scene animations.

[Flouride]

 

The salient facts are that people where put off buying deadfire. These are facts. On the codex forum Fig investors have claimed that deadfire currently has only sold around 150k copies (not including backers copies) and a large portion of those sales where made when the game was discounted 30%. Deadfire cost $14,000,000 to produce with roughly $2,000,000 gifted towards that as a backer money and another $2,000,000 loaned as a debt instrument from fig investors. This is a Catastrophic financial failure that appears to have sunk the company hence the Microsoft buyout. 

 

They started the buyout process before Deadfire even hit the stores. It doesn't take a genious to put 1 and 1 together on what triggered Avellone back in May.

[injurai]

 

 

The salient facts are that people where put off buying deadfire. These are facts. On the codex forum Fig investors have claimed that deadfire currently has only sold around 150k copies (not including backers copies) and a large portion of those sales where made when the game was discounted 30%. Deadfire cost $14,000,000 to produce with roughly $2,000,000 gifted towards that as a backer money and another $2,000,000 loaned as a debt instrument from fig investors. This is a Catastrophic financial failure that appears to have sunk the company hence the Microsoft buyout. 

 

They started the buyout process before Deadfire even hit the stores. It doesn't take a genious to put 1 and 1 together on what triggered Avellone back in May.

 

 

Ahh, it's all becoming clear.

[Boeroer]

 

 

Well Pathfinder Kingmaker is still going strong on the steam charts. Currently as we speak it is sitting on page 4 of the top sellers prior to this it was on the first page for a long time. Deadfire dropped right off the charts as soon as it was released. The popularity and unbelievable success of Kingmaker shows that the market is not fatigued with RTWP RPGS.

 

The salient facts are that people where put off buying deadfire. These are facts. On the codex forum Fig investors have claimed that deadfire currently has only sold around 150k copies (not including backers copies) and a large portion of those sales where made when the game was discounted 30%. Deadfire cost $14,000,000 to produce with roughly $2,000,000 gifted towards that as a backer money and another $2,000,000 loaned as a debt instrument from fig investors. This is a Catastrophic financial failure that appears to have sunk the company hence the Microsoft buyout.

Kingmaker has the advantage of piggybacking off of very well-known IP/game system (Pathfinder), whereas PoE even after the success of PoE1 is still a niche system.

 

Where'd you come up with the 14m budget number? Very interesting if true.

Divinity Original Sin 2 did not have the advantage of " Piggy Backing" of a Dungeons and Dragons or Pathfinder type Intellectual Property and everyone knows how well DOS2 is doing so i understand your argument there but i also dismiss it as i believe the DOS2 situation has proved your point irrelevant.

 

The $14,000,000 was clarified to the fig backers by fig. There is a post buried somewhere here on this forum where a fig backer posted it, i honestly assure you it is a correct figure.

 

Look i must clarify i am very disappointed that OBS are finished but they made unbelievably stupid school boy errors like:

 

- Shocking narrative and writing

- terrible spanish / Italian setting

- The ship combat would have put alot of people of purchasing the game especially if they watched how it worked on youtube before deciding to purchase deadfire. I cant stress how unbelievably stupid the ship combat is.

- The re-inventing of the wheel from pillars 1 and trying to fix something that wasnt broken.

- Stupid implementations like the empower button

- The loss of vanacian casting and priests/ druids having only three spells to choose from per level. Why would you be so stupid to do this? Why restrict casters and give them less flexibility.

- Stupid problems with the level cap. You get one extra Power level compared to POE1. This is totally stupid and a bad idea.

 

If Obsidian didn't concentrate on all this crap above they could have spent there time doing other things that actually added value like adding a whole new range of new spells and abilities instead of just recycling the same ones from POE1. More story driven content should also have been a priority with cut scene animations.

You use "stupid" for a lot of things that are just different. That weakens your argument.

 

If you could ever learn to present your arguments in a more mature manner people wouldn't dismiss them so quickly - because I think you make some points here and most of the decision that were made and that you mention I also don't agree with. I think they didn't help the game at all. But did they lead to bad sales?

 

I was one of those who dismissed the ship combat as unlikeable right from the start. And while I don't think it's terrible or stupid I also believe that it's nothing one can be proud of or what attracts customers.

 

Changing the whole mechanics and "reinventing the wheel" was my biggest point of criticism (loss of talents, too few passives - you couldn't rebuild your Watcher on many cases). I don't think that this puts off a ton of people because this isn't obvious stuff you notice when looking at the game in the shelf - but it surely doesn't help as well.

 

Writing wasn't reviewed as bad.

 

Empower Button might not keep one single customer from buying the game.

 

All in all I think one shouldn't take everything one doesn't like and name it as reason for low sales numbers. Per-rest was one of the biggest criticisms of the first game and got changed just because of this. Can this be a reason for low sales numbers? I don't think so although I don't like the change.

 

But I still believe that most of those gameplay related things you listed don't explain what put off that many people - because you actually need to play the game to experience this and this usually means you bought it. Also they were done because of criticism to PoE. It's hardly stupid wanting to address the biggest gripes with PoE a lot of people seemed to have had.

 

Other stuff like the setting (there is no italian or spanish setting but I get what you mean) is very obvious and can lead to a repelling of many people with very little efford.

 

Imagine mechanics of Deadfire within a setting in Aedyr or Raedceras which are more like traditional fantasy. I strongly believe that it would have sold a lot better.

 

DOS and Pathfinder have traditional settings. Deadfire has not. But the setting is very visible even for non-buyers.

 

Pathfinder KM had little marketing. Pathfinder KM has millions of bugs and bad translation. Pathfinder has had huge balancing and difficulty issues. All those didn't stop it. It has a classical setting though.

 

Bold move with the whole pirate theme and the colonisation stuff and all - but I think most Western RPG players are very conservative and narrow minded with their settings. Maybe such settings would have been better for a smaller Pillars game or a DLC.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Boeroer

[bugarup]

Not sure why you want to waste your wits debating this specimen again, Boeroer. Just let it feel vindicated because, as it thinks, the sole reason that Obsidian went down is because they failed to match its very restrictive ("Baldurz Gate 2 is perfection!!!!1!") personal set of expectations; for its types it's always "did not cater to me to the last letter = objectively bad" and any attempt to have a rational discussion is doomed beforehand. Maybe then it'll stop posting the same thing again and again. 

 

 

...bleh, who am I kidding. No cure for obsession this unhealthy. 

[bigbazoopa]

Not sure why you want to waste your wits debating this specimen again, Boeroer. Just let it feel vindicated because, as it thinks, the sole reason that Obsidian went down is because they failed to match its very restrictive ("Baldurz Gate 2 is perfection!!!!1!") personal set of expectations; for its types it's always "did not cater to me to the last letter = objectively bad" and any attempt to have a rational discussion is doomed beforehand. Maybe then it'll stop posting the same thing again and again. 

 

 

...bleh, who am I kidding. No cure for obsession this unhealthy. 

Thats right bro. If you pretend really hard and be extremely delusional then you can dismiss everything i say as being irrelevant because you are a fanboi first and foremost. 

 

Oh but now that the media is starting to spread the news like wildfire you may have some issues with your little head in the sand trick.

 

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEICDEMlbWtMhg3OZEsoMjWQqGQgEKhAIACoHCAown7CHCzDu8YUDMMONmAY?hl=en-AU&gl=AU&ceid=AU%3Aen

 

https://www.onlysp.com/pillars-of-eternity-ii-sales-below-expectations/

 

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiXWh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmdhbWV6b25lLmNvbS9uZXdzL2ludmVzdG9yLXNheXMtb2JzaWRpYW5zLXBpbGxhcnMtb2YtZXRlcm5pdHktMi1mbG9wcGVkLWJpZy10aW1lL9IBqgFodHRwczovL3d3dy1nYW1lem9uZS1jb20uY2RuLmFtcHByb2plY3Qub3JnL3Yvcy93d3cuZ2FtZXpvbmUuY29tL25ld3MvaW52ZXN0b3Itc2F5cy1vYnNpZGlhbnMtcGlsbGFycy1vZi1ldGVybml0eS0yLWZsb3BwZWQtYmlnLXRpbWUvYW1wLz9hbXBfanNfdj0wLjEjd2Vidmlldz0xJmNhcD1zd2lwZQ?hl=en-AU&gl=AU&ceid=AU%3Aen

 

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiTmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmdhbWVwdXIuY29tL25ld3MvMzAyMjMtY2hyaXMtYXZlbGxvbmUtbWljcm9zb2Z0LWZpcmUtb2JzaWRpYW4uaHRtbNIBmgFodHRwczovL3d3dy1nYW1lcHVyLWNvbS5jZG4uYW1wcHJvamVjdC5vcmcvdi9zL3d3dy5nYW1lcHVyLmNvbS9uZXdzLzMwMjIzLWNocmlzLWF2ZWxsb25lLW1pY3Jvc29mdC1maXJlLW9ic2lkaWFuLmh0bWw_YW1wJmFtcF9qc192PTAuMSN3ZWJ2aWV3PTEmY2FwPXN3aXBl?hl=en-AU&gl=AU&ceid=AU%3Aen

 

WOW. Just expect to see more news like this over and over and over. LOL HAHAHA

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

Other stuff like the setting (there is no italian or spanish setting but I get what you mean) is very obvious and can lead to a repelling of many people with very little efford.

 

Imagine mechanics of Deadfire within a setting in Aedyr or Raedceras which are more like traditional fantasy. I strongly believe that it would have sold a lot better.

 

DOS and Pathfinder have traditional settings. Deadfire has not. But the setting is very visible even for non-buyers.

 

Pathfinder KM had little marketing. Pathfinder KM has millions of bugs and bad translation. Pathfinder has had huge balancing and difficulty issues. All those didn't stop it. It has a classical setting though.

 

Bold move with the whole pirate theme and the colonisation stuff and all - but I think most Western RPG players are very conservative and narrow minded with their settings. Make such settings would have been better for a smaller Pillars game or a DLC.

Hello, very very very long time lurker first time poster etc.

 

ye, i think is very worth noting kingmaker is a very straight drive marketing wise. it sells a v obvious fantasy. u fight to become the ruler of an archetypal fantasy kingdom. u have pretty love interests. the hardcore pathfinder fans are likely to buy it regardless of content because they want to support the ip's maiden step into crpg territory. also avellone was writing chunks of it, and regardless of what one thinks of avellone, dude aint bad at the writing thing. his name shifts units.

 

like owlcat could have screwed many many things up, and theyd still sell yay amount of copies - which is apparently whats happened.

 

with dos2, i suspect it was the gimmicky ad-friendly combat and multiplayer aspect that really pushed it over the edge. the game looks like a laugh, and it looks like it could be a laugh with ur friends while still providing a beefy single player rpg experience for those who primarily want such a thing. it gives lots of people reason to check it out.

 

obsidian have historically been awkward devils. they listen to people, but pandering to anyones fantasy has never been that high on their list. original pillars caught flack for being austere. there were no romance options in first game at all. ur romantic options in second game - and companion relationships full stop - are mostly a far cry from the band of brothers campfire chat heartfeels that people want.

 

everyone grates one way or another. xoti's nutty and needy, pally's got a massive chip on her shoulder, maia's cold-hearted, tekehus the kind of self-absorbed sad pretty boy that i guess most of the men-inclined are sick of dating. i dont list these as a criticism. peeps are like that irl. im lowkey a fan of this approach. but it aint what folk want in their escapism.

 

main plot undermines ur character as well. u lose ur kingdom and end up on a cheap pirate ship. u cant fix the deadfire in any perfect way. eothas will ultimately do what he wants. all of the factions are understandable but all have at least one major drawback that makes u feel bad for helping them. no matter what u do, theres no feelgood way trough the game.

 

it aint the first time sawyers traded in that sort of pessimism. like icewind dale 2 was just one long tragedy that was a fraction too unavoidable. i remember back in the day loads of peeps were fked off because they felt powerless in the face of it. they wanted options to change the fate of that campaign, but obv that werent the point of either the game, nor the story sawyer wanted to sell.

 

part of the reason ive followed obs all this time is that they do fk with peoples expectations. they sabotage hopes and dreams. "u think ur character can solve everything? u think u can do anything to stop a 5,695,695ft god? nah fk you, lol" - ye other franchises traffic in that sort of negatvity, but at least in them u get to stare at pretty boy geralts ass while he swaggers about getting laid.

 

i like all these curveballs that obs throw, and resistance to fanservice, but theyre definitely things that work against widespread appeal.

[Mannock]

You use "stupid" for a lot of things that are just different. That weakens your argument.

 

If you could ever learn to present your arguments in a more mature matter people wouldn't dismiss them so quickly - because I think you make some points here and most of the decision that were made and that you mention I also don't agree with. I think they didn't help the game at all. But did they lead to bad sales?

 

I was one of those who dismissed the ship combat as unlikeable right from the start. And while I don't think it's terrible or stupid I also believe that it's nothing one can be proud of or what attracts customers.

 

Changing the whole mechanics and "reinventing the wheel" was my biggest point of criticism (loss of talents, too few passives - you couldn't rebuild your Watcher on many cases). I don't think that this puts off a ton of people because this isn't obvious stuff you notice when looking at the game in the shelf - but it surely doesn't help as well.

 

Writing wasn't reviewed as bad.

 

Empower Button might not keep one single customer from buying the game.

 

All in all I think one shouldn't take everything one doesn't like and name it as reason for low sales numbers. Per-rest was one of the biggest criticisms of the first game and got changed just because of this. Can this be a reason for low sales numbers? I don't think so although I don't like the change.

 

But I still believe that most of those gameplay related things you listed don't explain what put off that many people - because you actually need to play the game to experience this and this usually means you bought it. Also they were done because of criticism to PoE. It's hardly stupid wanting to address the biggest gripes with PoE a lot of people seemed to have had.

 

Other stuff like the setting (there is no italian or spanish setting but I get what you mean) is very obvious and can lead to a repelling of many people with very little efford.

 

Imagine mechanics of Deadfire within a setting in Aedyr or Raedceras which are more like traditional fantasy. I strongly believe that it would have sold a lot better.

 

DOS and Pathfinder have traditional settings. Deadfire has not. But the setting is very visible even for non-buyers.

 

Pathfinder KM had little marketing. Pathfinder KM has millions of bugs and bad translation. Pathfinder has had huge balancing and difficulty issues. All those didn't stop it. It has a classical setting though.

 

Bold move with the whole pirate theme and the colonisation stuff and all - but I think most Western RPG players are very conservative and narrow minded with their settings. Make such settings would have been better for a smaller Pillars game or a DLC.

Great points. I agree with most of it.

 

I'd also like to chip in and say that this also resembles some of the previous games of Obsidian, for example Kotor 2 and Alpha Protocol. Games that didn't sell that well and were very criticized initially but over time got a lot of fans and complimentary articles. Maybe the fate of Deadfire will be the same.

[Boeroer]

Not sure why you want to waste your wits debating this specimen again, Boeroer. Just let it feel vindicated because, as it thinks, the sole reason that Obsidian went down is because they failed to match its very restrictive ("Baldurz Gate 2 is perfection!!!!1!") personal set of expectations; for its types it's always "did not cater to me to the last letter = objectively bad" and any attempt to have a rational discussion is doomed beforehand. Maybe then it'll stop posting the same thing again and again.

 

 

...bleh, who am I kidding. No cure for obsession this unhealthy.

Wael knows we (the incarnations of bigbazoopa and me) had our quarrels, but I think once forum people bring up good arguments (form aside) it's worth discussing them.

 

I also don't believe in excluding people generally and completely out of animosity.

 

I don't hold grudges (I mean in these "forum cases"). For example I couldn't talk to Gromnir anymore if I'd close the door after clashing with him. Now that would be a shame, wouldn't it? Some of the people we clash with actually post very viable things.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Boeroer

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

Great points. I agree with most of it.

 

I'd also like to chip in and say that this also resembles some of the previous games of Obsidian, for example Kotor 2 and Alpha Protocol. Games that didn't sell that well and were very criticized initially but over time got a lot of fans and complimentary articles. Maybe the fate of Deadfire will be the same.

 

Also New Vegas, which had an underwhelming reception and is now serious contender for high point of FO franchise.

 

its not an obs game, but i feel compelled to mention PST, which completely stiffed on arrival and is now part of the pantheon.

 

i feel that if deadfire will be remembered - or even celebrated - it will be for its portrayal of colonial politics. i bet the games afterlife will rest on that.

 

i think the games distinctly odd critical path may become a curiosity. feel theres at least one longform defence of it due in years to come.

[bugarup]

 

Great points. I agree with most of it.

 

I'd also like to chip in and say that this also resembles some of the previous games of Obsidian, for example Kotor 2 and Alpha Protocol. Games that didn't sell that well and were very criticized initially but over time got a lot of fans and complimentary articles. Maybe the fate of Deadfire will be the same.

 

 

It's very likely and I bet "Tyranny" will get there as well - after all, majority of games from Black Isle alumni eventually gained cult status, even if cultists aren't that big in numbers. KOTOR 2, New Vegas, Alpha Procotol, MotB. Bloodlines. Arcanum. And lets not forget the granddaddy of 'em, 'ol Torment. 

 

You know what else unites them? They all either underperformed or flat out bombed. Meanwhile, EA sells the same three sports games every year to obscenely large number of people and GTA never ever leaves Top10 bestsellers on Steam. No wonder people love their shallow high fantasy escapism schlock so much when world is this unfair. 

[bigbazoopa]

 

Not sure why you want to waste your wits debating this specimen again, Boeroer. Just let it feel vindicated because, as it thinks, the sole reason that Obsidian went down is because they failed to match its very restrictive ("Baldurz Gate 2 is perfection!!!!1!") personal set of expectations; for its types it's always "did not cater to me to the last letter = objectively bad" and any attempt to have a rational discussion is doomed beforehand. Maybe then it'll stop posting the same thing again and again.

 

 

...bleh, who am I kidding. No cure for obsession this unhealthy.

Wael knows we (the incarnations of bigbazoopa and me) had our quarrels, but I think once forum people bring up good arguments (form aside) it's worth discussing them.

 

I also don't believe in excluding people generally and completely out of animosity.

 

I don't hold grudges (I mean in these "forum cases"). For example I couldn't talk to Gromnir anymore if I'd close the door after clashing with him. Now that would be a shame, wouldn't it? Some of the people we clash with actually post very viable things.

 

 

The one thing you guys need to understand is is that I criticize Obsidian alot because they crushed my dreams of Pillars of eternity 2 being becoming the new modern day Baldurs Gate 2.

 

This is the only reason i am so frustrated with them. They had the opportunity and they wasted it. Not only did they waste it but there narrative designer oversaw this whole debacle and let it continue. Im sorry but the story, writing and narrative was really really bad man and they weren't very creative with there content. In short I think Josh Sawyer was a really bad dungeon master. 

 

Alot of the critisism i get on these forums is from devoted obsidian fanbois. I now who you are and you will never listen to logic or reason if it portrays your beloved Obsidian in a negative light.

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

No wonder people love their shallow high fantasy escapism schlock so much when world is this unfair. 

 

Ye, i didnt mean to sound dismissive of such things when i was writing earlier. i consume no end of shameless trash for emotional release. i totally get the need.

[Hassat Hunter]

Bigbazoops list is completely personal and has nothing to do with anything anyone thinks IMO. Triple's reasons are a lot more reasonable, but you really wont know the main quest is lacklustre when you buy it so that's likely not a reason for people not to buy rather than people be dissapointed and perhaps not buy another Obs game later on.

 

I myself don't hate the setting at all as most here apparently seem to do(?), it's a fresh change from everyone doing the same boring fantasy every time. There's a reason we all absolutely reach for a space RPG. Anything but damn fantasy again. I'm not really well-known with Kingmaker at the moment to talk about that but D:OS2 definitely sailed on the success of D:OS1. Which had nothing to do with it's setting, 100% with it's combat system and elements interacting. Of course D:OS2 for some reason craps all over that in favour of PVP (Oh how I hate PvP for ruining everything... as usual), and I myself am thoroughly dissapointed by Larian right now. And Obsidian, but that's due to the takeover, not their games . (But yeah the ship combat is bad and I just auto-skip to combat all the time)

 

 

I think we're overlooking all the actual reasons of a bad sale if it did so by looking at things like setting.

[Boeroer]

I still think that the setting is a big reason. It's visible and obvious when searching for a game to buy.

 

Another might be disappointment with PoE for whatever reason.

 

Those are two reasons not to buy Deadfire. The other internal "flaws" might be reasons not to like Deadfire (and could have a huge impact on the sales of PoE3 should it ever come), but you will have already bought the game then. And remember: reviews were fine.

 

Not a lot of people like getting served "something new" unfortunately (you can include me when it comes to new game mechanics while the old ones worked just fine...)

Edited November 13, 2018 by Boeroer

[bigbazoopa]

I still think that the setting is a big reason. It's visible and obvious when searching for a game to buy.

 

Another might be disappointment with PoE for whatever reason.

 

Those are two reasons not to buy Deadfire. The other internal "flaws" might be reasons not to like Deadfire (and could have a huge impact on the sales of PoE3 should it ever come), but you will have already bought the game then. And remember: reviews were fine.

 

Not a lot of people like getting served "something new" unfortunately (you can include me when it comes to new game mechanics while the old ones worked just fine...)

 

The good news is that Wizards of the Coast are about to announce three major PC games set in the Forgotten Reams. Im praying one of them is a CRPG like BG2