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[CLASS BUILD & MECHANICS 101] Let's learn with Umezawa! (Streetfighter/Wael)

class build build priest rogue zealot wael streetfighter mechanics 1.2

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#41
Boeroer

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You shouldn't be sorry. They needed a nerf badly. Same as scrolls.
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#42
knownastherat

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You still don't get it, do you? It's not about whether "something needs to be nerfed or not" (because who is to say? you? on what authority?) it's about imposing own ideas on others. Apparently, a good number of people, perhaps majority, have a little problem, if any, with imposing on others when calling for nerfs: Make the game according to my liking!  or softer, more dishonest, version: I think the game would be better if it was made according to my liking.

 

So now you think, knownastherat is wrong because the developers expect and appreciate our feedback, right? Perhaps they do, but it changes nothing about imposing,  to establish or bring about as if by force, own views on others where developers act as a proxy. 

 

And now you think, knownastherat is delusional because that is how society works, (vocal)majority imposes own views on (silent)minority, right? Yes, but it does not make it right. 


Edited by knownastherat, 04 July 2018 - 09:35 AM.


#43
thelee

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You shouldn't be sorry. They needed a nerf badly. Same as scrolls.

 

I was only being tongue-in-cheek sorry :). I tweeted at JE Sawyer because I truly believed Potion of Impediment in particular was horribly broken. Bu yeah, scrolls in particular seemed to me a worst offender (an early potd run I randomly gave pallegina arcana and mid-high end scrolls and proceeded to later drop my jaw when she cleared an entire fight with just like two scrolls; ~ +20PL on already good effects, come on!).

 

I think an interesting thing the nerf revealed is previously to what extent this build leaned on deadeye and potion of deftness for its accuracy bonus, especially for self-sparkcrackers. It's probably for the best that consumables can't be such a crutch now, but it will be an interesting exercise soon to retune the stats on this build a bit (particularly for early game).



#44
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Yeah - sometimes it's even fun to use such stuff. Like I really liked my scroll abusing rogue in PoE (Deathblows + Maelstrom, Deep Wounds + Concussive Missiles... whew). But overall I think it's best for the game and the majority of players if scrolls and potions are not outshining everything you can achieve with actual abilities.

It just feels so cheap to "buy" all that power while building your character into another direction (for example build a supertank with zero offensive capability when it comes to abilities but then boost arcana and destroy everything with scrolls while you can't be scratched).

Edited by Boeroer, 04 July 2018 - 11:47 AM.

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#45
thelee

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Minor update: I re-tuned the stats after playing around with the early game and late game a bit on a test character. Basically dumping resolve in favor of perception and avoiding a might malus.

 

The overall 1.2 nerf makes this character a little bit more fragile; I even opt against using a Cloak of +7 Deflection mid-late game (preferring Nemnok's Cloak in end-game) just to make it easier to land Sparkcrackers on myself; all this means a net -15 deflection from 1.1 to 1.2 so expect to get hit a lot more. Plus Potions of the Final Stand last for way less time, and Barring Death's Door got hit with a nerfbat. Salvation of Time is still good (probably even better because getting +20s on even-shorter-duration effects is that much stronger).

 

So, a little bit more micromanagement-intensive, but still a fun, proactive way to do a stupid amount of sustained damage.


Edited by thelee, 04 July 2018 - 12:39 PM.


#46
Lótus Haddock

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One like only because you really put love in writing this guide.



#47
thelee

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For anyone who cares, I updated this to be more relevant in 3.0 (and also because I plan on referring to it for another character build/mechanics write up, so it seemed prudent for this to be up-to-date).


Edited by thelee, 10 October 2018 - 12:43 PM.

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#48
hansvedic

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For anyone who cares, I updated this to be more relevant in 3.0 (and also because I plan on referring to it for another character build/mechanics write up, so it seemed prudent for this to be up-to-date).

 

Thanks for updating this awesome build!

 

I look forward to hearing about this other character, if you haven't already put it out there (have you?).

 

Also, have you considered using battle axes on this character? The modal, when used when you have the streetfighter recovery time bonus, allows you to inflict quite a few long-lasting bleeds (60s base, 10% of swing damage per 3 seconds). This might be useful for enemies that you need to outlast rather than kill quickly, especially given all the time you can spend untargetable or unkillable with stealthing abilities, Withdraw (Footprints of Ahu Taka perhaps for an extra cast), BDD, and Salvation of Time. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.



#49
thelee

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For anyone who cares, I updated this to be more relevant in 3.0 (and also because I plan on referring to it for another character build/mechanics write up, so it seemed prudent for this to be up-to-date).

 

Thanks for updating this awesome build!

 

I look forward to hearing about this other character, if you haven't already put it out there (have you?).

 

Also, have you considered using battle axes on this character? The modal, when used when you have the streetfighter recovery time bonus, allows you to inflict quite a few long-lasting bleeds (60s base, 10% of swing damage per 3 seconds). This might be useful for enemies that you need to outlast rather than kill quickly, especially given all the time you can spend untargetable or unkillable with stealthing abilities, Withdraw (Footprints of Ahu Taka perhaps for an extra cast), BDD, and Salvation of Time. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.

 

 

Thanks for the nice words!

 

No, I haven't written up the other build yet. It takes time and I don't have a lot of it these days :)

 

I actually do have another streetfighter variant (blackjacket + streetfighter) that does use axes. In general in my experience once a well-tuned streetfighter starts attacking an enemy that enemy is going to die soon, so you might not get as much out of the bleeding modal as you might hope. But you are right, with evasion abilities and especially on the survivor challenges in SSS there are so many bullet sponges that being able to stack lots of bleeding DoTs might be very helpful. (I did not actually get to try SSS with that other streetfighter variant because I was on Abydon's Challenge and starting to get really annoyed at having to repair everything so I just blitzed through the critical path.)


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#50
colma86

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I’m trying this on my current run and really enjoy it, it’s a nice break from my usual contemplative go-to for a priest. Thanks for updating it.

I found it to be particularly hilarious when paired with a watershaper dumping foe-only chill fogs around.
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#51
Killyox

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Why don't you use the pet with PARTY EFFECT that reduces armor recovery instead of Cosmo?

 

Nalvi - +1 resolve, party wide reduction of recovery penalty for armors



#52
thelee

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Why don't you use the pet with PARTY EFFECT that reduces armor recovery instead of Cosmo?

 

Nalvi - +1 resolve, party wide reduction of recovery penalty for armors

 

when it comes to pets, the party-wide effect is always weaker than the mainchar-only effect. in this case, nalvi gives you a much smaller improvement to armor recovery than epsilon or pirate cosmo (albeit it gives it to everyone). you can lean that way if you want, but this class is such a glass cannon you really want to be selfish with the armor recovery reduction.

 

also, in more recent versions of the game (due to consumables nerf), we don't actually want too much extra resolve because it hurts our ability to distract ourself (either with powder burns or sparkcrackers). if you're not going that route, then maybe the +1 resolve is decent.


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#53
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Wait a sec... just had a thought: Can one distract themselves with Arkemyr's Dazzling Lights?
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#54
thelee

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Wait a sec... just had a thought: Can one distract themselves with Arkemyr's Dazzling Lights?

 

arkemyr's dazzling lights is a "dazed" effect, no?



#55
thelee

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what would be the best is if there existed some AoE disorienting effect, because then you could just equip that that gives you perception resistance and it would be far more fool-proof than powder burns, sparkcrackers, or trying to get flanked/<50% health.

 

but as far as I can tell, disorienting is extremely rare to do; mule kick maybe? you're largely left with distracted or blinded (which can be resisted down to disoriented, but that's still +50% recovery time penalty so it's not ideal).



#56
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You could do Berseker/Streetfighter with Smoke Cloud maybe? IIRC I terrfied myself with Spirit Tornado on a Berseker (or was it the Whitewitch Mask?) - so maybe Smoke Cloud when confused would hit you as well?

 

P.S: Why do you want to get disoriented and then reduce it to distracted? Why not going for distracted directly?


Edited by Boeroer, 08 November 2018 - 01:12 PM.


#57
thelee

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You could do Berseker/Streetfighter with Smoke Cloud maybe? IIRC I terrfied myself with Spirit Tornado on a Berseker (or was it the Whitewitch Mask?) - so maybe Smoke Cloud when confused would hit you as well?

 

P.S: Why do you want to get disoriented and then reduce it to distracted? Why not going for distracted directly?

 

berserker + smoke cloud is an interesting idea. i might have to test rolling one soon because that might be an easy way to trigger it (at the cost of some guile).

 

I was talking about disoriented -> distracted because i thought i had accounted for every possible distracted effect  :) my own hubris, since i clearly didn't think about confusion + party-friendly distraction effects.


Edited by thelee, 08 November 2018 - 02:44 PM.


#58
Boeroer

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I just did a quick test and sadly you can't distract yourself with Smoke Cloud. I never noticed it's friendly fire though. So another party member can easily distract you with it.

 

But I guess the friendly-fire aspect is what prevents it from hitting yourself when confused:

 

If an ability if foe only the code doesn't need to exclude the casting character exclusively because he's friendly. If you get confused that may change and and you can hit yourself.

 

If an ability has frendly fire it will have to exclude the caster specifically - and that wil not change when confused I guess.

 

So we need to search for effects which usually are foe-only and disorient or distract and a way to get confused. Hm, can a Wizard confuse himself and then distract...? 


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#59
Haplok

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If a Witch can be considered, Berserker confused + Phantom Foes?

 

Edit: Sorry, that's not a Streetfighter then.

Well, but would be nice to have such a Witch in the party - when not going solo.


Edited by Haplok, 08 November 2018 - 11:43 PM.


#60
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I can't figure out a convenient way (only some that are bit fiddly, see below). Maybe I miss something?

 

Wizard/Streetfighter:

Wizard's Confusion and Frightening spells can't hit the caster (if not confused before).

But you can be a Pale Elf, cast Bulwark, get a resistance against PER afflictions and walk in your own Chillfog disoriented while the rest is blinded.

But that resistance shoukld not come from Defiant Apparel because it only gives you a esistance as long as you are not flanked. The first pulse will disorient you (hat works) but also flank you (hat stops working) and the next pulse will blind you. You'll keep your "Heating Up" status, but meh... Ring of Mule's Wit works! ;) As does the Saint's War Armor (Like a Steel Trap). I mean it grants you a big advantage over the enemies in the fog... You get -50% recovery time (and also the +50% from disoriented and -5 PER), you get +50% Sneak Attack dmg while the enemies get +100% recovery and can't hit you as well with -15 reduced ACC and so on.

This new Dragon Grimoire (the unique buff gives you two +15% lashes on weapon attacks) + Heating Up should make a great melee Spellblade character who walks in his own Chillfog. Use Alacrity to speed you up more. THe lashes should work really well with the higher Sneak Attack and the not-so-sluggish attack speed (compared to your enemies).  

 

Berserker/Streetfighter:

Smoke Cloud/Smoke Bomb can't hit the caster no matter what. You can't engage yourself with Persistent Distraction when confused. You cant hit yourself with Sap.  ;)

 

Cipher/Streetfighter:

Tenuous Grasp/Whisper of Treason and other INT affliction spells can only be targeted on foes. Phantom Foes can only be targeted on a foe and is foe only.

 

Chanter/Streetfighter:

Whisps can be upgraded to cause Distracted on hit. So from PL 5 on you could summon Whisps that attack you, giving you little damage (laughable with very low Shock PEN) but keep you Distracted/Flanked all the time. Heh. I think I also read that in some forum build lately. Which one was it again? Could wear Deltro's Helm in order to profit from the shock damage a bit...

 

Is there more? THere are not that many disorienting attacks in Dedafire, are there?


Edited by Boeroer, 09 November 2018 - 12:04 AM.






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