Large Shields

[gristlethick]

Probably the worst design in the game. It is required that you have a character with a large shield. Because you had decided that it should be given a modal ability that reduces incoming ranged damaged by 50%.

 

50%. Not 20, not 30 but a flat 50% reduction. What?

And on another note anyone using a large shield can be expected to hit one in three hundred attacks in POTD. Anyone equipped with a large shield and heavy armor just takes up a slot in the party that just... sits there really. It's not fun at all. If you take this into account it doesn't really feel like you have 5 full party members. You have that thing that sits there and then you have 4 more characters.

 

It further punishes the fact that the party cap is stuck at 5. I can't help but feel any party I make just feels... barely short of being complete.

[wRAR]

Huh?

[Wormerine]

Well, yeah if you boose a character with heavy heavy defence (heaviest armour and largest shield) he gains major defence boost sacrificing offensive capabilities. If you want a more offecive team use lighter equipment. If you want a tanky passive tank then put as much armor on him as you want. If there weren't major drawback to heavy shield and armor then why wouldnt you wear it?
 

[Shadenuat]

If anything sword & shield is he least attractive choice in the game, while dual wielding ninjas are le best. You can make a good tank by just slapping some super armor and items and heals on him and do fine.

[Zoso der Goldene]

Probably the worst design in the game. It is required that you have a character with a large shield. Because you had decided that it should be given a modal ability that reduces incoming ranged damaged by 50%.

 

50%. Not 20, not 30 but a flat 50% reduction. What?

 

And on another note anyone using a large shield can be expected to hit one in three hundred attacks in POTD. Anyone equipped with a large shield and heavy armor just takes up a slot in the party that just... sits there really. It's not fun at all. If you take this into account it doesn't really feel like you have 5 full party members. You have that thing that sits there and then you have 4 more characters.

 

It further punishes the fact that the party cap is stuck at 5. I can't help but feel any party I make just feels... barely short of being complete.

Why not play an Assassin (for the +25 Accuracy boost from Stealth) with Rapier (for the +20 Accuracy Modal) and have a Priest add another +20 Accuracy at the start of combat and wear gloves of accuracy ...

Agreed, it will always be worse than without the Shield, but all is not lost, and it's always a trade off.

[Purudaya]

You can easily run a shieldless party in Deadfire. You just trade defense for offense - enemies can't shoot you if they're prone/stunned/paralyzed/charmed/dead.

[Guest]

Hmm. Not sure where this is coming from. No one in my party wears anything heavier than medium, nor does anyone carry a large shield (fighter pc carries a medium round and xoti carries a buckler).

Edited June 14, 2018 by Achilles

[Undesirable]

Build a tanky party that has lots of summons, buffs, heals and uses firearms

[Boeroer]

Large Shield is awesome against anything that targets reflex - like Dragon Breaths for example. Combine it with other DR gear (like the helmet that reduces damage based on how many corpses lay around you) and you'll get very little damage even if your defenses are not the best.

 

It doesn't mean you have to use it all the time. There's a reason you have more than one weapon set.

[Ashen Rohk]

There's also a shield that gives a universal +1 to armour rating called the Shining Bulwark.

 

I just wish we had the Barn Door from the first game that randomly proc'd a knock down.

[AeonsLegend]

Shields are so unnecessary with all the free stats you get. At level 20 end game vs last enemies in the game they miss you more than hit you even without equipment.

[Undesirable]

Shields are so unnecessary with all the free stats you get. At level 20 end game vs last enemies in the game they miss you more than hit you even without equipment.

Good point, that means a Paladin \ Rogue dual-wielding with riposte can be powerful.

[Shadenuat]

Should shields really reduce your acc though?

 

You get grand acc bonus for single weapon, damage (*theoretically*) and reach from 2 handers, and lol 2 weapons = double damage anime.

 

Seems like shields might not reduce your acc at all, but could have been balanced around different defences: buckler = better deflection + parry, medium shield = some extra saves or whatever, largest = best against ranged weapons but penalty to Stride.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Shadenuat

[Erik Dirk]

Tuotilos palm. Does it still work with both dual wield and shield passives

[Abel]

Should shields really reduce your acc though?

 

You get grand acc bonus for single weapon, damage (*theoretically*) and reach from 2 handers, and lol 2 weapons = double damage anime.

 

Seems like shields might not reduce your acc at all, but could have been balanced around different defences: buckler = better deflection + parry, medium shield = some extra saves or whatever, largest = best against ranged weapons but penalty to Stride.

 

 

Wouldn't that make their usefulness too specific?

[Shadenuat]

Tuotilos palm. Does it still work with both dual wield and shield passives

Aka that dual wielding second pseudo weapon but worse.

 

Played it on a rogue illusionist with counter attack passive and bonuses to deflection and 20 resolve. Nothing special. Nearly not as good damage as 2 weapons, and nothing compared to survivability of a fighter or paladin.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Shadenuat

[Boeroer]

I just wish we had the Barn Door from the first game that randomly proc'd a knock down.

The Larder Door only has Bash - which is a low dmg offhand attack without any special effect that does not profit from dual wield speed bonus nor Two Weapon Style. It actually reduces your auto attacks' dps.

[Silent Winter]

 

I just wish we had the Barn Door from the first game that randomly proc'd a knock down.

The Larder Door only has Bash - which is a low dmg offhand attack without any special effect that does not profit from dual wield speed bonus nor Two Weapon Style. It actually reduces your auto attacks' dps.

 

but looked cool while you were doing it

 

I've got one large shield on one character, a medium on another, and the rest of the party have both hands on a weapon.  Never really noticed, but the one with the large shield is a druid and spends more time casting spells.

[mrscojangles]

Personally I'd say medium shields seem to be the better option for tank characters, since they're generally taking more damage from melee while the ranged enemies are more likely to be going after your back lines or squishier characters. I can see swapping around to a large shield if you know the enemies have specific reflex save spells that are mashing you, but for general usage I'd argue medium shield is the better option for tanks. Can't speak for non tanks as the accuracy loss has never been worth it for me on dps characters, though I could see the large shield modal being nice to situationally swap on with a heal/buff char, when you are casting spells that don't target the enemy.

[Crucis]

Personally I'd say medium shields seem to be the better option for tank characters, since they're generally taking more damage from melee while the ranged enemies are more likely to be going after your back lines or squishier characters. I can see swapping around to a large shield if you know the enemies have specific reflex save spells that are mashing you, but for general usage I'd argue medium shield is the better option for tanks. Can't speak for non tanks as the accuracy loss has never been worth it for me on dps characters, though I could see the large shield modal being nice to situationally swap on with a heal/buff char, when you are casting spells that don't target the enemy.

 

I'm not sure why you'd say that medium shields are better for tanks than large ones.  More deflection seems better to me for a tank, i.e. a character who isn't really expected to do a lot of damage, but is expected to hold the front line.  It seems like a medium shield would be more for a melee character who you are expecting to be more offensive in nature.

[evilcat]

Big shield is interesting option for support caster as secondary slot, if you are casting buffs, heals or summoning then you dont care about acc anyway.

Also you can spare a talent for modal +12 Def when you need it (Arms bearer for class which normally dont need it).

[mrscojangles]

I'm not sure why you'd say that medium shields are better for tanks than large ones.  More deflection seems better to me for a tank, i.e. a character who isn't really expected to do a lot of damage, but is expected to hold the front line.  It seems like a medium shield would be more for a melee character who you are expecting to be more offensive in nature.

 

Because of the modal. While you are correct, more deflection is a good thing, the medium shield modal is a 30% chance to completely resist an attack at the cost of 25% recovery penalty on weapons. Since my tank isn't really doing any significant weapon damage and is mostly just hitting things to debuff them with the weapon modals, the 25% increased recovery is negligible. At that point you're trading some deflection for the chance to completely avoid an attack and you're not losing out on as much accuracy, if your tank is a chanter or something else where you still want to be able to hit the enemy with debuffs.

[Tigranes]

It's nice that people run in the room and scream "this is so stupid OP it is so broken why are people so dumb?!?!?!", so that we can confirm that nobody else thinks large shields are a 'must have'.

 

I'd say it's actually one of the more balanced, clever options: it has a very clear and tangible benefit in the right setup/situation, making it attractive to use, but at the same time it's not so much better than everything else that it's a default. (If only the same was true of, say, dual-wield vs. 2-handers.)

Edited June 15, 2018 by Tigranes

[Guest]

 

I'm not sure why you'd say that medium shields are better for tanks than large ones. More deflection seems better to me for a tank, i.e. a character who isn't really expected to do a lot of damage, but is expected to hold the front line. It seems like a medium shield would be more for a melee character who you are expecting to be more offensive in nature.

Because of the modal. While you are correct, more deflection is a good thing, the medium shield modal is a 30% chance to completely resist an attack at the cost of 25% recovery penalty on weapons. Since my tank isn't really doing any significant weapon damage and is mostly just hitting things to debuff them with the weapon modals, the 25% increased recovery is negligible. At that point you're trading some deflection for the chance to completely avoid an attack and you're not losing out on as much accuracy, if your tank is a chanter or something else where you still want to be able to hit the enemy with debuffs.

With high resolve and Weapon and Shield Style, my PC has well over 100 Deflection before modals and stances. Tacking on a few more, at the expense of deflection, is hardly a no-brainer.