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Is Pillars of Eternity II men hating pro feminist game.

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...look at star wars how the game was ruined by SJW...

So how was star wars ruined by sjw?

Edited by ArnoldRimmer

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Feminism is about giving both sexes the same possibilities if they are able to perform them, and not limit them simply by being the wrong sex. Nowhere do you hate men because you're a feminist. The only thing it's about is allowing everyone the same chances in life.

 

It's not about getting people to do something they're not capable of doing, it's giving them the right to do the job if they CAN do it. How do people have issues with this?

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...look at star wars how the game was ruined by SJW...

So how was star wars ruined by sjw?

 

I think it's about Star Wars VIII, withoutsoul and an agenda of racial quota and ugly women in the Resistance.

 

Rogue One was really better with a true deep of world and a strong woman main character who is not a Mary Sue.

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Xoti is a bit of an exception, because she's warm. I think she might be the only warm or vulnerable female NPC I encountered in the game. For whatever reason though, she's very flirty but I was never able to produce a full romantic relationship with her. Might be a bug, IDK, or perhaps you need 5 reputation or something or maybe that's how they intended it. But warm and or vulnerable is a big no no in feminist inspired writing, so it's not _entirely_ progressive. 

There is nothing anti-feminist or unprogressive about warmth or vulnerability as character traits for characters of any gender.

 

Also, reputation levels max out at +2/-2 and Xoti has a full romance. You can look it up on YouTube. 

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Wow. 50+ replies already. It is amazing how some people are able to create such engaging threads. 

Edited by wih

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TBH, it's hard to write moral tales for the modern audience. You have this increasing political divide, with the new right, new centrists and then progressives, and they have completely different ideas what makes a moral right. How do you write to that? 

You don't. You write however you want to. It's your prerogative as an artist. And it's fiction so you don't have to care about anyone in particular. 

 

 

Well that's true and it isn't. I mean a studio like obsidian has to fund it's employees, hopefully grow. Like any art that is commercial, be it movies or tv, or video games it has to contend with what the audience wants, and be entertainment first, and messaging and art second. Or otherwise blend the two.

 

Obsidian isn't entirely a startup indie, but isn't a massive software studio either, so it gets room for creativity for sure. 

 

When it comes to increasing ideological differences in this age, that means ideally, you either try and balance it all, or you pick a lane. I don't think these decisions have majorly or minorly effected its saleability, but I am just saying that if I was a writer, this would be something I would consider - the ideological device in the current year, even if many writers don't. It makes some story lines more broadly appealing, and some more divisive.

 

In a way, it's easier to default to a classic story writing mode, like game of thrones, westworld or the walking dead rather than going left wing IMO, for broad appeal. Mass audiences these days seem to respond to epic tales with grit, violence, sex and moral greys. I think the same would be true of video games. Here, rather than having the morals of the story be dictated by political leaning, they simply having a few strong characters of all demographics. And I think that's changed versus five years ago even where progressivism was more dominant.

 

The world, is in a way, still dealing/struggling with the changes, let alone adapted and aware of them.   It's strange because in a way, this is the centre and the right as it's always been - conserving traditions, upholding biological absolutes - preservation oriented, value and duty orientated. But suddenly in the last decade or so, these have been classes as "enemy" positions and incomprehensible, despite a constant right wing drift of all generations as the age (including millennials according to recent studies).

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I think it's about Star Wars VIII, withoutsoul and an agenda of racial quota and ugly women in the Resistance.

You really need help... You seem upset that one of the characters wasn't white - how does that make it an agenda? And which ugly women?

 

The latest star wars Film was great and Rei and fynn (not sure how their names are spelt in the film) are very funny and just what the star wars films needed

Edited by ArnoldRimmer
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Xoti is a bit of an exception, because she's warm. I think she might be the only warm or vulnerable female NPC I encountered in the game. For whatever reason though, she's very flirty but I was never able to produce a full romantic relationship with her. Might be a bug, IDK, or perhaps you need 5 reputation or something or maybe that's how they intended it. But warm and or vulnerable is a big no no in feminist inspired writing, so it's not _entirely_ progressive. 

There is nothing anti-feminist or unprogressive about warmth or vulnerability as character traits for characters of any gender.

 

Also, reputation levels max out at +2/-2 and Xoti has a full romance. You can look it up on YouTube. 

 

 

Is it a bug then that it never happened for me? I did all the character quest, all the dialogue options, and had a decent reputation and it never became a courting, let alone a relationship. Perhaps I should report this somehow if that's the case. 

 

I agree, although I am not a feminist. I mean really anything can be considered 'feminist" or not depending on how you spin it.

 

But because under intersectionality characters become considered avatars for their demographic by the audience, writers tend to stray away from giving their characters any weakness and therefor depth or room to grow. If a character is too stereotypically feminine, as xoti's traits might be classed, then that can be seen as "disempowering". I mean that's not my perspective, I've just seen this sort of commentary plenty of times, that the preference is for "strong characters".

 

Although I am sure this is also just related to the public hunger for wish forfillment, of which straight men certainly had their fill in the 80s. 

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I think it's about Star Wars VIII, withoutsoul and an agenda of racial quota and ugly women in the Resistance.

You really need help... You seem upset that one of the characters wasn't white - how does that make it an agenda? And which ugly women?

 

The latest star wars Film was great and Rei and fynn (not sure how their names are spelt in the film) are very funny and just what the star wars films needed

 

 

I'm going to have to disagree with that, but for entirely different reasons. The latest movie changed/altered the lore, and the historical characters. It was a very intentional act to sever star wars from it's ancestory based, monastic, religious and classical thinking underpinnings. The treatment of luke for example, was completely out of character - dude tries to save his dark side dad, and turns around and tries to kill a child because he might get up to no good. To many fans of the series, that's a turn against the prior movies, and a bit of an insult to the fanbase. 

 

Personally I could forgive the left leaning narratives if they had not done this. They are distracting when you personally no longer think that way for the most part, but It's hard to find a movie out of hollyweird that doesn't have that bent so you best get used to it. Either than or take up reading :p

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This thread has turned into a discussion about a Star Wars movie. Which is awesome (I mean the fact that it turned, not the movie itself - which I even can't remember properly).

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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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I think it's about Star Wars VIII, withoutsoul and an agenda of racial quota and ugly women in the Resistance.

You really need help... You seem upset that one of the characters wasn't white - how does that make it an agenda? And which ugly women?

 

The latest star wars Film was great and Rei and fynn (not sure how their names are spelt in the film) are very funny and just what the star wars films needed

 

 

You need opthalmologic help if you cannot see this big nose Larma d'Acy effect ugly.

 

Not one character, the only new character who is white is a woman Mary Sue as Rey.

 

The latest star wars film was a crual joke, a troll and a real shame but it's not the place to talk about that. Story with non-sens, WTF scenes, a lot of mistakes, zero intensity. It's the worst SW ever and it's an objectif point of view. But I stop talk about SW anymore, it's not the place for that.

 

Maybe you like it, I better understand your point of view now.

Edited by DaKatarn

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Xoti is a bit of an exception, because she's warm. I think she might be the only warm or vulnerable female NPC I encountered in the game. For whatever reason though, she's very flirty but I was never able to produce a full romantic relationship with her. Might be a bug, IDK, or perhaps you need 5 reputation or something or maybe that's how they intended it. But warm and or vulnerable is a big no no in feminist inspired writing, so it's not _entirely_ progressive. 

There is nothing anti-feminist or unprogressive about warmth or vulnerability as character traits for characters of any gender.

 

Also, reputation levels max out at +2/-2 and Xoti has a full romance. You can look it up on YouTube. 

 

 

Is it a bug then that it never happened for me? I did all the character quest, all the dialogue options, and had a decent reputation and it never became a courting, let alone a relationship. Perhaps I should report this somehow if that's the case. 

 

I agree, although I am not a feminist. I mean really anything can be considered 'feminist" or not depending on how you spin it.

 

But because under intersectionality characters become considered avatars for their demographic by the audience, writers tend to stray away from giving their characters any weakness and therefor depth or room to grow. If a character is too stereotypically feminine, as xoti's traits might be classed, then that can be seen as "disempowering". I mean that's not my perspective, I've just seen this sort of commentary plenty of times, that the preference is for "strong characters".

 

Although I am sure this is also just related to the public hunger for wish forfillment, of which straight men certainly had their fill in the 80s. 

 

It very well could be a bug? I don't know. Either that or you expected more romance content than is in the game. 

 

That isn't a definition of intersectionality that I'm familiar with. It just means that women's experiences with oppression are not uniform and are inextricably linked to other aspects of who they are like social class, ethnic background, nationality, disability, etc. A "strong character" is too nebulously defined to really be a worthwhile category. Maybe if you gave specific examples of writers, media or commentary you are referring to?

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I think it's about Star Wars VIII, withoutsoul and an agenda of racial quota and ugly women in the Resistance.

You really need help... You seem upset that one of the characters wasn't white - how does that make it an agenda? And which ugly women?

 

The latest star wars Film was great and Rei and fynn (not sure how their names are spelt in the film) are very funny and just what the star wars films needed

 

 

I'm going to have to disagree with that, but for entirely different reasons. The latest movie changed/altered the lore, and the historical characters. It was a very intentional act to sever star wars from it's ancestory based, monastic, religious and classical thinking underpinnings. The treatment of luke for example, was completely out of character - dude tries to save his dark side dad, and turns around and tries to kill a child because he might get up to no good. To many fans of the series, that's a turn against the prior movies, and a bit of an insult to the fanbase. 

 

Personally I could forgive the left leaning narratives if they had not done this. They are distracting when you personally no longer think that way for the most part, but It's hard to find a movie out of hollyweird that doesn't have that bent so you best get used to it. Either than or take up reading :p

 

I'm totally agree with you, so much negative points in this movie. I talk only about "feminist theme" because it's the first goal of this thread. And I like Star Wars VII and love Rogue One.

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The first pillars was correct on this point: no intense SJW propaganda IMO (maybe just the Sagani' story with her role of hunter and her husband who stay at home for the children but it's light) and I LIKE THAT SO MUCH.

What the ****?

 

So let me get this straight. A female goes out on an adventure while her husband stays home and that's SJW propaganda?

 

But....why? I don't ****ing understand this. Why does it have be some kind of propaganda for women to go do stuff while men watch the children?

 

Isn't that just people being ****ing people? What, do you demand that no man ever watches children or else it's SJW propaganda? Are men just not allowed to nurture their young or something?

 

im-confused-m08wjd.jpg

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I think it's about Star Wars VIII, withoutsoul and an agenda of racial quota and ugly women in the Resistance.

You really need help... You seem upset that one of the characters wasn't white - how does that make it an agenda? And which ugly women?

 

The latest star wars Film was great and Rei and fynn (not sure how their names are spelt in the film) are very funny and just what the star wars films needed

 

 

The treatment of luke for example, was completely out of character - dude tries to save his dark side dad, and turns around and tries to kill a child because he might get up to no good.

No, actually, he doesn't. He thinks about it *for a moment*, and then he *chooses not to*. At that point Kylo wakes up, senses the thought, and attacks him.

 

And Luke is *horrified* at himself for even having the thought.

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I can't believe people are answering to this stupid post.

 

Well, you just answered it too. Your answer was that it's stupid.

 

My answer was exactly what the OP got wrong.

 

Do you have an opinion about which post added more to the discussion, yours or mine?

 

No, my answer is that you are all feeding the troll. It wasn't that hard to figure it out, i don't know how you missed it.

Edited by Keldaur

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But....why? I don't ****ing understand this. Why does it have be some kind of propaganda for women to go do stuff while men watch the children?

Because there are people who strongly believe that it is any man's job to get the food on the table and any woman's job to stay at home and raise the children and do the chores. And any idea that dares deviate from that view is regarded as SJW propaganda.

 

But mind you, there are also many people who only pretend to think that way to get strong reactions from other people. So you really don't know who actually thinks that way or not.

 

This thread is almost like an invitation for certain people to come here an try to get strong reactions from other people.

And the stronger you react and show how shocked you are the more fun it is for them to try to "trigger" you even more.

 

So the only appropriate reaction to this thread in my view can be very well expressed by this smiley: -_-

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Looks like a troll thread, but here are some rebuking facts:

 

Galawain, Abydon, Skaen, Eothas, Rymrgand, Berath (aspect of Usher) - male

Hylea, Woedica, Ondra, Magran, Berath (aspect of Pallid Knight) - female 

Wael - all genders

 

So, no, not all gods are female, they're pretty even, but more of them male. And if you give an example of Skaen being ugly why not bring a "many breasts" ugly fish headed Ondra or "burnt face" Woedica as female examples? 

 

Narrator is female because some devs probably chose her of being the most prominent & recognizable (did some high profile gigs for other games) among a bunch of Vox Machina VO actors who did most of VO work for Deadfire.

 

All factions are represented by both sexes:

Huana - the Queen and her brother Prince

Principi - Furrante and Aeldys

RDC - Karu and Atsura

VTC - Castol and Alvari

Edited by Aramintai
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Xoti is a bit of an exception, because she's warm. I think she might be the only warm or vulnerable female NPC I encountered in the game. For whatever reason though, she's very flirty but I was never able to produce a full romantic relationship with her. Might be a bug, IDK, or perhaps you need 5 reputation or something or maybe that's how they intended it. But warm and or vulnerable is a big no no in feminist inspired writing, so it's not _entirely_ progressive. 

There is nothing anti-feminist or unprogressive about warmth or vulnerability as character traits for characters of any gender.

 

Also, reputation levels max out at +2/-2 and Xoti has a full romance. You can look it up on YouTube. 

 

 

Is it a bug then that it never happened for me? I did all the character quest, all the dialogue options, and had a decent reputation and it never became a courting, let alone a relationship. Perhaps I should report this somehow if that's the case. 

 

I agree, although I am not a feminist. I mean really anything can be considered 'feminist" or not depending on how you spin it.

 

But because under intersectionality characters become considered avatars for their demographic by the audience, writers tend to stray away from giving their characters any weakness and therefor depth or room to grow. If a character is too stereotypically feminine, as xoti's traits might be classed, then that can be seen as "disempowering". I mean that's not my perspective, I've just seen this sort of commentary plenty of times, that the preference is for "strong characters".

 

Although I am sure this is also just related to the public hunger for wish forfillment, of which straight men certainly had their fill in the 80s. 

 

It very well could be a bug? I don't know. Either that or you expected more romance content than is in the game. 

 

That isn't a definition of intersectionality that I'm familiar with. It just means that women's experiences with oppression are not uniform and are inextricably linked to other aspects of who they are like social class, ethnic background, nationality, disability, etc. A "strong character" is too nebulously defined to really be a worthwhile category. Maybe if you gave specific examples of writers, media or commentary you are referring to?

 

 

That's easy enough. We were already talking about star wars. But you could arguably say that game of thrones treatment of female characters and male characters is distinct from the books as well. That story has completely diverged from the books, seemingly because of a desire to promote strong female characters. Obviously it's still much better writing that star wars. It's pretty common these days, that you get two dimensional female characters, particularly in action films. It's not entirely distinct, it reminds one of james bond, chuck Norris or neo of the matrix films. It's wish forfillment. But it's fairly common these days in story telling. Typically like james bond, the character is without flaw, a little emotionally cold, generic, doesn't grow, does everything without difficulty.

 

As some counterpoints - westworld's lead has some complexity, originally some frailty and now some darkness. It has strong female characters, but it doesn't entirely shirk the bio sex as a concept - the creators all primarily male for example, as techies typically are. I think this character kind of stands out, because I think they are turning her into a villan, or making her 'loose her way". and female villans are both not that common, and often even more 2 dimensional - sexual, but not creepy, manipulative, attractive etc.

 

The AO is an amazing TV show that deals with transgenderism, and has strong female characters-  but they are filled with confusion doubt, the story doesn't make any assumptions about the audience, and tries to draw you in to those complexities. 

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I think it's about Star Wars VIII, withoutsoul and an agenda of racial quota and ugly women in the Resistance.

You really need help... You seem upset that one of the characters wasn't white - how does that make it an agenda? And which ugly women?

 

The latest star wars Film was great and Rei and fynn (not sure how their names are spelt in the film) are very funny and just what the star wars films needed

 

 

The treatment of luke for example, was completely out of character - dude tries to save his dark side dad, and turns around and tries to kill a child because he might get up to no good.

No, actually, he doesn't. He thinks about it *for a moment*, and then he *chooses not to*. At that point Kylo wakes up, senses the thought, and attacks him.

 

And Luke is *horrified* at himself for even having the thought.

 

 

It's still out of character IMO. The new verson of luke, IMO, doesn't seem to remotely resemble the old version. 

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The first pillars was correct on this point: no intense SJW propaganda IMO (maybe just the Sagani' story with her role of hunter and her husband who stay at home for the children but it's light) and I LIKE THAT SO MUCH.

What the ****?

 

So let me get this straight. A female goes out on an adventure while her husband stays home and that's SJW propaganda?

 

But....why? I don't ****ing understand this. Why does it have be some kind of propaganda for women to go do stuff while men watch the children?

 

Isn't that just people being ****ing people? What, do you demand that no man ever watches children or else it's SJW propaganda? Are men just not allowed to nurture their young or something?

 

im-confused-m08wjd.jpg

 

 

I personally would not make that statement, but in a tribal hunter gatherer society, where the capacity to breed is the basis for your survival as a tribe, typically such groups do not risk the wellbeing of those that can have babies. So that does seem a tad atypical, although it's possible she's past breeding age, and typically the older people in such communities try to stay as useful as humanly possible when they pass reproductive age. 

 

Actually you can see this prototypical "usefulness to the group" manifest in the huana caste system. Although its portrayed as a bad thing.  

Edited by drael6464

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People tend to forget that you can interpret a story in different ways, and how you see it was based on your view, not the writer's.

 

Let's take an example: Barbara Gordon, who gets shot by Joker and has to retire being Batgirl, and becoming Oracle. You can see it as "Women in Refrigerators", where horrible things happen to female character just to push the male character's arc forward; or you can see it as a strong willed woman who overcomes all the awful things life throw at her and still being a hero, even she can't even stand up.

 

And that's the problem lots of people have, they have their own "agenda", so whatever the games shows them, they always interpret it as what they want to believe. Why is purposely making women not good looking while making male characters looking very handsome is "hating men".

Edited by jf8350143
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Eothas is very attractive imo. While that makes me sound like a superficial idiot, it also means that Skaen being hideous is irrelevant when the best looking god is male (and as someone pointed out, Ondra is hideous too). OFC we can argue it's not really him, but the others probably don't really look like what we see either.

I would find it more interesting if Berath and Wael showed male and female aspects, but it's not important enough for me to actually care.

I personally don't like any of the female companions and find the male ones way more interesting/likeable.

I think people like the OP (I've seen others here) have an issue with Huana culture having women as their default leaders making it a matriarchy. Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but all Huana leaders I can think of are female. This is apparently offensive to some males who invest a lot of effort in banging on about third wave feminism. However, hardcore feminists who blame flaws in society on patriarchy would have an issue with what seems to be a matriarchal society having a caste system. Hence Deadfire is pretty neutral on the gender front as far as I can tell.
 


nvAeseu.png

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Xoti is a bit of an exception, because she's warm. I think she might be the only warm or vulnerable female NPC I encountered in the game. For whatever reason though, she's very flirty but I was never able to produce a full romantic relationship with her. Might be a bug, IDK, or perhaps you need 5 reputation or something or maybe that's how they intended it. But warm and or vulnerable is a big no no in feminist inspired writing, so it's not _entirely_ progressive. 

There is nothing anti-feminist or unprogressive about warmth or vulnerability as character traits for characters of any gender.

 

Also, reputation levels max out at +2/-2 and Xoti has a full romance. You can look it up on YouTube. 

 

 

Is it a bug then that it never happened for me? I did all the character quest, all the dialogue options, and had a decent reputation and it never became a courting, let alone a relationship. Perhaps I should report this somehow if that's the case. 

 

I agree, although I am not a feminist. I mean really anything can be considered 'feminist" or not depending on how you spin it.

 

But because under intersectionality characters become considered avatars for their demographic by the audience, writers tend to stray away from giving their characters any weakness and therefor depth or room to grow. If a character is too stereotypically feminine, as xoti's traits might be classed, then that can be seen as "disempowering". I mean that's not my perspective, I've just seen this sort of commentary plenty of times, that the preference is for "strong characters".

 

Although I am sure this is also just related to the public hunger for wish forfillment, of which straight men certainly had their fill in the 80s. 

 

It very well could be a bug? I don't know. Either that or you expected more romance content than is in the game. 

 

That isn't a definition of intersectionality that I'm familiar with. It just means that women's experiences with oppression are not uniform and are inextricably linked to other aspects of who they are like social class, ethnic background, nationality, disability, etc. A "strong character" is too nebulously defined to really be a worthwhile category. Maybe if you gave specific examples of writers, media or commentary you are referring to?

 

 

That's easy enough. We were already talking about star wars. But you could arguably say that game of thrones treatment of female characters and male characters is distinct from the books as well. That story has completely diverged from the books, seemingly because of a desire to promote strong female characters.

Strong female characters are one of the driving facets about the Game of Thrones novels. If anything, the women in the books are *stronger* female characters, with more things to do and more people to do it to--this is especially notable with the Sand Snakes. The only female character in the books who displays typical markers of femininity is Sansa, and...well, that doesn't go well for her.

 

 

 

The first pillars was correct on this point: no intense SJW propaganda IMO (maybe just the Sagani' story with her role of hunter and her husband who stay at home for the children but it's light) and I LIKE THAT SO MUCH.

What the ****?

 

So let me get this straight. A female goes out on an adventure while her husband stays home and that's SJW propaganda?

 

But....why? I don't ****ing understand this. Why does it have be some kind of propaganda for women to go do stuff while men watch the children?

 

Isn't that just people being ****ing people? What, do you demand that no man ever watches children or else it's SJW propaganda? Are men just not allowed to nurture their young or something?

 

im-confused-m08wjd.jpg

 

 

I personally would not make that statement, but in a tribal hunter gatherer society, where the capacity to breed is the basis for your survival as a tribe, typically such groups do not risk the wellbeing of those that can have babies. So that does seem a tad atypical, although it's possible she's past breeding age, and typically the older people in such communities try to stay as useful as humanly possible when they pass reproductive age. 

 

Actually you can see this prototypical "usefulness to the group" manifest in the huana caste system. Although its portrayed as a bad thing.  

 

Sagani is 57, which puts her at middle age for a species with an average lifespan of 110, and has already had five children--so if "breeding" is a factor, then she's already accomplished that. Beyond that, though--it isn't even true. Some hunter-gatherer societies have division of labor like that, other's don't. Among the Aeta people of the Philippines, who are a modern-day hunter/gatherer tribe that live in isolated groups on the tropical jungle-covered mountains, 85% of women hunt together in small groups using dogs and are almost twice as successful at it as the groups of men--although interesting fact, *mixed-gender groups* are the most successful of all.

 

That's on top of the fact that modern archeology has shown that pre-Neolithic homo sapiens were quite a *bit* less patriarchal than used to be thought. Modern anthropology considers the division of labor/housekeeping along sex lines to have originated around the time of the Neolithic Revolution, when agriculture brought an excess of stored food such that half the population *could* be kept out of food production without everybody starving to death.

 

Honestly I think this is an area where having studied, in an academic setting, comparative cultural anthropology has done me some big favors. A *lot* of things people think of as universal human behaviors--like the men hunter/women gatherer division--simply isn't anywhere *close* to universal.

Edited by Katarack21
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