Gromnir

Would you prefer to see the writers posting as Kreia calling everyone "fools and imbeciles?" <{POST_SNAPBACK}> as 'posed to what we get now? yeah... yeah, we would prefer that. josh could be... how shall we say... "prickly" mayhap? nevertheless, folks often read the bis/interplay boards just to get josh's feedback. "I think Mr. Urquhuart's reply was quite civil and honest." yup... his response in THIS thread seemed civil and honest... but for some folks to suggest that he should gets a UN negotiator job 'cause of his diplomacy is... laughable. threaten board closure 'cause of a fit of pique is sorta the equivalent of Gunboat Diplomacy. were hardly completely civil or honest. "I can see why most developers don't keep in such close touch with their communities if they get flamed for it so much. Neither insults nor adoration are real communication. " personally, we cannot see why developers would fail to keep in touch with fans. is just the hypersensitive folks that would be discouraged. given how expensive print ads is, wasting an opportunity/avenue like these boards, a resource with goodwill cultivated and paid for in large part by Black Isle and Interplay, would be the height of folly. *shrug* HA! Good Fun!

novels

reason kotor2 won awards? there were very few crpgs last year... and if folks think that kotor2 were buggy, then consider the competition. vampire:bloodlines? also, in spite of all the complaints, kotor2 was a very good game... new coke v. classic. did not realize that magazine ads had tripled in cost over the last few years... but we did know that they were expensive. is a reason why these boards is a very nice alternative (though hardly a replacement,) for magazine ads. as to fergie's diplomacy... we find that observation to be somewhat ironic given his recent threats of board closure... but we does admit that fergie is one of obsidian's few recognizable voices that actually gots some personality when he posts... which is kinda odd considering the number of writers obsidian gots. HA! Good Fun!

No, but the Force does seem to cause an awful lot of treason and betrayal. In the real world we don't have U.S. Army officers signing up with al-Qaeda, but the equivalent happens all the time with Jedi knights. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> the big difference, from kreia's point of view, is choice... free will. force users = force slaves. the force seeks balance.... and it bends and breaks people to achieve that end. how many aspiring tyrants has risen or fallen simply 'cause of the force's demand for some sorta metaphysical equilibrium? kreia, understandably did not enjoy being a pawn... a slave. HA! Good Fun!

again, not relevant as to the question of whether or not kreia is evil. HA! Good Fun!

"Whether Kreia was good or bad really wasn

OK, I'm being a little facetious. But doesn't she have a point? Wouldn't the ordinary people of the galaxy be better off without all these Force users running around? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> could get the same result with nihilus... gobble up all the force users. kreia was looking at big picture... she hated the force itself. the force as a quasi-sentient entity that controlled and altered events and people to achieve the suspect goal of balance. we agree that the galaxy would be better w/o the force, but kreia's motives seemed more... personal? she blamed her own downfall on the force, and she wanted payback... no matter the cost. HA! Good Fun!

as to the original query 'bout why bio did not do... announced reason: bio didn't choose to do a kotor2 'cause they did not wish to work on licensed products anymore. we suspect that bio also saw what many of us fans noticed... that a kotor2 sequel would be problematic on multiple levels. much of kotor success were based on nostalgia, helped along by backlash following episode 1 and 2. folks liked the original sw flicks and they were disappointed with the new movies... so bioware cooked up stories and characters and plot points that were lifted directly from the original flicks. with the aid of lucas, bio were able to make the game look and sound kewl. little emphasis was placed on making combat challenging and the rules simply existed to make powerful jedi characters w/o real concern for balance n' such. again, the goal seemed to be kewlness. those who would choose to make a sequel to kotor would not have the advantages o' nostalgia in the same way bio did with kotor... that pony only does one trick, but if they chose to use the same engine the developer in question would be stuck with all the obvious disadvantages that came with it. no doubt bio saw what Gromnir did

josh were sick and tired of crpgs... is not like he got stuck working at midway. were a pretty good gig for a guy who were a junior developer on one successful game, lead on two games that tanked, and were part of a team that cancelled 3 other games. regardless, the point is that josh was widely recognized in the gamer community... and that recognition was more a matter of his visibility on boards than due to his r

"Interaction with fans is'nt part of their job description." true enough... but if there ain't no interaction then there ain't no point in having boards. "your developers is not rock stars or sports idols, but they is the next best thing in these message board circles." we distinctly recall using the word "not." not rock stars. not sports idols. regardless, the developers manages to attract fans on these boards simply by being seen. recall when josh quit? we suddenly had a dozen news sites reporting on the "incident," and hundreds of posts popped up at bis and elsewhere asking if bis were now dead. dave m had quit a short time earlier and we never heard a peep 'bout it. ask self why there were different perception. *shrug* again, if you not have feedback, then there ain

perspective: Gromnir has, over the years, been the target of accusations from bis/obsidian developers and presidents n' such... accusations that looks real familiar when you look at phos' list. we has discovered just how meaningless those lists are. is a progression... almost always the same. firstest, the developer/organization will claim that they not mind criticism, even harsh criticism, as long as is thoughtful. 'course, when the thoughtful multi-page criticisms come rolling in, the organization is far from happy or satisfied. feedback need now be more than thoughtful... if you is gonna be critical w/o supplying practical solutions then you has supplied no constructive criticism at all. point out that you DID make suggestions of alternatives/solutions and the developer still complains that you is too antagonistic, etc... regardless, the average poster does not have degrees in computer science or english... chances are that they will have a very difficult time describing what was wrong with the kotor2 ending and the likelihood that they will come up with practical solutions to framerate problems seems even more doubtful. when a consumer feels that a product did not meet their expectations they wish to complain 'bout it... but chances are that they does not have the tools to give particularly insightful feedback... so they do the best they can... or the worst. they says, "the ending sucked." is they wrong for doing so? should those folks who not have mfa in english be precluded from posting on story issues? should folks w/o cs degrees be barred from discussing technical concerns. should folks who has not published their own rules system be prevented from complaining of balance issues? everybody wanna believe that they can accept criticism... even harsh criticism. very few can. have no more to say on this issue... 'less somebody from obsidian wanna respond. HA! Good Fun!

"Well, it's my impression that Feargus had wanted a more robust community, a place where people would talk about things with merit and substance, and not be filled with spam, flames, whining, griping, indignation and arrogant demands." nonsense. if every other post was simply along the lines of, "d00d! UR 50 kewl and your game r0x0rz," there would be no time spent considering the closure of the boards. that kinda spam is ok. however, when the comments is negative they is relegated to the status of, "spam, flames, whining, griping, indignation and arrogant demands." pardon our whining indignation, but Gromnir, as often as not, has been the target of complaints concerning many of those things listed 'bove, and we has seen just how fickle those handing out the labels can be. "YOU SUCK DONKEY BALLS," were the example fergie supplied as the kinda thing he found offensive. harsh criticism were ok as long as it have substance... or so he claimed. the donkey balls posts is, in point of fact, a relatively insignificant minority of total posts. however, it is true that virtually any negative post directed at obsidian can be described as being composed of, "whining, griping, indignation and arrogant demands." *shrug* as we has noted 'fore, as soon as these boards become more trouble than they is worth, they will be closed down. boards is cheap and effective advertising/marketing of obsidian product. if it not seem like the right message is being communicated 'bout obsidian products, then we can see why fergie would wanna put the kibosh on 'em. if it becomes significantly more expensive to maintain the boards, then they may no longer be so cost effective... benefits no longer outweigh costs. regardless, the ultimate problem arises from the fact that the spammers and flamers and complainers is NEGATIVE... but fergie surely ain't gonna say that the boards is being closed 'cause of surprising 'mounts of negative backlash following kotor2. where is diogenes when you need

if they close for the reasons stated, then we not give a darn if they ever reopen. we think that much of the criticism being directed at obsidian over kotor2 is unnecessary and ill-founded

well, we do believe that the notion of moving the obsidian community to codex is as ludicrous a suggestion as when exitum nominated himself as a prospective Obsidian moderator long time ago. *shudder* HA! Good Fun!

folks like to drag tolkien into these discussions, and we not know why. how many spells did gandalf ever cast in lotr? the protagonists get very little description in lotr. regardless, can you create a rpg system with no levels at all? sure you can. the rpg purists often turn up their noses at such tawdry and mundane things like leveling. is all

150 in how many years? HA! okie dokie. just seems like lots 'cause exit is usually on the sharp and pointy end of our posts. "NMA and codex arn't generally fans of this board, fyi. They think people on this board suck up too much.......which is why Feargus is threating to close it down.....because of all the ass kissing. It's just disgusting and he won't stand for it. " ok, that made us chuckle. HA! Good Fun!

Well, that is the challenge of making good multi-path games. And it can be done. Fallout 2, for example, lets you choose many different paths, not one of them containing an amnesiac, if memory doesn't fail me. Of course, I don't know if you would describe FO2 as a protagonist focused story, so maybe I might be writing this without knowing the proper context ... But multi-pathing has been achieved in the past, and in a more complex way than KOTOR. It certainly involves a L O T of work and might not be the most profitable endeavour for a software company, but it is possible to provide different layers of story for different player reactions. I just don't see why it is necessary to complicate things by always giving the Main Character a complex past in addition to a complex future. Your Shaw signature, by the way: Is that from Man and Superman? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> the protagonist's story is pretty weak in fo2, and in point of fact, there is not much real multi-pathing of the protagonist's story in fo2. fo2 is able to create the illusion of non-linearity by having very few essential plot advancing points in the game... which is not a criticism on Gromnir's part. we happen to think that such an approach is viable if done well. we just not happen to think that Most of the writing in fo2 was particularly compelling... and the core story writing were typically kinda disappointing. fo2 is not a good example of how you can makes a great story

"Impossible? Why not simply give us a character without a past? Must we always have an experienced veteran with lots of stories to tell that he then has to forget about since they would also have to depend on the players preferences? Why not play a young Padawan that still has all the choices ahead of him? Why not play a young Jedi Knight that has to choose sides in a war, like Revan's initial decision? Why not have a Force Sensitive who has the freedom to choose a teacher?" doesn't change anything. past or future, you run into same problem. you write a protagonist focused story where the protagonist can choose to be good or bad or diplomatic or sneaky and you is gonna always have problems. how you write A story for an infinite variety of characters? yeah, if you got a story of self-discovery where the protagonist is special, then the past will always be a factor... will always be prophecies or some other such nonsense, but the problem remains with or without the issues of the past recollection. HA! Good Fun!

"I sort of agree with what your both getting at." don't throw us in with drak. we disagree with his approach. we agree on the problem, but hardly 'bout the solutions. taking character generation out of the hands of the player is hardly necessary and doing so results in a game that is less an crpg and more of an adventure game. HA! Good Fun!

a couple of quick observations

"Yes, your character's capabilities increase - at the same level that your opponent's capabilites do. The oft-cited analogy of a treadmill is accurate." hardly. a typical low level mage has a very small spell repertoire. the higher level mage is not limited to sleep or magic missile as his only combat spells. he might have mind dominating spells or fireballs or lightning bolts or poison cloud type stuff... and he will have an opportunity to use those spells in the appropriate situations. that low level mage's party mates is equally limited in their chosen classes. a fighter in d&d may be able to use all martial weapons at level 1, but he can only use basic vanilla attacks with each o' those weapons.... no bull rushes or whirlwind attacks or rapid shots. heck, even if your 1st level fighter does have power attack chances is he ain't gonna use it much, 'cause his bab sucks so bad. the fact that your enemies get tougher as your character levels is a pointless observation. 'course the enemies get tougher... they has to get tougher if game is gonna continue to be challenging and fun. however, leveling for the pc inevitably results in more options for the pc (both in terms of character development and viable tactics) for the character... and more options (if balanced,) is always a good thing. HA! Good Fun!

people like to level. we can take or leave, but if Gromnir were designing a crpg rule system we would have quick leveling... lots of levelling. 'course, there is no reason why a 20th level character need be particularly powerful. a rabid wolf could be a 10th level encounter if that is what you wants. a dragon might be a 100th level encounter. it not matter, but the point is that the you can has as many or as few levels as you wish... the main difficulty would be making such a fast level-up experience rewarding and balanced. d&d is not the only system. d&d has established that a 20th level character is extremely powerful. some demon lords gots CRs in the low 20s. d&d is a crappy system for a crpg in part 'cause it takes so few levels to become Superman in Chainmail. HA! Good Fun!