Gromnir

It's amazingly ugly. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> and very little of it is chinese. take a russian/soviet su-27 engine and pop it into the israeli Lavi... which itself is a modified u.s.a. f-16 HA! Good Fun!

ok, well, duh. So are lots of various investors. Not all of them nessasarily bringing "American" values or having to answer to the American people. Like when Microsoft (I think it was MS) help the Chinese gov censor words like "freedom" on the internet. My point wasn't that US companies are solely driving the chinese market, but that US companies have a unique role to play in this. as I said, we're already there. Edit: to a degree Want to venture a guess who is number one in human rights violations and in the bottom five of press freedoms? I'm guessing China doesn't get "nicer" when it gets more powerful. Without, of course, some serious reforms. Those reforms would, of course, very likely hurt the chinese economy badly for some time to come. As I said, interesting, isn't it? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "My response was in reference of Groms question about what will Europe do when China rises in power. My thought: Align themselves closer with the US and vice versa. " align with u.s.a to combat growing chinese influence? HA! so no, we don't really agree... at least not as far as Gromnir can tell. HA! Good Fun!

"What I want to see is what part American corporations wnd up playing in all this. Not from a "corporations are evil" perspective, but just because they seem to play a very interesting role in all of this. They help support Chinese expansion in many regards while spreading american ideas." you is being foolish if you think it is just american corps. the euros is falling all over themselves to get access to chinese markets. cold war 2? not a chance. HA! Good Fun!

What happened when Russia became a superpower? besides that scenario, while possible, isn't NEARLY as probable as the scared masses seem to believe. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> russia were never a real super power. russia/ussr was a military super power that were doomed from start. china situation is different.... much different. btw, the observation 'bout chinese rappers is noteworthy in the present discussion 'cause back in the 80s Gromnir were sure that rap were just a fad.... shows what we know. HA! Good Fun!

am counting on the stupidity and incompetence in our guesstimate... otherwise, we woulda' said 10-15 years. HA! Good Fun!

you know, it is gonna be kinda fun to watch how things change over the next 25-50 years. one wonders how euro envy of america's world power status will change as china slowly begins to dominate the globe economically and culturally. HA! Good Fun!

"Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. " what is wrong with the aforementioned? the sad thing is that we s'pose most Americans won't even recognize the mistake, so we ain't sure that our bringing it up is more effective as a criticism of cleese's piece, or a validation of it. in any event, we like the english. there is something profoundly uplifting in the realization that such an insecure and unattractive people managed to dominate the world for a substantial period of time. is like a horatio alger story. HA! Good Fun!

as long as you jokers keep buying games that is buggy, game developers will continue to make 'em. game companies track this stuff close. after ps:t's buggy release, did fans get cautious? were there initial hesitance to buy iwd, a game that would have similar fans as ps:t? after atari released toee or nwn did they see fans shy away from thir subsequent releases? am guessing that for all the venom and vitriol fans direct at publishers and developers following a buggy release, those fans do little else to back up their threats. next game gets released, and fans go out and buy on day 1... same as it ever was. collectively, fans o' pc games is getting older and better educated... so why is we so damned stoopid. as a group we continue to curse and scream 'bout bugs... but then we not change our buying practices at all. stoopid. HA! Good Fun!

"I think a big problem with gaming (I refer mostly to RPGs) and their stories is because it's all so segmented. After all, the devs have to cater to both gameplay and story, often reinforcing the former to the detriment of the latter (which is especially bad when the former is tedious and dull). They cut the game in arbitrary sections, following obsolete gaming conventions that SHOULDN'T still be followed." is not really arbitrary sections. you got the level boss mentality working in most games... and a story can be developed well 'nuff this way. heck, you can go backs to beowulf and use as a blueprint for level boss game story. 'course, one s'poses that part o' the problem is in how a person defines story. some folks (folks who thinks the silmarillion and the prose eddas is height o' story telling,) seem content to have plot drive story... almost to exclusion o' all else. other folks thinks character development is what counts.... and for these folks, the main character can dig a hole in his backyard for 400 pages and such a book might be worthy of a pulitzer. personally, we cares more for character development, 'specially in fantasy where in plot will inevitably be kinda inane, but is not like we ignore plot neither. however, we has seen that some developers got this preoccupation with plot as story.... read the dialogue they create for their characters. *groan* is more than a few disabled developers out there who somehow has been given the task of writing dialogues and developing characters in games. crpgs got some limitations as far as making good plot

that ain't a problem. tennis and football is sports, and they is also games. tetris? is a game. is not a problem that some games lack story. also, it ain't really a problem that some stories make for bad games. anybody here feels particularly sad that a "death of a salesman" game has/will never be made. so what? even so, we thinks that good story ain't the white hart that some is suggesting... and while Gromnir seems to expect more from game stories than does josh, we not think that we is being the least bit unreasonable. the real problem is that the mythical average gamer that josh were describing earlier, the one that wants short games, also not really care too much 'bout meaningful story. sure, that average gamer wants some story, but they not need something particularly memorable. there is a relatively low standard that is good enough as far as the average gamer is concerned... and the developers has come to realize this. so, the average game for the average gamer has an average story with a few intriguing characters, that explains why the gamer must kill swarms o' mutants or terrorists or poodles... and that is what is the meaning of good story nowadays. ultimately, it is up to fans to tell developers what we want

got it... just figured that it were... helpful to clarify your clarification. am not blaming on josh, but Gromnir has often 'nuff heard how gamers want shorter games. such an observation is made frequently by crpg developers who is currently developing crpgs. heck, they may even post such observations on their crpg development company's message boards. Is like they is playing the old shell game

so again, it ain't that crpg fans want short games... is just the mythical average gamer. let us not lose sight o' that. so when a developer of crpgs explains that gamers want shorter games

this explanation would make perfect sense... if there were only one kind of game/gamer. in the 70s, people wanted cars that got better gas mileage, so auto makers made cars that were smaller and lighter and more aerodynamic, etc. however, ferrari not try to make a gas efficient sports car, and while ford and chevy tried to produce gas efficient trucks, the average farmer kansas still needed a vehicle with some muscle. trite oversimplification? sure. the average gamer wants all those things josh stated 'bove, but is that what the average crpg player wants? as much as we hear that the average gamer wants a 20-30 hour game... tops, we has met very few crpg players that want such games. *shrug* am not sure where developers get their data, but it just not seem to take into account the expectation of crpg fans. 'course, Gromnir recognizes that he is dealing with mostly gut feeling and anecdotal evidence, but while crpg fans we see across multiple boards seem willing to accept games of 40 hours, they surely not want 20-30 hour games. HA! Good Fun!

get your hands on, "Duran Duran: The First Four Years of the Fab Five." bet he gets a chuckle out of you asking him to sign it. HA! Good Fun!

is good reason we didn't answer. is how many different writers that worked on ps:t? kotor2? how many different and largely independent stories did ps:t and kotor2 have? kreia, were a character we liked as much as any joinable character in ps:t... though on occasion her dialogue made us groan. on the other hand, fall-from-grace were just plain crap... a one-trick pony (story wise,) and that trick were pretty pathetic. the mystery that is woman... bah. overall, ps:t is our favorite crpg, but it had many flaws, and much of the writing were... hokey. nevertheless, in spite of the bad, the good in ps:t were very good. ... is an exercise some creative writing teachers use for those young writers who seems overly impressed with their own fortune cookie philosophies... an exercise we highly recommend. tell the disabled writer to rewrite their story (or a portion of the story,) as if they were writing to an 8 year old audience. HA! Good Fun!

Care to give an example? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> already did. HA! Good Fun!

"Would you want that in place of the tutorial? Or as part of the actual story?" why need the two be separate... and we not see why there would be any problem in making the genesis portion o' the game fit into larger story. most heroic stories spend considerable time talking 'bout the origins of "Chesty McVargas, Knight Templar" or whoever you got as the protagonist. this were one of the few suggestions we made on the old board that tiffin thought were a good one

"Now, what if such a 'tutorial' was a full-blown scenario? What if character creation took 5 hrs, for example? How much 'character creation' are players willing to go through before actually tackling the 'real game'? I'm sure many RPG players are fans of character creation, but is there such a thing as too much of it - regardless of how it's being fleshed out?" have been asking for this kinda thing since bg2 were in development... and we has gotten almost 0 developer response, regardless of the mechanic being suggested to implement, and in spite of the fact that whenever the notion has been suggested, there has always been at least some support for the idea. other than race and gender, you can make virtually every aspect of character generation part of the playable game. HA! Good Fun!

"I don't think PS:T and KotOR2 suffered from the same problem. PS:T had great dialogue, flavor text, and story-telling throughout. " when ps:t had characters explain their philosophies, it got a bit... stoopid. comic book stoopid. which maybe is ok given the audience. in ps:t it were also, to a certain degree, necessary as tthe setting were built 'pon a "philosophy for dummies" kinda thing and with a crpg you not always got the time (or the audience) to allow folks to experience... sometimes you gotta take the short-cut and just tell. nevertheless, reading coaxmetal dialogue were a chore. it were just awful. *click, click, click* were dozens of such encounters in ps:t, and while some were necessary, (such as when you get introduced to various factions, ) others were just lame. compare dialogues in ps:t to those in "grendel." better yet, compare to "rosencrantz and guildenstern are dead." a writer can get as philosophical and profound as they wish to w/o resorting to their characters spouting profound speeches... and if a speech is necessary, an audience will accept it better from a character they know as a person, to give the speech context and simply 'cause we is more likely to care 'bout what a known character is saying. you see henry struggle with being a king, sacrificing friendship and lives in the name of some goal that even he ain't certain of no more. you spend the better part of an hour watching henry laugh and cry and bleed and you is maybe more willing to listen to his speech. but place henry's pre-battle speech at start o' henry V... when ps:t had human characters involved in human activities and displaying human emotions, it were great. talk with morte after pillar of skulls. talk with dak'kon 'bout why he follows. talk with mebbeth after returning to sigil. ps:t were a story 'bout a immortal guy wandering the planes, choosing 'tween philosophies and fighting bizarre creatures, etc. whatever. ultimately, every story worth telling is a human one and a familiar one. not matter if your protagonist is a overweight alcoholic anglican woman from podunk missouri or a quasi-sentient puddle of noxious gasses and frozen liquids existing in five dimensions simultaneously, 'cause in either case you is gonna have to try and make the reader care 'bout what is happening to the protagonist. the reader needs to empathize even if it is only enough to despise the character. kotor2 had lots of characters making speeches with their dialogues... and people rarely make speeches when they talk with each other. even shakespeare rarely had his characters make speeches

"Jade Empire is a good game, at any rate, so who cares? Oh, that's right, we're in a pissing contest regarding whether Jade Empire gets a pass for brevity or KotOR 2 gets a pass for writing. Ridiculous. :madr:" this thread is so far off-topic by now that we feel little guilt over joining with the mob. as to kotor2 writing... some was good... and some were just terrible. ... young writers and bad writers and writers of comic books often makes their characters talk strangely. such writers tries to make their characters say profound things in the hopes that maybe their writing will reveal some profound truth

*groan* HA! Good Fun!

will somebody say something 'bout josh? he is a sabre fighter, so he can't be all bad, right? HA! Good Fun!

Does that mean you own either company and/or are working on the game? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> what an interesting leap. well, not so much interesting as amusing. Gromnir is a consumer... am the person they make games for. drak said he were worried, 'bout nwn2 'cause of guidelines.... an we responded that we feared the guidelines not at all. one wonders at how drag gots so far off course... 'cause it sure weren't Gromnir who led you so far afield. is best to nip your foolishness in the bud. HA! Good Fun!

"Actually there is another problem with NwN2 for me. WotC and Hasbro are not giving that much freedom of content (that comes from hearing Troika, BioWare and even BIS staff comments) with leads to knowing whatever its end up being, its going to be aproved by WotC and Hasbro to be "safe"." not this crap again... other than the troika incompetents, every developer has noted that the wotc "guidelines" ain't a limitation on making a good d&d game. heck, recent d&d games has had evil options and slavery and drug use and all those things folks claimed were impossible... and even if you avoid that stuff you can still have a good game. is a bs crutch... 'specially since there ain't no real guidelines. those guidelines is applied ad hoc... which means they ain't no guidelines at all. did wotc screw bis over? sure... but unless you can point to recent obsidian comments that suggest that wotc has got their foot on the back of fergie's neck, then we say, "bs." heck, the fact that josh is back at obsidian suggests that your fears is unfounded... as josh had more of an axe to grind over wotc guidelines than anybody else at obsidian. if josh really thought that wotc guidelines doomed nwn2, his return woulda' been less likely, no? guidelines is hardly a serious fear for Gromnir. HA! Good Fun!

could not finish jade empire. same thing happened to us with fable... got 90% through game, and just couldn't stay interested 'nuff to finish. we had some medical problems recently that kept us on our arse far more than usual... finally had an excuse to play pc games and 'course we had nothing worth playing... so we replayed ps:t and bg2 and dark omens and every pc chess program we got. we were gonna try and play iwd2... never finished that game neither. unfortunately we got all sorts o' wacky performance problems with that game... games on the horizon... not a damned thing... which is just plain wrong. HA! Good Fun!