kanisatha

Yes this is what I'm pinning my hopes on as well.

I wish classes could remain, but I can see it going classless, especially if there is no party and you are trying to gather many different abilities into one character. But I'm also hopeful that at least some form of companions, like in TOW, will be included.

Told ya' So excited for this game.

If this is a competitor to TES, shouldn't it have the option of playing third-person? I agree the game looks fantastic. The first-person part is the only thing I dislike here.

I've seen several of you post on the Assassin's Creed games in this and other threads, so would like to get some feedback from anyone about those games. Right now on Steam AC: Origins is 80% off and AC: Odyssey is 67% off, and so I was considering getting them. Any thoughts on these games, both positive and negative? In particular, should I bother with Origins, or else ignore that game and go straight to Odyssey? And also, I know they began introducing RPG elements only from Origins, so do these games actually have decent RPG value or else are they just mostly hack and slash action games with little of note outside of combat? Many thanks in advance.

Yup, and a spinoff is what I am expecting here. No doubt I would love a PoE3 someday because I love both previous games and expect to be replaying those games for years to come. But from a broader, non-personal, objective pov, if I were Obsidian, a spinoff is the direction I would take.

^This I am well aware of. Just wasn't sure how the concept of IP was being applied to videogame franchises. Your take does help. Thanks. Yes I also would've loved a PoE3. But if Obsidian's choices are (a) PoE3 with TB combat and other nonsense along the lines of Larian's take on BG3, or (b) a spinoff first/third-person open-world AAA Skyrim-style game, then sadly I am very much for (b) over (a).

Again, I need to repeat, I am NOT suggesting at all that this would be a game carrying the title of "Pillars of Eternity." It would NOT be called PoE anything. But the setting's history and mythology are not finite. Obsidian can continue to add and expand on all of that lore. I don't see any reason to view the lore of the setting as tied to the existing PoE games. Heck this game could even be in a timeline well before PoE1. It could be in the time of the Engwithans! Sure. But you also don't want too many IPs such that they just languish. Huge RPG studios like Bethesda, Bioware, and CDPR are operating with only a very small number of IPs that they keep going back to, and creating a new IP is considered a very big deal. But here again, I think we all are having some confusion about what is an IP, i.e. the definition of an IP. As an example, using the Baldur's Gate games, is "Baldur's Gate" the IP, or is "D&D" the IP? For me, I've always thought of it as "D&D" is the IP, and "BG" is one game franchise (among many) within that IP. But I have no idea. It could well be the exact opposite. I am not even close to being an expert on any of this legalese.

But as a fantasy RPG, why would they go to a new IP when they already have the PoE IP? And just to clarify, when I say "PoE IP" I mean using the setting and lore of PoE, not another game in the same series as PoE1 and 2. And yes, I also would expect that it will be "Skyrim" only in very general ways, and unlike Skyrim will have all those strong RPG elements that Obsidian is known for.

Is this credible? https://www.altchar.com/game-news/obsidians-next-aaa-skyrim-like-rpg-to-be-announced-at-xbox-event-this-month-abdVi4x5L11N If so, the game could be using the PoE IP but as a solo-play, first-person, open-world game I suppose. Don't know how I feel about that.

Yes I worry about this too. I can see many gamers having bought and played P:Km, had their frustrations with it, and as a result won't give P:WotR a chance. The Owlcat devs have gone to great lengths to listen to feedback and change their approach to many aspects of the game going into the second game, and so I hope people will keep an open mind. Well, the way I look at this is through a person's ego. Most people will consider it perfectly appropriate to write reviews complaining about bugs or other game-breaking systemic issues. But to put in writing a complaint that a game's mechanics and rules were too complicated and unintuitive for you to be able to understand and figure out what's going on? I feel most people will not say that out loud. Absolutely. I never buy the notion that a single variable can explain everything with respect to an issue involving human behavior. Models of human behavior are automatically multivariate for me. My theory is just meant to pull out one aspect that I personally feel was significant ... but by no means the ONLY thing. ^This. There are shades of grey in how people react to things. A person doesn't have to passionately hate something to feel a need to walk away from it. It can be a more subdued reaction along the lines of: 'Hey, it's not a terrible game. But it's not an awesome game either. It's just so-so. And given that in today's gaming world I have a TON of games available to play, I don't want to waste my time on a so-so game.'

Because, as I have explained, they experienced it in the first game. If game 1 was a certain way, it is reasonable to assume game 2 will be that way too.

I wouldn't say it's about becoming more dumb per se (though it could be that too I suppose). I think it is more that people today lack patience and the ability to commit to something or the willingness to make the effort to try to understand something that is not readily apparent to them. And they also crave instant gratification. As for PoE being intuitive and understandable to you, yes absolutely. It was that way for me too, and I dare say to most people active in this forum. But I don't at all, not even in the slightest, see the people in this forum as being representative of the overall RPG gamer population.

I agree. Glad you raised that. And for the record, there was similarly (though in the opposite direction) a difference in the sales of D:OS1 and D:OS2. This point is important. So, here's what my theory would say. Both PoE1 and D:OS1 had new, unfamiliar rules/mechanics. Neither one of them was D&D/D20, the most widely familiar old-school RPG ruleset out there. As such, people cautiously tested the waters with both games: 'Hey, these games don't have mechanics I'm familiar with, but they both say they are of the same family as the old IE games, which I liked, so let me give them a try,' Note that both PoE1 and D:OS1 had roughly similar, good sales numbers - about 1 million give or take. Then, once they experienced both those games, people reacted rather differently to them. With D:OS1 the reaction was: 'This is different from what is familiar to me, but I can easily and intuitively understand how everything works.' So most people who bought and played the first game happily embraced the second game, and in the process also encouraged newcomers to pick up the game. By contrast, the reaction for PoE1 was: 'This is different from what is familiar to me, and I cannot easily and intuitively understand how everything works, and as a result the game mechanics are extremely frustrating to me.' So many people who bought and played the first game found it not to their liking and opted not to embrace the second game. It was not that they were angry with the first game or hated it or anything like that, and therefore did not have any particular motivation to dump on the game in a review of it. But they just shrugged and said 'no thanks' to a second helping of the game. And the irony of it all is at least some of those people who played the first game but not the second game would probably have liked the second one given, as you correctly note, the many improvements made to the second game. More's the pity. So anyway, this then is the totality of my theory. It is a theory. I don't have any data to back it up. But I feel confident it is solid.

Sorry, I don't think this logic holds. I'm one of those who believes PoE2 struggled with sales because too many gamers found the rules too complicated and unintuitive. Yes, both P:Km and PoE have complicated and often unintuitive rules. But there is a major difference between them. P:Km is based on D&D 3.5e, and as such has a built-in base of hardcore fans who are familiar with and like that system, complicated and unintuitive as it may be. But PoE rules were something new and unfamiliar, and not that many people were willing to invest time and effort into gaining a working understanding of them. Therefore, my theory is that complicated and unintuitive rules/mechanics does deter many of today's gamers from wanting to play an RPG, but that this is mitigated by people being somewhat familiar with those rules. So, three, not two, categories of RPGs (in this context): games with rules that are uncomplicated and intuitive (ex. D:OS2 - strong sales); games with rules that are complicated and unintuitive, but also familiar (ex. P:Km - moderate sales); and, games with rules that are complicated and unintuitive, and also unfamiliar (ex. PoE2 - weak sales).

I think a lot of gamers' view is that first-person is what gives you the greatest amount of immersion in the world in an RPG, and this view has now seeped into the mindset of RPG developers. I personally disagree very strongly and also prefer third-person but as with everything else so too here, my view/preference is in the minority apparently. And first-person is just too jarring and confusing and frustrating a perspective for me to be able to handle such that I enjoy the game.

Yeah you're right. I didn't click on the images to take a closer look. In any case, seems like Obsidian is all about first-person perspective with their games these days (the job ads recently highlighted by people specifically mention first-person melee combat). So I probably won't get to play another Obsidian game for a long time to come. Sucks for me.

Could be the historical RPG Sawyer's been wanting to make.

Again, I totally get this. If it were real life, I would absolutely want and expect that our first ship captains out there exploring the galaxy be consummate pros. But in a TV show I am able to set aside my disbelief and embrace my inner child's sense of wonder and awesomeness. Maybe it is a very personal thing. For me, Star Trek and other similar shows are not just cool science fiction. From the time I was a little kid, age around six or seven, I have been fascinated by space travel and exploration, and even started reading Arthur C. Clark's books about that time (met him once too a few years later). Always wanted to grow up to be an astronaut. When that dream became unrealistic, I settled for being an aerospace engineer so I could build spaceships. But as an international student in the U.S. and not a citizen, that didn't work out either, and my career path went a different direction. But to this day, I find myself staring at the stars on a clear night, and remain totally fascinated by what might be out there. Nothing here on Earth even comes close to interesting me or capturing my imagination as much as what may be out there. I would give everything I have for a seat on a Mars flight.

Okay, I can see where you're coming from, but for me it's a matter of context and perspective. You have to imagine what it would be like to be one of the first human spaceship captains going out there into deep space following first contact with alien civilizations. Don't know about you but I can tell you if it were me I would literally be the proverbial kid in a candy store, totally giddy and slap-happy with delight every single minute. I think that's what you see with Archer, and I can relate to that.

Yet another thing where my preferences place me in the minority. I loved Enterprise, loved both Archer and T'Pol as characters, and yes even liked the theme song! So it really bothered me that the Trekkie purists attacked the show so much that it ended up getting the axe. The things I love always end up getting the axe.

This is exactly what struck me when I recently re-watched the series. Those Marquis related episodes in the final season were awful, and I lost a lot of respect for SIsko's character and found myself rooting for the Marquis and against Starfleet.

But you cannot transfer games you already bought through Origin to Steam even after linking your two accounts. I have all three DA games in Origin, and as much as I'd love to have them consolidated into my Steam library I cannot on principle justify re-buying them. So, sadly, this is no help to me.

Sadly, have to wait until tomorrow.

Really? Out here it is like 90% IPA. I don't mind IPAs, but prefer other types more and so it's a constant battle with my beer store to get them to stock more non-IPA types.