thelee

hoo boy, if your googlefu is good someone many years ago commented on it, and had a mod that removed the need for shot on the run. there's definitely a penalty, but sorry no specifics. i tried to find the thread but had no luck. as for reloading progress - AFAICT the progress is saved, but there's a minimum reload time. the character has to animate - that animation can be really sped up to try to match up with the "true" remaining time, but there's a hard minimum threshold that they can't be sped up beyond. so iirc you can indefinitely delay reload by moving your character as they're wrapping up their reload. (there's a gun where one if its enchantments that can eliminate recovery does nothing because of this minimum reload time) edit: i found the original post. actually it was about pillars of eternity 1. there, the recovery penalty was +50%. no indiciation what the number is in deadfire. my best intuition based on the numbers involved is that the ranged recovery penalty in deadfire is +100%: 1. combat is generally intuitively considered/targeted at half speed of poe1 2. in poe1, the known penalty was +50% and the equivalent talent was -25% 3. probably implies they 2x-ed the numbers, +100% penalty given that the ranger talent is now -50% knowing what i know about how (in)consistently the designers tracked inversions, i would not be surprised if the net effect of shot on the run is that it completely eliminates the penalty (since -50% with inversions would cancel out +100% in penalties) edit 2: in poe1, i think it was a matter that the recovery only slowed down while moving, whereas anecdotally in deadfire it feels like the moment i have a ranged character move, their recovery slows down and doesn't go back to normal speed until i do another shot.

yeah, the -35% penalty--apart from being buried deep in the game mechanics--is hard to reason about, at the time it got added in, i saw it mostly as a "don't make 2w obviously the best choice across all weapon styles". so imo the penalty shouldn't be seen so much as a penalty to worry about, just as something trying to keep the power level in place so you don't feel like a complete dummy if you decide to do 2h weapons for offense instead. they did the same for turn-based mode, except across the board. (1h style is still unfortunately a very niche offense style)

i missed this thread until i got tagged in it. thanks for the kind words about the FAQ in general, and also i fully am open that my guide may have big holes in it - i definitely cannot grab all the meta or interactions that might be really relevant, i just try my best, it is also now an extremely huge piece of text and it's not always obvious to me what might need updating. in addition, the SA was written really extremely early in the game's metagame history. while i still stand by it as a general thinking of the class, since then a lot more interactions and optimizations for it have been found (including simply just that it benefits from weapon damage bonuses, which wasn't obviously known at the time, which i updated to add but didn't really expand on the ramifications of) that can make specific approaches sing really well instead of just as a focus dump. i'll take the criticism and make sure to update the language a bit more thoroughly the next time i have enough pending changes to make an update.

yes, like i said the math gets very complicated when you start adding in bonuses. the inversion nature of -35% penalty makes the math non-linear. the penalty is really really severe if you don't have enough bonuses to cancel out the inversion (you need ~+50% of damage bonuses to cancel it out), it's a worse drag than a multiplicative penalty, but then once you overwhelm it you get 1 for 1 gain out of every additional damage bonus - a massive step change. it's also the fact that we're not comparing a 1h attack against a 2w attack in a real situation - i was using that just to illustrate what the net effect on a vanilla 2w attack after penalties are compared. in reality, you're probably comparing a 2h weapon to a 2w setup or (for a very niche or off-meta build) a 1h weapon to a 2w setup, and that adds more complications (a 2h has +1 PEN and effectively is a like 1h attack but with a 30% multiplicative damage boost plus a +15% additive damage boost, a 1h has +12 acc and a hit->crit rate). my head is starting to hurt. anyway it doesn't change the tl;dr that dual-wielding full attacks are generally advantageous across the board compared to alternatives for various reasons, and also damage is not really the main window one should be thinking about in terms of abilities, since OP was asking about ability selection. versus weapon styles; for weapon styles, i would dual-wield a rogue simply because i want to maximize the number of chances of landing a debuff or interrupting an enemy, versus trying to optimize the damage for like a handful of abilities you get to use throughout the course of a long fight. but for ability selection, i really don't think one should care whether or not an ability is a full attack or a primary attack. edit: rather, i think it should be the reverse - you pick abilities based on what they offer you and then you choose a weapon setup that complements it (e.g. if you use more full attack abilities, then weight 2w more strongly) versus trying to optimize abilities purely based on full or primary attack and what they might offer in terms of raw damage.

several interrelated questions here: - it's been a while since i did the math, but iirc in general the dual-wielding full-attack bonus is a sufficient enough penalty that it brings the damage in line with a full-attack 2h weapon (which is the same as a primary attack w/ a 2h weapon), though there's still an advantage in that dual-wielding weapons have lower recovery time and you get two attempts to connect. so 2w is still arguably advantaged, just not as obviously as much as before. - compared to a primary attack, a 2w full-attack is basically a 1/3 damage bonus (w/ rounding) over a primary attack - you have a -35% damage penalty on each attack, which means if you just somehow duplicated your #1 weapon you get a 65% attack and a 65% attack = 140% net damage. so, a sufficiently high primary attack damage bonus would make up for not getting a full attack, but no, a mule kick's damage bonus alone would not do it. - keep in mind that the explicit damage bonus isn't everything. mule kick also gets an accuracy bonus. Accuracy also lets you do more damage over the long run, by increasing your crits, hits, and grazes compared to hits, grazes, and misses. i did some math a long time ago and in general (ignoring low/high extremes) each point of accuracy seemed to translate to ~2% net increase in damage (not the same as 2% damage bonus. for various reasons, a 3% damage bonus also translates into a ~2% net increase in damage, so in this way might and perception are very closely balanced in general). so adding on mule kick's +10 accuracy, its net damage bonus is closer to 36%, which is comparable to a vanilla 2w attack, but that math quickly gets complicated once you start adding in more bonuses and penalties. (complicated enough that when i say "back when i did the math" what i really mean is that i created a script that simulated the equations involved for thousands of scenarios to figure out what a general trend line was) - similarly, penetrating strike has a bigger damage bonus in practice than on paper, because you should really be using it when you need the PEN bonus. in that vein, +2 PEN can constitute as much as a whopping +200% damage bonus when it helps you go from -3 PEN to -1 PEN. it's getting so, so complicated. in the end i would argue though that just looking at damage is not the point to focus on for many abilities. Damage is just there to sweeten the cake a bit for spending a finite resource for knock down/mule kick. Ultimately the point of knock down/mule kick is a powerful interrupt (i almost don't even care that mule kick gets disorient, except as a way to get further +10 accuracy from helm of the white wind). Ultimately the point of penetrating strike is to help dps down a hard target in underpen situations, not just for the +25% paper damage + full attack. sap can be better if all you care about is interrupt and resource efficiency, but it's not supposed to fill the same role as strike the bell, so you need to be clear about what each ability is actually trying to accomplish. if all you care about is damage on a rogue, for example, you really have no reason to do anything other than spam crippling strike over and over, even compared to sap. but the rogue has plenty of other abilities worth taking for reasons other than efficient damage. (and it's worth highlightging that on potd, enemies end up with so much health in high-level fights that optimizing for damage on finite resource abilities is not a great idea imo anyway, so in that sense penetrating strike becomes kind of a trap choice)

you don't have berath's blessing on for loaded pockets? big if you can actually pick pocket even just one adra ban

aha! sorry i fudged together what you were saying about hazard spells vs beam spells. the no PL scaling is news to me! i suspected something was up for a certain class of spells (i never seemed to get more lightning bolts on returning storm with level ups), but it's good to have this confirmed more broadly

Cué? You're saying effects like chill fog and slicken don't get longer with intellect? That doesn't sound right.

ah interesting. by "hazard duration" here you mean abilities where the duration is listed outside the effects block at the bottom, if that makes sense? mostly as clarification, because in my mind hazard only refers to very specific things (wall of thorns, seals) which get treated very oddly by the game.

i'm guessing that this, along with meteor swarm, rain of holy fire, and magran's might, trigger a new projectile ever X seconds for its duration. based on what you write, it suggests that minoletta's launches one new missile per 1/7 a second. i mostly thought about these effects as having a fixed # of projectiles, but i guess these effects having a durational component means that empowering/PL scaling really boosts them compared to "normal" direct damage, and even compared to DoTs (which don't benefit from increased PEN).

this is an older thread, but i'd also just add on that OP had originally mentioned a bunch of damage-over-time effects. in actuality, while there is an occasional marux amanth bug that prevents it from leveling up, in this case damage-over-time effects do not count towards marux amanth. (this is probably also a bug). and yeah, a necklace of fireballs (or a scroll of fan of flames) might be able to level it up in one go.

Importantly, summoned duration buff you see in the combat tooltip will be impacted by things like salvation of time and tranquilizer shot, but the actual summon itself will expire independent of what happens with the buff. it might have been an interesting gameplay feature if you could extend or shorten summons via duration impacts, but that's not the game we have. (though enemies will waste things like arcane dampener on summons thinking they have a buff to suppress) i'm almost positive INT affects summon duration - you can see its impact on some of the really short chanter summons (very visibly with the chant that brings up a skeleton for 10s - the higher your int the more skeletons you can have up).

nah, IMO between Pallegina the herald and Fassina the (part)druid, you'll have tons of defensive power. at that point a priest would be valuable for misc buff/debuff, but between ywdin the (part)cipher and fassina the (part)wizard and whatever aura/exhortations you have on pallegina, you already sort of have that covered so the value-add won't be as vital. edit: as a strategic point, in case it's not something you've thought about, what makes fassina multiclassing (or any wizard multiclassing) work really well is to rely heavily on grimoires. i rarely pick up any wizard spells directly (pretty much only Deleterious Alacrity of Motion, so I always have it available), so that leaves tons of ability points to invest in the other class. it requires a bit more micromanagement to keep track of what spells are in which grimoire (though you get the hang of it), but the payoff is that you get tons of value by being able to heavily invest in your non-wizard half while your wizard half performs almost as well with just like a couple total skill points invested.

Fassina is fine with whatever you put her. As a sorcerer she could carry your party with heals and buffs, and when her spells run out summon citzal's pike and wreck. This time I'm running her as loremaster and it's working out pretty well (infuse with vital essence helps her chants and invocations last even longer), so long as you're aware of the anti-synergy between summon familiar and chanter summons. (i deal with it by summoning a familiar and only using a chanter summon once i no longer really need the bonus PL for spellcasting). I know lots of people are sour on wizard subclasses, but I actually value conjurer subclass pretty decently (maybe just under evocation) since they get many of the spells I care about, and their familiar is guaranteed to give you a passive +1 PL bonus (on top of other stats) that gives you a slight casting edge even with your non-focus school, at the cost of a bit of action economy (having to summon a familiar and recovery penalty). Unfortunately conjurer tier 8/9 spells aren't as great as other subclasses that have access to evocation (meteor swarm and missile salvo are incredible and losing them isn't really made up for by getting some bonus PL on blackbow/enchanted armor that don't benefit much from PL ) hence why I tend to multiclass her. You definitely could do with an additional tank of some sort. Rekke is a real beefy boi as a brute or a brawler. I like him in particular b.c. he has higher dex and higher int compared to pretty much every other front-lining companion. He doesn't get as much DLC reactivity though. Failing that, Konstanten is more of a DLC sidekick, but I typically am underwhelmed by his stats (I don't value high con very much), though if you're patient he can make for a great SC barbarian. I mentioned in another thread that once I got to tier 8/9, my konstanten build skyrocketed as a major damage dealer thanks to heart of fury, the dazing shout upgrade, and the retribution-from-crits passive (equip a 2h axe and enable the bleeding modal). Because he takes a lot of damage in this setup, having a high con actually pays off a bit. If you want to be a tank, then I suggest instead filling up that fourth companion slot with Vatnir. I suspect he gets underplayed by the playerbase since he comes so late, but he's very good. It's funny - just by the nature of what bonus spells he gets from his priest subclass really changes how he plays compared to most other priests (even compared to Magran, who is also predisposed to being a nuker). If you don't want to make fassina a lroemaster, Vatnir makes a compelling celebrant, though honestly Vatnir's tier 8/9 spells are great (on top of how already great tier 8/9 spells are for priests).

interesting - anyone test this with something that spreads effects in an aoe? you think you would at least be able to spread an injury debuff in an area with clear out or something? might make the utility a bit higher

here's an open question, because i don't know how to conjure up such a situation: there's a weapon that when enchanted, will let you cause injuries on enemies when using an empowered weapon ability. that got me thinking - enemies can also get injuries if they walk over a in-level trap (not one that you set). if enemies accumulate 4 injuries, do they also instantly die? if so is there way to make a situation where this is possible? even if enemies don't die, letting enemies accumulate multiple injuries would be another way to debuff. any ideas?

the closest thing i have to a theory is that if *both* parts of sun & moon critically hit (b.c. hunter's claw interrupts on crit) and the enemy doesn't have concentration, the interrupt somehow "breaks" the flow of the ability, and you end up getting an additional stack of hunter's claw, for a total of 3 when dual-wielded. maybe i'll do some more tests later, but not so far terribly motivated to dig deeper since so far this is at best a narrow synergy. picture 1: sun & moon both parts critting, getting 2x hunter's claw (instead of 1x) picture 2: hit from off-hand weapon, to get a third stack edit: i guess i didn't really need to try too hard (i'm overleveled for this area), so in the next few fights there were tons of partial sun & moon crits, and only when both parts of the flail crit did i end up doubling on the hunter's claw stacks. odd interaction, yet another situation where you get a subtle plus to using sun & moon

i kind of agree on this. i appreciate the general game design where being an extremely good person will frequently get you to turn down rewards, or get you minimal rewards, because if you're good you should be good because it's the right thing to do, not because you get an artifact of an item. (In fact, taking actions solely to maximize your reward is really more what an evil character does). but you don't get a good roleplay pay-off in-game for doing so, just some flavor text here and there, so it feels a little unsatisfying to roleplay a given character a certain way. Even the ending slides don't seem to care too much about it. whereas in F:NV, for example, the ending slides were tailored to your karma level, so you could end up with situations where you sided with what most people would consider is the most unambiguously evil faction (Caesar's Legion) and have a high morality and get very interesting slides as a result. i don't think your standing with the various factions factors at all outside of some shop discounts (and occasional ship attacks at extremely negative reputation). on topic, as a non-solo player, my one question of all solo players is: are you playing on PotD ? with upscaling? I'm always in awe that this is a "normal" way that some people like to play. do you personally, end up being a completionist, or do you skip a lot of content b.c. it's not worth it as a solo player?

hm, personally this is not really my experience, at least in terms of what they get, especially for multiclass set ups. perhaps the upper limit on power for non-druid martials is much higher, but to me druid spiritshift has a pretty decent expected value, especially considering it comes as part of a versatile spellcasting package. wildstrike frenzy being janky and the spiritshift duration being too short (shifter base duration should be the standard) seem like sufficient angles to attack spirit shift from, since IME spiritshift is mostly frustrating because for most druids it lasts such a short time, not so much that its autoattack is weak.

i'm curious - what's the impetus behind this? is this the only PL-based scaling lash in BPM? % lashes don't strike me as something that particularly needs to scale by power level, since they already scale by base weapon enchant level

oh dayumn i always assumed it mattered. so even in the cases where i had the cruel option locked, i still got it? i just never checked lol

honestly i have a real hard time generally remembering to use the "of the lost" abilities (e.g. chorus of the lost). they are once/rest and generally not any more powerful than a tier 1 or tier 2 spell. i feel like pathfinder: wrath of the righteous and bg2 nailed the "specialness" requirement of the mainchar's unique abilities better. at once/rest it should be much more impactful. the main one i ever use is the one you get that can heal your allies. it's a decent heal with a big radius and sometimes i'll just be in a pinch and it'll be the one extra heal i need to give me some breathing room in a fight. edit: the death's herald abilities can be super important, but in a niche metagamy sense. i only ever really value the brilliant inspiration (resource gen) or the energized inspiration (crit-based builds), though, intuitive just isn't as impactful in any build i've done. earlier on in my playing time, i would use the lower-level version of the intellect inspirations too for certain builds that really wanted more duration on buffs, but these days i don't even bother until i get brilliant. I do periodically use the might inspiration version once it gets to tenacious-tier, since +2 PEN can be extremely relevant especially for spellcasters. if i remember correctly, not only do you have to absorb the machine energy in poe1 history, but you also have to stay cruel in poe2. if you aren't cruel, the option is blocked off, and your soul is like "are you the same person as blah blah" and your only option is "no, i've changed."

maybe there's an advanced AI scripting mod that'll let you do this? In the past, I've just set it on a very short timer. (To be optimum, it has to be extremely short, because the AI commits to an action during recovery, so if the timer expires in the middle of a recovery, the AI will continue with an autoattack or something else)

speaking of sun & moon issues, most of the time I dual-wield sun & moon and use hunter's claw i get 2 stacks of hunter's claw, as might be reasonably expected from that. rarely though, i end up getting 3 stacks of hunter's claw, two from the sun & moon, and one from the off-hand weapon. i don't know why this happens and haven't yet been able to correlate it with anything. it'd be some nice subtle cheese if there was a consistent way to game it to get 3.

Here's an oddity I just discovered, just checked community patch and bpm to make sure it hasn't already been noticed. The giant beasts that are part of the Sakuya questline do not seem to have a creature type. Hunter's Claw does not get any stacks from attacking them! this blurry screencap is trying to draw attention to the fact that my character has successfully landed a hunter's claw attack (six of them, in fact) and no buff is showing up edit: doing this again to verify, these bears don't have any galawain's buff on them (i have galawain's challenge enabled), whereas some other giant beasts do. so they truly aren't being treated as beasts by the game.