Silent Winter

My point: Having gimped one stat, you have an advantage in another - build is viable to finish the game - adjustment in playstyle may be needed (basic example of ranged v. melee but lets also consider stuff like support v. damage-dealers) Your point: New player might not know in what way they're gimping themselves so build isn't viable? But build IS viable unless they take the extreme move of dumping all stats and not spending their points - even a casual gamer wouldn't fall into that 'trap', especially with the warning about left-points. In-game - they'll quickly learn how their strengths can be used. If this were being desgined as a casual game, I'd agree. But I don't see that as it is.

'is' - yes, 'must be' - no It may or may not be that Josh agrees with you and nothing will change, but I don't If a new player doesn't want to take the time to learn the game as they go, or want a 'win' button because they're a casual player, that's their problem. If Josh is really designing it that way, then yes, there's a big problem with the attribute system (may as well just get rid of it as Indira said). (Doesn't mean the game won't be fun, just that there'll only be one basic build of each class with minor effects (though Talents remain to be seen)). 'Quest-xp' was known for some time but assumed to be 'Objective-xp' by most posters in the related threads - and yes, it turned out the assumptions were wrong. So be it, I think it's an easy fix though. If it stays this way, I'll have to play the game to see how bad/not-bad it is.

Not sure what you mean by attributes need slightly more impact? How would you do that but still have one of your attributes with a 3 and still be viable? If someone mistakenly puts a 3 in an attribute, why should they be penalised? This has been the argument of a lot of posters on this forum for the last 2 years with defending Josh's design of no bad builds. And xp needs to be given out in smaller doses? How would you do that? So now you're not in favour of Obsidian's decision with only Quest Based XP? In response to the attributes - see my post in this thread: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/67723-josh-sawyer-explains-how-to-balance-an-rpg-extensive-editorial-at-kotaku/?p=1499826 ->'No bad builds' does not mean no bad effects from dumping one stat - it means dumping one stat allows pumping of another and then needing to play to that advantage. In response to xp system - I was never in favour of quest-only xp. Pre-beta I was arguing that it was meant to be objective-xp (e.g. rewarded for finding a hidden cave, solving a puzzle, dealing with a threat in one of multiple ways, etc). Since beta release and discovering it really is just quest-xp, I've been in the camp of wanting to tweak it to more objective-xp, or at least smaller steps on the way to finishing a quest if the former is out.

What parts need tweaking? From the feedback I've seen from the beta-testers - the effect of attributes needs slightly more impact, the experience could be given out in more smaller doses, the different classes' talents need implementing.

FYI Intellect covers the Barbarian's AOE for fury-wotsit attack and also the duration of Wild-Sprint etc. Currently attributes only have a small effect (according to beta testers - 2nd hand info from me ) - dump away. Hopefully this'll get looked at through the beta phase.

Creating threads=terrible design? But in all those threads it's the same people arguing and there are 2 sides (sometimes 3). There are those who say "aarrgghhh, the game is doomed I tell you, doooooommmmed!!1!", those who say "Nay, 'tis full of sunshine and buttercups" and those who are somewhere in the middle (thankfully the majority). Systems need tweaking, tha's all

^But other than dumping all your stats (for which there can be the warning of unallocated stat points meaning you might not survive the game), there should still be good builds in that - i.e. if I dump con, I'd better stay off the front lines but my accuracy with a bow will be awesome, or I can dump might and do little damage per hit but hit a large AOE / have long duration buffs/debuffs, or I can decide to be a tank that doesn't do much damage but soaks up blows like a punching bag. I thought that was the point of the 'all stats for all classes' design, rather than stats not mattering at all. A numbers tweak, as stated, along with the warning (and maybe a 'recommended' button for stat allocation and talent picks (a la NWN2)) would solve our problems as well as Josh's concerns about people playing a few hours then realising their build is gimped. Suddenly finding it doesn't play the way you thought it would but having its own strengths to make the most of, doesn't go against the design goal. (And being able to deliberately gimp your character is a nice side-effect for those who want to take that path)

I am reiterating on what Josh said. As for the degrees of 'good', the problem with that is that if you lack the bad, the best is just not that noticeable. fair enough - I guess it depends on whether we're getting 'win button' or 'you can win with any characters but it'll be really tough with some setups'

Wow, the game's not even out yet and there's already a savegame editor - I applaud your efficiency (I don't have the beta so can't help check it out but wanted to give you a virtual thumbs-up for your efforts on behalf of the community) Even in limited beta form, that's quite an achievement - gives hope for the general modding of finished game too Edit: re:Sarex - money too so you can add adventurer's hall companions without worrying over the cost.

For there to be a best way to play a game, there needs to be a bad way to play a game. You remember what Josh said about there being a bad way to play a game, yeah there won't be one. Well, 'Best' is not the opposite of 'Bad' - there can be degrees of 'good' resulting in a 'best' out of a good bunch. Optimum tactics for this particular party may not be the same as optimum tactics for that one, etc. So if I play a party of druids like they're a party of rogues, I may not do too well.

I've replayed BG1+2 a bunch of times since discovering them about 4 years ago. NWN2 OCx2, MOTBx2 (so far - not had it that long) I've replayed Final Fantasy 7,9+10 a couple of times each - mostly nostalgia there. What makes BG(1+2) so replayable for me has already been mentioned but I'll reiterate: Playing different characters - both RP and Mechanically. Character creation is nice but it's the character development I like - learning how to use that class's potential. Companions+their quests - having different groups along (not just different characters but different combinations) makes it a new adventure. The banters (and adding BG1 NPC mod makes this true for BG1 too) are great. Story - must be good enough not to get boring on a repeat, but it's not so based on a super-twist that it loses something on a replay (there are minor twists here and there). Mods - BG has some great mods (among some rubbish ones) including NPCs, minor quests, alternate paths for existing quests. What I'm looking for in PoE: Distinctive classes to make replays interesting. Great well-written companions that interact with each other as well as the PC. Good story that ties the whole questing thing together. ([The Dude]: It really tied the room together[/The Dude]) Modability as far as adding quests, dialogue and companions is concerned.

^enemies should follow you through a door or down the stairs, yes. AI should be clever enough to use spells/abilities well. It shouldn't be the case that you can't go through an open door or down the stairs just because there's combat. You should be able to send in a scout by themself, have them pull the enemy through the door and into an ambush.

emphasis mine - you don't have to - I believe the point of it is to make you choose between what to carry and what to leave behind, never to be seen again. Josh seemed to think that a lot of people were making trips back into dungeons to collect every last 1gp dagger. Personally, I'd decide between that dagger and the stack of arrows / gem / whatever and then play on. More role-play-ey, less pack-ratty. It adds to meaningful gameplay by making you choose. If you choose to make trips to that remote stash of yours ... well, that's your choice for your game.

You can't avoid/talk your way out of all the combat - it will be combat heavy - lots of mandatory combat - you just won't get xp for the combat so you'll still have to do the quests.

I think being able to run downstairs (and have enemy follow you) is a good thing. Being able to flee the area if you get far enough from the enemy is also good - get out of the cave, there are too many spiders, etc. It's not cheese - it's roleplaying. In most cases, I'll end up dying and reloading - but sometimes a tactical retreat is worthwhile.

"Group hug then mosey"

But they edited in Lephys, who voted after me? (not to mention he picked the same date as me, copycat ^^) Ah, that's because the OP is still in beta

Based on what? It's well known that 85.4% of statistics are made up on the spot ... ^This is supported by a 92% correlation with forum debate technique ... Edit: And 9 out of 10 cats prefer Druids

^Hmmm, best alter it subtly to avoid litigation - "You need to collect your entourage afore wandering hence"

^ Eye I captain

I'd like to see more options for spiritshift and animal companions too - reptiles and large birds, like the cassowarie, would be cool. Unfortunately, modelling and animating them takes time and money, then there's testing. Josh mentioned the possibility of a cassowarie for the expansion so it looks as if at least the idea of expanding these is open but will have to wait. Polar-bears are fine but tend to just be a retexturing of the regular bear (Mods could achieve this easily) I'd rather go for something less common but still cool (crocodillians, plant-based (druid form), cassowarie, Kimodo dragon, or other stuff like that)

because they can't edit it in? Your down in the latest update post

+1 I'd have to play that character. One shot then melee doesn't sound any more unbalanced than having to shift weapon styles after the opening shot anyway. Keep is as technically fighting dual-wield as Sensuki said, get one shot then melee straight away - awesome

I agree it could be improved and I like the mockup - would prefer the BG style myself too but can live with it if its improved a bit. ^^These are important to me - scale the inventory to full-screen please, and have some consistency (not necessarily 'Windows stlye' but certainly more uniform navigation) Srsly? Ok, that's dumb. I should be able to run from a fight or end 'combat mode' without killing everything. TOEE had that - there was an enemy activated on the other side of the map and I couldn't even move at normal speed (turn-based there so had to take turns to track down the enemy - but it'd still be annoying and pointless here).

Yeah, TOEE's radial menu was not fun to use.