jezz555

Bro, what? Initial meaning first. My first point, (meaning the point I wrote in my first post in this thread) was what I said, my main point in starting the thread altogether, was also what I said. Hopefully that clears things up for you And we are not bro's you just spent the past hour derailing my thread by calling me a racist in the most ignorant and condescending way possible, if there was an ignore function I could find on here, I would be using it right now.

...well it could be anything, obviously. I think it would be cool however if things reflected the real world, for reasons I have already stated. When I said I wanted to hear your thoughts I kind of meant, about sexism as a theme in the game not your thoughts about what's wrong with my thread. I'm not forcing Obsidian to do one thing or another, I don't know why you keep saying that. I would like it if PE was realistic, but YES, obviously they can make it anyway they want. You keep avoiding giving me your opinion by saying things like "The laws of real world physics and such need not apply" I know that they don't need to, but I like the laws of physics and I want them to apply. Do you not want them to or something? You haven't really told me one way or another. I don't really care that "this (is a) fictional world" that's a given, they could make a world that lacks gravity or oxygen as well I suppose, but that's not really what we're talking about here is it. What do you want this fictional world to contain?

Well they've talked about how god's love meddling in the affairs of mortals so I think we can expect godlike's to just be a single race of people who's ancestors banged a god or something. I doubt they will be based on Christian Angel/Devil archetype's as the gods seem to be more pagan to me, so I doubt there will be overtly good/evil gods. Elements are a possibility but unlikely I think, unless the gods are elemental as well.

I wouldn't ask you to comment on religion or Islam or w/e, Hormalakh's cartoon was more about cultural relativism anyway and regardless that was never meant to have anything to do with this thread...but I guess I'm just too opinionated on the matter to avoid addressing it when it comes up. If you want specifics, my initial point wasn't really about physical differences either. It was about whether or not in game, people should express the prejudices of the middle ages as well as the fashion, speech ect. Regardless of whether or not they actually are, should the prevailing mindset of human men in game be that women are not made for combat ect.? Because like I said I think it presents interesting opportunities to play characters like the aforementioned Brienne of Tarth from SoIF who is a big muscly woman who can beat any man in a sword-fight, but is still looked down on for being a woman and has to try and overcome that. I don't blame you for losing the point of the thread, as I did myself somewhere along the way. But I didn't want sexism injected into the game just because I hate women or I think it super "edgy/hardcore" as some have suggested. I just thought it brings in some cool opportunities for role-play, were if you don't fit peoples preconceived notions of "normalcy", you have to prove yourself, instead of just being accepted right away. I for one like characters like Tyrion Lannister, or Brienne and who are kind of misfits and wouldn't mind playing one, but I was wondering what others thought, that's all.

Somehow OP's profile picture, just fits this post so perfectly.

I did mention the stamina advantage men typically have. Although it's still important to note that melee combat is usually over pretty quickly (i.e. a matter of minutes) and in a disciplined fighting formation there's not going to be a ton of wasted movement (most people spent their time being defensive and mostly just took rare opportunities to actually make offensive moves). True enough. no, it's just you've done it like five times now. I would like to hear what you have to say. So how about instead of derailing the thread further, with talking about how it's going to get derailed and telling us things we already know like "the dev's are smart people" ect. you help get things back on track, by talking about the actual topic of the thread. I'm just trying to make conversation here, I don't really care if it changes anyone's mind or not.

Do not worry what has been said in this thread will not force or enforce any change in direction for the development of the game. This one just like the other three I linked earlier were locked for a good reason and this one will be so probably sooner or later too. The team creating the game are very skilled and talented, very well educated and intelligent. They will handle any such situations in the game the way best suited to the world and cultures within it and appropriately for the characters and storylines, not on whether or not forumite a or b believes their political or social views are the more correct one to have. I am only taking part in this thread for entertainment at this point in time because I know what is coming down the line with regards to this thread. I will however put my points across and discuss the topic in a reasonable and logical fashion until that occurs but I am under no illusion about the reality of the lack of impact this threads content will have on the design of the game because I know that Chris and the others are educated and intelligent, mature and wise enough to design such without the input of this constant bickering contained here. We get it, your too good for this thread. I think most of us are here for entertainment as well, did you join this forum with the intent that you would be discovering a cure for cancer or something? Because I don't think that's what computer game forums are for...

Well weight is one thing, but if you're swinging whatever around for a long period of time, it's going to feel a lot heavier. It's like walking a mile vs. walking a mile uphill.

I think it's all pretty much been done before, but I wouldn't mind a Moorish area, because like you said, it's pretty rare that you see one. For some reason I image it would be full of werewolves though.

played Skyrim for 80 hours... can't make it out of the crematorium in Planescape: Torment. *smashes face into desk* You, sir, perfectly define the spirit of everything that has gone wrong with the modern gamer. This is a little uncalled for. People have shorter attention spans these days, it's just the way things are, it's not something to mock someone over. PS:T was a great game for its time, but it is old now, I think we can all acknowledge that. There is no reason a gamer shouldn't want a more modern game, enough with the "I'm too tough for modern features" mindset, sometimes an upgrade is good. Not for it's time.PS:T is the best RPG ever hands down.(except maybe from BG2) Okay lol, sure. But PS:T with newer graphics and gameplay, wouldn't be so bad either right?

You're right my bad. Let's steer it back now please. Dude seriously. It was my fault for engaging you in the first place, but this is a computer-game forum.

Okay, Let's just agree to disagree at this point it's pretty clear I'm not going to convince you of anything, and this isn't the focus of the thread anyway...so back on track.

It's a free companion though...

Here you go I can do one better than that. Nothing said in here hasn't been said before. Feel free to read that thread which is in essense the same discussion as will get in this one. Like that one the way this one is heading will end up locked as that one was as they tend to follow a specific pattern. Now you can be dismissive of the reasonable advice in my last post I just gave as thats your choice. But you could also use the search function on site if want to know what people think about this aspect and topic for PE as it has been discussed in great detail before of which I was present. There are more than one thread which have discussed this topic. All of the ones I have seen get locked for a reason because they all head down the same path however if you wanted to know what people thought about this topic you could of read one of the many others on it that have come before. It's a different topic, I was saying there should be sexism present in the world. He was saying that there shouldn't be sexist archetypes in the story. Regardless if you don't like this type of thread or think it's going to get derailed or whatever, I'm not forcing you to be here, I started this thread because it was something I thought was interesting, and I thought would make for good conversation, I'm aware the premise is somewhat provocative but I like threads like this and that's what forums are for. If it get's locked so be it, but your doomsaying isn't really doing anybody any good.

If you don't like this kind of thread you don't have to post in it, there are plenty of other threads out there.

That may be because you're still doing it... Muslim is a race?

No? Oh come on, I love dogs!

Okay, try to read the following without calling me a misogynist because I think I can see where this is going. Your suggesting that women and men are more or less equal in every-way and that it's just a matter of chance that men have oppressed women for the past all-of-human-history, if I follow correctly. I don't really think there is anything that supports that though, we all know that women and men are different. Not that either gender is superior, just that they have different traits. This is pretty demonstrable. So we can conclude then, that it is as a result of that, that men have and have had the positions in society that they have and women have and have had the positions in society that they have. Among all animals, men and women fill different gender roles, because they are different. SO in order to switch things up and have a reversed form of sexism in society you would have to significantly change the traits of each gender, like Dream said "woman can access their souls better" or something like that( I think Wheel of Time does something like that). There would need to be something that allowed them to take the place that men now have, because it's not just a matter of chance. So It's not that I'm not in favour of it or that it would automatically be bad, but you would need to alter the genders, you couldn't just switch them, like that other guy said. It's not that it's unrealistic automatically, it's just that its unrealistic with human men and women, the way they are now. It would be fine with a different species, like how with lions women do the hunting and men stay at home, but not with normal humans. So yeah, that's my opinion.

played Skyrim for 80 hours... can't make it out of the crematorium in Planescape: Torment. *smashes face into desk* You, sir, perfectly define the spirit of everything that has gone wrong with the modern gamer. This is a little uncalled for. People have shorter attention spans these days, it's just the way things are, it's not something to mock someone over. PS:T was a great game for its time, but it is old now, I think we can all acknowledge that. There is no reason a gamer shouldn't want a more modern game, enough with the "I'm too tough for modern features" mindset, sometimes an upgrade is good.

Cool stuff, and you're right, I didn't know any of that. Regardless though, for the reasons you gave a woman might still want to dress up as a man in the middle ages, even if not to enter the army in the first place, still a pretty viable/interesting character concept imo. Jesus what did I ever do to piss you off so badly? You derailed my thread, I'm the one who should be pissed off, I said he was "probably right" because he probably is. I don't really know very much about Joan of Arc nor did I ever say I did(as I said), I was never "adamant", we covered her in history class back in HS, and I watched the Luc Besson movie, I'm not trying to defend my ignorance at all. When it comes to Joan of Arc (and firefly as well), I am very ignorant, happy? I was just offering up a role-play possibility for a woman in an rpg containing sexism as an example, the actual history isn't incredibly relevant to that, but I welcome any corrections. unlike some people here I like learning new things, instead of just shouting at people until they get tired and decide to ignore me. There are muslims in India...also why are you still on this? The people I was responding to dropped it, lets follow their example.

Yeah I definitely feel you bro. The crpgs are really slow going by today's standards. But PE will likely be modernized to the point were it'll be quicker to get into. That's why I advocate for more voice acting, I think it keeps you awake during some of the tedium and get's you engaged. I'm thinking/hoping PE will fix the issues you're talking about

AFAIK, Joan of Arc didn't impersonate or present as being a man. She was commissioned by the king of France, who did so knowing she was a young woman. The example you're looking for is someone like Brita Olofsdotte who impersonated being a man to get into the Swedish cavalry (and after dying in battle the king approved her family receiving her pay) or Frances Clalin joining the Missouri Artillery and Cavalry alongside her husband. The adoption of wearing men's clothing in Joan's case (and in the case of, say, Joanna of Flanders) was more practicality than anything else (for a couple of different reasons) as they weren't trying to hide who they were. Been awhile since I saw the Milla Jovovich movie but skimming over the Wikipedia article, she did dress up as a man at some point. Still you're probably right, I don't claim to be an expert on these sorts of things. It is exclusive to Muslim countries actually(the acid attacks specifically) I'm not saying other religions/people aren't also horrible, but he brought up Islam so that's what I'm talking about, and these are attacks are specifically inspired by Islam. The testimony of somebody raised in a muslim culture is not really reliable as they've never known anything else. I wouldn't ask somebody with Stockholm syndrome if they thought their kidnapper was a bad guy, either. They may say it's because their family "respects them" or whatever but try going outside without one and you get stoned, that's not respect thats oppression. There are groups of women from these countries fighting this kind of opression now so the fact that some of them claim indifference doesn't really say anything. I'm sure back in the 1800's you would find a few slaves who didn't mind slavery all that much( at least with their masters standing menacingly behind them), but I assure you the vast majority of them were pretty pissed about it. You seem preoccupied with Burkha's but what about stopping women from going to school? Is that respect? Anyway this is getting way off topic, TL;DR you are explosively wrong. And women in Saudi Arabia having acid thrown into their faces for going to school? Would you say that's sexist, or is it just my western perception that makes me think that's horrible? Learn to read. I did buddy, just disagreeing with your premise.

I generally try to be original, but I suppose all of my characters have a bit of me in them

None taken, pick on me all you wan't. I'm not really sure were the "massive assumptions" come in here, the acid attacks thing is not a mashup of two stories, it's many stories of literally women having acid thrown at them for trying to go to school, look it up. I wasn't implying that all Arabic people are sexist or anything like that (nor would I ever) and I don't really consider it a racial issue, unless you consider Islam a race. My main point in that post was that I object to Hormalakh's point that sexism is culturally relative, especially in the example he gave. He's not the only one to think that of course, but I think it's kind of hog-wash. Women are forced to wear burkha's nobody forces women in America to wear bikini's.

I think they're both good, personally. What I want to know is how River or Buffy are anymore incongruous with the real world than Daenerys since you're using GoT as an example of "good" fantasy and Firefly as an example of "bad." All three characters have their powers explained by a certain fantastic element (hell, River is the most "realistic" of the three). God I should have known better than to bring it up, okay guys I wanted to start a thread about themes of sexism in PE but I guess this thread is now about how awesome Joss Whedon is, so have at it.