Jojobobo

I think with Wizards having a huge repertoire of spells to use, even if you want to make the main focus on summoned-weapons people will still want to be using spells too. I know when I play PoE 1 with a melee centric Wizard, I will always be using offensive spells too. Besides, if a melee Wizard is just going for Strength, that makes the issue of a known dump stat worse not better. It would mean there's truly very few situations where many classes would take both Strength and Resolve, with the exception being I guess a melee tank.

Have you moused over the Deflection stat? That should show your shield benefit plus a separate benefit for it's enchantment, I think (e.g. Larder Door +16, fine +4), etc.

I always play on PotD solo in PoE 1, so I'm well aware of challenge. Introduction of a benefit doesn't mean that the benefit is broken if casting times are adjusted in accordance to that benefit. Further, the way Dexterity is currently implemented means that there's diminishing returns in buffing it higher - see this PoE 1 post. Casting speed would be implemented I would say by the same system, and as buffing it is asymptotic there's no way you're ever going to become a complete spell-spamming machine by this system. I think this is all entirely subjective, as to me the new system is more simplified - not less. While it's true that weapon-summoning casters are going to need both Strength and Resolve, this is going to be a minority of character builds. This is because (a) it's already a little bit of a niche concept to begin with and (b) it's now discouraged by the mechanics as inherently having to split between Strength and Resolve makes you more divided and likely less damaging strong than a pure caster or a pure melee/ranged weapon guy - unless they make summoned weapons crazy strong, but that's also not a good approach to game balance. Therefore you now have a system where nuanced builds slip between the cracks for a lot of people, as they lack power, and 95% of builds will be dumping one stat or the other. This has now removed a complication from character building, and by providing a dump stat weirdly it allows for you to have a greater effective pool of character points to easily play with in character creation - which has far reaching implications for overall game balance when you think of it. I think objectively they've made a lot more problems for themselves than they realise with making the change, though I guess that's maybe why they're beta testing it so they can get a feel for how these changes play out.

Yeah, I guess that's the trouble when I post the same idea in several threads! I agree with this more or less - if Resolve was offering a casting speed increase then casters should still be viable at the base level of 10 Resolve (but maybe feeling slightly below optimal to make an attribute benefit make sense). In this case, you need to do a lot of the adjustment legwork first really, and then think more about the ramifications of an adjustment stat. At the very least, if you make spell-casting faster, and then added in an adjustment stat, and then it was too powerful - you now have a much better framework for the kind of adjustments that make sense in order to introduce a bit of nerf back into the casting time.

It's designed as a solo build, so naturally you can't take companions to sacrifice them. However if you were to use it in party play, really whoever is fine. The attributes are pitched so that the build works nicely already with a boost, so I'd probably take one of the slightly defensively orientated ones (Aloth, Eder, Maneha, Durance, etc.).

I agree there definitely needs to be adjustment to casting times whether or not benefit was added, and I'm sure there will be at some point. In terms of it being poor design to tack on a benefit to a stat, I think that's a fairly subjective point. You could say for the sake of argument that Concentration was tacked onto to Resolve in PoE 1 to deal with the interrupts for example. Certainly when accuracy was added to Perception, it isn't became a stat you couldn't realistically dump on 90% of builds in PoE 1. I would also say that arguably now Resolve is a must pump for casters due to the damage benefit, so changing the manner in which it's a must pump doesn't really change things too much in my opinion. I guess for implementing all of this, how balance would be achieved is: 1) Adjust casting times first so they feel innately balanced. 2) Introduce the Resolve casting benefit, and if it's too powerful, iterate until it feels better (with the original casting times already giving a guideline). 3) Possibly consider making it so you could dump a little out of Resolve and make up for it to an extent in Dex to better enable weapon-summoning characters to do their thing. As you say though, this is a very complicated and resource intensive balancing act. However, I would still massively prefer it to the very lazy current implementation of Resolve, where they just moved benefits from Might into it and said "job done". Regardless of how anyone subjectively feels about Strength vs. Might, it doesn't objectively appear to be nuanced mechanics building to just shift benefits from Might into Resolve.

Personally I think if you're going to have an import system from PoE 1 to PoE 2, it's better for several non-subjective reasons to keep attributes more or less true to their original incarnations rather than change their function. I think regardless of all the subjective abstract ideas about whether Strength or Might is better, the idea of any sort of import (even if you don't import their attributes) makes such a change jarring. From my point of view, the main issue was that in PoE 1 one of Resolve's primary advantages was Concentration. In Deadfire, the interrupt system was more or less done away with, and so Resolve lost an advantage. What the interrupt system was replaced with was longer casting times, as with nothing to interrupt a caster any more it made sense to have casting times longer (though admittedly this solved other problems too, like Vancian casting). So why not have Resolve receive a new advantage to reflect its lost advantage and the changes to core game mechanics? As I've said elsewhere, I think Resolve should now increase casting speed for spells and abilities (at the 5% level most likely, giving how long casting times are) which reflects the changes to the game mechanics, and Strength should go back to Might. This would give it some overlap with Dexterity, but Dexterity itself already overlaps with effects that reduce Recovery, so I don't really think that is a problem - and it certainly seems more elegant than lifting mechanics from Might and dumping them into Resolve. Dexterity could also be buffed slightly, something along the lines of, "5% attack speed bonus to physical attacks, 3% speed bonus to all other actions". Way too often in PoE 1, people would just reduce Recovery to optimise DPS, this would now give Dexterity a much larger role in melee DPS while keeping it not useless to casters (as for optimal casting DPS, you would need both Dex and Resolve). If you moderate ability casting times well enough, Resolve could also be not entirely a dump stat for melee classes too (or at least only for the most pure of melee fighters who use abilities hardly at all). Sawyerism would be restored, stats reflect their PoE 1 counterparts, something is done about the tedious casting times, there would be no obvious dump stats and everyone would get a nice cake of their choosing on their birthdays.

I think it depends on how you view casting time in general. Personally I see it as a new mechanic, as casting time wasn't at all the same in PoE 1. If they've removed a mechanic that effected casting time originally (interrupts being ubiquitous), and removed an advantage that went along with that mechanic from an attribute (Concentration), to me it makes logical sense that Resolve should now benefit from a new advantage that reflects the mechanistic changes that have been made in PoE 2 (longer casting time).

I think an argument could be made that someone who was wilful would have a better command of magic and that could translate to faster casting - their desire to enact a spell is stronger and so they're better able to make it happen. You could also have it effect ability casting to for all the classes, and modify existing ability times accordingly (likely extend them a little, but not to the same degree we currently see for spells). To me it seems like lengthy casting time - as a borderline new mechanic - needs a specific form of address. While giving Resolve as casting speed increase would give it a bit of functional overlap with Dexterity, Dexterity itself already has functional overlap with recovery reducing effects, so I don't think adding a different sort of functional overlap is such an egregious thing to do (and Dexterity would be buffed for physical attack speed too to make sure it isn't so infringed upon conceptually). Personally (though again this is subjective), I think a little overlap with Dexterity is a more elegant approach than shovelling a load of benefits originally belonging to Might into Resolve. I also do think the angle of giving casters a lot of attribute dependencies does make their power more or less self-regulating, as by pumping any one particular attribute very high you naturally can't buff a different beneficial attribute to the same degree - subtly enforcing a balanced approach to attribute distribution (rather than, "I'm a caster, I'm going to dump Strength," like we currently have).

I get what you're saying, and agree with it. But I think "spiritual strength" is a cleaner concept than bringing the real life physics of shooting lightning bolts out of your hand. It's hard to say really. I'm sure that could work, but it seems like the casting speed itself is bumming people out the most. Maybe both could be added to Resolve to make it more relevant. As I mentioned, after saying casters must be physically strong to hit hard with their weapons: "However physical strength ≠ muscle bound. I've mentioned elsewhere that if you take any of White Wolf's Vampire games (PnP, cRPGs, either oWoD or nWoD) vampires cease to physically change when they are made a vampire, but they can get physically stronger due to becoming more potent as a vampire. The strength itself, while it can be tied to being muscly, doesn't necessarily need to be tied to that at all. Conceptually, therefore, this is precedented in other games and people still 'get it'." So, to me, all the physical intimidations options in dialogue make sense - though I would have preferred a couple of options that reflected a broader concept of Might making others more powerful.

I've posted this in the general discussion for PoE 2, but I think it will get a bit more coverage here both for the fanbase and (hopefully) for the devs too. I think Resolve should modify casting speed, and Strength should just become Might once again. In terms of its implication on Dexterity, I think it should still keep a 3% overall action speed increase, but also offer a 4% or 5% attack speed increase (whereas Resolve would just get the spell-casting increase, probably at a 5% or 6% level given how onerous the spell casting times currently are). By this I mean, "5% physical attack speed increase, 3% speed increase to all other actions" (not an 8% increase if I wasn't clear). How I see this translating mechanically is: 1) It tackles the long casting times, which are an un-fun mechanic. I think longer casting times are a necessary evil given the move away from Vancian casting and an interrupt system, however I think it's wrong to not empower a player to be able to do anything about it - it feels like a punishment. This should also balance casters with melee classes if pitched at the right level. 2) It gives casters a large number of attribute dependancies (Resolve, Might, Intellect). To me this is fine, huge and damaging AoEs are powerful, having to put a little effort in forge an appropriate caster attribute spread seems like an appropriate counter measure - and self-moderates spell power (e.g. if you pump Might maximally, your casting time and AoE size suffer, etc.). 3) It makes Dexterity more worthwhile. In PoE 1, no one really cared about Dexterity to a large extent, they would typically focus on recovery reduction instead. Giving it an additional bump to melee attack speed makes it more of a consideration for melee DPS builds, and if you want a ninja-fast spell caster you would need both Resolve and Dexterity to optimise your speed. It makes Dexterity more relevant compared to what it was in PoE 1. It also goes without saying that this keeps all the attributes true to their PoE 1 roots, without any bastardisation (whether this is a good or bad thing is totally subjective). Resolve now would function more or less like it did in PoE 1 by letting you get your spells out faster (as interrupts increased casting time in PoE 1, and... well... increased casting time is increasing casting time in PoE 2). I think if a new punitive mechanic is introduced into a game (which the very lengthy casting time more or less is), the devs should definitely be considering offering a new advantage to counteract that mechanic. Good idea? Bad idea? I don't have access to the beta, but it seems like a large number of people think the increased casting time is currently a problem - and this somewhat addresses that.

I think the crux of all the Might vs Strength debate is whether that truly is the devs' vision, or if they're just caving to more established genre tropes for broader? As Might already was a distinct vision and implemented in that way to avoid dump stats, it feels like to go back on that they're compromising themselves. I guess none of this may be true, maybe the devs have wanted Might to be Strength for years, but it seems like to many that any kind of walk back from a more unique concept to a less unique concept isn't the devs making a bold decision at all - but actually weakening their original ideology towards game design. I've seen a lot of, "Might wasn't implemented well in PoE 1 dialogue checks," in both this thread and elsewhere, and I thought I'd touch on that too. In my mind: 1) Characters with high Might are physically strong. Their weapons they wield do more damage to enemies than characters with low Might. Therefore the dialogue checks about doing things that require physical strength. 2) However physical strength ≠ muscle bound. I've mentioned elsewhere that if you take any of White Wolf's Vampire games (PnP, cRPGs, either oWoD or nWoD) vampires cease to physically change when they are made a vampire, but they can get physically stronger due to becoming more potent as a vampire. The strength itself, while it can be tied to being muscly, doesn't necessarily need to be tied to that at all. Conceptually, therefore, this is precedented in other games and people still "get it". While I would have liked to see a few more approaches to Might indicating a sort of spiritual strength, the physical uses of Might always made sense to me personally. I am also of the opinion if you can import the Watcher from PoE 1 (even if you don't import their attribute spread), then it makes sense to keep the mechanics more or less true to their originals. Beyond that, if guns are also benefit from Strength, that to me undermines the idea of Strength just being physical strength in the first place - there is clearly a sort of mystical component still even though they have re-branded it as Strength. I really think the devs should be looking into ways to modify Resolve that don't take aspects from existing attributes, and they should beta test both approaches and see which one translates better. With their move from Vancian magic and an interrupt system, longer casting times certainly do make sense but as many people point out at this stage they are too punitive. As "long casting times" is kind of a new mechanic to the PoE franchise, having Resolve tackle this mechanic by allowing it to reduce casting times makes perfect sense to me. It maintains the role of Resolve almost perfectly (Concentration in PoE 1 allowed spell-casters to better cast spells, reduced casting time would allow spell-casters in PoE 2 to better cast spells). While this gives spell-casters a lot more dependencies than other classes (Might and Resolve and Intellect), I think this is perfectly fine - massive crowd-controlling AoEs are a hugely beneficial property for a class to have, having a few more dependencies keeps them balanced with the single target damage classes IMO. I guess the only issue with this approach would be what to do with Dexterity, as it already still reduces casting time. I would probably still allow Dexterity to increase the speed of all actions, but maybe increase the speed of physical attacks at a slightly greater rate (so 3% increased speed for all actions, 4% or 5% increased speed for physical attacks). Resolve conversely would be 4% or 5% or 6% speed increase for spell casting only. Therefore, if you wanted an extremely fast spell-casting ninja, you'd need both Dexterity and Resolve - but for most builds just Resolve is necessary. This mirrors the existing PoE 1 system of weapon DPS, whereby if you want the highest possible DPS you both reduce recovery and increase Dex, but for most builds they just reduce recovery. To me this sounds mechanically fluent, it keeps attributes true to their PoE 1 roots, and addresses the new mechanic that no one likes in PoE 2 - onerous casting times. I think long casting times are fine in light of moving away from both Vancian casting and an interrupt system, however to not allow the player base to reduce these casting times in any way feels like an un-fun punishment. If they're introducing a new limitation, this should be counterbalanced by a new benefit.

I guess with so many FO1 and 2 staff working on PoE 1 I've always gone with the drugs-are-good mentality, seeing as they were very prominent in those games. Plus with playing solo for most of my playthroughs, I find they feature more prominently in solo play that in you would have in party play. Regardless of tactics I think the Goldrot Chew + Svef = a version of Frenzy is easily better than taking Outlander's Frenzy. It's definitely a somewhat worthy alternative, and nice that it's essentially a class-less potent combo.

What's your opinion on them? I've never really heard much discussion about their use, and it seems mostly people don't bother with them at all. I mentioned a long time ago Whiteleaf is great for Dragon fights by making you fear immune, and it perfectly offsets Sickened from Mind Grubs - allowing you to further boost your defences. However outside of that known use, I was trying to think about other combinations. For one thing, Gravestep can allow Rogues to reach 100% hit to crit conversion against enemies with low health using a one handed weapon: Gravestep - 25% Hit to Crit Dirty + Vicious Fighting - 20% Hit to Crit Durgan Refined - 20% Hit to Crit One-Handed Style - 15% Hit to Crit Bloody Slaughter - 20% Hit to Crit against low Endurance enemies I guess probably going for a two hander and hitting 85% Hit to Crit is easily better, but I still thought this was pretty interesting. The huge +12 Accuracy bonus from going one handed really allows you to go for much more balanced builds, which I'd say is the largest advantage of going one handed - as purely melee characters can easily dump Per and not feel any pinch about it. Another thing I was think of is that Svef + Goldrot Chew is more or less a slightly weaker but semi-permanent Frenzy. +3 Might, x1.15 Attack Speed, +1 Move Speed but -2 Per and -4 Resolve for 10 whole minutes, versus +4 Might, +4 Con, x1.33 Attack Speed but -10 Deflection for only 12 seconds. While it's clear the Frenzy benefits are better it lasts no time at all, while drugs are extremely easy to come by, and when you pair them with Gauntlets of Swift Action, Two Weapon Style and Durgan-Refined weapons you can achieve zero recovery with Durgan-Reinforced Scale or less. If both weapons are speed enchanted - you can now have zero recovery in full plate (without any need for Durgan-Reinforcement... yeah). While potions of DAoM are unequivocally better, there's also relatively short lived (30 seconds) and way more intensive to mine than buying some readily available drugs. Those are the two combos I've been thinking about anyway, has anyone else been using any unusual combinations?

You're probably correct in that they're suppressing one another, I'm probably mistaken. I'll check again at some point, too lazy right now.

A quick test, I consoled these in but I don't see why that would break anything? Using the belt, not the gloves. I don't thin it's so broken given Firebrand's accuracy is so sucky in the first place, but for other Wizard weapons I'm it might be quite busted. Even so - it's still single target damage - Rogue will best it all anyway.

They should employ you Boeroer. You and MaxQuest should slap them about the face until they give you a job on PoE 2. Do it!

And here you've fell apart. And let me say I'm blasted drunk right now, but I'll still try and go for more intellectualised posting than implying people should be called a weasel - because that's quite simply how I roll. I'm not going to lambast you for cosying up to poor concepts while not being able to properly articulate yourself in the heat of the moment - because I'm just not that guy. However you say things like, "Start by deciding with concepts," like they already did in PoE 1 which is why the Beta testers in PoE 2 aren't necessarily converts - and then you're more than happy to approve the PoE 2 change from Might to Strength, even though they're running entirely contrary to the PoE 1 design spec. Can we please, please, get back to my Resolve casting speed argument - which was the idea in the first place (look at the topic, which I've told you for the second time)? Jesus, can we please get onto my Resolve changes? Ninjamestari is not a "weasel" for not having done so, just not someone who can separate thoughts from feelings when trying to discuss the issues (again sorry for calling Might "popular", jeez) at this moment in time - I think we're all hoping for a mechanically fluent game which is what I was trying to address. Somehow apparently more min-maxing was worse on lower difficulties than on higher difficulties - which makes the least sense I've ever heard and paints a fundamentally poor understanding of the arguments concerning PoE 1 (despite of merit worthy arguments being available on either side of the fence). Can we re-railroad this maybe? I mean one day? Even if it is Strength in the end, I was just trying to show another path - sorry guys.

You say you appreciate intellectual integrity, but tried to devolve this all into cheap shots at an early opportunity. I would say that demonstrates a lack of intellectualism, as you have been unable to talk about a subject without making things personal - rather than discussing the logical merits of the topic itself. If I was trying to raise your point I would have called it a "logical fallacy", rather than calling someone a weasel. A person can relay an "honest" opinion in an intellectual way without descending into rudeness and you will get a better discussion from people if you did so, you failed to do that here. However, I also don't see anything particularly honest about you focussing on a single word as a total strawman to let you ignore nearly all the other points presented, clearly Strength is a hot button issue for you and you're letting it cloud your judgement. As I said, you got me, I could have chosen a more fitting word to articulate what I was going for in that singular position in that particular sentence. However throughout the entire post I think the larger idea of what I was trying to say was clear, so calling someone a weasel rather than someone typing in a rush because it's the holidays and I had other things to be getting on with is a conceit on your behalf. Much more that the Might vs Strength, I wanted to talk about giving Resolve a buff to spell casting speed as an alternative - which I really intended to be much more the main thrust of the thread. If you make that change to Resolve, there's no need for Resolve to have any of Might's original benefits I would say. I think Obsidian should have looked more at what other benefits could have been given to Resolve to reflect their new systems, rather than reshuffle benefits from one attribute to another. My skin is thick, I just think it's nonsense for someone to claim they're championing intellectualism and honesty when they personally have exhibited neither. If you were talking to anyone else like this on the forum who wasn't me, I'd be calling you out just the same. While min-maxing happened in PoE 1 even on the hardest difficulties, it would likely be one or two members of your party who were pure tanks or heavy hitters. Even if you think that's an exaggeration, I would say objectively two or so party members would at least be not be min-maxed, and if you put limitations on yourself to play with a smaller party or solo the min-maxing becomes less and less. The difference is in PoE 2, there's readily a situation where everyone in your party will be min-maxed arbitrarily because that's what the attributes lend themselves to - a maximisation of benefit lacking any sort of interesting cost. In PoE 2, it's become innate to a much greater degree. While you see Strength vs Might as a separate issue, Sawyer originally pitched the PoE 1 stats to avoid min-maxing and the whole choice made made about the conceptual (not only physical strength) and mechanical effects of Might were informed by that desire. Might would have not have been the concept it was without the mechanical underpinning it was based on. And as I said - the main point here is changing Resolve to casting speed reduction, which means Might doesn't need to be touched to shore up the new short-fall in Resolve. As you keep going back to Might over and over again, when really the main point is a reversion to Might is a byproduct of a better implementation of Resolve, I'm really failing to see the merits of discussing Might in a bubble any more. This wasn't an "in a bubble" discussion from the off (look at the topic title), and proposed several changes that complemented each other.

This here, ladies and gentlemen, is called weaseling. Don't do it And here's what we call lowering the tone of a conversation. It's surprising from a person calling others ladies and gentlemen. The point was quite clear, it's a popular concept with a lot of the fanbase. Strength would likely be a more popular concept with a broader demographic. Raking over semantics is pointless, everyone else seems to get the idea apart from you who seems more keen on throwing insults around. I hope next time you pick one slightly poorly chosen word in something you've taken a bit of time writing someone tries to railroad your entire discussion about the subtext of that one word rather than the merits of a particular concept. I get that you like the idea of Strength, I've seen you post in other threads, but there's no need to stop being civil. I don't think anyone around here is looking to be called a weasel by implication in threads, and I doubt other people enjoy seeing it either for the sake of posturing and bravado. You were the one who first raised min-maxing in the thread. If you didn't think it was pertinent then why did you personally raise it as a point? I know you were referring to Resolve, but the two concepts to many have become linked as many of the benefits of Might were moved into Resolve - they're inextricably linked. I don't really have a problem with it either. However, I always thought part of Sawyer's whole thing was to discourage the idea of particular dump stats - increasing the risk and reward aspect of min-maxing if you take that route. This makes it all an interesting logic-based challenge when it comes to building, as it's not trivial to dump certain stats on any build in particular. My main issue is that with the current Strength and Resolve, there's no difficult decision to be made when it comes to dumping those stats for a melee focussed or caster focussed builds in particular. I'm all for min-maxing, but it shouldn't be such an easy choice to make that anyone who remotely cares about strategic attribute choice will dump those stats automatically.

While I'm 100% behind this statement, I find it somewhat of a struggle to apply it to attribute mechanic design. Yeah, I kinda edited my post to elaborate on that a little more, but the main point of that was A) there seem to be two competing designs working at cross-purposes in the stats right now and B) Jojobobo kinda suggested reverting back to Might because that 'seems to be popular'. I wasn't talking of reverting back for popularity's sake, more so that it offered a unique vision that people liked in the first Pillars that was quite different to what you saw in other IE games and that also worked well in practice (hence, which is why it was popular in the first place). The fondness for that original vision of Might is due to the devs' previously solid design choices, and not just thinking it was neat for the sake of being arbitrary. If anything, switching to Strength would be the "popular" choice - as it's a slightly easier concept to wrap your head around and so would go down easier with the masses rather than Might which seems to incorporate a few separate ideas (physical strength and mystical potency). I was also massively addressing the Resolve changes too which you haven't referred to, rather than just looking at Might vs Strength, which seem to lend themselves more and not less to min-maxing than the PoE 1 system (Resolve is a straight dump for most physical builds, Strength is a straight dump for most caster builds, and while there will be multi-classing relying on both melee and casting broadly speaking this picture is accurate). You say you're not a fan of "ridiculous min-max" builds, but I would say the PoE 2 system caters much more towards that than PoE 1 - because the Resolve and Strength changes create non-complex black and white situations when approaching your character build, likely leading to a polarising effect in attribute choice based on class. This is all inside of the frame of reference that PoE 1 was designed with a view of making no dump stats to prevent min-maxing to a large extent, which seems to be a vision the devs are pulling away from in the sequel.

I don't know, I want to give this one more of a thorough playtest before posting first. It mentions somewhere that builds should be playtested before submission, so really I need to do that on both this one and the Rogue one I posted up before they should be added to the list. Echoing Misery definitely seems like a good alternative, I'll edit it in as a potential option. I think the main reason I listed Viettro's Formal Footware as the no. 1 option is that I like the nice round 30 Dexterity gets buffed to when it's equipped (though it's definitely redundant, as the Deadfire belt is already buffing it by +3). For the saber, I think Gyrd Háewanes Sténes would be used too much to make it worthwhile for it to be on the build. I'm reasonably sure that the Dominate chance of Gyrd effects everyone in the Blast radius, so when you think of it like that the chance becomes quite reasonable over a minute or so. Also, the Raw lash with the two damage types on Gyrd is also very nice to put out consistent damage - whereas the Saber is easier to wall. If I had Arms Bearer maybe it could be stuck in the extra slot with Scath Gwannek - I suppose I still might take Arms Bearer over Weapon and Shield Style anyway as I don't think the Reflex really requires the shield buff (it's +50 Reflex from 20 Dex and 25 Per, plus +20 from Llengraths - not too bad) and you only lose a smidge of Deflection anyway. Again Godansthunyr is a pretty good option, especially as it buffs Might so it gives a little boost to all the Sunbeams and Torrent of Flame - but as it's single target and Firebrand should do a good job against single target anyway it probably wouldn't pull it's weight as much as more spellbindings if I were to take Arms Bearer. One thing I was considering was Abydon's Hammer with Arms Bearer. It has a per encounter AoE Stun which benefits from Citzals, and the +4 Might makes Sunbeams and Torrent of Flame extremely potent. Before looking to re-incorporate the Charming angle, I was originally thinking of going pure Might and spell-binds - if you go Living Lands, Lyrinia's Boon and Galawain's Boon with Maegfolc Skull and Abydon's Hammer you can have 44 Might under Citzal's. This means you now do +102% damage with Torrent of Flame, your Sunbeams and Envenomed Strike, which is pretty ferocious IMO - but I think the Charm angle is slightly more versatile so I think the above version is slightly better. EDIT: I up and changed my mind on the build again, this time dropping Interrupting Blows which I wasn't keen on anyway (I think the build really needs to attack faster to make that work) and Weapon and Shield Style, and instead taking Arms Bearer and Secret of Rime - opting for the White Spire in the extra slot. I also think Animancer's Boots and Scath Gwannek are a must, and Rotfinger Gloves can be taken over Gauntlets of Accuracy to add in Touch of Rot. Over the original spread, I would now recommend the slightly modified spread of (with Living Lands background): Might 21 Con 14 Dex 9 Per 17 Int 18 Res 3 Going for Galawain's Boon, Song of the Heavens, Gift from the Machine, Training Grounds bonus, Lyrinia's Boon, the Cannoneer Belt, Ring of Changing Heart, +2 Per on the armor and Citzal's Martial power, this all becomes: Might 39 Con 24 Dex 20 Per 20 Int 20 Res 6 or 9 (9 with Gyrd implement) I think the 4 point shift into Might will be felt, and while lowering the Per and not opting for Gauntlets of Accuracy means a 10 point drop in overall spell accuracy - I think with the debuffs this build has honestly that's okay. The per rests with the new suggested gear are: 3 Charm 2 Dominate 3 Touch of Rot 3 Spreading Plague (Hobbles, another Reflex debuff) 6 Fireballs 3 Winter Winds 3 Blizzards 3 Jolting Touches 1 Torrent of Flames You also get: Gref's Authority (1 per encounter from Gyrd) - a raw damage/Stun single target attack 10% Dominate Chance on hit or crit (Gyrd implement) That's a hell of a lot to churn out from +20 Accuracy +8 Might, so it really should make for much better stopping power.

Well ask, and you shall receive! Alluded to earlier, I recently found out that Citzal’s Martial Power works with all Spellbinds - not just Charm effects. This offers three obvious advantages: (1) the +20 accuracy boost on the spell rolls, (2) the +8 Might adding to damage and (3) the +8 Dexterity increases speed of spell-casting. With this concept in mind, I wanted to use Citzal’s Martial Power was to combine both Charming and offensive spell bindings to make a very versatile all-rounder, unlike the fairly shrimpy purely Charming build I mentioned above. Citzal’s Martial Power also works with spell-holdings too that proc on hit and crit, so Gyrd Háewanes Sténes can be used for innate Dominate potential after you’ve blown throw all your big AoE spells (with its Dominate effect having +10 accuracy unlike that of Ring of Changing Heart – very nice). Island Aumaua is a natural race for the build, giving you an additional slot to house a Spellbound weapon for free, and I added a slight Interrupt focus too. With that, here’s what I came up with: This leads to the following juicy effects: Spell accuracy... 20 (Wizard base) + 45 (level 16) + 15 (25 Perception) + 5 (Gauntlets of Accuracy) + 16 (+1 per level for spells/abilities) + 4 (Gallant’s Focus) + 20 (Citzal’s Martial Power) = 125 Defence Debuffs (factoring in attribute debuffs): Blind (Sunbeam) = -28 Reflex Weakened (Ryngrim’s Enervating Terror) = -24 Fortitude Weakned + Terrified (Ryngrim’s Enervating Terror) = -28 Will Modifiers: 35 Might, 22 Intellect, Scion of Flame Sunbeam (+10 acc) vs. Reflex, 135 accuracy total, 6 per rest 42-73 Fire damage, 24 second Blind Fireball (+15 acc) vs. Reflex, 140 accuracy total, 6 per rest 53-73 Fire damage Torrent of Flame (+15 acc) vs. Reflex, 140 accuracy total, 1 per rest 84-126 Fire damage Envenomed Strike (+5 accuracy – I think) vs. Fortitude, 130 accuracy total, 3 per rest 121.9 Raw damage over 14.4 seconds Ring of Changing Heart Dominate (base acc) vs. Will, 125 accuracy total, 2 per rest 16 seconds Munacra Arret Whispers of Treason (+10 acc) vs. Will, 135 total, 3 per rest 16 seconds Gyrd Háewanes Sténes Dominate (+10 acc) vs. Will, 135 total, 10% on hit or crit 16 seconds Given that any of these can hit a severely de-buffed stat and be cast rapidly, there should be plenty of crits all over the place. Here are some nice combat manoeuvres, which you should probably use more or less in the order written: And here’s a quick Q&A to cover any anticipated questions... And there you have it. This build, as I think it'll be ridiculously good fun, has become my top priority and I'm testing it as we speak. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears. While I think the Talent set is solid for solo-play, I'm not too sure if the order is quite right for my tastes. Arguably Interrupting Blows is maybe the most useless Talent so could be taken later - but if you're taking it at level 16 then what's the point in taking it at all? I guess that's why I've pitched it at level 12 - but I'm not wholly convinced. Sorry for typos and general incoherency, it's late so I'll try and catch that in the morning. Hope you enjoy!

For some encounters yes, for others it's hard to say. No one's ever tried, so that's kind of the point in looking into it - as while in may look shaky on paper it might be fine in practice. I don't think there's much of an issue keeping the Deflection up against Thaos. Anything else apart from Deflection should be more or less always maintainable I would say in other fights, and Deflection in some fights isn't as important as the other defences (probably against Llengrath it's less important than Reflex and Fortitude for example). In any case, I would say regardless of whether or not the defences can be maintained at optimum levels while your Citzal's Martial Power lasts, I think the build is still more than tanky enough to take on a lot of encounters. Elements of tanky gear can easily be swapped out for CC gear if pure tanking isn't working well enough (as mentioned in the provisional builds thread, all the Dominate gear and Charm gear works with Citzal's Martial Power and benefits from it's accuracy bonus, and I'm pretty sure that one of Llengrath's dragons is susceptible to Dominate and the other to Charm). As mentioned I'm putting a pin in this build for now, as I would want to restart it for 3.08 given that the build was benefitting from the pirate Deflection and Fortitude bonuses that the devs have now deemed over-powered - and back-to-back solo tank playthroughs can be a bit much to bear! I'm going to focus on a Citzal Charmer similar to what I stated in the provisional builds thread, but with a lot of other stuff thrown in. Part of the idea behind these threads was the mental exercise of working out what can be possible anyway, and if it works even only 50% of the time in practice I would be happy - as that still makes it all a worthy concept.

Your build sounds great! Have you had time to test it further? I'm tweaking it and playing it as we speak - I'm just not going to dump Might as mentioned somewhere for the build. I'm also going to package it up with a few other ideas that I've not mentioned here to round it off a bit better. Should be an extremely versatile all-rounder when it's finished, while being on of the best builds for Dominating given the Martial Power/Gyrd Háewanes Sténes combo. One nice thing is that the build makes it incredibly easy to dump Resolve, as if you take both Ring of Changing Heart and Gyrd Háewanes Sténes even with 3 base Resolve you now have 9, so this build shouldn't feel near as much a punch for dumping it on solo compared to other builds.