Jojobobo

I knew that Might was additive, but expected the Rogue damage to be multiplicative, seeing as the tooltips say "+X% damage" not "+X% base damage", and your character sheet lists "damage" for your weapon - so I'm not sure what the devs expected people to think. It's fundamentally misleading. Still, this Rogue's damage should top out at 196-280 damage with the lash and before factoring the DR as I've mentioned elsewhere, and seeing as the recovery is 7% and the Dex is good it should be able to take out one or two of the beefy targets and then drop Shadowing Beyond and escape. This still isn't quite as amazing as other builds, but it is at least fun and pretty cool that the damage can get so high. One thing I would change about the above build is that Finishing Blow should be dropped for Fearsome Strike - this gives four separate Strikes, two of which debuff Fortitude for better Overbearing Prone procs with Weakened (and a third from Sever the Soul should you need it). Deathblows should be more or less a given all the time because of this.

From the other thread I made about this (in General Discussion): So I think when you put it in those terms, they're not so bad. Still they are a bit weedy and hard to keep alive, currently in Act II my build is doing fine with Veteran's Recovery and Shod-in-Faith but I'm not sure how long that will last (I'm going to be able to Quick Switch to Tidefall soon, but apparently the healing of that doesn't scale with any healing modifiers, so it may not help so much). I think in terms of this "bug", they should really have updated the tooltip for all the Rogue damage abilities - if it says "+X% damage", you really expect that to apply to overall damage listed, and not base damage. However, I suppose if it had been multiplicative, it would start to be 400 damage or so, which maybe is over the top. It's hard to say really.

Yeap. Tooltip doesn't really mention that all these bonuses do apply only to base damage, but it's so... Yeah it really should say "base damage", it's thoroughly misleading. Hmmm, I suppose the damage isn't so bad, but it does lead something to be desired (and I'd now consider Backstab and Finishing Blow to be pretty much pointless). Using a Legendary Hours of St. Rumbalt, and a Might 35 (the top of what you can get going solo with a Rogue), then by my calcs for Sneak Attack Deathblows you get: [14-20] * (1 + 0.55 + 0.2 + 0.15 + 0.75 + 0.5 + 1.0) = [14-20] * 4.15 ~= [58-83] damage on normal hit What I was going to go for in terms of attack speed was DAoM (one from Angio's Gambesom, one from Quick Switch Twin Sting), Gauntlets of Swift Action and Durgan-Refinement, using Durgan-Reinforced Angio's Gambeson, for: [1 + 0.05] - ((1.5 * 1.15 * 1.15) - 1) ~= 7% recovery On a crit (without Rabbit Fur Gauntlets, to take Gauntlets of Swift Action), with the aforementioned Annihilation, Durgan-Refinement, Dungeon Delver and the Merciless Hand, the on crit range is (I forgot to factor in the +0.5 base crit damage above): [58-82] * (1.5 + 0.5 + 0.3 + 0.1 + 0.3) = [58-83] * (2.7) ~= 157-224 With a 25% lash, before DR this is: 196-280 And your hit to crit can be made to 65% (Dirty Fighting +10%, Vicious Fighting +10%, Durgan-Refinement +20%, Gravestep +25%). If you use Withering Strike, Fearsome Strike and Sever the Soul, you can heavily debuff Fortitude, so your Prone from Overbearing (Hours of St. Rumbalt) that should be common from the 65% Deathblows should have 5ish seconds duration with 20ish Intellect. So I guess stacking that altogether: - 65% Hit to Crit, (which with Rogue accuracy being what it is, a sizeable there should be a sizeable hit window for that to occur in) - 7% Recovery - Constant Deathblows (more or less) - 196 - 280 crit Deathblows damage range Against even Turisulfus, worse case scenario so long as you can crit Deathblows him, with a Freezing lash and his 972 Endurance it would be: [157 - 34 slash DR] + [39 - (17 * 0.25) freeze DR] = 123 + 35 = 158. 972 / 158 = 7 hits (rounded up from 6.15, given that the you'll need the first hit to try and set up Deathblows). Probably maximum 20 hits, with his trolly Deflection and Fortitude, but you're hitting fast. Not too bad at all. I guess I've just talked myself back into the build not being so bad, I'll stick with it and hopefully it'll stay competitive with some of the more damaging builds (though not out-pacing them as you say).

Right so they're additive with all the existing damage bonuses? I guess that make sense with these results, and there's certainly some egg on my face. Still, that's definitely on the low side. I've mentioned elsewhere that any character using lvl 16 Novice's Suffering, using Sandals of the Forgotten Friar and having a Might in the mid 30s does about 35+ to 40+, and they hit substantially faster than a great sword (with 38 Might on a Barb, it's 40-46). Makes a Rogue seem a little pointless if a Barb can put out near to what they can (-80 damage for a full attack with both fists to a whole group with Carnage, as only the piddling base of fists scales with the Carnage malus) and at an even faster rate (DR non-withstanding, but still it doesn't make too much of a difference with that DPS). As mentioned as well, Wizard spells also fall in this range; Might 30 Torrent of Flames, a spell-binding of the Royal Deadfire Cannoneer Belt, does 64-96 damage at +15 accuracy in an AoE, with so a Wizards with this belt can easily drop 5 of these per rest in a single encounter. Given the huge bonus to accuracy too, they're probably much more likely to crit than a Rogue on everyone in the group. I never had any idea how ridiculously underpowered Rogues with their own supposed niche ("highest single target damage"). This really makes them seem like an entirely pointless class, more or less. I know their damage is better with crits (I think with Rabbit Fur Gloves, Annihilation, Durgan-Refinement, Dungeon Delver and the Merciless Hand crits would do x2.3 damage [1 + 0.1 + 0.5 + 0.3 + 0.1 + 0.3], but that's still only roughly 161-230-ish damage on a single target), but that still seems lacklustre to me.

For me personally I don't think it's too conceptually weird it going back to Strength. If strength is now about being big and muscly, healing a few ways could be seen as knitting muscles back together (amongst other things) in some respects. I don't think the devs would need to explain too much to expand Strength's scope to incorporate healing. Supportive spellcasters will presumably still keep some damage dealing spells, and therefore will likely have some Resolve for the spell damage and hence some Deflection (or you may just want to build them like a tank anyway, in which case still more Resolve and Deflection) so in some ways they have that in their camp, and can probably still muster some effective healing too with maintaining a base 10 level of the healing stat (if Survival bonuses are still a thing, or +healing items). If they are supportive, having both spell damage and healing would mean they can also deal some heavy hits on the side - which seems to compromise the challenge of making someone effective in a support role (because they do loads of damage too, so it's trivial to have them as both heavy offence and support at the same time). While I like the idea of spell-healing belonging to Resolve on paper (and presumably ability healing belonging to Strength), I think practically this has some potential to get a little confusing if Deadfire maintains some healing abilities (Unbending, Savage Defiance) as "spell-bindings" on items. Still, I guess it wouldn't be too hard to rationalise and would be a better solution than the current state of affairs, so possibly it could be better (and feels more appropriate in some ways, if they're partitioning damage they may as well partition healing).

I thought I'd make another thread here, in addition to the thread in the technical issues subforum, to give the issue wide coverage. These abilities no longer stack with one another. If they were to stack additively with one another, you would get: 100% (base damage) + 50% (Sneak Attack) + 100% (Deathblows) = 250% Or... 100% (base damage) + 50% (Sneak Attack) + 100% (Deathblows) + 150% (Backstab) = 400% My damage range on my character after Might is 28-40: This would give me a lowest possible damage before DR for Sneak Attack + Deathblows on a Hit of: 28 x 2.5 = 70 And lowest possible Sneak Attack + Deathblows + Backstab on a Hit: 28 x 4 = 112 However, the values I'm getting are, for Sneak Attack + Deathblows: And Sneak Attack + Deathblows + Backstab on a Hit: This damage is worse that what a Wizard can put out with some of his spells and decent Might, and definitely puts a lie on Rogues doing the "highest single target damage". This is also only using abilities from the base game, that have been present from day 1 of the release - and they're fundamentally bugged. You know I love you Obsidian, but you don't make it easy for me to. I would recommend a hotfix, but of course you could just leave the core conceptual abilities for one of your classes fundamentally bugged, things like that always look good to a fanbase

So I got Deathblows and realised... none of the Rogue abilities (Backstab, Sneak Attack, Deathblows) seem to stack anymore, making the damage a lot more lacklustre than I first thought (see bug thread here). I'm still having enough fun with the build, Deathblows hits in the 56-80 damage range (with an additional 14-20ish lash damage) but it's certainly not the damage dealing king I thought it would be. The damage for this build currently with Backstab, Sneak Attack and Deathblows (if it was all additive) should be 112-160 on a hit alone: 100% (base) + 50% (Sneak Attack) + 100% (Deathblows) + 150% (Backstab) = 400%. Damage range of 28-40 -> 112-160 with a 28-40 damage lash. As I'm not dealing anywhere near what I thought I would be, I'll probably run into trouble late game, but for the time being it's okay. EDIT: I clearly have no idea what I'm talking about. See MaxQuest's post here. Bottom-line I'd say the Barb (doing 80-92 damage across a group from a full attack) is probably a lot better than this Rogue, but I'll probably still persevere with the Rogue anyway given it's still as good a damage that you can get with a Rogue more or less.

So a rather large bug I've noticed is that Rogue damage modifiers no longer seem to stack (see bug thread here) - unless I've calculated something fundamentally wrong, but I don't see how I could have. Is this intentional or not? If it is intentional, it makes Rogues pretty useless compared to other classes, as they're both hard to keep alive and not really doing damage high enough to be worth it. I would say it would cap a Rogue's damage in the 200-250 damage range if you're lucky, and there's already builds on the forum that can put out 200 damage per single round of Retaliation effects - making the Rogue's claim to "highest single target damage" originally stated by the devs very questionable. Further, I'm sure Wizards can do more damage with AoE spells than this with decent Might, or at least very similar. It's also an unusual design decision, as it effectively gives Rogue's a load of mutually exclusive benefits - whereas most players wouldn't expect to be taking abilities and for them to not function with one another. If it's not intentional, it's another fundamental class mechanic that isn't working as intended. As such, I'd say it needs a fix. These abilities have been in the game since its release over 2 and a half years ago, I don't think I need to tell any devs that it looks really bad to leave them in a state where they're not functioning properly - when they're supposed to be conceptually central to the Rogue class. EDIT: I was wrong and I apologise for being misleading. MaxQuest clears things up here. I had no idea Rogues were so terribly in terms of their speciality - damage - which is why I thought there much be a bug.

EDIT: MaxQuest cleared this up here, so it's not a bug. I had no idea Rogues were so disappointingly weak however, as I mention in that thread Wizards do comparable damage to everyone in a group with Torrent of Flames, making reasonable single target damage a little redundant. My damage range 28-40: My Sneak Attack + Deathblows damage: My Sneak Attack + Deathblows + Backstab damage: These damage values before DR is taken into account seem to reflect only the largest multiplier working only (x2 for Deathblows in the first instance, x2.5 for Backstab in the second instance), as they are both below the value expected if all the damage bonuses were additive on a minimal damage roll of 28, and the Backstab example is also below the value of what you would expect if the damage was multiplicative again on a minimal damage roll of 28. Is this how they're supposed to work, i.e. the biggest damage boosted suppressing the others? People seem to report this isn't the case (see topic here), and even if this is intentional I'd say it make Rogues even more niche and unviable compared to pretty much every class. One of the Monk builds on the forum can manage 200 damage in a single round of various stacked Retaliation effects (i.e. by doing nothing), and I'd say Wizard's aren't far off doing similar in an AoE with decent Might using their spells. With how these damage multipliers work a Rogue, 200 damage would be probably around the maximum you could possibly do. Seems to me that this makes the claim of Rogue's doing "the highest single target damage" stated by Sawyer and other devs simply not true.

Possibly, I have no idea.

After doing Farmer's Plight amicably and hiring Korgrak, he's still present in the Dyrford Crossing cave even though he's also at Caed Nua (and in the cave uses lines like he is at Caed Nua). I was hoping he would have gone to Caed Nua so I could get experience for killing the Elder Bears around him sans Korgrak himself, but apparently not. Quite possibly you can kill him at the Crossing and keep him employed at Caed Nua, I didn't bother to test that, but in any case he appears to be in two places at once.

Begs the question: why do we even need a stat that boosts spell/healing damage? Personally I'd say there's always a need for both yes, just not in the same stat necessarily (even if healing didn't go back to Strength, it went to Con for example). As mentioned what I liked about PoE 1 was there were two separate (but not mutually exclusive) approaches to some tankiness - loads of healing or high defences. To have them concentrated in one stat has only served to over-simplify the defensive situation, much like people were complaining that when all damage increases belonged in Might the offensive situation was over-simplified, as by increasing Resolve you now have a one-size fits all approach to defence (compounded even more by offering an additional advantage - in spell damage). I think there does need to be a stat that boosts spell damage too, otherwise it would be too difficult a task to moderate how damaging to make spells (even with some benefits tied to power level).

I don't know, I'd say that Resolve now is more unbalanced as a powerful attribute at least for spellcasters than Might was in PoE 1 as it offers spell damage and healing and Deflection and Will. I'm not sure how moving so many benefits into Resolve has solved the problem of their being an overly powerful attribute.

Thanks! And yes, both of those can be added, very useful spell-bindings to have.

If I'm honest, I can't see the graphical difference to between the two screenshots. Maybe that's just me.

No I never knew that, there's no other area that let you explore a foreground entrance so that comes as a complete surprise (and AFAIK, it can't be explored when you leave it for the first time; I'm pretty sure personally I have tried - leading you to believe that would be the standard for the rest of the game). I'll always thank you personally for the tip, but it's hard not to feel a little (more than a little as a solo gameplayer) ticked off for Obsidian incorporating what I would say is ridiculously obtuse gameplay. I'll sit here chewing on my sour grapes, at experience lost on countless playthroughs.

I can see guns progressing in potential later game entries in the series, wheel-locks, etc. But like 1 or 2 years after the first game, no I doubt it would happen.

You get one rank from the campsite, and a second for telling Aufra and killing her.

I tried a Fighter running with hatchets (+10 Def with no shield) and found it worked well (gave up on it because of the Confident Aim bug at the time, but got into WM Pt I and Act III while thriving on PotD Solo). I would go for that instead personally (all 3 unique hatchets are good, but particularly Captain's Viccolo's Anger which fatigues enemies to lower their accuracy essentially increasing your defence against them - but but, it's late game). Naturally though, Drawn in Spring has Wounding, so it is very nice. Up to you really, Fighters are nice in a party whatever you do with them.

Playing on solo I normally want to be picking up Gift from the Machine, and I kill all the companions too for their gear (which you may as well seeing as you're running solo). As such killing everyone at the campsite does make some sense for such an RP, as if they were going to opportunistically kill companions for their gear they would probably try the same at the campsite if they believed they were strong enough and had already surveyed the area for a strategic point of attack. That said, even when playing a cruel character some would play it a bit more cautious than to slaughter a whole campsite. I guess it'll do it on a case by case basis - is the character going to completely unhinged and malevolent all the time, or are they going to only be cruel when they feel they can get away with it (e.g. telling Aufra she's pathetic) but otherwise present a false front to everyone else? Besides, I'd say killing the campsite is extremely tricky with some classes. I tried with my current Rogue (high Con, Mig, Dex, middling Per) and I just couldn't do it - especially as I didn't have the option for a Second Wind, so in the end I gave up. Plenty of other opportunities to be cruel to people.

To be honest, the Belt of the Royal Deadfire Cannoneer makes the game substantially easier. You can get it quite easily fully unlocked by Act I, and Torrent of Flame obliterates enemies (having a +15 acc bonus), Flame Shield is potent Retaliation (+10 acc bonus), and Firebrand is very strong so long as you have even half good accuracy. The Phantoms at Caed Nua are now a doddle, as if you slap on Rymyrgand's Mantle the Flame Shield will take them out easily enough - even if you are completely stun-locked. Busting out Torrent of Flame on my Rogue right now, I usually get in the range of 80-120 damage on each target. If you pair this with the Adra Beetle's shock AoE, you can readily nuke a tricky group of enemies regardless of your class. I'm not in anyway suggesting the Belt be changed, honestly it just serves to make Act I less tedious and as it quickly becomes less and less powerful in Act II and subsequent Acts (if they were going to nerf it, I would recommend they just set the requirements higher than change the actual benefits it gives). However, it's a little weird that Obsidian would completely nerf the pirtate uniforms let allow the belt to remain untouched, as +9/+9 has made them largely irrelevant now.

Yeah I should have mentioned some of them you can disable with Mech 1 only, but the big experience pay-out traps are the Mech 3 ones. I always find I'm hard pressed not to take a Colonist background from a power-gaming perspective on solo, as I'm nearly always going to want Survival to be my highest skill stat (and then stick points in Mechanics for my first few levels). As such, a fair few of my builds won't have any Mechanics at all in Cilant Lîs, as they don't get any from their class.

Yeah it was mentioned in the patch notes. I feel like the should have probably gone for +12/+12, but oh well. I think the main utility is that it adds Deflection, so on a pure tank build it's still alright as it means you don't have to take a Ring/Bracers of Deflection or the Cape of the Master Mystic to get decent Deflection boost. Another way of looking at it if is you don't necessary have to use a Ring of Defence either, as the slots that you would put an item of Defence in can now be filled with a +4 attribute booster (Mantle of the Excavator, Iron Circle, Gwyn's Band) which offer a +8 boost to a specific defence anyway due to the attribute boost (while naturally offering other benefits). But yeah, they made an item which I think would have seen some wide use hugely niche. Obsidian is crazy.

Might would easily be enough, so that's okay. I guess a lull is to be expected in Act II (normally when I do White March Pt I solo), as it's really the start of WM Pt II when you get a lot of the sweet benefits (Durgan-Refinement, access to Grave Step). What I have noticed is the build gets absolutely shredded by Deflection targeting spells (which won't mean good things for Magran's Faithful or Thaos, though at least with Magran's Faithful Shadowing Beyond means you can spilt it into several fights). Quite possibly I might go to Sanguine Plate or He Carries Many Scars if the build is too squishy even with the heals, end-game it would still be less recovery than I'm currently running (40%-ish with Gauntlets of Swift Action and Durgan-Refinement plus DAoM, compared to my current 70% with just DAoM and Angio's Gambeson) - though I would prefer to stick with the 2 per rest DAoMs. I'll try and see this one through and report my findings, high-risk high-reward strategies I feel need more clarification than other builds that are more sure-fire.

I just did this "challenge" with a chanter, but of course with Reny Daret's ghost one-shotting everyone it wasn't hard whatsoever. Out of curiosity, anyone know how this compares to the exp you would have gained at this point by doing this the normal way? I think it's slightly less, but not by much (you still level up after Cilant Lîs). The main disadvantage is you can't have Heodan tag along with you to disarm all the traps in Cilant Lîs, if you are able to disarm them yourself (Mechanics 3, no easy feat), it would probably be worth slightly more than normal.